Headstall Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 I cannot agree with you here. That sort of thing still really matters. I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that almost everyone reading this got a job (if not their 'career job) from some sort of job referral from a contact. That's because who you know is very important, maybe even more important that what you know. If you are wealthy and influential, you and your children will have more valuable contacts, etc. My point here is that where you land in the socio-economic scale is very important. Quote from Mark Arbour I do agree with you on this...but not when it comes to who you have a relationship with...or not...In the case of Wade and Matt, Matt should not be taking a back seat to Alex based on his lack of blue blood...he is in many ways as well connected as just about anyone when it comes to helping Wade. Wade's standing does not drop significantly if he choose Matt as his partner over Alex and he may well be more affluent with better family connections than the Earl...and as far as having more in common with the Earl because of his blue blood...I would put forth that along with a lot of history, good and bad, Matt and Wade share a passion for hockey, which trumps horse riding in their shared country . The point is, their connection is real and they have always seemed to stimulate each other in every way...they just needed to add some maturity to the overall mix...and all indications were that they were getting close to that.
Mark Arbour Posted June 30, 2014 Author Posted June 30, 2014 I cannot agree with you here. That sort of thing still really matters. I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that almost everyone reading this got a job (if not their 'career job) from some sort of job referral from a contact. That's because who you know is very important, maybe even more important that what you know. If you are wealthy and influential, you and your children will have more valuable contacts, etc. My point here is that where you land in the socio-economic scale is very important. Quote from Mark Arbour I do agree with you on this...but not when it comes to who you have a relationship with...or not...In the case of Wade and Matt, Matt should not be taking a back seat to Alex based on his lack of blue blood...he is in many ways as well connected as just about anyone when it comes to helping Wade. Wade's standing does not drop significantly if he choose Matt as his partner over Alex and he may well be more affluent with better family connections than the Earl...and as far as having more in common with the Earl because of his blue blood...I would put forth that along with a lot of history, good and bad, Matt and Wade share a passion for hockey, which trumps horse riding in their shared country . The point is, their connection is real and they have always seemed to stimulate each other in every way...they just needed to add some maturity to the overall mix...and all indications were that they were getting close to that. I understand what you're saying. I think those things matter, but I don't think that's the key thing at work here. When Wade looks at Alex, he sees Prince Charming. He sees a guy who is so much like him it's probably creepy, and he is probably thinking that Alex is a lot calmer and easier to deal with than Matt (the roller coaster ride).
Headstall Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 I understand what you're saying. I think those things matter, but I don't think that's the key thing at work here. When Wade looks at Alex, he sees Prince Charming. He sees a guy who is so much like him it's probably creepy, and he is probably thinking that Alex is a lot calmer and easier to deal with than Matt (the roller coaster ride). I really don't want to beat a dead horse...but if he sees a guy that is so much like him that it's creepy then it seems like we are back to blue blood again...aren't you saying this is why they are so much alike? If he is seeing himself in Alex, and he sees Alex as Prince charming, then Wade must see himself in that royal vein. As in Alex is good enough for him while Matt is not. And after a week, how or why would he think that Alex is calmer and easier to deal with than Matt? All I am getting is that it is an over the top choice to make this quickly unless it is Alex's social cachet and blue bloodedness that Wade is attracted to and concerned with. And he is selling Matt short again if he doesn't acknowledge that Matt is a different,more mature and thoughtful person after coming out of trauma of 911. If anyone has proved to be a rollercoaster ride (re Brad as an example) it is Wade with his latest actions.Sorry if I seem argumentitive because I don't want to be but I am still so confused by all this...and truthfully, maybe a little traumatized. Cheers Mark...Gary
Timothy M. Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 As I've said over in the Wade and Alex forum (which I think is a better place for this discussion), Wade has chosen the relationship which holds the attraction based on intellectual rather than sexual compatibility. For me this is not surprising, but I wish Wade had learnt from the situation with Brad. He took a deep and meaningful friendship to a sexual level and almost into an actual relationship and it nearly destroyed several family ties. I saw Alex as Wade's potential soul mate as a friend, and I hoped for this rather than a boyfriend. I still think Wade has let himself be confused by the almost instant bonding with Alex and the huge crush he has on him. I hope at some point further on, Wade will make the opposite choice and have Matt as his boyfriend and Alex as his friend. And I think Matt has made this future choice more likely by his restraint and good manners in accepting the situation. But if Alex turns out to be the best life partner for Wade in the long run, I'm fine with this too, and I'll enjoy following Matt's search for a man who can make him happy. As long as Wade and Matt are in a good place with each other, I'll accept your choices for them, Mark. 2
Mark Arbour Posted June 30, 2014 Author Posted June 30, 2014 As I've said over in the Wade and Alex forum (which I think is a better place for this discussion), Wade has chosen the relationship which holds the attraction based on intellectual rather than sexual compatibility. For me this is not surprising, but I wish Wade had learnt from the situation with Brad. He took a deep and meaningful friendship to a sexual level and almost into an actual relationship and it nearly destroyed several family ties. I saw Alex as Wade's potential soul mate as a friend, and I hoped for this rather than a boyfriend. I still think Wade has let himself be confused by the almost instant bonding with Alex and the huge crush he has on him. I hope at some point further on, Wade will make the opposite choice and have Matt as his boyfriend and Alex as his friend. And I think Matt has made this future choice more likely by his restraint and good manners in accepting the situation. But if Alex turns out to be the best life partner for Wade in the long run, I'm fine with this too, and I'll enjoy following Matt's search for a man who can make him happy. As long as Wade and Matt are in a good place with each other, I'll accept your choices for them, Mark. Good points! FYI, this forum is just fine for this discussion as well. I really can't envision Matt and Wade not being at an at least benign level with each other: they don't have the luxury of having a big, ugly, break-up feud that goes on indefinitely. The stuff they went through after 9-11 was probably tolerated by other family members because it was all so ugly and rough, with the losses, but beyond that, it would be tough. Those two are both too integrated into the overall family structure, and they have a son together, whether Matt wants to admit it or not.
Kitt Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 I think there is something that is being overlooked. Matt and Wade may have been together for a long while, and seem much more mature, but are actually still in their very early 20's. To "act out of character" at 22 does not mean the same as to do so at 42 or 52 yrs old. One cannot broadcast a 50 something experience level onto the young. I can see where Wades double standard- that he is allowed to get jealous over Cam but Matt was not over Alex- would strike some people as annoying, myself included. One does, however have to take into consideration how many times Wade was expected to smile and accept Matt running off to play with a new playmate over their four years at Stanford. His initial resentment of the jealousy may very well have stemmed from that - why couldn't/shouldn't he run off and play with his new friend? He is, after all, no longer a couple with Matt, and Matt did just that while they were "committed to each other". Could it be that Matt has a bit of a double standard here too? Not to say I approve of the way Wade handled things. It could have been done in a much more sensitive manner. I am less concerned about this more substantial split up than I am over how far things have gone, and at light speed, with Alex. From "Pleased to meet you " to "move in with me and lets get rid of our other interests" in less than a week strikes me as impulsive beyond anything we have seen from any CAP family member. The binding factors are incidental. I don't think it would matter if they were both labeled "prince of the realm" or if they were both trailer trash would make any difference. Impulsiveness is ok to a point, but this has traveled well beyond that. 3
Henson Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 I am less concerned about this more substantial split up than I am over how far things have gone, and at light speed, with Alex. From "Pleased to meet you " to "move in with me and lets get rid of our other interests" in less than a week strikes me as impulsive beyond anything we have seen from any CAP family member. The binding factors are incidental. I don't think it would matter if they were both labeled "prince of the realm" or if they were both trailer trash would make any difference. Impulsiveness is ok to a point, but this has traveled well beyond that. You have hit on what my main concern was, but have expressed it much better. This doesn't just go to protecting Wade's heart - it goes to protecting his home, his fortune, and his family. He has to be more responsible as a Danfield, father,and gazillionaire, and we've never seen him not be cognizant of that. I don't want Alex to be a con, and I honestly don't think he is. I like the character. I think this whole situation is a convenient way to bring the families together, give Matt a heavy blow to help him on his road to greater maturity, and spice up a later story in Boston. But it's just so... sudden and weird, considering who it is in the middle of it. This is something a Schluter would do, not Wade. It's weird. It's rude. It's un-classy. It's irresponsible. And yes, I've done some pretty irresponsible and self-centered things myself in the midst of a crush, but I'm not this character and I sure as hell ain't a gazillionaire with a kid and a family legacy (which is taken VERY seriously) to protect.
Mark Arbour Posted July 1, 2014 Author Posted July 1, 2014 I think that Wade's impulsiveness has been extreme in this situation. I guess the issue that I have is with the concept that this cannot happen to Wade, that he would never do something so irresponsible and probably cruel. Based on what? People like Wade, who are wound up pretty tight, can snap every once in a while. In this case, Wade encountered a pretty potent cocktail. Regardless of how this turns out with Alex, I can see Wade spending a lot of time with David Sizemore, beating the shit out of himself for being this impulsive, and for letting his emotions completely override his logic.
mmike1969 Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Except people are forgetting something important: Love has absolutely positively nothing to do with logic or reason. Even the perception of "love" we can safely toss out the rule book just because... 1
Kitt Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 . I guess the issue that I have is with the concept that this cannot happen to Wade, that he would never do something so irresponsible and probably cruel. I didn't mean it to read that I didn't think he would never behave in this manner, just that it being such a departure from his normal behavior that it was bound to cause issues for him, even if everything turns up roses for all three of them! Except people are forgetting something important: Love has absolutely positively nothing to do with logic or reason. Even the perception of "love" we can safely toss out the rule book just because... Exactly, and when that happens all sorts of stuff can potentially hit the air circulation device! 2
Henson Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) The question isn't whether he CAN do something incredibly irresponsible because of a crush (even if it turns out ok in the end). Of course he's allowed to be human. The concern was whether that is characteristic of him (it's clearly not), and the question is what psychic price he's going to pay when he himself realizes how foolish and, more importantly, rude he was (even if, as I said before, it turns out well). When the crush ends, even if it turns into a mature relationship, will he let himself get away with this impulsive behavior, or will it trouble him? Since 9-11, we've watched him devolve rather than evolve. Edited July 1, 2014 by Henson 1
Headstall Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 All Mark has to do is have it all work out for Wade and Alex and this will all SEEM justified...and the goal of integrating the two epic series will be achieved. But at what cost? I think that is the bottom line and where we fans will all differ. For some there will be no cost...some will get over Wade's actions and the situation quickly...while others will be affected to an overwhelming degree. I have already posted that Flux has changed for me...I am only one of Mark's fans but I am still a fan who has always had great faith in him...and I will continue to try to maintain that faith even if I have to distance myself because I conclude that I can't handle, at this point, what is happening. I do take great solace that I am not the only fan who feels that this is not just a story...but is an integral part of our lives...and it is a supreme credit to Mark that these characters mean so much to us and that we sometimes live and die with them. I have no doubt that our esteemed author is aware of this and takes it seriously...yet acknowledge that he can't please all of us passionate fans. I, of course. pray that things work out the way I would like...but there are others who wish for or would be comfortable with another outcome. We are all in Mark's capable hands...just sayin... 1
Headstall Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Sorry...to add to my post...what i really wanted to say was that while it feels like MY story...I realize that is not. It is Mark's...and while I have trouble understanding some things that have or are happening...I must remind myself to keep that in mind at all times...no matter how frustrated or upset I may get...great literature has always had intense power over me, and in the case of serialized literature it seems like that intensity is multiplied to an incredible degree so that when it is uncomfortable, it can become almost unbearable. I know...rambling now....cheers all 3
John Prz Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 When the crush ends, even if it turns into a mature relationship, will he let himself get away with this impulsive behavior, or will it trouble him? Since 9-11, we've watched him devolve rather than evolve. I do not agree with you, but seeing how easily this story can change and go somewhere you would have never think about, you could be right. And I think we all know what you mean when you say "that these characters mean so much to us and that we sometimes live and die with them" (I still feel bad thinking about that discussion between Matt and Cody in Bloodlines) But that's not what i want to talk about. Wade... i think he's searching for his place. They agreed to be friends with benefits, they never said "we have to be togheter again", Matt got his heart broken when Wade destroyed that 80% of chance he had give him, but he knew this could happen he just hoped it wouldn't. But he's also showing how much he matured and, as i personally think, loves Wade unconditionally. But knowing how he is and how he's evolving I would be sorry, a lot, for him if someone will take advantage of this altruist trait he developed. Wade didn't do anyting wrong, Matt and he had an agreement and when he found someone he believe and fuck he's giving up Matt for Alex, he has to be some freaking huge meanings for Wade to risk Matt.
davewri Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Let's all keep in mind that Alex is a link to the Bridgemont family. I don't think Mark will sacrifice George Granger's legacy by allowing Alex to be anything other than a gentleman.
Headstall Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Let's all keep in mind that Alex is a link to the Bridgemont family. I don't think Mark will sacrifice George Granger's legacy by allowing Alex to be anything other than a gentleman. It's my guess that you have pretty much nailed it. Without being presumptuous, because you never know for sure what Mark is thinking, it would appear that this is the main motivation for what is happening now.....maybe...
Headstall Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 I do not agree with you, but seeing how easily this story can change and go somewhere you would have never think about, you could be right. And I think we all know what you mean when you say "that these characters mean so much to us and that we sometimes live and die with them" (I still feel bad thinking about that discussion between Matt and Cody in Bloodlines) But that's not what i want to talk about. Wade... i think he's searching for his place. They agreed to be friends with benefits, they never said "we have to be togheter again", Matt got his heart broken when Wade destroyed that 80% of chance he had give him, but he knew this could happen he just hoped it wouldn't. But he's also showing how much he matured and, as i personally think, loves Wade unconditionally. But knowing how he is and how he's evolving I would be sorry, a lot, for him if someone will take advantage of this altruist trait he developed. Wade didn't do anyting wrong, Matt and he had an agreement and when he found someone he believe and fuck he's giving up Matt for Alex, he has to be some freaking huge meanings for Wade to risk Matt. Something that has ocurred after reading your post... It almost could be construed that Wade is acting on the past situation as opposed to the present one...It is hard to explain but it seems like he could be acting the way he thinks he should...he convinced himself that he had to move away from Matt to be happy...and yet he and Matt started rebuilding their relationship(slowly and rather successfully) so either he hasn't been paying attention to the drastic change in their dynamic, or he did and it caused him to panic and in essence..flip out to a degree. This is pure speculation and me thinking out loud, but there is no denying the closeness they had redeveloped and the conversations they were having about the future and their love for each other. It would be easier for Wade to stick to his intention to distance himself if it wasn't so obvious that this new more considerate and mature Matt (who turns Wade on sexually more than any one else can) is fast becoming the "perfect guy" for Wade. Could this have slowly ignited feelings of panic in Wade so that instead of facing his feelings and recognizing that his conviction should maybe be re-evalued he latched impulsively on to this new interesting guy to escape some possibly overwhelming confusion?? IF(and I know this is a big if ) this is the explanation for what is going on, I would hope he figures it out before it is too late. If there is some merit to this, I wonder if the tipping point that would start the panic in Wade,was when Matt put Wade's happiness over his own in the "sleeping with Brad" situation. And the jealousy that Wade felt over Cam may have really freaked Wade out...agreeing to go to Europe with Matt is a big tell for how close they were getting...so the time between trips would be the perfect time for Wade's fear to build...so the first thing he does upon arriving in Europe is develop this shockingly huge crush on Alex and latch on for all his worth...acting totally unexpectedly to most of us(or at least some of us). Maybe this is a reach but it would sure explain what I have so far found extremely confusing.You just never know what Mr. Arbour has up his sleeve. 2
mmike1969 Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 You just never know what Mr. Arbour has up his sleeve. Yeah! He just might be the next George RR Martin and start killing off our favorite characters that we like and grow fond of. Oh wait... 3
Mark Arbour Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 Something that has ocurred after reading your post... It almost could be construed that Wade is acting on the past situation as opposed to the present one...It is hard to explain but it seems like he could be acting the way he thinks he should...he convinced himself that he had to move away from Matt to be happy...and yet he and Matt started rebuilding their relationship(slowly and rather successfully) so either he hasn't been paying attention to the drastic change in their dynamic, or he did and it caused him to panic and in essence..flip out to a degree. This is pure speculation and me thinking out loud, but there is no denying the closeness they had redeveloped and the conversations they were having about the future and their love for each other. It would be easier for Wade to stick to his intention to distance himself if it wasn't so obvious that this new more considerate and mature Matt (who turns Wade on sexually more than any one else can) is fast becoming the "perfect guy" for Wade. Could this have slowly ignited feelings of panic in Wade so that instead of facing his feelings and recognizing that his conviction should maybe be re-evalued he latched impulsively on to this new interesting guy to escape some possibly overwhelming confusion?? IF(and I know this is a big if ) this is the explanation for what is going on, I would hope he figures it out before it is too late. If there is some merit to this, I wonder if the tipping point that would start the panic in Wade,was when Matt put Wade's happiness over his own in the "sleeping with Brad" situation. And the jealousy that Wade felt over Cam may have really freaked Wade out...agreeing to go to Europe with Matt is a big tell for how close they were getting...so the time between trips would be the perfect time for Wade's fear to build...so the first thing he does upon arriving in Europe is develop this shockingly huge crush on Alex and latch on for all his worth...acting totally unexpectedly to most of us(or at least some of us). Maybe this is a reach but it would sure explain what I have so far found extremely confusing.You just never know what Mr. Arbour has up his sleeve. Your suggesting that Alex is especially attractive to Wade because he gives Wade a tool to push Matt away, just when they're becoming dangerously close. That idea has merit.
John Prz Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 If we only could hear Wade POV about this... that would explain a lot, but we'll have to wait for the next book to happen. Anyway Headstall after that long post I got what you meant. 1
Mark Arbour Posted July 2, 2014 Author Posted July 2, 2014 If we only could hear Wade POV about this... that would explain a lot, but we'll have to wait for the next book to happen. Anyway Headstall after that long post I got what you meant. Or for chapter 38. :-) 1
John Prz Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Fuck... , my good mood is gone now... Anyway Mark great chapter, just... you got one character I'm fond of.
davewri Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Oh no! I should not read these chapters in the early morning before going to work. Now I will worry all day about all of the people I have grown to know. Thanks a lot Mark. We asked for drama..........
mmike1969 Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Cody you slut whore. I wish I could say I feel sorry for ya but I can't. You brought this upon yourself and I am guessing you will STILL have unprotected sex with your partners. Ever since Brian, your relationships have been total disasters because of your inability to keep it in your pants. Brian: dead Kevin: soon to be dead Brad, Wade, Alex, Matt: OMFG. What the hell is wrong with you people? Got all this $$$/£££ and y'all can't spring for a condom at the 7-11???
Headstall Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Damn, Damn, Damn I just read the last chapter of Flux and stupidly allowed my hopes for Wade and Matt to resurface...I reread the chapter and have since felt those hopes dwindle to nothing. I felt good for all of 30 minutes and now that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach is back. The true reality of the situation has hit me again...I really need to move on...it's just a book..it's just a book..it's just...
Recommended Posts