Implicitely Gay/bi fictional characters

[W_L]

There are many male and female characters, who form very deep and long lasting bonds with a character of the same sex.

 

However, does that mean they were gay or bi?

 

I thought about this as I watched Midnight Cowboy, there was clear implied indication that they might have been gay. However, it was never mentioned in the movie explicitly only implied.

 

There are some characters like the Hobbits of Lord of the Rings, who have more in common with gay couples than heterosexual. However, there is no indication that they were gay or bisexual either.

 

Is there a way to know whether it is true implication or just a close bond?

[Toast]

Most authors want reader involvement in the story. What is not told the reader gets to decide. Want gay, you have it. It is why books can be special to various individuals. Is that a start?

[MikeL]

Wen, I agree with you on Midnight Cowboy; there was a pretty strong indication of a gay relationship.

 

As for your main question, I don't know any way to be sure of characters' sexual orientation in books or movies. Hollywood in particular often makes characters rather nebulous, and does so purposely I think.

 

I also think you can't be certain in many real life situations. I have a number of really close friends who wouldn't think twice about about hugging each other in public. A casual observer, especially a gay person, could easily jump to the wrong conclusion. My friends, especially college fraternity brothers, are a close knit group. Occasionally; I will see one I haven't seen in 45 years; we will certainly hug each other. This sort of greeting is becoming more important as we are losing more friends each year. You never know when the next funeral will be. To my knowledge, none of these friends is gay. At this point, I doubt that would matter.

[W_L]

I can understand storytelling ambiguity to protect the author, but there are ambiguous characters, who you wish will have a happy ending with that "special guy" or "special girl".

 

Another two movies I forgot to add,

 

"My own private Idaho", I want to believe that at the end of the movie Keanu Reeves will end up with Phoenix, but the movie left their sexual and emotional reality in disarray. I want a happy ending, not a sad ending for the main character.

 

"Thelma and Louise", you get this feeling that these two women deserve each other after being through so much crap from the world. I think they were not lesbians or thought of themselves as bisexuals at the start of the movie, but there was a connection and strong bond that transcended those labels by the end. I think the jury is out on this one as both have had relations with men; yet remain faithful to each other until the end. The possible "best bisexual couple ever" title might belong to this movie.

[Toast]

I saw Midnight Cowboy in 1968 when I was 18. You had to be 18 to see it. My Own Private Idaho is a favorite. T&L, I liked, but the ending left me feeling split. What do you think of Cruising, the 1980 film with Al Pacino? I like bittersweet endings. I like confusing endings. I don't like contrived, either happy or sad. Very few films let gay characters be happy. Have seen movies with only straight characters and wished they would have a gay revelation.

[BlueSoxSWJ]

In High School Musical 2 there's a pretty implicit hook-up between Chad Danforth (Corbin Bleu) and Ryan Evans (Lucas Grabeel) - in the scene after the song "I Don't Dance" (check out the lyrics and tell me that's not a metaphor for being bi-curious), the two characters have exchanged outfits.

 

Disney movies in general can sometimes abound with implicitly gay characters - my fraternity watched the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy with "implicit gay couple" as a drinking rule, and it was one of the most common ones called.

[Cia]

In High School Musical 2 there's a pretty implicit hook-up between Chad Danforth (Corbin Bleu) and Ryan Evans (Lucas Grabeel) - in the scene after the song "I Don't Dance" (check out the lyrics and tell me that's not a metaphor for being bi-curious), the two characters have exchanged outfits.

 

Disney movies in general can sometimes abound with implicitly gay characters - my fraternity watched the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy with "implicit gay couple" as a drinking rule, and it was one of the most common ones called.

 

 

LOL, I never thought about that song with those connontations before. I have to agree, Disney is full of dirty dirty minds. Just look at all the "errors" that have made it into movies/cover art! We had the original Little Mermaid movie case, that was hilarious.

[NightOwl88]

 

There are some characters like the Hobbits of Lord of the Rings, who have more in common with gay couples than heterosexual. However, there is no indication that they were gay or bisexual either.

 

Is there a way to know whether it is true implication or just a close bond?

 

 

I'm really glad someone else has a similer thought on that, as I was starting to feel VERY awkward for that thought lol.

 

If you look closely enough Disney is pretty dirty, i can't site a detailed example without looking it up again but you can find a lot of homoerotic subtexts if you close enough.

[glomph]

I think we're supposed to assume that Ryan is gay. He certainly fits enough stereotypes, and in case you had any doubt, they dress him in pink. I didn't read quite that much into the baseball/don't dance number, and I didn't see an implied hookup with Chad, but I didn't watch the movie that closely when it was on TV.

 

It's not as obvious as "My robe, Antoninus. My taste includes both snails and oysters."

[W_L]

I'm really glad someone else has a similer thought on that, as I was starting to feel VERY awkward for that thought lol.

 

If you look closely enough Disney is pretty dirty, i can't site a detailed example without looking it up again but you can find a lot of homoerotic subtexts if you close enough.

 

It's not sam and Frodo either, if you have the extended version of the Return of the king, then you see a touching scene of Merry and Pippen too.

 

My favorite line from them,

 

Merry: I knew you will find me

Pippen: Yes

Merry: Are you going to leave me (again)?

Pippen: No Merry I'm gonna look after you.

 

(Scene ends with Pippen embracing Merry)

 

Tolkien calls it a close bond between men in war, but I think that an interesting sexual aspect is also apparent underneath it.

[Nephylim]

Homosexuality was illegal in the UK until 1967 so much of the time he was writing the notes etc for the book it was under the cloud of the law. He would not therefore have made any gay characters explicit. There was a lot of talk about homosexuality in the trenches during the first world war and more so in the second. It very well may be that 'the close bond between men in war' was an euphamism

[W_L]

You know what happened to Merry and Pippin after the war in the books; they get married to female hobbits and had kids, but during their last few years of life, they left the shire again together and spent their final days with each other.

 

When they died, they were buried alongside each other, not their wives. (Tolkien was either hinting or their's something fishy about hobbits)

 

I don't know, it sounds romantic to me, but then I am not a hobbit.

[NightOwl88]

You know what happened to Merry and Pippin after the war in the books; they get married to female hobbits and had kids, but during their last few years of life, they left the shire again together and spent their final days with each other.

 

When they died, they were buried alongside each other, not their wives. (Tolkien was either hinting or their's something fishy about hobbits)

 

I don't know, it sounds romantic to me, but then I am not a hobbit.

 

 

I remember that, The Lord of the Rings is one of my favorite series. Tolkien drew on a lot of old legend and fact when he wrote the series, especially where the culture of the Shire was concerned. Before homsexuality came to be regarded as immoral it was quite common place in the old Roman, Greek, Sumerian, and Celtic tribes. Women had their place in the tribes/villiages as did men and children. It wasn't uncommon for Men and Women to develop close, loving bonds even if married to a member of the opposite sex it was actually encouraged to strengthen the bonds of the tribes/villages.

 

I guess thats just my take on it.

 

NightOwl88

[Cia]

Yeah, back in the good ole days before we all became repressed, uptight and too damn nosy about other people's private business. Anyone notice how society's views on the individual's right to freedom to be who they are actually became worse as we "progressed" into modern society? We are just now starting to realize non-conformity isn't a crime against nature!! I hope that we can return to those "enlightened" times.

[Nephylim]

Me too