What do you like about being gay?

[AFriendlyFace]

Jeez, if anything, I thought the last line of my post would have sparked a discussion.

Nah, I found the comments against gay culture and regarding misogyny to be much more provocative.

 

I'm not ashamed, I just don't fit stereotypes. Which by the way, I never try to not fit them, I don't fit by being myself, because I am a unique

[Jonnie]

Would it be too personal to ask why you find the idea of sex unappealing? Please don't misunderstand my intentions. I'm merely curious, not making any sort of judgment.

 

I just think sex is highly overrated, something not wouldn't be that great anyway, and just something I don't think I'd ever want. Part of the reason I try not to watch TV or movies anymore is because it's everywhere and it's annoying. There's many a story on eFiction I've stopped reading because it got into some ridiculous sex part that was probably thrown in by some sex-starved virgin. Or something.

 

To me there seems to be an inherent contradiction and internal conflict in these statements. I understand what you're saying, but I neither agree with it nor think it tells the whole story.

 

Forgive me for proselytizing but there is a great deal to be proud of in gay culture and there are quite a few very positive 'stereotypes' that you can take as well. In any case railing against the stereotypes and bemoaning people's perceptions of you in relation to gay society is counterproductive for both you and the advancement of the 'gay cause'.

 

It is far better, in my opinion, to embrace the positive perceptions and work to change the negative perceptions from within. In other words why not actively identify with the gay community and then present yourself as a positive and worthy emissary in the straight world? By trying to distance yourself from the community you have to fight twice as hard for your progress AND if achieved you negate any positive effect it might have had with regards to people's impression of the gay world.

 

Forgive the conjecture, but I would also speculate that you haven't had a great deal of first-hand exposure to very many other gay people or to the 'gay world' in general. Gay Authors is a great and positive taste of it, but I think you have further to go in 'real life' when it comes to learning and experiencing gays and gay culture. Until you do that, frankly I don't think you're in much of a position to deride them. Doing so makes you equivalent to a judgmental, homophobic straight person, with the added 'bonus' that you're harming 'your own people'.

 

The vast majority of people that love and care about are GLBT. Granted there are many straight ones as well, but except for my family and a few old friends most people I like and care about are gay or lesbian. Obviously then since these are my best friends I'm biased, but I find an amazing amount of positive, meritorious qualities in them. They're people I very much respect and admire and I've had very good experiences with them. They're warm, open, affectionate, loving, intelligent, brave, strong, courageous, worldly, and supportive to name just a few of their good points. I think anyone would be lucky to have such people in their lives.

 

Anyway, obviously I'm very biased, and further this is an issue I feel strongly about, so please forgive any overly critical or harsh remarks or assumptions that I might have made. I definitely don't mean to come off as 'attacking' you, Jonnie, but I do very much want to present the other side to your argument.

 

Just because I'm gay, does it mean I have to consider myself a part of the gay 'community'? I mean, sure, I joined these forums and everything, but I'm talking about in real life. Do I have to care about the progress of gay people as a whole? How is distancing myself from the community impeding my progress? If I'm not mistaken, my progress has nothing to do with the community at large. Unless, of course, I'm mistaken by what exactly you mean by 'progress,' and in which case, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

Also, the fact I've never wanted to have a part in gay culture stems from the fact that any time I've tried, even if it's just learning about it through pictures and TV, I've always been put off by it. I tried watching a gay channel—ever heard of Logo?—and I didn't like it much at all. In fact, it even deepened my distaste for gay culture. I don't believe I have to be an active member in the 'gay culture' to be a happy person in the first place.

 

And regarding the people who you love and care about that are GLBT—I'm not saying I'm gonna hate people because they're gay, because I don't wanna be a hypocrite. I'm just saying I myself will never be an active member in the gay community, will never speak up for gay rights (because I think we have a hell of a lot more than other countries anyway), will never like gay culture ONLY because it is not for me. I will never say it is stupid on the whole—I might say pride parades are stupid, and other certain facets of gay culture I don't like, but never gay culture in and of itself. So, forgive me if it seemed like I thought gay culture was something to be abhored or silly or something, I just said I don't like stereotypes and the gay connotation. I don't remember ever 'deriding' gay culture/the gay experience or gay people themselves.

 

And no, don't worry, I didn't see your post as 'attacking' me, although I am confused because I don't remember commenting against gay culture itself.

[GaryK]

I just think sex is highly overrated, something not wouldn't be that great anyway, and just something I don't think I'd ever want. Part of the reason I try not to watch TV or movies anymore is because it's everywhere and it's annoying. There's many a story on eFiction I've stopped reading because it got into some ridiculous sex part that was probably thrown in by some sex-starved virgin. Or something.

In a way I can't deny the logic of your reasons. Sex is often highly overrated. I was in a 17 year relationship. Despite being somewhat sexually active, overall it was a small part of our relationship. If we didn't have other things in common it would have been a boring relationship that never would have lasted as long as it did. I'd go so far as to state I'd still love him even if we never had sex. I guess that's my long-winded way of saying whatever works for you is what you should do. I just want you to be sure that's what you really want.

[Procyon]

I'm not ashamed, I just don't fit stereotypes. Which by the way, I never try to not fit them, I don't fit by being myself, because I am a unique

[Jonnie]

In a way I can't deny the logic of your reasons. Sex is often highly overrated. I was in a 17 year relationship. Despite being somewhat sexually active, overall it was a small part of our relationship. If we didn't have other things in common it would have been a boring relationship that never would have lasted as long as it did. I'd go so far as to state I'd still love him even if we never had sex. I guess that's my long-winded way of saying whatever works for you is what you should do. I just want you to be sure that's what you really want.

 

I am sure what it's what I want (for once), thankfully.

 

Yet you're happy to see women as stereotypes? If you didn't you couldn't possibly be a misogynist, or not want to 'have to deal with women on a deeper level', as you said.

 

But maybe that was some kind of joke that I just didn't get. If so, though, I have to tell you it wasn't funny.

 

I realize now that I really didn't explain the misogyny part well enough.

 

For one thing, I don't have to see women as stereotypes to be a mysogynist or to not want to have to deal with women. Little things that women have done or have said around me have either offended me or angered me, and it happens quite a lot, but I do realize that shouldn't make me automatically not want to be around women at all, since there are women around me who have never done that—so part of it is I make a bigger deal out of things that offend or anger me, and I have never been able to help it.

 

The other part, I think, is because I'm gay. I mentioned relationships in my first post. Well, as far as I can tell, getting into a relationship is probably going to be all I want to live for the rest of my life (except for family). So, if I'm gay, and most of what I want out of life is to be in a life-long and meaningful relationship—with a man—I'm going to like men more than women for that, too.

 

Couple all of that with me being a loner and automatically disliking a lot of people, it doesn't bode well for me and my disposition towards women—but, by the way, I do try not to actually be sexist. I don't know if what I think of misogyny is different than what you think, but I don't actually hate women or think of them as lesser, it just dictates which sex I'm more likely to want to interact with.

 

Sorry if I confused, offended, or angered you—that was not my intent.

 

EDIT: I have also now realized that 'dealing with women' was probably way to negative of a way to put it, so that certainly didn't help. Sorry!

[ashessnow]

What an odd question.

[Benji]

What an odd question.

 

 

.......Your kidding?? That is probably the least odd question, considering some of the topics in this forum! :wacko:

[JamesSavik]

I just think sex is highly overrated, something not wouldn't be that great anyway, and just something I don't think I'd ever want.

 

 

This is an attitude that is sometimes expressed by victims of child sexual abuse. While some vics turn into sex addicts, others want nothing to do with sex.

 

The desire for sex is a universal regardless of orientation. It's hard wired into the human brain. While there are some physical problems (low hormones) that can inhibit the libido or psycological traumas that condition you to associate sex with pain, guilt or shame, either way it is something that you should explore with a professional-- and I don't mean a quack from church!

 

Sigmund Freud said that the only sexual deviance is not having any at all.

[NaperVic]

...While some vics turn into sex addicts, others want nothing to do with sex...

 

Not all of us turn into sex addicts!

 

 

[Jonnie]

This is an attitude that is sometimes expressed by victims of child sexual abuse. While some vics turn into sex addicts, others want nothing to do with sex.

 

The desire for sex is a universal regardless of orientation. It's hard wired into the human brain. While there are some physical problems (low hormones) that can inhibit the libido or psycological traumas that condition you to associate sex with pain, guilt or shame, either way it is something that you should explore with a professional-- and I don't mean a quack from church!

 

Sigmund Freud said that the only sexual deviance is not having any at all.

 

...I've got to learn to explain things better. I always find it hard to explain this one right, anyway.

 

I don't have a concious desire for sex. Doesn't mean I don't have a sex drive—I still get horny like any normal teenager. I just choose to ignore it because I see it as nothing special. I really don't know how to explain it, but I've done the best I can.

 

As for Freud, I personally don't trust the words pertaining to sex of any man who would honestly tell me I wanted to have sex with my mother when I was little.

[Benji]

...I've got to learn to explain things better. I always find it hard to explain this one right, anyway.

 

I don't have a concious desire for sex. Doesn't mean I don't have a sex drive

[myself_i_must_remake]

it seems a little silly to me.

 

you have the hormones and the drive, but you say you have no conscious desire of it.

 

honestly to me it sounds more like you have a very conscious denial of it. there's something fishy about how in all these posts you sound not only as if you don't care about, but that you're better than it as well, and if i'm reading you correctly, you've never been in a position to enjoy it normally.

 

my point is hard to clarify here, and i suppose that that's because i don't necessarily have one, i just think that a teenager who not only doesn't want sex and who is making a point of making sure a lot of people know is setting off a lot of alarms for me.

 

this isn't meant to be an attack or anything, i'm just letting you know, the things you say seem like an attempt at transcendence and also kind of suspicious.

[Jonnie]

To Benji:

That, or a priest.

 

lesfeuxdemoncoeur:

Yeah, I suppose I (kind of) see what you're saying. As for it being a conscious denial, I guess it could be that too—I just want to stress that I don't exactly know what to call it. I just don't see it as something I want for myself, so I'm not going to go for it.

 

I don't really see a cause for alarm. In fact...I don't remember how we got on this subject. D:

Edited June 17, 2008 by Jonnie

[Masked Monkey]

I don't have a concious desire for sex. Doesn't mean I don't have a sex drive

[Benji]

To Benji:

That, or a priest.

 

 

........Monks don't have to deal with women, Priests deal with nuns. Career advice is free!!

[Jonnie]

........Monks don't have to deal with women, Priests deal with nuns. Career advice is free!!

 

Never thought of that!

 

Being a loner myself, I can understand exactly what you are saying, even if you don't always explain it well.

 

I don't think you are a mysogonist, I think you used an incorrect label for how you feel, but used the best label you have at the moment.

 

Thanks for that. I didn't realize that, but I'm not surprised since I try not to think too much about these things because I usually don't get too far or it's too confusing—my reply to Procyon White went through at least 5 drafts!

 

I'm sorry I completely derailed this topic. But, to be on topic, I guess the uniqueness is a good thing, in a way—I said already I was quite unique, and being gay makes me even more unique. So cool.

[ashessnow]

.......Your kidding?? That is probably the least odd question, considering some of the topics in this forum! :wacko:

No, Im not kidding. Akin to asking what I like about being right handed. I have no idea.

[JamesSavik]

No, Im not kidding. Akin to asking what I like about being right handed. I have no idea.

 

Well- one thing to like about being right handed is that you share that trait with ~90% of the population. You don't need special left-handed versions of items that most people take for granted nor did you have to deal with early-elementary teachers that popped your hands with a ruler when you showed left-handed tendencies.

 

Gay people are in the opposite position: we are a tiny minority (>>10% of the population) and the powers that be would like to ignore our existence completely and deny the need for gay versions of common, day to day accommodations.

[Masked Monkey]

Well- one thing to like about being right handed is that you share that trait with ~90% of the population. You don't need special left-handed versions of items that most people take for granted nor did you have to deal with early-elementary teachers that popped your hands with a ruler when you showed left-handed tendencies.

 

Gay people are in the opposite position: we are a tiny minority (>>10% of the population) and the powers that be would like to ignore our existence completely and deny the need for gay versions of common, day to day accommodations.

Geeze, jump down his throat for using an analogy, which by definition never fits exactly. It think that what Nerotorb was saying is that for him, being gay is just a part of who he is, like handedness or skin, eye, and hair color. I have never sat down and thought "What do I like about having hazel eyes?" That is a very different question from "Do I like having hazel eyes?", or "Why do/don't I like having hazel eyes?".

 

"What do you like about ..." looks beyond liking the thing itself and goes into an analysis of the benefits you receive from said trait that you would not get without said trait. As phrased, it is a weird and generally difficult question once you get past the defining attraction to the same-sex bodily form. However, I think it is an important question to ask simply because self-hatred/dislike is so prevalent.

 

:king: Dr. Mr. Snow :snowy: Dog

[AFriendlyFace]

Not all of us turn into sex addicts!

 

 

 

I don't have a concious desire for sex. Doesn't mean I don't have a sex drive

Edited June 18, 2008 by AFriendlyFace

[steph]

"What do you like about ..." looks beyond liking the thing itself and goes into an analysis of the benefits you receive from said trait that you would not get without said trait. As phrased, it is a weird and generally difficult question once you get past the defining attraction to the same-sex bodily form. However, I think it is an important question to ask simply because self-hatred/dislike is so prevalent.

Good point, Snowy! Self-hatred is built upon feelings of shame and usually creeps up when someone feels s/he cannot change something about themselves, something that is not "appropriate" according to the general society. Did you know that shame can be considered a left-over emotion from the caveman days when an individual's actions affected the security of the group? Back then in cases of valid shame, the person was usually a step away from being thrown out into the wilderness to be eaten by wolves! Now-a-days, we tend to feel shame most often for the wrong reasons. We've jumped from feeling shame over threatening someone's life to feeling shame over threatening someone's perceived quality of life.

[JamesSavik]

Geeze, jump down his throat for using an analogy, which by definition never fits exactly. It think that what Nerotorb was saying is that for him, being gay is just a part of who he is, like handedness or skin, eye, and hair color.

 

 

If I appeared to be jumping down his throat, I didn't mean to. Sorry about that Nerotrob.

[Procyon]

I realize now that I really didn't explain the misogyny part well enough.

 

For one thing, I don't have to see women as stereotypes to be a mysogynist or to not want to have to deal with women. Little things that women have done or have said around me have either offended me or angered me, and it happens quite a lot, but I do realize that shouldn't make me automatically not want to be around women at all, since there are women around me who have never done that

[kitten]

What I like about being gay...

(Is this one of the essay titles you get at school nowadays? When I was at school we got relatively boring titles like 'What I did on my vacation' or 'Why I must stop talking in class'.)

 

Okay....

1) I get to have sex with men without feeling guilty. (I know that lots of str8 guys also have sex with men, but IME they usually feel guilty afterwards)

2) It's like being a member of a select club - I'm not one of those 'average' plebs.

3) Society has fewer expectations about my relationships. i.e. my partner (if I have one) and I can choose to live together, apart, have a commitment ceremony, or none of those things and no one will say 'when are you going to settle down and start a family?'

 

There are other things I like too, but it's after midnight here and way past my bed time.

 

Kit

[Drewbie]

What I like about being gay...

(Is this one of the essay titles you get at school nowadays? When I was at school we got relatively boring titles like 'What I did on my vacation' or 'Why I must stop talking in class'.)

 

Okay....

1) I get to have sex with men without feeling guilty. (I know that lots of str8 guys also have sex with men, but IME they usually feel guilty afterwards)

2) It's like being a member of a select club - I'm not one of those 'average' plebs.

3) Society has fewer expectations about my relationships. i.e. my partner (if I have one) and I can choose to live together, apart, have a commitment ceremony, or none of those things and no one will say 'when are you going to settle down and start a family?'

 

There are other things I like too, but it's after midnight here and way past my bed time.

 

Kit

 

I like this example, I don't feel guilty for being with a guy or having "these feelings".