[LittleBuddhaTW] SOOTB 22

[kalkay]

Thank you for another excellent chapter David.

I find your characters perfectly credible and reacting as best as they are able to.

As far as Connor is concerned, as he says himself, he has not much experience with relationships and in the circonstances I think he does pretty well.

Pascal

[VTicarus]

:nuke:

With this chapter, especially, the posts seem to relate more to ourselves than to the story line. The writing has left us so much space for our own interpretations and expectations

[LittleBuddhaTW]

Buddha is in San Francisco now, paying out the a** to get online at the airport ... but I have a loooong lay-over. Anyway, I'm enjoying all the comments so far, and should have more to say once I get "home" and have a couple days to sleep off this horrid jet lag that I'm already feeling!

 

Ooooh ... and Shadow (my black cat) escaped from his cage on the plane and was wandering all around the cargohold between Nagoya, Japan and San Francisco!!!! Fortunately, one of the grounds crewman caught him. NAUGHTY, NAUGHTY CAT! grrr....

 

*Hugz*

 

Buddha

[C James]

Buddha is in San Francisco now, paying out the a** to get online at the airport ... but I have a loooong lay-over. Anyway, I'm enjoying all the comments so far, and should have more to say once I get "home" and have a couple days to sleep off this horrid jet lag that I'm already feeling!

 

Hello, LBSF! (Little Buddha San Francisco).

I hope the rest of your journey goes ok..

 

Ooooh ... and Shadow (my black cat) escape from his cage on the plane and was wondering all around the cargohold between Nagoya, Japan and San Francisco!!!! Fortunately, ond of the grounds crewman caught hiim in SF. NAUGHTY, NAUGHTY CAT! grrr....

 

You (and your cat) are very lucky. It's sadly not uncommon for them to escape during transit, but often they don't get caught. I hope Shadows (and your other two cots) stays safely in his cage from here on out!

Safe Journey, LB!

[LittleBuddhaTW]

I agree that VTicarus' comments are quite profound, and in quite a few ways, are one of the things that I have not only noticed in the posting of each chapter, but have, in a way, been "pushing" for ... it's very interesting to see how people react so differently to the same event. It is more telling about the reader than it is the story!

 

As for the kicking Maggie in the "vag" comment ... I think there are many of us (myself included) who have thought of doing even nastier and cruder things to people. But, like Connor, we know the difference between a thought that springs out of anger, and actually acting out on it. It was just a thought, one that probably no one else would ever know about, except that we, as readers, are privy to his innermost thoughts ... something that just popped into his mind in a moment of anger and frustration. Not to mention, he's still a sixteen-year-old, angsty, moody teenager. Give the poor kid a break. Obviously, when it comes to Maggie (and "mothers" in general) there are still some issues for Connor to resolve. I think one of the big things in this chapter (I know, everyone seems to be focusing in Connor and Ben! lol) is to show that while Connor has indeed made a lot of progress, he's still got a ways to go. Will he get over some of these unresolve issues by the end of the story?

 

Anyway, that's just my take on it, as a reader, not the author.

 

*Hugz*

 

Buddha

[VTicarus]

 

Feelin' awful exposed out here!

I kinda thought some other people might write and say what the story was bringing up for them...

 

Heh heh........

 

Hello? Is this thing on?????

[C James]

 

Feelin' awful exposed out here!

I kinda thought some other people might write and say what the story was bringing up for them...

 

Heh heh........

 

Hello? Is this thing on?????

 

Yes!

 

Oh, you probably wanted a longer answer?

 

Ok, in my case, there are several things in the story that really hit home on a personal level. Dealing with people who are having emotional withdrawal and denial is definitely one of them. Medical issues are another.

Connor's fight with Trent Lomax bought back some good memories for me, and his attack in Ch 11 bought back some bad ones.

 

It's definitely been a roller-coaster!! I know I keep repeating myself about this, but this story has incredible depth.

 

Further, one very unique thing about this story (IMHO) is that, just like real life, not everyting is significant or clear-cut. For example, let's look at LB's post below:

As for the kicking Maggie in the "vag" comment ... I think there are many of us (myself included) who have thought of doing even nastier and cruder things to people. But, like Connor, we know the difference between a thought that springs out of anger, and actually acting out on it. It was just a thought, one that probably no one else would ever know about, except that we, as readers, are privy to his innermost thoughts ... something that just popped into his mind in a moment of anger and frustration. Not to mention, he's still a sixteen-year-old, angsty, moody teenager. Give the poor kid a break. Obviously, when it comes to Maggie (and "mothers" in general) there are still some issues for Connor to resolve. I think one of the big things in this chapter (I know, everyone seems to be focusing in Connor and Ben! lol) is to show that while Connor has indeed made a lot of progress, he's still got a ways to go. Will he get over some of these unresolve issues by the end of the story?

 

OK, like many things in the story, it appears that Connor's reaction to Maggie was not particularly significant. There does seem to be a long-running undercurrent of Connor having difficulty relating to female parental figures, but given his history, that's hardly surprising.

 

What I'm trying (and doing badly) to get at here is that in a great many stories, everything is clear-cut, and if a character acts in a certain way it's highly significant. In SOOTB, though, there are many instances where things are not cut-and-dried, which IMHO makes it far more "real", because life is like that.

 

A good example would be Mikey: we still don't know exactly what happened, which is just what would happen in real life in most cases.

Edited July 8, 2006 by C James

[VTicarus]

I feel like I should start a split personalty so I can not seem to monopolize things.

 

I like what you wrote. Like always, it made me think again. Do you think we have met the real Connor yet?

 

I don't think we have, and expect that when we do, BOY will it be an entrance. (or not) He lets boys he doesn't live kiss him. He shies from attention feeling unworthy, but accepts it wherever he can get it. Cody needs someone - I will fill in. Toby needs someone - I will fill in. Ben needs a test person - I will fill in.

 

OK - he can take actions he believes will keep others from feeling as alone, confused and unloved as he does. But who is he if we erase all the stigmata?

 

LB asks, in his post "Will he get over some of these unresolve issues by the end of the story?" Well, if the author doesn't know... (or ain't telling!) Personally, I don't think he - or anyone - can solve all their issues. But, they can prioritize and make decisions that will let them be happy along the way.

 

Shutting up now.

Edited July 8, 2006 by VTicarus

[LittleBuddhaTW]

I think we still need replies from Joey (JSmith), and, of course, we're waiting on Kitty's more in-depth reply ... of course, there are also the hordes of lurkers out there ...

 

C'mon guys, let's make this the longest chapter thread yet (of course, it has to be on topic ... no just posting nonsense! ) And, if y'all do that, I promise Ch. 23 will be really good ... hehe

 

*Hugz*

 

Buddha

[NickolasJames8]

I wonder what Maggie thinks about both of her soms being gay. I mean, does she wonder about her husband and if he was maybe secretly gay???? Or if she caused it with her excessive drinking and the acid she dropped both times when she was pregnant. It's possible that she still carries some of the guilt around, not willing to except the fact that it's just how they were born.

Also, what if we find out that Ryan has been seeing Dominic on the side?? Or even worse, what if he's been dipping with Cody and the two of them have kept it a big secret??? Maybe not, but we don't know all of the details yet. We still haven't learned all of the details of the tragic lion cage accident that took Cody's father from Tatyanna when they were campaigning across the southern regions of Europe for increased submarine safety.

[Conner]

Way to go, Buddha-dude! Telling us freaks not to post nonsense is akin to handing a stink bomb to a high school lad and telling him not to throw it into the teachers' lounge.

 

Nick, save that crazy creativity for your stories!

 

Yes, Connor seems to have a saviour complex going, doesn't he? People who do that are usually seeking their own redemption, which they never really achieve. Because of his history and personality, Connor feels defective somehow and no matter how much good he does, he can't overcome that.

 

Kitty, some of your wisdom, please.

 

Hugs,

Conner

[Boxerdude]

You know what, this has been the most honest and open chapter that LBTW has written. I myself have had a little personal difficulty dealing with it but it is not LBTW's fault. He has written a great story that I respect and enjoy. I have my own personal difficulties with it, but it is not LB's fault. He has written one of the best stories I have ever read.

 

Now. I will defend Connor until the end, and I will defend Ryan until the end. I do not like how they are treating each other but someone who has been in a relationship for over 17 years, I have no place to judge them. I have been where the are and we have worked it through. You can not imagine what 17 years will bring into your life. These two guys, they are just beginning. They are learning what real love means. It is hard and it is tough, if you don't have the strength for it don't get evolved. There are long term relationships and short term relationships. I personally think that LB is working on a long term relationship with Ryan and Connor. I could talk to you endlessly on hours about long term relationships, but LB is building one that will be stronger than most of us could understand. I for one am not one of those people. I know what it takes to make a long term relationship last. It is not easy and it is not safe. I applauded LB for making this real, otherwise the last 17 years I spent was a mockery!

 

This is more about what they feel about each other and how they deal with it than we want to admit. There is no blame to place but a lot of compassion that needs to be seen and understood. LB is not in the market of making a story that we would hate, he wants us to understand. And for that, I give him all of my thanks. Because, I don't thing anyone can understand what it takes to make a relationship last more than a year let alone 17. LB has set the ground work. Figure it out and understand it. It speaks deeply to me and I can relate. Love is deeper than the deepest Ocean!

 

Let

[Wynter]

Personally, I always liked Toby better but I dont see it happening. I was actually expecting/hoping for a break up. Now theres room for someone new; Cody, Tody, Ben??? I'd prefer any of these to Ryan. He just doesent seem as realsitic or full as the other characters. Where the others have showed logical progression Ryan strikes me as inconsistent and i dont think it can be brushed off as just ADD.

 

This post probably sounds a little negative but i really am enjoying the story

 

That'd just be weird. The Connor and Toby relationship that is. They're more like siblings or really close friends at this point.

 

//shadows

 

This sounds a lot like the Luke and Rory (DD) argument. I think it will pan out the same.

 

Wynter

[annushka]

And to think that I was complaining that Ryan was too perfect at one point.... I certainly can't say that anymore!

I wasn't expecting their breakup to happen like that, on a sudden spur of the moment for Ryan, I was expecting a fight or something... But the breakup in itself could be expected.

 

I had thought that the central pairing was Connor and Ryan, and I guess I am still hanging onto that, I mean, they have been central to the story untill now... So I am not expecting for their story to end like that and for connor to simply move on with whomever. Maybe I'm very wrong, it's just the way I feel, that it is a story about them as couple, growing from a teenager to an adult relationship.

But we'll see, maybe I'm in for a huge surprise....

 

I really like your writing style, that's what makes a huge difference from so-so stories. The storyline is nice of course, but it's the way you describe your characters, their psychologie, their surroundings, the way they interact, and don't simply have them have them talk. It's really nice to read a story that doesn't rely too heavily on dialogues but on narrative parts and descriptions as well! It makes it a much more intense experience while reading a story.

So I guess that my point was: even if I'm wrong and Ryan and Connor part way "forever", I know I'll still enjoy reading the next chapters because of the way you'll write whatever will happen

 

I hope that you'll enjoy your return "home", and that it will give you plenty of inspiration too...

[ex52tech]

I'm not surprised that Ryan broke up with Connor.

 

He doesn't want to let himself get hurt, so he's pulling away from Connor, just like he didn't want to face the reality of Toby's mortality, then Mikey's death. Don't let anyone get close, and you don't get hurt.

 

Pretty obvious by his reaction to Toby and Connor at the breakfast table, he still loves Connor, but can't deal with the thought that Connor might someday no longer love him, so he breaks it off. Now lonliness and guilt are the pain Ryan has to get used to.

 

To bad Connor has to be a victum of Ryans selfishness. Just about the time Connor gives in to his feelings for Ben, Ryan will come to his senses, and it will be too late, then we will see a real train wreck.

 

 

Great chapter LB, really good set up for Ch. 23. I'm just itching for Ch. 23. Now I'm back on the anxiety meds again............THANKS! :wacko:

 

Thanks Kitty for all your hard work.

 

Ex.

Edited July 9, 2006 by ex52tech

[C James]

I like what you wrote. Like always, it made me think again. Do you think we have met the real Connor yet?

 

I don't think we have, and expect that when we do, BOY will it be an entrance. (or not) He lets boys he doesn't live kiss him. He shies from attention feeling unworthy, but accepts it wherever he can get it. Cody needs someone - I will fill in. Toby needs someone - I will fill in. Ben needs a test person - I will fill in.

 

IMHO, a big part of this story is the theme of change: Connor is changing, as are all the other characters.

Who would have thought, early in the story, that Connor would fight back against a bully, let alone win? Who would have thought that he would end up being the "rock" for so many of the others?

 

Change can be bad, too. Who would have thought (in the early chapters) that Ryan would act like he has been lately?

 

Just like real people: they change.

 

Shutting up now.

 

That's the only thing you said that I take issue with: Please don't! I for one very much enjoy your posts.

 

C'mon guys, let's make this the longest chapter thread yet (of course, it has to be on topic ... no just posting nonsense! ) And, if y'all do that, I promise Ch. 23 will be really good ... hehe

 

OK, the longest prior thread was 59 posts. this one is in the upper 40's last time I looked, so it should be easy to do (even if we somehow stay on topic!).

 

Or if she caused it with her excessive drinking and the acid she dropped both times when she was pregnant.

We still haven't learned all of the details of the tragic lion cage accident that took Cody's father from Tatyanna when they were campaigning across the southern regions of Europe for increased submarine safety.

Don't be silly! Everyone knows that they were busy installing good ventilation (screen doors) on those submarines!

Yes, Connor seems to have a saviour complex going, doesn't he? People who do that are usually seeking their own redemption, which they never really achieve. Because of his history and personality, Connor feels defective somehow and no matter how much good he does, he can't overcome that.

Wow, even a Goat can have a good point!

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head: IMHO, when someone has Connor's past, or similar, they often have self-esteem issues.

Personally, I always liked Toby better but I dont see it happening. I was actually expecting/hoping for a break up. Now theres room for someone new; Cody, Tody, Ben??? I'd prefer any of these to Ryan. He just doesent seem as realsitic or full as the other characters. Where the others have showed logical progression Ryan strikes me as inconsistent and i dont think it can be brushed off as just ADD.

ADD alone wouldn't cause Ryan's problem, but it certainly would make it easier for him to have his problems. One of the "coping" responses to having ADD is best described as an addiction to focus: the person tends to fixate on tasks or concerns one at a time as a way of coping with the distractive nature of ADD. I see some of this in Ryan, especially in the reluctance to deal with the unexpected.

 

However, I think you are right: there are deeper issues than ADD at play here.

And to think that I was complaining that Ryan was too perfect at one point.... I certainly can't say that anymore!

I wasn't expecting their breakup to happen like that, on a sudden spur of the moment for Ryan, I was expecting a fight or something... But the breakup in itself could be expected.

 

I had thought that the central pairing was Connor and Ryan, and I guess I am still hanging onto that, I mean, they have been central to the story until now... So I am not expecting for their story to end like that and for connor to simply move on with whomever. Maybe I'm very wrong, it's just the way I feel, that it is a story about them as couple, growing from a teenager to an adult relationship.

But we'll see, maybe I'm in for a huge surprise....

 

Just a thought: but we know that the end of SOOTB is fast approaching, just three more chapters IIRC. The story so far has IMHO largely been based around Ryan and Connor's relationship. What if the end of the story is due to the final end of that relationship (Connor moving on, or maybe Ryan's death?)? Just a thought.

 

To bad Connor has to be a victum of Ryans selfishness. Just about the time Connor gives in to his feelings for Ben, Ryan will come to his senses, and it will be too late, then we will see a real train wreck.

 

I suspect a real train wreck. Ryan will have a LOT of issues to face if he ever snaps out of this. Mikey's death, Toby's near death, Connor, etc, etc. Add to that the possibility that Ryan will refuse to be Toby's donor, and you have the recipe for disaster.

[Jaseon]

This chapter seemed... off. From Connor's sudden hatred of Maggie, to the expansive timeframe, to Ryan's behavior (doesn't anyone care? You give people time, you don't give them months...), to Connor's consideration of a relationship with someone other than Ryan: it just felt wrong. I felt like all of the characters were acting out of character.

 

I posit Ryan as a suicide risk in case anyone's taking bets.

 

//shadows

these c

 

"I FELT LIKE ALL THE CHARACTERS WERE ACTING OUT OF CHARACTER."

 

This is a story about teenagers, when don't they act out of character. Teenagers take on many different attitudes in dealing with life. I remember how confusing all those first time emotions and conflcts, especially one's involving relationships, were so confusing and just kept my head in emotional turmoil.

LB has an amazing ability to convey what it is to be a teenagaer.

[LittleBuddhaTW]

Several people have said, in one way or another, that the chapter doesn't ring true, that the guys are acting out of character, that they "know" that people wouldn't act like that in similar circumstances in real life.

 

To give you a hint about what I'm going to say: when people are in the midst of a crisis or traumatic event, they don't act "in character", if you're basing that on how they (or you) act in normal everyday life. Judging them on the basis of what you think they ought to do, or what you think you would do, is pretty meaningless. Well, worse than meaningless, if it involves real live human beings, instead of characters in a story. Unfortunately, it seems like people nowadays (I'm referring to people in general, not the folks here) are having a very difficult time with this concept.

 

I think this is very important, and is one of the things that I'm trying to get across with the story as a whole.

 

I think we're all looking forward to what you have to say on this, Kitty!

 

*Hugz*

 

Buddha

[Boxerdude]

I think this is very important, and is one of the things that I'm trying to get across with the story as a whole.

 

I think we're all looking forward to what you have to say on this, Kitty!

 

*Hugz*

 

Buddha

 

 

I think you go back to some of my earlier posts, I agree 100% with Kitty. I think the way the characters are acting are very similar to what I have seen and or experienced in my own life. When you are young or old, if it is new experience, especially a traumatic one, you have no idea how "you" would act. We all "hope" we would know how we would act. Reality is what it is. We all do stupid things some times and then regret them later. I am no saint and have done some stupid things that "I" though I would never do and I am talking within the last week.

 

I think that this story is coming across with that point loud and clear, now the other side of reality is that there are some people who can forgive, forget, and move on. Then there are those who can't. What will be interesting is to see who these people are in this story. I still believe in emotional healing and that there will be some of that in the near future for some of our characters, maybe not all of them but we can hope.

 

"Remember, Life is like of box of Choclates, you never know what your gonna get" Forest Gump!!!

 

Boxerdude.

[Wynter]

To give you a hint about what I'm going to say: when people are in the midst of a crisis or traumatic event, they don't act "in character", if you're basing that on how they (or you) act in normal everyday life. Judging them on the basis of what you think they ought to do, or what you think you would do, is pretty meaningless. Well, worse than meaningless, if it involves real live human beings, instead of characters in a story. Unfortunately, it seems like people nowadays (I'm referring to people in general, not the folks here) are having a very difficult time with this concept.

Kitty

 

I like what you've said. I'll add my own now and we'll see if i understood you correctly.

 

I think that people generally feel a need to classify things, to put them into neat little boxes that we may claim to understand. It's a way of coping with life. However, this is often an inapproriate method, particularly in the case of human beings. Our personalities change/evolve as we age, mature, learn and experience. I think all of us have been told at one point or another 'thats not like you'. Im a fictional context I think we are much less forgiving of complicated personalities. The fact that we know the personality is synthetic makes it easy for us to dismiss the actions as poor writing. In truth the best writer in the world couldnt give us a perfect understanding of their character.

 

I'll leave you with a quote I think fits in with our discussion from The Golden Fool by Robin Hobb. Its a small extract from a rather impressive speech.

 

"You seek a false comfort when you demand that I define myself for you with words. Words do not contain any person. A heart can, if it is willing...What would you have me cut off and leave behind and why must I truncate myself to please you?"

 

Wynter

[Boxerdude]

Wynter, very well put. I wish I was as articulate with words as you have been. I really get your point of view and agree. You are a wise man. I am glad you decided to voice your opinion

 

Writers have an advantage over real people in that you get to see inside the characters head. Hear what they are thinking as in the real world that is not the case. But, sometimes it is the touch, the look, or even sound of the voice that can tell you what you need to know. I like your quote as well. "The heart can if it is willing...." what a powerful statement.

 

Please keep posting, it is good stuff.

 

Boxerdude

[C James]

these c

 

"I FELT LIKE ALL THE CHARACTERS WERE ACTING OUT OF CHARACTER."

 

This is a story about teenagers, when don't they act out of character. Teenagers take on many different attitudes in dealing with life. I remember how confusing all those first time emotions and conflcts, especially one's involving relationships, were so confusing and just kept my head in emotional turmoil.

LB has an amazing ability to convey what it is to be a teenagaer.

 

That is very, very true IMHO. It's all too easy to expect Teens to act like adults, but most don't. The way LB writes them is very consistent with real teens, especially their inconsistencies.

 

Does this mean I may need to edit Chapter 23 to add a lot of typos, bad grammar, and other assorted boo-boos? ... BTW, isn't this the chapter that features the twins, Ben and Jason?

 

What? Derick/Ethan is now going to be Derick/Ethan/Jason?

 

BTW, Kitty, if you find yourself truly in need of some typos, bad grammar, and other boo-boos, let me know and I'll send you the unedited draft of the story "No shirt? No problem!". It's got a lifetime supply!

 

I've been thinking for several days about what I want to say about this chapter, and I'm not there yet ... I don't know if it's going to be words of wisdom, so much as speaking from my personal experience, or my gut, actually.

 

Several people have said, in one way or another, that the chapter doesn't ring true, that the guys are acting out of character, that they "know" that people wouldn't act like that in similar circumstances in real life.

 

To give you a hint about what I'm going to say: when people are in the midst of a crisis or traumatic event, they don't act "in character", if you're basing that on how they (or you) act in normal everyday life. Judging them on the basis of what you think they ought to do, or what you think you would do, is pretty meaningless. Well, worse than meaningless, if it involves real live human beings, instead of characters in a story. Unfortunately, it seems like people nowadays (I'm referring to people in general, not the folks here) are having a very difficult time with this concept.

 

Good point!

Real people indeed do, especially under stress, act in ways that they otherwise would not.

 

One thing that IMHO makes the characters in SOOTB so real is that LB often seems to give them quirks and flaws, and occasional bad traits, without explaining in detail why. I think this works so well because real people are like that. We usually don't know every single reason why a real-live person is the way they are, so why should we in a story?

 

I think you go back to some of my earlier posts, I agree 100% with Kitty. I think the way the characters are acting are very similar to what I have seen and or experienced in my own life. When you are young or old, if it is new experience, especially a traumatic one, you have no idea how "you" would act. We all "hope" we would know how we would act. Reality is what it is. We all do stupid things some times and then regret them later. I am no saint and have done some stupid things that "I" though I would never do and I am talking within the last week.

 

I know that I have a tendency to do very stupid things when I'm faced with stress. Fortunately for me (but not those around me) this usually does not directly relate to the stress itself, but more often comes out in other ways. For example, I was recently under a fair amount of stress due to wildfires. I live in a remote area in the mountains, and there is only ONE way in and out (several miles of extremely rough Jeep trail). In other words, I can very easily get trapped by fire, as well as lose my home. A few weeks ago The conditions were perfect for wildfires, and we were having dry lightning in the area. This caused me a lot of stress, but there wasn't a darn thing I could really do about it. That caused me to act stupidly in some ways unrelated to the danger.

 

As for the story, there certainly has been no lack of stress! I'm just hoping that one of the characters doesn't do something irredeemable and unforgivable as a result.

 

One thing that is really making me wonder what will happen in Ch 23 is the mention that Ryan is the donor match for Toby. With Ryan acting like he is, and the hard feelings there (especially if he thinks Connor and Toby are together), could he refuse to be the donor?

[VTicarus]

With Ryan acting like he is, and the hard feelings there (especially if he thinks Connor and Toby are together), could he refuse to be the donor?

 

Ok, I couldn't shut up for long.

 

Let's trust in the power of love. Luckily, in most cases, it is the strongest emotion. You can be mad as lleh at someone but still love them with all your heart.

 

Phew - thanks for the Derek reminder. I was beginning to think I lost my track. Hmmmmm, maybe Kitty was teasing us. I think you should release the next chapter today so we can make sure Derek is safe and sound.

Edited July 10, 2006 by VTicarus

[Camy]

Good chapter!

I posit Ryan as a suicide risk in case anyone's taking bets.

I have to disagree.

I think Ryan is realising how fragile life is. To have a close friend die in a car wreck, especially at that age must be devastating.

In chapter 21 before they are told about Mickeys car accident Ryan says:

'"Couldn't you have told us that over the phone, instead of worrying us sick and us almost getting into a car wreck on the way over here?" Ryan asked, obviously very unhappy with his mother.'

Add to that Toby's illness and my bet is Ryan is frightened it'll hurt Connor more if he should die as well, better to break it off...

 

Another wild theory from the house of Camy

PS If anyone else has had this theory and I've missed it. Apologies. welcome to insanity.

[NickolasJames8]

Good chapter!

 

 

 

Another wild theory from the house of Camy

Yeah, I agree...camy's theory's are no where near as sensible as mine