New Hampshire and Maine *UPDATE* New York and DC

[Jack Frost]

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/2...marriage-front/

 

New Hampshire Senate is due to vote Wednesday (today). I have doubts it will pass. Even if does, I think the governor will veto it due to his past statements, although he hasn't decided on this bill yet.

 

Maine is a little brighter. I'd give it a better chance than New Hampshire. I'd be surprised if it's put into a popular vote instead of killing it.

 

*fingers crossed*

Edited May 15, 2009 by Jack Frost

[W_L]

I doubt New Hampshire, too, but Maine maybe.

 

New Hampshire is the most conservative state in New England, so it's going to be interesting.

[rknapp]

Marty Rouse, national field director of the gay rights group Human Rights Campaign, predicted that in addition to New Hampshire and Maine, two more states will approve same-sex marriage before the end of the year

[W_L]

IT PASSED

 

13-11

 

New Hampshire Senate passed Same Sex marriage

 

Another site to confirm:

 

Reuters: NH senate passed same sex marriage

 

This is monumental, yes the governor has a high probability of vetoing down the measure, but it says something. Gay rights is no longer a pipe dream; it is fully attainable. The issue now is strategy, what is the next steps.

 

Conservative New Hampshire as I said is the role model for a mid-west campaign and eventually a southern campaign to gain gay equality. The state Senate victory is surprising and powerful statement. New Hampshire is winnable and a tossed up battleground, where it was once considered the bedrock of the north.

 

Now onto Maine.

[Jack Frost]

And now let's add Maine Senate.

 

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...S0104/904309912

 

It passed 21-14. It'll be sent to the House where it will take up the bill Tuesday after a little weekend break.

[Benji]

................Dawn appears to be brighter for human rights

[W_L]

With possibility of New Hampshire surrounded by pro-gay rights' states, Lynch, being a democrat, will have a tougher veto against the pressure that he may be facing within his party and outside with his neighboring states.

 

If he does sign it into law and Maine succeeds with their House vote, then we have an interesting new center of gay rights here in the northeast.

[Graeme]

If he does sign it into law and Maine succeeds with their House vote, then we have an interesting new center of gay rights here in the northeast.

The New York Times article I just read implied that if he doesn't veto it, he's more likely to let it become law without signing it. I don't know what the significance of that is, but if it becomes law, it becomes law.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Graeme

[W_L]

The New York Times article I just read implied that if he doesn't veto it, he's more likely to let it become law without signing it. I don't know what the significance of that is, but if it becomes law, it becomes law.

 

It's a silent protest and acceptance in American politics. If he is forced by party bosses and his geopolitical position to say yes, but he does not like it and wants to keep face on his platforms in the next election, then he could theoretically go with a passive acceptance and later on say he didn't like it or if it goes well in public opinion polls, he could rehash and say "I approved it". Yet, both would be correct assessments.

 

American politics like any democratic nation has little nods everywhere.

 

If he does nothing and let it pass, then he gains party support and possibly join his neighboring New England governors in reaping certain rewards.

 

If he signs it openly, he would gain enemies with the states old hardcore group and possibly harm relations with moderates that have given him victory in last two elections.

 

If he vetoes it, then he might incur the wrath of party bosses and gay rights' groups, who will surround his state and harm his already tenuous situation due to the drop in land tax revenues and the lack of sales tax, so his only other state sources of revenues are use and excise taxes. One reason why he will be in a difficult situation is that he needs his fellow New Englanders support to keep New Hampshire strong fiscally due to collapsed land tax revenue.

 

Thus:

 

More gay friendly New England states + one hold out state in New Hampshire = Financial ruin for New Hampshire and Lynch's own unseating. He needs the Democrats and he also needs the goodwill of his surrounding states. However, he can't say no to moderate conservatives and Hardcore Conservatives.

[Jack Frost]

It passed Maine House. All it needs to do is get it approved by the Senate tomorrow once more before heading the governor's desk. He will have ten days to decide what to do with it. Veto. Sign. Or let it pass without a veto or signature.

 

New Hampshire House will vote tomorrow as well and sending it to the governor.

 

On a sidenote, DC council approved the bill to recognize gay marriages performed anywhere outside the District. So far, the Congress and President are quite mum on this. Pelosi thinks the Congress should not meddle in decisions made by the District. This means it's unlikely the Congress will do anything with Pelosi refusing to put it up to vote. The House, Senate, and President all need to approve to override the DC bill. Otherwise it automatically becomes a law in 30 days.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Jack Frost

[Benji]

It passed Maine House. All it needs to do is get it approved by the Senate tomorrow once more before heading the governor's desk. He will have ten days to decide what to do with it. Veto. Sign. Or let it pass without a veto or signature.

 

New Hampshire House will vote tomorrow as well and sending it to the governor.

 

On a sidenote, DC council approved the bill to recognize gay marriages performed anywhere outside the District. So far, the Congress and President are quite mum on this. Pelosi thinks the Congress should not meddle in decisions made by the District. This means it's unlikely the Congress will do anything with Pelosi refusing to put it up to vote. The House, Senate, and President all need to approve to override the DC bill. Otherwise it automatically becomes a law in 30 days.

 

.........The Senate passed it (Maine) it's up to the Governor now!

[Mark Arbour]

.........The Senate passed it (Maine) it's up to the Governor now!

 

And he signed it! Way to go Maine!

[Benji]

And he signed it! Way to go Maine!

 

........I don't remember if NH Governor signed their bill or not, does anyone know?

[W_L]

Maine signed, now it's New Hampshire.

 

Confirmation of Mark's happy Shout!

 

5th state to approve gay marriage

 

Horray!

[Rigel]

The New Hampshire legislature passed its law in final form today (the House had to pass a version today in harmony with the Senate's bill with its latest tweaks--for example, the original exempted "ministers of the gospel" from having to perform marriages against their churches' teachings, the revisions made provisions for rabbis and other religious institutions that don't have gospel ministers, including Quakers).

 

Now it goes to Governor Lynch, who has 10 days to either veto it, sign it, or not sign it, in which case it becomes law in 10 days without his signature.

 

--Rigel

[Benji]

The New Hampshire legislature passed its law in final form today (the House had to pass a version today in harmony with the Senate's bill with its latest tweaks--for example, the original exempted "ministers of the gospel" from having to perform marriages against their churches' teachings, the revisions made provisions for rabbis and other religious institutions that don't have gospel ministers, including Quakers).

 

Now it goes to Governor Lynch, who has 10 days to either veto it, sign it, or not sign it, in which case it becomes law in 10 days without his signature.

 

--Rigel

 

 

........Thanks for the info, I was getting a bit confused and without media attention to bear the facts upon.

[W_L]

It's better not to have huge fanfare.

 

CNN did not record the victories immediately or with much attention either and the national anti-gay movement is not reciprocating as quickly without the fanfare. Luckily, I think they are giving up the northeast, which in turn means the mid-west might become the real battleground soon.

[Rigel]

The national press are mainly concentrating on the Maine story, since it includes a governor's signature and has been enacted into law (barring the possibility/probability of a "people's veto" referendum. Such a referendum might well get on the ballot, but it might well not pass, given the temperament of most Mainers I know; if it DOES get on the ballot, it will delay the start date of the law whether it passes or not). To find out real details about the New Hampshire goings on, you'll need to google for an in-state source, or at least a news medium catering to New Hampshirites. (It''s a small state geographically, so many of the television and radio stations are across the border in neighboring states.)

 

--Rigel

[Benji]

The national press are mainly concentrating on the Maine story, since it includes a governor's signature and has been enacted into law (barring the possibility/probability of a "people's veto" referendum. Such a referendum might well get on the ballot, but it might well not pass, given the temperament of most Mainers I know; if it DOES get on the ballot, it will delay the start date of the law whether it passes or not). To find out real details about the New Hampshire goings on, you'll need to google for an in-state source, or at least a news medium catering to New Hampshirites. (It''s a small state geographically, so many of the television and radio stations are across the border in neighboring states.)

 

--Rigel

 

.........So your saying even though it was passed by both houses and signed into law by the Governor, it can still be an issue before the voters at a certain time in the future?

[W_L]

The hard part has already passed.

 

The next deal is whether they can get the signatures; I think the proximity to Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Vermont will keep any political battle fair in Maine and New Hampshire due to the financial and grass root limitations on the anti-gay marriage coalition.

[Rigel]

Benji--

 

In Maine, the anti-gay forces will have about three months from the time the legislature adjourns to gather some 55,000 signatures to force a referendum, a process sometimes referred to informally as a "poeple's veto." If enough valid signatures are gathered, the law's implementation will be postponed, and it will be voted upon in a referendum, perhaps in November 2009, or perhaps June 2010. A majority vote in the referendum could overturn the law. I'm optimistic that under a referendum, gay marriage would be upheld in Maine--several years ago Mainers defeated a referendum attempt to repeal a bill which prohibited discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. The liberals in Maine would be in favor of gay marriage, and New England conservatives tend to be libertarians rather than social conservatives imposing their interpretation of religion on other people. In previous centuries, New England was a battleground between Protestants and Catholics, both of whom are plentiful in the populace, and because of that, the inhabitants are acutely aware of the dangers of imposing religious dogma on others. If the referendum is defeated, it will also have an impact on anti-gay forces in the rest of the country, because it will amount to popular approval of gay marriage, or at least, it will be spun that way. It could also give momentum to a ballot initiative to overturn Proposition 8 in California, if such a referendum is necessary to restore gay marriage to the Golden State.

 

No such referendum is possible in New Hampshire.

 

 

--Rgel

[Jack Frost]

Rigel summed it all.

 

All I have to say...

 

WOOT! Go Maine!

 

Frankly, I'm surprised how *fast* it went there to pass such bill.

 

 

 

The voters seem to be quite split and I personally don't know if it will pass or not. I think it's quite a toss-up.

[W_L]

Rigel summed it all.

 

All I have to say...

 

WOOT! Go Maine!

 

Frankly, I'm surprised how *fast* it went there to pass such bill.

 

 

 

The voters seem to be quite split and I personally don't know if it will pass or not. I think it's quite a toss-up.

 

New Hampshire is the only one with any amount of great doubt. Maine should be fine.

 

New Hampshire is a weird mix of Libertarian principles and the state motto is "live free or die", my favorite state motto.

[Jack Frost]

The same could be said for all New England actually.

 

I was in Vermont (in Montpelier where my friend lives) for a few days and my friend took me a club in Burlington where people celebrated the marriage victory. Got myself a pin as a souvenir.

 

I love New England. I should actually visit NH instead of looking at it across the Connecticut River in Vermont. I wanted my friend to take me there so I can get a pack of cigarettes for $4 instead of $7.50 in Vermont. >.<

 

Same thing for Maine... Only saw it from across the river border from Edmundston, New Brunswick.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Jack Frost

[Drewbie]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090507/ap_on_...age_new_england