Reincarnation ?

[old bob]

Gary made a suggestion in another topic (what do you like about being gay) to open a new thread. His question was :

"Is there any empirical evidence to suggest that our former lives play any part in shaping our current life?"

As I was the first to be asked, here my answer :

I trend to believe in the Karma. Through the law of karma, the effects of all deeds actively create past, present, and future experiences, thus making one responsible for one's own life, and the pain and joy it brings to him/her and others. In religions that incorporate reincarnation, karma extends through one's present life and all past and future lives as well.But I'm very prudent in my answer : "why not ?".

Empirical evidence ? No.

I just made twice in my life a strange experience : the first time, I was in a crisis situation, which needed a quick reaction; I felt suddenly that I was "an other". Normally, I'm a pacific person, with a peaceful ego. And it was as if another person had taken control of me, a fighter, merciless, ready to kill, and the people around me didn't recognize me. Later, they asked me : "what happened with you ?" and I couldn't answer.

Another time, I came once for the first time in a town and it seemed to me that I knew some of its streets, as if I had allready been there.

All that doesn't answer your question Gary. But it's an occasion to dream about it .

Old bob

[GaryK]

There are so many different ways to interpret Karma. Much depends upon the particular religion you believe in.

 

The one thing I've never been able to uncover is if our past and future lives can consciously or subconsciously help guide us in our current life.

 

I like to think so. Based on the events you described it seems like it does. Based on my own experiences I get the same feeling.

 

I wish there were some scientific way to quantify things like this. Because of your training you're in a better situation to deal with this problem than I am. All I can do is speculate.

 

Does anyone else have situations they'd like to share with us that might be considered Karma playing an active role in our current lives?

[rknapp]

Gary made a suggestion in another topic (what do you like about being gay) to open a new thread. His question was :

"Is there any empirical evidence to suggest that our former lives play any part in shaping our current life?"

As I was the first to be asked, here my answer :

I trend to believe in the Karma. Through the law of karma, the effects of all deeds actively create past, present, and future experiences, thus making one responsible for one's own life, and the pain and joy it brings to him/her and others. In religions that incorporate reincarnation, karma extends through one's present life and all past and future lives as well.But I'm very prudent in my answer : "why not ?".

Empirical evidence ? No.

I just made twice in my life a strange experience : the first time, I was in a crisis situation, which needed a quick reaction; I felt suddenly that I was "an other". Normally, I'm a pacific person, with a peaceful ego. And it was as if another person had taken control of me, a fighter, merciless, ready to kill, and the people around me didn't recognize me. Later, they asked me : "what happened with you ?" and I couldn't answer.

Another time, I came once for the first time in a town and it seemed to me that I knew some of its streets, as if I had allready been there.

All that doesn't answer your question Gary. But it's an occasion to dream about it .

Old bob

Not to dispute your theory, but the first incident could be explained simply as the crisis situation temporarily lifting you into a previously unknown level. Children have been know to be able to lift heavy objects if the situation was such that the life of their parent was threatened.

 

As for the second one, I would call it de'ja vu. I've had that a lot in the past, where something happens and I feel like it has happened before, in exact detail.

[Graeme]

I know of no empirical evidence for reincarnation. It's possible, but I personally doubt reincarnation exists. I certainly can't prove it one way or another, as it requires the assumption that there is something non-physical that is part of a person, that existed before that person was conceived, and exists after that person has died. I don't know if that assumption is valid.

[AFriendlyFace]

Well I'm an extremely pan-spiritual person.

 

I'm comfortable picking and choosing what I like about each spiritual/religious discipline and applying it in whichever way seems best for the circumstances at hand. As a result I'm extremely open-minded about such things, but also there's a firm skeptical, scientific side of me that discounts much, perhaps even all, or religion and spirituality.

 

Christianity is the religion I 'follow' (although really I often tend to bend it to my will as I see fit ); however, just as I allow it to coexist with my scientific, skeptical side so too do I allow aspects of others faiths and spiritualities to coexist with my Christianity.

 

By nature I don't think there can be or should be empirical, scientific evidence for any religion or spiritual concept. They would lose their 'otherworldliness' and the fundamental things that make them spiritual if this were to be the case (at least in my opinion). By definition 'faith' is something which you cannot know or prove beyond a belief in your heart.

 

Do I believe in reincarnation (or ghosts, angels, ESP, etc.)? I guess I'm a hopeful 'I don't know'. I suppose I wouldn't really be surprised or alarmed either way.

 

Do I think it's happened to me? As in did I have past lives. No, I don't think so, but if I did it would be irrelevant since I don't remember them anyway, and I don't feel as though they impact my current life. Of course they might impact my current life in a way that I cannot be cognizant of. If that's the case it's still largely irrelevant because they're ticking along doing their thing anyway. I think it would be nice if they existed and I had conscious memories of them, failing that I don't suppose I care either way.

 

Anyway remember everyone:

 

Jesus saves and Buddha recycles.

 

 

-Kevin

[Tipdin]

There is no doubt in my mind that we can come back. That our souls or personality, or whatever you want to call it stays in tact after our body dies is a stone cold, hard fact for me.

 

There have been many, many situations in my life that cannot be simply explained away. People that know me and have been around me for any length of time know that weird things just sort of happen around me. Odd things that just don't fit into the 'normal' experience of life.

 

As surely as I breathe air, I know that when I leave this life and body, I will cross over into the arms of all my loved ones that crossed over before me. It is a belief that is like the stones used in the foundation of my house, I can feel it, slap it and kick at it and it will stay right there, immovable and solid. A belief that is ACTUALLY as palpable as stone. Period.

 

How, why, when, all that junk, well, that's all a complete mystery. I don't have a clue about how it all works, I just know that it does.

 

What is within us influences us. The lives we have lived, the people we have know, the knowledge we have had, it's all in there. For the most part, it's locked in there, but some of it can sort of leak out or slip through the cracks and influence our choices or behavior.

 

During the early eighties, I was an AIDS buddy, taking care of men who were dying. I always told my buddy to be sure and look up my family, that they're waiting for him. More than a few times, while my buddy was breathing his last few breaths, I told him to relax, to let my family embrace him, to let them warm and support him, that it was his turn to be carried. That he will be well loved by many.

 

I could feel them. Explain it however you want. Really. There will be no changing my mind so it doesn't matter how you want explain it. They were there. My family, his family, everyone we knew that had already died was there, supporting us. I could feel them. Sometimes it was even physical, I could actually feel warmth and individual hands pressing on me. I could even tell whose hands some of them belonged to.

 

I have seen a man float above his bed, just a few inches, but his body shivered or vibrated so fast, that it seemed to blur as it lifted off his bed. There were only three people in that room but I could feel the crowd that I could not see. I could pick out voices of people I knew who had died years earlier. I could smell my grandmother's perfume. There were a lot of people there that I could not see, but I knew WHO was there. We all felt it.

 

Again, anyone can explain it any which way they want, it will make no difference AT ALL to me. Debate and argue your points until your last breath. My believe is absolute. It cannot be altered. When we die, we're simply moving to a new place, just like when we move from one house or apartment to another. It is that much of a non-issue to me. The act of dying, in itself, means almost nothing at all. Just a change of residence.

[JamesSavik]

We've all been here before

Yesterday and tomorrow the same

all that changes are the faces and names

and the gods that we chose to blame

 

The fire was burning long ago

and we are merely fuel

the river of time has no branches

just a steady flow where nothing is brand new

 

No one can say its destination

We can only hold on for the ride

yesterday was once tomorrow

and soon tomorrow will be yesterday again

 

If you seek a reason,

ignore the lyrics and listen to the song

for tomorrow will be yesterday again

it will not take so long.

[Mark Arbour]

It is the ultimate in human arrogance to imagine that we are so unique and special that we have some mysterious spiritual aspect that retains its character after we die.

 

The world would be a much better place if people acknowledged that when you die, you die, and therefore you should do everything in your power to make a positive difference in THIS world, as opposed to f**king it all up while preparing for the next one.

[SRevol]

According to a material and energy balance, reincarnation doesn

[Sir Galahad]

I don't even believe in God, let alone reincarnation!

[JamesSavik]

you don't need one for the other to be true.

 

the first law of thermodynamics states that energy can not be created or destroyed- it merely changes form. What are we at our most basic essence if not energy?

[old bob]

There is no doubt in my mind that we can come back. That our souls or personality, or whatever you want to call it stays in tact after our body dies is a stone cold, hard fact for me.

........................

Again, anyone can explain it any which way they want, it will make no difference AT ALL to me. Debate and argue your points until your last breath. My believe is absolute. It cannot be altered. When we die, we're simply moving to a new place, just like when we move from one house or apartment to another. It is that much of a non-issue to me. The act of dying, in itself, means almost nothing at all. Just a change of residence.

Wow ! Your faith is wonderful and it makes a life easy to live.

By reading your comment, my fear of dying is fading.

At soon 80, I'm not so far from the time when I will find the right answer to my question. In the meantime, its a consolation to follow your path. Thanks for your words

(very) Old Bob.

[rainyday]

I would agree with the above comments. I believe that when we die we lose our physical body, and take a new form. Now where that form might be, or where we might go after we die I can't answer. I've had way to many things happen in my life to deny the existence of god, and the power of spirituality. Especially because of the medical condition I have. Right now there is absolutely no scientific reason I should be alive at all, but I am. And yes I do believe we are reincarnated in some form, mostly because we are made up of energy, and energy cannot be created or destroyed.

[SRevol]

you don't need one for the other to be true.

 

the first law of thermodynamics states that energy can not be created or destroyed- it merely changes form. What are we at our most basic essence if not energy?

 

I agree!!, are you an engineer?

[JamesSavik]

I agree!!, are you an engineer?

 

At the end of the Cold War I was a scientist. I worked at Oak Ridge and Aberdeen.

 

Like most old war dogs put out to pasture, I'm not sure what I am anymore.

[SRevol]

hahaha i

[writeincode]

It is the ultimate in human arrogance to imagine that we are so unique and special that we have some mysterious spiritual aspect that retains its character after we die.

 

The world would be a much better place if people acknowledged that when you die, you die, and therefore you should do everything in your power to make a positive difference in THIS world, as opposed to f**king it all up while preparing for the next one.

I agree. People like to avoid the accepting inevitability of not existing someday. But I like to avoid lying to myself. Just because something is comforting doesn't make it true.

 

 

edit:although I'd like to make a few rebuttals in this thread I tend to make enemies in this kinda discussion so I'll leave my comment at that.

Edited March 8, 2009 by writeincode

[Sir Galahad]

you don't need one for the other to be true.

 

the first law of thermodynamics states that energy can not be created or destroyed- it merely changes form. What are we at our most basic essence if not energy?

I know, but I tend to be skeptical of most things like this. Energy is one thing, but saying that it goes into another life form is very hard to swallow.

I find it hard to believe that we come back as anything. There's not one snippet of proof that this has ever happened. I mean, yeah, you get these people who claim to have lived before, who get flashbacks under hypnosis, but the human mind, as we all know is very complex. These images are from part of the subjects sub conscious, dream state if you like. It's not something that is real, it's more fantasy than reality.

 

It's like people who believe in ghosts, never in all the time I've studied this has there been a time where I actually believed. Never has a single shred of credible evidence come forward that couldn't be explained as a natural phenomenon.

People who have claimed to have seen them probably have, in there own head! Again the human mind can make you believe almost anything it wants you to if the fear is great enough. Sorry, off topic a wee bit, but the principle is just the same.

[SRevol]

<br />I agree. People like to avoid the accepting inevitability of not existing someday. But I like to avoid lying to myself. Just because something is comforting doesn't make it true.<br /><br /><br />edit:although I'd like to make a few rebuttals in this thread I tend to make enemies in this kinda discussion so I'll leave my comment at that.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

 

I agree!!!, we won

[Krista]

I don't believe in reincarnation. I believe we're alive and then we die, nothing before or after. I do though think it isn't a waste of time to delve into trying to explain or learn about the Afterlife however one believes. Faith is also a strong thing to have for some people so I'll definitely not knock anyone else for their beliefs on the subject.

[JamesSavik]

[Thirdeye]

Well I've never really seen Karma happen, but they only thing close would be reverse Karma. We use to joke that my friend Mike had this. He was good guy, but he was also a lot like House(if you seen the show). He was honest and sarcastic and me and him got along great. I worked with him and he was a manager and he was the guy who wasn't afraid to tell people if their work sucked, and would even tell his bosses when they were messing up. Its also why we had the best sections in the entire state. But he could be an a-hole if someone pissed him off.

 

Anyway now that i've told you about him, it seem like when ever he was just being mike and again a lot like house things were fine. But the times he would help people that maybe he shouldn't help(as in they were lazy, or ignorant) but he did it really because he felt sorry something bad would always happen to him. If he'd let an old lady get infront of him in line at the grocery store, she'd run over his foot. This happen over and over again, it was got to the point he'd do something nice and I'd warn him and somehow it would bite him in the butt by the end of the day.

[KJames]

At the end of the Cold War I was a scientist. I worked at Oak Ridge and Aberdeen.

 

Like most old war dogs put out to pasture, I'm not sure what I am anymore.

 

 

You're simmering in a stew...with an occaisional boilover...

[AFriendlyFace]

edit:although I'd like to make a few rebuttals in this thread I tend to make enemies in this kinda discussion so I'll leave my comment at that.

How prudent and restrained of you!

 

I know, but I tend to be skeptical of most things like this. Energy is one thing, but saying that it goes into another life form is very hard to swallow.

I find it hard to believe that we come back as anything. There's not one snippet of proof that this has ever happened. I mean, yeah, you get these people who claim to have lived before, who get flashbacks under hypnosis, but the human mind, as we all know is very complex. These images are from part of the subjects sub conscious, dream state if you like. It's not something that is real, it's more fantasy than reality.

 

It's like people who believe in ghosts, never in all the time I've studied this has there been a time where I actually believed. Never has a single shred of credible evidence come forward that couldn't be explained as a natural phenomenon.

People who have claimed to have seen them probably have, in there own head! Again the human mind can make you believe almost anything it wants you to if the fear is great enough. Sorry, off topic a wee bit, but the principle is just the same.

This post pretty accurately describes my thoughts on the matter. I like to think anything is possible, but in all honesty I'm more of a skeptic and fall into this line of thought.

 

I don't believe in reincarnation. I believe we're alive and then we die, nothing before or after. I do though think it isn't a waste of time to delve into trying to explain or learn about the Afterlife however one believes. Faith is also a strong thing to have for some people so I'll definitely not knock anyone else for their beliefs on the subject.

Also very reasonable and prudent

 

[Arpeggio]

I believe in reincarnation. I am a very spiritual person, and I definitely believe that once we die, we are reborn.

 

I'm not trying to make anyone angry or upset with me and my religious beliefs, and I usually will never talk about it, but it is part of my faith that when I die, I will be reborn unless I have reached, as Buddha would say, Nirvana. And karma is part of the Wiccan law; whatever you do comes back three fold upon yourself. I believe that until you reached total spiritual enlightement, then you will continue to be born over and over, and bad karma could actually be a reason for being reborn.

 

This is probably not making very much sense, but I can almost see how reincarnation is possible sometimes. There are some people that seem so old for their age, or vice versa. Or there are some people who have amazing talents that never just developed, but was just there. I'd hate to think I am bragging, but I have a talent in music, and it was always there. I'm not a savant or prodigy in it, but I know exactly what to do when I am front of a piano, and it was not something I learned from classes. I could always feel it deep down as if it were a natural part of me.... perhaps a gift that was acquired in another life? Maybe I'm just mathematical and that is where the talent comes from, but I like to think differently.

 

Even if I was wrong and it turns out that when you die, you cease to exist, then I won't care very much because I'm dead after all. Having faith in something is all that matters to me. It makes my days more meaningful and happier

 

But I have never believed in ghosts.

 

-hides-

Edited March 13, 2009 by ArpeGGio