A little rant

[Matthew]

I have my license, but I have never "enjoyed" driving, I see it as a means to an end, and the more automated the process, the better. While staying with my dad for the summer, I don't drive because I don't have a car here in Arizona. He takes me basically anywhere I need to go, and I supplement it with rides from others. But since my dad is leaving tomorrow for 10 days, I needed to have a way to get around. So I guilted him into letting me use his car while he's gone, which no one besides him has ever driven. The issue isn't just that it's his precious little BMW, which was the main reason he wanted me to stay away from the keys, but because it's a standard, which I've never driven. So I've had to spend the past week learning it, which culminated in me driving it here (Tucson) from Phoenix, where he's flying out of.

 

So, the question I have for the car people here after this experience is: Why on Earth would anyone choose a standard? I know, I've heard the standard reasons; better gas mileage, more control, etc. But after this experience, I've decided that before I ever even consider a standard it would have to get twice as much gas mileage and cost at least $5,000 less. I know those aren't realistic, but I see nothing short of that that could ever compel me to choose one of those god-awful cars. They're so much work, so much more thinking, and when I thought I couldn't hate them anymore, it didn't have cruise control! If I could find one, I'd get a car that drove itself. The point of a car, to me, is to get you where you're going, the less I have to contribute to that, the better. The whole mindset behind buying one of these cars is beyond me, I just don't get it.

Edited July 24, 2006 by Matthew

[Dezlboi]

You sort of answered it yourself. People drive for different reasons - some purely practical, some not. I, for one, drive 80 miles a day during the week, minimum, and I enjoy driving quite a bit. I drive a standard because I like to feel connected to the car, and a more involved participant in the driving. You don't, and that's cool, it just means that you and I get different things out of it.

 

BTW - it' only "more thinking" for the first few weeks or so. After that, it's so automatic that you don't think about it consciously.

 

Also, auto vs. standard makes more of a difference in some cars than others. For example, my car (a 99 Jetta diesel) gets about 48mpg. My mom's car, essentially the same but an automatic, gets about 40. That adds up.

 

Hope that helps,

Dez

[Tim the Traveller]

It really is personal preference and nothing more these days, Unless you drive an large truck.

 

I just have always known how to operate a clutch. Having half of the vehicles made off limits to me just was never an option.

 

And as far as I know, They don't make farm machinery with automatics.

 

My problem nowadays is when i drive an automatic--Every time I slow down my left foot is going for the clutch whether it is there or not.

 

Oh and a manual is much faster, proven time and time again than any automatic in the same vehicle. As long as the person driving it knows how to drive it anyway. It does take a little bit of finesse. And you are definitely more in touch with the vehicle. I do like a manual for going through the mountains, Just because it saves on the brakes so much when you can use the engine to slow you down. You can downshift an automatic to slow you down, but heat is the #1 killer of automatic transmissions, So I never do it.

 

But a BMW manual sounds like fun--I have heard that they can really move!!!

 

 

 

 

 

[Matthew]

But a BMW manual sounds like fun--I have heard that they can really move!!!

 

Not in my case, half the time when I want it to move the engine dies. It's entirely my fault of course, it's a wonderdul car, I'm sure, if you know how to drive it.

[Tim the Traveller]

Not in my case, half the time when I want it to move the engine dies. It's entirely my fault of course, it's a wonderdul car, I'm sure, if you know how to drive it.

 

LOL

 

Your not "feeling the car". You have to become one with the car. Let it tell you what to do.

 

Simple instructions. Go to a flat empty road. That is the best place to learn to feel the car. just practise starting out and stopping. Stay in first gear for a while. Once you get first gear down, All the rest are easy.

 

first things first. When you push the clutch, It is basically in neutral. It will roll freely. Some people dont realize that.

 

When you first start out, If done correctly, The gas pedal is hardly needed. Just slowly let off the clutch until it starts to move. As soon as it starts to move, Lightly hit the gas pedal as you are still letting off the clutch at the same slow rate. You can't let off the clutch too fast though or it will kill on you.

 

As with anything new to you though, All it really takes is practise. And some foot coordination. Just be patient with yourself.

 

 

 

[Matthew]

See, now it seems like people have different takes on this. My dad, who was teaching me, was telling me to get it to around 1200 rpm before I even start letting off the clutch.

 

And this is why it's hard at first. It's like rubbing your stomach and patting your head, it's counter intuitive to let off of one thing slowly and push on another at a different rates.

 

I don't want to be one with the car, I want to give the car an address and have it take me there.

[C James]

See, now it seems like people have different takes on this. My dad, who was teaching me, was telling me to get it to around 1200 rpm before I even start letting off the clutch.

 

And this is why it's hard at first. It's like rubbing your stomach and patting your head, it's counter intuitive to let off of one thing slowly and push on another at a different rates.

 

I don't want to be one with the car, I want to give the car an address and have it take me there.

 

Standard Vs. Automatic does seem to be a matter of taste. It also takes quite a bit of getting used to if you didn't learn to drive on a stick.

 

One advantage is that overseas, they often charge one doozy of a premium to rent an automatic. I have a cousin who works at a car rental agency in the UK, and she says that they refer to in in their office as "the Yankee tax". I've also been in quite a few places where renting an Automatic just wasn't an option.

 

As for preferences, I prefer a standard on a high-performance car. Often, especially for European imports, the Automatic is a real performance drain. I also like the control you get when racing: the downshift is so much better then braking, and you can wind up the torque and kick it in just as you come out of a curve.

 

For everyday driving, I prefer automatics. I do a lot of driving on "Jeep Trails", and I prefer an automatic in 4WD vehicles too. I find it easier for crawling over rocks.

[AFriendlyFace]

Well as you know I too completely hate driving 9/10 times. I think it's because basically I consider it an essentially dangerous activity. On the other hand I like learning new skills so I was pleased to learn how to drive one.

BTW - it' only "more thinking" for the first few weeks or so. After that, it's so automatic that you don't think about it consciously.

Definitely true! After awhile you really won't "think" about it at all.

 

My problem nowadays is when i drive an automatic--Every time I slow down my left foot is going for the clutch whether it is there or not.

me too, Tim! Drives me crazy looking for clutches that aren't there

 

See, now it seems like people have different takes on this. My dad, who was teaching me, was telling me to get it to around 1200 rpm before I even start letting off the clutch.

 

And this is why it's hard at first. It's like rubbing your stomach and patting your head, it's counter intuitive to let off of one thing slowly and push on another at a different rates.

There's definitely a difference of oppinion about the best way to learn and the best way to take off in general. For me speed of take off is of absolutely no priority. I almost never accelerate quickly. I'll top off at the speed limit (or maybe a tad faster ), but I always take my sweet time getting there. I also stop and slow down very gradually. I like to use both the accelerator and the brake as little as possible, and I've always driven this way regardless of what type of vehicle I've driven. As such unless I'm on an incline I don't use the accelerator at all when I take off. I just very gradually release the clutch. So rest assured it's completely possible to take off without using the accelerator at all. It can even be done in 2nd gear as long as you're on level ground and you let it out slowly.

 

When I was first learning people always told me to depress the accelerator as I slowly released the clutch; however, like you I found this to be a rather difficult exercise in pediatic coordination. So I preferred to just focus on the clutch. I think it's also more wear on the clutch if you "floor it" while releasing it too. On the other hand it is true that the faster you've got the engine running the less likely you are to die out though so that may be worth considering.

 

Anyway Matty bottom line I think, like me, you need a boy who's willing to drive all the time

-Kevin

[Davey]

In the UK hardly anyone drives autos. In fact I've never driven or even been in one.

I remember when I took my test if you were tested in an auto you could only drive autos. If you were tested in a manual then you can drive what ever you want. Seems pretty daft since if I got into an automatic I wouldnt know what to do.

 

I love my stick

[Lugnutz]

But a BMW manual sounds like fun--I have heard that they can really move!!!

 

Oh, it is fun. My all wheel drive BMW is a animal with the 5 speed. Personally, I like a stick in a fun car, auto in my daily driver, but those thoughts aren't firm.

[Dezlboi]

I love my stick

 

We all love your stick, Davey.

 

When I learned, my dad (who has a great sense of humor) drove me halfway up a hill in the middle of an unused industrial park, parked the car, and made me switch seats with him. A great way to learn to control the clutch and get used to starting on hills is "trial by fire".

 

For me it's all second nature now, since I've been driving a sitck for 15 years, but really, it's just a matter of getting a feel the "magic zone", the maybe 1/2" of travel between a released clutch and a fully-engaged one. Once you're used to that, you can start, stop, feather it in the middle...hell, I can sit on a hill perfectly still by hovering the clutch in that zone so it's exerting enough force to keep me in place on the hill - no brakes. Bad for the clutch though.

 

OTOH, my Jetta has about 202K on it and it's the original clutch so I'm doing something right.

 

-Dez

[rknapp]

I've driven a stick maybe 100ft in my lifetime... it was a 2004 Nissan 350z coupe, and only because my friend could not get it out of the driveway.

 

I'd LOVE to have a stick in my car... sadly, Grand Prix's do not have that option, so I'm stuck with the 4-speed automatic slushbox that GM stuck in there, probably as an afterthought. One of my stipulations for carshopping in a few years is that the car is a manual, with a sunroof. Standards aren't bad at all, once you've mastered 1st gear, you've mastered the entire drivetrain of the car. After that, you won't notice it at all until you get to a nice twisty and abuse that beamer like the german whore she is...

[Kurt]

I am terrible with a manuel vehical. I can hardly get the thing to move. I will stick with the automatic!

 

Kurt

[Drewbie]

I would never have a sports car with an automatic. The 2000-2005 you can't even get an automatic.

[Rabble_Rouser]

Well, here's my 2 cents...

 

- I've driven a BMW 328 with a stick and it's definitely a sweet car! My buddy who owns it always tells people who are starting to drive a stick for the first time that it's best to "drive it like you hate it" until you get the feel of the clutch\throttle points.

 

- I've always driven a stick and I love nothing more than spending some time on some country roads where I can enjoy my car (Acura RSX). When I'm forced to drive an auto I have the bad habit of trying to stomp on the clutch and grabbing the shifter before I remember what I'm doing.

 

- My preference is a stick for everything except dense traffic (3 hours in bumper-to-bumper traffic gives your left leg a good workout) and the parking garage at the office (the genius who designed the parking garage obviously never drove a stick since the exit from the garage is straight ramp from 3 floors beneath grade with a traffic light at street level... and usually someone an inch of my @ss ).

 

- One thing no-one has mentioned was the problems a stick can be when injured... I broke my collar bone in high school and couldn't drive because I couldn't shift!

 

Remember, Drive it like you hate it!!! (once your dad's out of ear shot )

 

Steve

[rknapp]

Well, here's my 2 cents...

 

- I've driven a BMW 328 with a stick and it's definitely a sweet car! My buddy who owns it always tells people who are starting to drive a stick for the first time that it's best to "drive it like you hate it" until you get the feel of the clutch\throttle points.

 

- I've always driven a stick and I love nothing more than spending some time on some country roads where I can enjoy my car (Acura RSX). When I'm forced to drive an auto I have the bad habit of trying to stomp on the clutch and grabbing the shifter before I remember what I'm doing.

 

- My preference is a stick for everything except dense traffic (3 hours in bumper-to-bumper traffic gives your left leg a good workout) and the parking garage at the office (the genius who designed the parking garage obviously never drove a stick since the exit from the garage is straight ramp from 3 floors beneath grade with a traffic light at street level... and usually someone an inch of my @ss ).

 

- One thing no-one has mentioned was the problems a stick can be when injured... I broke my collar bone in high school and couldn't drive because I couldn't shift!

 

Remember, Drive it like you hate it!!! (once your dad's out of ear shot )

 

Steve

 

Reminds me of a guy who was talking about his neighbor who has a C5... he'll take off seemingly normal, and then the front end dips and jerks back with a nice "womp-WOOOOOOMP"

 

Mmmmmmmm