An English Teen, Circumcised in the USA...Nifty changes title.

[Riley Jericho]

It was a bit of a shock when I discovered a couple of weeks ago that the folk at Nifty decided they needed to change my title. I know that the tale (from the last thread I posted on this) had caused a bit of a stir, but I was still shocked by the title change that was done without any discussion.

 

After the story had got going here on GA, I cross posted to Nifty - like many of us do - to increase the audience, but discovered that the tale had been posted with an altered title. It had been changed to "An English Teen". As you might guess, that kind of destroys the whole focus of it. The guy from Nifty initially said "Yes, I changed the title. How many times can the character be circumcised? Once. Okay, the character is in the U.S. and needs to be circumcised? That cannot be the entire story."

 

We've had quite a few discussions over the last week or so, and it's not that he has just ignored me. But, at the same time, is unwilling to publish under my current title.

 

I kind of don't know what to do. Maybe some of you even know who he is...perhaps he's even a member here?

 

It doesn't seem to be the content of the tale, but the my title that is the problem. Is it that unpleasant, or too long, or not succinct enough that someone should take it away?

 

What does everyone think? Should I buckle under and publish under a different title, or keep my tale as it is, title and all?

 

Riley J

[Menzoberranzen]

The bottom line is that you, not the Nifty overlord, are the author of this work. And therefore you should use whatever title you goddamn well want.

 

Menzo

[MikeL]

I agree with Menzo. It's a great story. It's your story. Publish it where you feel appreciated.

 

Most of all, keep writing.

 

Did you know this story inspired a question in a poll related to another story?

Edited March 23, 2010 by MikeL

[Nephylim]

Some of the greatest works have been published under different names for whatever the reason. Look at Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. Of course Americans know absolutely nothing about alchemy... as we Brits clearly do... and so it had to be changed to Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone.

 

(Edited to say In case anyone might get the wrong idea this was a pop at the idiots who changed the title and not a suggestion that Americans don't actually know what alchemy is )

 

Okay bad example but just for you not to feel too offended that your title was changed. You are in good company... kind of.

 

Having said that I think you, as the author, should have absolute control over what you call your story. If people don't like the title they won't read the story... it's up to them not up to the thug who is overseeing the site.

 

I would say... if the title means nothing to you then let it be changed becuse what's the point in wasting energy to fight a battle whose outcome doesn't really matter either way. If the title does mean something to you, which I think it does then tell the creep... give me my title back or I pull the story. It's their loss and there are other better places to post.

 

Personally I don't like Nifty anyway. I don't like the quality of the stories, I don't like the way they are presented and now i don't like the people either.

 

The one thing I DO like is your story... whatever it's called.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Nephylim

[Drewbie]

I doubt it he's a member here, but maybe he looks at the site, and I'd say move it to another site, they shouldn't change your title.

[Riley Jericho]

I replied to him several times - one of which was:

Yep, I think titles are really important too. Something that just says "Darren and Jake" can be a bit weak - short without the pithy!

 

On a bookshelf, all a book has to go on (if the author is unknown) is its title and design cover. Online, that mostly comes down to the title. To me, it's a bit like the Hugh Grant Movie "The Englishman Who Went Up a Hill But Came Down a Mountain." I thought it was great, and certainly beat the alternative of "English guy climbs Hill"!

 

I tend to feel that "English Teen in the USA" (so what - plenty of brits in the states these days) and "Circumcised in the USA" (not much story there either) miss the point of the key issue of taking a brit (who grew up in a certain non-circ culture) and dumping him in the USA, This is what the story is about. And, like the Hugh Grants movie, the title deliberately draws the elements together with a slightly long, but deliberately quirky phrase.

 

Is the title "An English Teen, Circumcised in the USA" a distraction? Well, yes, I hope it is. Will people be put off? Actually it seems not. On the GA site, it's only into its 4th chapter and has already pulled nearly 5000 story reads. As one reader (and author) told me - it was the very nature of the title that engaged his attention and caused him to look twice and then start reading it. And if they don't want to read it because of the title or because it seems like a niche? Well, I'm not really bothered. Those that do will enjoy it I hope.

 

He also started suggesting other titles, as if that would help

"How about something cuter, like "A Cut Above". "A Little off the top". "Cut in the Colonies. "Cut across the pond". "Mop Top Cock".

I personally like English Teen Cut in the Colonies"

In the end, it seems he took it down as I remained committed to my title.

 

But am I being overly sensitive? As Nephy pointed out, sometimes titles can change to meet the needs of the audience (aka Harry Potter) and, of course, like any author, I love my words to be read and enjoyed.

 

Riley

[Drewbie]

With the title with harry potter, could of been cause of a stupid lawyer or promotions, if you feel it changes it, I still say take it down, and I don't think you are being sensitive.

[Riley Jericho]

I agree with Menzo. It's a great story. It's your story. Publish it where you feel appreciated.

 

Most of all, keep writing.

 

Did you know this story inspired a question in a poll related to another story?

 

You lost me there Mike. I checked the poll and the questions from your link....but don't get the connection....

Riley

PS Thanks for the dropping a note here, and for the encouragement.

[Nephylim]

In the end, it seems he took it down as I remained committed to my title.

 

But am I being overly sensitive? As Nephy pointed out, sometimes titles can change to meet the needs of the audience (aka Harry Potter) and, of course, like any author, I love my words to be read and enjoyed.

 

Riley

 

 

I certainly didn't want to suggest that you are being over sensitive. I tend to be blase about my titles. rightly or wrongly I consider them to be the least part of my story BUT if someone TOLD me to change it then not in a million years would I

 

It is the case that sometimes titles are changed to cater for different audiences and as I said there is no point fighting over something that is not really important.

 

On the other hand if it IS important then fight all the way. And it really doesn't matter if you're being over sensitive or not. It's your story and if you don't like what someone is doing to it then that's your privilege whatever the reason.

[Krista]

I can see where Nifty would change a title IF there are a lot of titles like the title of the story. The story I wrote "Roommates," well that's a really common title, so they changed it to - "Roommates Brett and Will." I was ok with that, but heh.. they didn't ask me before they changed it.

 

Your problem though, I would be angry. It was an original title, and it is YOUR title to YOUR story, so they really had no reason to change it..

[MikeL]

You lost me there Mike. I checked the poll and the questions from your link....but don't get the connection....

Riley

PS Thanks for the dropping a note here, and for the encouragement.

Look at the poll again and check the last response to the last question.

[Steve3]

My blood starts to boil at any thought of censorship that I'm exposed to. I'm speaking of arbitrary and capricious censorship of anything that's legal, and doesn't harm a soul.

 

This NIFTY web admin has absolutely no business altering what his narrow mind perceives as an objectionable title of any Author's work.

 

I examined the lists of "REMOVED" and "REJECTED" titles on one of the NIFTY mirrors. There are indeed some titles that could raise the hackles of even the most permissive among us. However, your title doesn't come anywhere close to those.

 

There are SEVERAL Nifty mirror sites, with different admins. Why not try another NIFTY mirror site, and see if any other admin agrees with this clown.

 

OTOH, if the fact that you're using the word "circumcision" in the title is really what is gettin all of their panties in a wad, then I need to rethink my support of the NIFTY.ORG as well.

 

Steve³

Edited March 24, 2010 by The_FNG (Steve3)

[Lugh]

Inform them that their copyright statement says that the author retians all rights to the story and that by changing the title without your expressed consent they are in violation of that statement and you want the story either removed or corrected immediately.

[Tomas]

As a reader, I rarely go to Nifty looking for something to read. IMHO, a very large percentage of the stuff that is on Nifty is crap.

About the only time that I do go there is when I am caught up on all of the stories that I am following and am waiting for new chapters to be posted. (and " An English Teen, Circumcised in the USA" is one that I am following) Fortunately, I do not have to go there very often, because there are enough excellent authors and quality stories on quality sites to fulfill my reading needs.

 

If I were an author and a site admin changed the title of one of my stories without consulting me with a legitimate reason for it to be changed, I believe that I would pull all of my stories from that site and cease any and all support and then tell the fans of my stories why they are unable to read at that site and direct them to wherever I moved my stories.

 

Anyway, That is just my opinion.

 

Oh! As some others have mentioned, it was the title that caught my interest.

[NaperVic]

There are SEVERAL Nifty mirror sites, with different admins. Why not try another NIFTY mirror site, and see if any other admin agrees with this clown.

 

My understanding is that the mirror sites mirror the main site, that the content is the same on every one of the mirrors (with the exception of new content appearing on the main site first and then showing up on the mirrors when they update).

[Riley Jericho]

My blood starts to boil at any thought of censorship that I'm exposed to. I'm speaking of arbitrary and capricious censorship of anything that's legal, and doesn't harm a soul.

 

This NIFTY web admin has absolutely no business altering what his narrow mind perceives as an objectionable title of any Author's work.

 

I examined the lists of "REMOVED" and "REJECTED" titles on one of the NIFTY mirrors. There are indeed some titles that could raise the hackles of even the most permissive among us. However, your title doesn't come anywhere close to those.

 

There are SEVERAL Nifty mirror sites, with different admins. Why not try another NIFTY mirror site, and see if any other admin agrees with this clown.

 

OTOH, if the fact that you're using the word "circumcision" in the title is really what is gettin all of their panties in a wad, then I need to rethink my support of the NIFTY.ORG as well.

 

Steve

[Nephylim]

Riley

PS The story goes on though - and it's back to the surgery soon, so hang on to your bits!!

 

 

Makes me glad I'm a girl

[NateB]

My understanding is that the mirror sites mirror the main site, that the content is the same on every one of the mirrors (with the exception of new content appearing on the main site first and then showing up on the mirrors when they update).

 

 

Right, they use a Load balancing server that projects it as a 301 redirect I believe depending on geographic location and traffic usage. We do services like that at work for plenty of companies. VS having multiple a records, and they all propagate to the different servers. I'ce noticed that there is sometimes a full 24 hours of delay which is why I use their main nifty.org/nifty/gay if there is a story I'm following on there.

[wildone]

Okay, my two cents worth is that it is your story, your title, and you have the right to decide what it is published as. Also, Nifty is a private site and can dictate by their own rules (which we have no say in) what you can call your story. In the case of them taking your story down, I would say you are very very very lucky that it ended that way. I do believe Nifty can refuse to pull your story down until they choose, or you supply them with an equally (in their opinion) worthwhile story.

 

Riley, I would say cut your ties with Nifty and know you came out ahead. It takes a lot of wading through the trash in there to find the gems. I used to frequent Nifty a lot, but all the quality stories eventually led me to the respectable sites like GA. You are here, you won't be missed there. Enjoy life

Edited March 25, 2010 by wildone

[DomLuka]

Something to consider: Every day a story stays posted under a certain title is a day that someone has grown familiar with that title. If it changes, readers may have a smaller chance/more difficult chance of finding/reading, that story. There are a lot of readers on Nifty who haven

[Adam Phillips]

The administator at Nifty is widely known among writers of gay narrative for his quirkiness. He's going to do what he's going to do. You need to recognize this and balance out your desire to have your title exactly the way you want it against the advantage of having a huge pool of readers--probably more than Gayauthors gets.

 

I post new chapters to Nifty last. New chapters go to my other host sites first. (We won't talk about the last time I posted a new chapter; that's another subject entirely). But I get more reader email from Nifty than I do from the other two sites that host my story. I'll continue to submit my stuff to Nifty. But I don't consider it my "primary" host. Actually Archerland was my primary host, and now that it's gone I've acquired a new one.

 

Almost anybody can post to Nifty. That's why it's so easy to find dreck there. But you get a lot of readers there, and isn't that what we writers are all after? You can post it as you want it at a host site that lets you do it your way, and only you can decide whether telling the Nifty archivist to take a flying leap is justified in your mind. Personally, I like having that pool of readers.

 

 

--Adam P

[Riley Jericho]

I think if the Nifty admin relented, I would still be happy to post there, though his last reply on the subject was:

" I am happy to publish this story -- and any of your stories with appropriate content -- on Nifty. The story title is a problem for me, for a number of reasons that I have mentioned. I suggested a number of options, but did not receive a productive response to continue the discussion. I do not know to proceed if there is no room for compromise."

 

He doesn't feel like he might be the kind of person that has learned how to change an opinion and still feel OK about life.

 

I like readers too - and maybe there would be thousands more coming through Nifty. Mind you, I prefer readers who respond and reflect back on something I've written...I'll take one of those against hundreds of lurkers who just read and run! Maybe we're all like that! And the word COMPROMISE sticks in my throat! Maybe after the story is finished here on GA and I feel less bound by it....we'll see.

 

But - just so you know, the next chapter of An English Teen, Circumcised in the USA is out! I wouldn't what you to miss it after all this now would I?

 

It's called Exceedingly Well Circumcised and involves......well, that would be telling!

 

Riley Jericho

[Adam Phillips]

You know what makes me laugh about this? It's the presence of all those totally-awful examples of writing all over Nifty. Stories written by people who seem not even to know the alphabet, much less anything about strong writing; and beyond that, the dreadful stories themselves...

 

And he wants to quibble over a title?

 

Hilarious.

 

--Adam P

[Guest Wyndham]

My initial reaction was outrage. How dare Nifty take that stand! And then I remembered that I don't like Nifty for lots of reasons and felt this might be an expected reaction.

 

I tend to associate the site with sloppy writing and careless attention - e.g. missing letters from words (not just bad spelling), not to mention missing words, wrong character names in the wrong places, etc. The plain text layout also makes stories less easy to read, etc. Consequently I associate the authors who post on Nifty with the same attributes, although this is clearly unfair if people like Riley are posting there. The problem is the association.

 

My suggestion Riley, is stick to your guns and don't compromise.

 

btw, love the story I was certainly one of those attracted (intrigued?) by the title. It creates a compulsion to at least see what the story is about. I personally think it is an excellent title. It probably deserves an award from GA for being the most evocative story title.......

[Riley Jericho]

My initial reaction was outrage. How dare Nifty take that stand! And then I remembered that I don't like Nifty for lots of reasons and felt this might be an expected reaction.

 

I tend to associate the site with sloppy writing and careless attention - e.g. missing letters from words (not just bad spelling), not to mention missing words, wrong character names in the wrong places, etc. The plain text layout also makes stories less easy to read, etc. Consequently I associate the authors who post on Nifty with the same attributes, although this is clearly unfair if people like Riley are posting there. The problem is the association.

 

My suggestion Riley, is stick to your guns and don't compromise.

 

btw, love the story I was certainly one of those attracted (intrigued?) by the title. It creates a compulsion to at least see what the story is about. I personally think it is an excellent title. It probably deserves an award from GA for being the most evocative story title.......

 

Oooo - what a fab idea - an award category for most evocative story title. Hope someone is reading this. I might even win something!!

Riley

PS Thanks for the support by the way!!