[dkstories] Doing It Right - Chapter 9

[old bob]

Hey guys. Just wanna alert you to a story I just read. It's called The Purge and it's set in an America after the neo-cons and Bible-thumpers took control. Methinks it's a good story It's in http://josephmen.com/

 

Cheers!

 

Rad

 

Hey Rad

thanks for the alert.

nice story

chapter 5 is interesting enough. Expect more chapters asap.

 

If you think of countries like Ireland and Poland (first example in my mind) I don't think they're so exempt of religious influences. Not to mention Greece where the mention of the religion was supressed of the identity card ONLY in 2001.

 

I think that the hum idea of "communities" is much more stronger in USA because its population comes from such different places. And religion is something that bonds people strongly. It's not always a bad thing either. Sometimes it's more about solidarity than brainwashing because all churches are not House of Bigotry and Intolerance.

 

Hey Xantra

give me an example of an american church which is really free of Bigotry .....

[dkstories]

Hey Rad

thanks for the alert.

nice story

chapter 5 is interesting enough. Expect more chapters asap.

Hey Xantra

give me an example of an american church which is really free of Bigotry .....

 

 

A better question would be to ask for a church anywhere in the world that is not bigoted. There is some bigotry necessary in any institution which must separate the world between 'believers' and 'non-believers'. The real question is how much does each church depend on bigotry to keep its membership high and its collection plates full.

 

It's a pity really, that we are in the situation we are in today. People in general have been wanting some absolute answers for the last two decades, and liberalism isn't a source of absolutes. Fundamentalism IS a source of absolutes, and they can with handy-dandy guides that tell you exactly what to do, exactly what to think, who to like, and who to hate. All the individual has to do is follow those guides and they don't have to worry about thinking, analyzing, or trying to actually DO something to make the world a better place.

 

You want to know how I think things have gotten so bad to the point where they are now, and continuing to get worse? The answer is simple, really: people are lazy.

[old bob]

A better question would be to ask for a church anywhere in the world that is not bigoted. There is some bigotry necessary in any institution which must separate the world between 'believers' and 'non-believers'. The real question is how much does each church depend on bigotry to keep its membership high and its collection plates full.

 

It's a pity really, that we are in the situation we are in today. People in general have been wanting some absolute answers for the last two decades, and liberalism isn't a source of absolutes. Fundamentalism IS a source of absolutes, and they can with handy-dandy guides that tell you exactly what to do, exactly what to think, who to like, and who to hate. All the individual has to do is follow those guides and they don't have to worry about thinking, analyzing, or trying to actually DO something to make the world a better place.

 

You want to know how I think things have gotten so bad to the point where they are now, and continuing to get worse? The answer is simple, really: people are lazy.

 

I dont agree. In my time, the young people were as lazy as now, but there were spiritual leaders able to motivate the youngs . Perhaps the names of David Spangler and the Findhorn Community, Esalen in Big Sur, Marilyn Ferguson and the Aquarian Conspiracy, and Peace and Love in Woodstock say something to you. There was no bigotry but real friendship for all . What we need is spiritual leadership like Martin Luther King (just for instance !) . Dont you think Internet could be a power to organise a "liberal revival ", like Davey and Brian try to do it in your stories ?

Edited April 26, 2006 by old bob

[Rad]

A better question would be to ask for a church anywhere in the world that is not bigoted. There is some bigotry necessary in any institution which must separate the world between 'believers' and 'non-believers'. The real question is how much does each church depend on bigotry to keep its membership high and its collection plates full.

 

It's a pity really, that we are in the situation we are in today. People in general have been wanting some absolute answers for the last two decades, and liberalism isn't a source of absolutes. Fundamentalism IS a source of absolutes, and they can with handy-dandy guides that tell you exactly what to do, exactly what to think, who to like, and who to hate. All the individual has to do is follow those guides and they don't have to worry about thinking, analyzing, or trying to actually DO something to make the world a better place.

 

You want to know how I think things have gotten so bad to the point where they are now, and continuing to get worse? The answer is simple, really: people are lazy.

 

Fundamentalism and fanaticism. Sources of absolutes. Or are the two of them the same? If we look back in history, these two things are always the harbinger of decline. In all fronts. Science, technology and society.

 

Take a look at Ottoman Empire. When they're dynamic, they're all-conquering. THen they became more and more relaxed. Sure of their military might and economic prowess. They became more and more dogmatic and less dynamic. Do you know that printing press wasn't allowed until 1800's With dogmatism, fanaticism and fundamentalism, come corruption. Since nobody dare to ask.

 

Well, that's my two cent.

 

Cheers!

 

Rad

[Ibsu]

Full disclosure: I am a former evangelical/pentacostal Christian, and did just that trying to fool myself into being straight. (I'm better now. )

 

 

A better question would be to ask for a church anywhere in the world that is not bigoted. There is some bigotry necessary in any institution which must separate the world between 'believers' and 'non-believers'. The real question is how much does each church depend on bigotry to keep its membership high and its collection plates full.

 

I guess I see it differently. Are they tribalistic? Sure! But we ALL are! Every single one of us, whether we like it or not, separate the world into "us" and "them." None of us would put KKK members in our "us" group, for example. Does that make us bigots against racists?

 

Maybe.

 

That said, the Unitarian-universalists would be a church that does not separate the world into believers and non-believers. Further, the United Church of Christ, as well as being affirming are also very lax in their "heaven/hell" theology.

 

But these places are tribalistic because humans are tribalistic - they're doing nothing less than human nature. And for the most part, I think it's a subconscious measure.

 

It's a pity really, that we are in the situation we are in today. People in general have been wanting some absolute answers for the last two decades, and liberalism isn't a source of absolutes. Fundamentalism IS a source of absolutes, and they can with handy-dandy guides that tell you exactly what to do, exactly what to think, who to like, and who to hate. All the individual has to do is follow those guides and they don't have to worry about thinking, analyzing, or trying to actually DO something to make the world a better place.

 

But Evangelicalism and Fundamentalism is so appealing not because they don't have to think, but because it's a place to belong. It's not that they don't think, but it's that they try to advance along the tribalistic thought. Very few of us have thought through our personal philosophies from the ground up, myself included. To the extent I have, it's incredibly emotionally taxing and isolating.

 

But these people do think about ways to make the world a better place. It's just that their thoughts on how to make it a better place and ours are completely different. They see a world where individual churches join up as the center of society, responsible for caring for the poor and those who have come on hard times. Many larger churches have a Harvest Center or similar that distribute food to the community. One Catholic church I went to as a youth housed homeless men in the winter. The Salvation Army is both a church and a charity.

 

That's the more devious piece of neo-conservativism... It's not that they want no safety net -- it's that they want Christianity to be the safety net. To them, government cannot do the job effectively because it does not submit to Christian principles and further, hinders Christian charities by making them less needed.

 

If Christians don't center as the core charity, a fundamental piece of their evangelism is cut off.

 

You want to know how I think things have gotten so bad to the point where they are now, and continuing to get worse? The answer is simple, really: people are lazy.

 

In this, we agree.

 

My thinking above is heavily influenced by Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer." The book rocked my world shortly after deconverting. I don't agree with all of it, but what book can we? *laughs*

[C James]

Has anyone heard any rumors as to when Ch. 10 might appear? I know (from his blog posts) that DK is exceedingly busy these days, but as I recall he was several chapters ahead, so there may yet be hope.

Edited April 29, 2006 by C James

[old bob]

If I resume the different fights of Davey against the bigots, it seems that his father is this time (DIR) on his side, even if the bigots (Seans father) are still fighting. Reading also the blogs of our gay friends, the antigay positions of the "revival" churches today are in reality much stronger and much aggressiver., and we have to fear them.

Bigotry or not, I still dont understand the power today of the churches in the States. I followed yesterday on a french TV channel scenes on the streets of different towns in the southern states of priests organizing public prayers asking God to reduce the prices of gas

[C James]

If I resume the different fights of Davey against the bigots, it seems that his father is this time (DIR) on his side, even if the bigots (Seans father) are still fighting. Reading also the blogs of our gay friends, the antigay positions of the "revival" churches today are in reality much stronger and much aggressiver., and we have to fear them.

Bigotry or not, I still dont understand the power today of the churches in the States. I followed yesterday on a french TV channel scenes on the streets of different towns in the southern states of priests organizing public prayers asking God to reduce the prices of gas

[old bob]

What? Preists (or other religious leaders) leading pray-ins to reduce gasoline prices?!?!!? I haven't seen that, but I can't say it would be any surprise to me.

 

If you would like to see an example of this, may I suggest trying a hobby of mine: recreational fundie baiting.

 

BTW, Bob, in the US, religious practice and fanaticism varies by area. In many areas, it's nowhere near as bad as your TV probably claims. However, in parts of the deep South and West, it's downright scary.

 

about the pray-ins : if you are interested, you could see it on the Web. I could give you the site adress.

about the fundie baiting, I made several times the experience NOT to discuss with fundies. You cannt modify a faith with logical arguments, even by using the Bible for that .

Thanks for the answer. You are right about the deep South. The priests were afroamerican !

[Rigel]

I followed yesterday on a french TV channel scenes on the streets of different towns in the southern states of priests organizing public prayers asking God to reduce the prices of gas

[old bob]

Too bad we can't devise a vehicle that runs on hot air. Then we could really use the power of the priesthood Old Bob refers to. :-)

 

Hey. It seems that more people are interested. Here the adress on the web(swissfrench TV) :

http://www.tsr.ch/tsr/index.html

The title (unfortunately in french9 : "USA : une pri

Edited April 30, 2006 by old bob

[C James]

about the pray-ins : if you are interested, you could see it on the Web. I could give you the site adress.

about the fundie baiting, I made several times the experience NOT to discuss with fundies. You cannt modify a faith with logical arguments, even by using the Bible for that .

Thanks for the answer. You are right about the deep South. The priests were afroamerican !

 

I don't usually bait them unless they start preaching at me. However, once they do, I consider that licence to have some fun...

 

Too bad we can't devise a vehicle that runs on hot air. Then we could really use the power of the priesthood Old Bob refers to. :-)

 

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That indeed would be an ideal energy source.. Plus, if it worked, congress could actually solve the energy crisis, by becoming our #1 source of power...