So here's what I know about gay fiction ebooks

[Hoskins]

1. All ebook covers have the same three ripped, shaped and cut men in different poses. In some cases I think they're shooping the body parts around too

 

2. The vast majority of the gay fiction ebook market is homoerotic porn. Also werewolf, vampire, dragon, and alien on man porn. There's not a lot of plot is what I'm saying

 

3. it's just weird to fap to a pdf document, the Adobe logo like stares back at you or something

 

4. If you pay $1.85 for an ebook, expect a certain level of "quality"

 

5. If you pay $7.95 for an ebook... who am I kidding?

 

6. There are a number of ebook publishing houses. I think they're all in the same basement somewhere but there is a wide, wide range in quality. With some, there are more typos and bad editing than you'd see anywhere in GA- land. You'd think they'd have some beta readers...

 

7. The soundtrack that you hear in your head when you read these ebooks is sometimes "Wildfire" and sometimes "musak" and sometimes it's just bad porn disco

 

8. It looks to me, in all seriousness, that ebooks might be a good way for GA authors who want to make a dime or two off their work to get published for cheap. In at least one case - "The Good Thief" - I know I've read the story online somewhere but I'll be damned if I know where.

 

9. Here are some Barnes and Noble ebook search results

[Gregoire]

Yeah, there's definitely a quality control issue when it comes to gay fiction anywhere else on the net.

[Rilbur]

4. If you pay $1.85 for an ebook, expect a certain level of "quality"

 

5. If you pay $7.95 for an ebook... who am I kidding?

 

What makes these lines rather amusing is the fact that, with 'The End' of one of my stories coming up, I'm considering acting on the 'when are you going to publish' type questions I keep getting... and 2$ for the e-book version, when a free web version is available elsewhere, seems just about 'right'! (Though I'm actually focusing on getting a print-on-demand physical copy for people who want that)

Edited May 12, 2010 by Rilbur

[Amelia]

Despite the often poor quality, I am a bit addicted. I have more than 40 if anyone would like to use the lend function and borrow some!

[Y_B]

Another quirk with gay fiction is that many tend to centralize the entire work on the fact that it's "gay" and base the whole story off something gay or something inherently linked to gay things. Like a coming out story, a self-discovery story, a lifestyle story. I don't recall reading a regular novel and read about character coming out as straight or keep his/her heterosexuality as the main theme. There are actually things happening that grabs the readers attention.

 

So it gets boring after a while.

 

So it's why I think most are the same, because they are all Teenage Melodramatic Sisterhood of the Traveling Panties type story.

 

I could be wrong, because I don't read enough.

[Tipdin]

I have noticed the same thing with 'gay' books.

 

It would be nice to find good plots that happen to have gay people involved, not just lame excuses to write bad porn scenes.

[Adam Phillips]

Another quirk with gay fiction is that many tend to centralize the entire work on the fact that it's "gay" and base the whole story off something gay or something inherently linked to gay things. Like a coming out story, a self-discovery story, a lifestyle story. I don't recall reading a regular novel and read about character coming out as straight or keep his/her heterosexuality as the main theme. There are actually things happening that grabs the readers attention.

 

So it gets boring after a while.

 

So it's why I think most are the same, because they are all Teenage Melodramatic Sisterhood of the Traveling Panties type story.

 

I could be wrong, because I don't read enough.

 

I think you're wrong--just expressing my opinion--but it's not because you don't read enough.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your assessment of this aspect of "gay fiction." It's just that many published books fall into specific genres; there is such a thing as what you're calling a "regular novel," one that doesn't seem to fall into any given niche, but I'll bet that various kinds of "genre fiction" actually outsell "regular novels."

 

You know what I'm talking about: Romance novels. Mystery stories/whodunits. Westerns. Fantasy/Sword & Sorcery. Horror. Etc.

 

Each of those genres circumscribes, to a greater or lesser extent, the range of plot and theme available to a writer within the genre. Readers of books within those specific genres are interested in having typical themes explored, and the author works within the confines of those interests; it's likely he or she shares the interest or he wouldn't be writing in that genre. Unless he/she's merely making big bucks, which isn't likely.

 

I don't see a thing wrong with that. Just because a novel qualifies as a "genre" novel doesn't mean it's inherently bad.

 

The same thing is true of gay fiction. Just because it explores endless variations on the theme of "coming out," for example, doesn't mean it's bad. And just because it explores endless variations on the theme of "coming out" doesn't mean it has to be boring. I'm not even particularly opposed to gay (or straight) erotica. There's always a place for hi-quality written porn. What becomes boring, in my opinion, is when a person reads in only one genre. Then you'd expect to become bored after a while.

 

And as for the notion that "gay fiction" would be somehow improved if it told stories not centered around the gayness of this character or that...well, then it wouldn't be "gay fiction," would it? It would just be what you're referring to as a "regular novel." For a story to have a gay character doesn't mean it's gay fiction. There are many novels out there that have gay characters but that doesn't make them gay fiction. Just as the presence of romance in a novel doesn't make it a "romance novel." Now if you mean that a novel should have a gay protagonist and tell a story about that person, but not one in which his or her gayness is central to the narrative, I think I'd agree that it would be nice to have more stories like that. Personally, I'd like to see that kind of thing involving a bisexual protagonist, but we won't go there, LOL. Still, I'd have to say that in my opinion that would not be gay fiction. That would just be a "regular novel."

 

None of this has anything to do, I should say, with the quality of gay fiction out there, ebook or otherwise. And I'll agree that, with some significant exceptions, the quality is dreadful. I've enjoyed Steve Kluger's work immensely. I also love J. G Hayes, although he's not everybody's cup of tea. Jamie O'Neill's At Swim, Two Boys--which, by the way, is available in Kindle format--is some of the finest writing I've seen in any genre, and it's a gay love story. And in my opinion, Jim Grimsley's Dream Boy is a small miracle.

 

But then there are writers out there--too many writers--like Mark Roeder...

[Jamie de Valen]

So if I write a novel that features as my central character for example a gay character (like a gay police detective solving crimes) and possibly discuss some of his life, maybe even his love life or the relationship between him and his BF, but don't bring it into the bedroom or make the story 100% gay themed, I've NOT written a gay novel?

 

What if the gay police detective is working on a serial killer murdering gay men or the investigation of gay bashing or sex crimes... does that qualify??

[Adam Phillips]

So if I write a novel that features as my central character for example a gay character (like a gay police detective solving crimes) and possibly discuss some of his life, maybe even his love life or the relationship between him and his BF, but don't bring it into the bedroom or make the story 100% gay themed, I've NOT written a gay novel?

 

What if the gay police detective is working on a serial killer murdering gay men or the investigation of gay bashing or sex crimes... does that qualify??

 

As is so often the case with any kinds of attempt to categorize, a person can always find good reasons to question the accuracy of any proposal to define a category.

 

Your examples are good ones. There's a sense which the character's sexual orientation in such an example is critical to the narrative. But if we're to take examples like that, then do we categorize every narrative by the salient characteristics of its main character? Do we make separate literary categories for each? Are there to be left-handed novels, or ADD novels, or black novels, or sailor novels, or architect novels? I ask because as I thought about it, it didn't seem to me that a story like Jim Grimsley's Dream Boy, which is explicitly about a couple of adolescents coming to grips with their sexuality, had a whole lot in common with a story like the one you propose. Is it correct to lump them both into the category of "gay novels"? Or, more to the point, is anything to be gained, either conceptually or in any other way, by putting them together in the same category of "gay novels"? They're very, very different.

 

It's an interesting set of questions, though, and everybody would probably make the call differently. I think if I were responsible for shelving these things in some imaginary bookstore I'd put the novel about the gay detective in a different place from novels that deal with characters working through their sexuality as the main narrative. I'd probably put them with "crime fiction" or something of the sort. Either that, or I'd put all narrative fiction in a "fiction" section and not make an attempt to categorize. In any case, it does seem easier, somehow, to separate out romance fiction, for example, or "fantasy," as distinct genres, than it does to separate out "gay fiction." Romance can easily be seen as a recognizable "type," because "romance" is not an individual's characteristic and can easily serve as a unifying theme for stories which proceed somewhat similarly, simply because there are things that "romance" embodies that are common to many, if not most, romances in "real life." "Fantasy" is similar in that regard, although there the range seems larger. But "gay" is a personal trait that doesn't say anything inherent about what the story's going to do, and the potential range seems so wide, so undetermined, that one begins to wonder what qualifies a novel as a "gay novel." "Gay coming-out fiction" is more of a recognizable genre, seems to me. Likewise "gay coming-of-age." Those seem easier to peg. What would the necessary baseline ingredients be for something to be called a "gay novel" rather than just considering it a "regular novel" that features a gay character whose gayness may in fact be significant in the story?

 

Thanks for the thought-provoking question.

[Jamie de Valen]

In the process of getting the PhD in Linguistics I had to think long and hard about logic, language and it's structure and development.Then when I did the post-doc in Applied Linguistics I had to inject theory into the world of everyday reality dealing with living language.

 

As you well know, in the EU we have quite a few languages and I'm constantly working with my translators on many a thorny issue in translation and more importantly the interpretation of that translation. Legislation made in a world where many languages is a reality, is more than a challenge it's critical to cohesive government. I also grapple with these issues in the university classroom with the students in my seminar group in what sometimes can seem a polyglot's nightmare.

 

The question of defining something can be critical to many endeavors from the geo-political to the medical and ethical (pro-choice vspro-abortion, pro-life, vs anti-abortion). Even in my own life if I talk about being gay, the issue of being an openly gay man living in the modern developed world is constantly being defined by language, both my own and others. Every time I publically assert my sexuality to my friends, colleagues or students I'm being judged, weighed and defined – much like the books we are talking about in this thread. In some cases I try to make that definition a self-definition, but society in general and often anti-gay society in particular doesn't always choose to agree with me. What are my choices? Sometimes… rather limited I think you would agree.

 

Likewise the definition of literary genre's can be quite broad or narrow. Can there be left-handed novels, ADD novels, black novels, sailor novel as you interestingly ask? I would argue that it depends on how you want to define them. You could. It's certainly not farfetched nor does it fall out of the purview and the realm of dynamic and living language. Or even literary language. It may also depend on how the writer defines them; that is, if we care or even respect the writer's own opinion. It can also depends on how the target reading audience and even the general public defines them – possibly all in very different ways.

 

Let's take Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita for example? How would we define it? When it first came out its subject titillated, and libraries that were courageous enough to put it on their shelves discovered an interesting phenomena… all the books that so quickly rushed off the shelf, rushed back even quicker. Curiously they had dirt and dog-eared edges on the first few pages… the rest remained unread. The public was disappointed that it wasn't what they thought it was. That Nabokov wrote it incorporating three languages: English, French, and Russian and then used jokes, puns word plays and double entendres in all three languages left most people clueless. It's listed in Time Magazine's 100 Best English-language Novels from 1923 to 2005 as one of the salient hundred of its time period. It's also fourth on the Modern Library's 1998 100 Best Novels of the 20th century. So they agree it's a novel… some even say modern novel.But could it also be called a romantic novel, pornographic novel, or pederasticnovel? Others have called it a tragicomedy (akin to modern TV docudrama's). Some scholars categorize it as an anti-totalitarian novel. Still others have claimed that it was a novel embodying Solipsism. Which one is it? Am I making my point?

 

Sometimes it's easy to define a work in a certain genre... other times it may be much more difficult and lead to honest disagreement. We all know words are important… sometimes deadly important.

 

There is a whole village here in Europe that was murdered in the 12^th century because they spoke the wrong language. Their conquerors went around and asked them to say 3 words… if they replied with the wrong accent they were killed on the spot.

 

In today's world if we are talking about writing a work within a specific genre, I think that argument also has to be examined from both a personal (the writer's POV) and a commercial (the publisher's POV). I can define my work however I choose, but if it gets tapped for publication, I think part of the argument is going to be decided by enterprise. The publisher will determine how they want to market the book. And of course the profit motive will be called into play. Harry Potter started off as a children's book… did it end that way? I question that, especially when Scholastic published an adult version with different (read less juvenile) cover art.

 

Then of course there are the self-appointed censors that will chose to have it banned or not. And if I take your example of being the owner of a bookshop into consideration, I'm going to have to deal with you and thousands of other shop owners who may shelf my book in a part of the store I would vehemently disagree with. Some may even set it next to the pornography, just because my main character is gay… even though he never has graphic sex in the span of the work. And how am I going to police that one? By visiting every book shop in the world that carries my work? Hardly practical or even possible.

 

I've even spoken to amateur writers who've posted their stories on sites like Nifty and had their work placed in a category that they as the writer disagreed with.

 

Some writers will define their own work and will vehemently disagree with a categorization they feel is foisted on them. Others may not be as sensitive.

 

As this thread started with the question of e-fiction and some of the comments as to gay fiction, then I feel that to conclude I would say that I do write gay-themed fiction. Just because it is not overtly pornographic (and I question the statement about needing 'good' porn) or it's not 'gay' enough for some people, doesn't make it any less important to me in what I feel is my contribution (small and insignificant though it be) to the genre. I feel strongly that there is room in the world of gay fiction for works that show us as we are, sans stereotypes and the constant angst, self-loathing or outright hatred that some feel need to populate the genre.

 

I live a good life. I'm out and my gayness is a central part of who I am. But if I write about my own life and the live of the gay community around me it's certainly not going to be like some of the stories we are often exposed to. That there are still major issues in the gay community that need addressed is quite clear, but there is room for other voices and other ways of writing that can still be classified as gay literature and gay life in a positive light or one that shows characters acting in a normal every day way (what ever that is) can also be critically important. Just as important as those dealing with abuse or suicide. We can't put them on a balance and weigh one against the other.

 

My two and ½ euro cents…

 

And thank you also for you above and interesting response to my earlier question.

Jamie De Valèn

[Adam Phillips]

 

My two and

[Jamie de Valen]

You may be right about where some of this thread belongs... I agree. Although at this point I've said my piece. I personally don't have anything more to add. It can be moved to where ever.

[Adam Phillips]

In the process of getting the PhD in Linguistics I had to think long and hard about logic, language and its structure and development.Then when I did the post-doc in Applied Linguistics I had to inject theory into the world of everyday reality dealing with living language.

 

 

Jamie De Val

[Elias Rosine]

You should check out Kyell Gold. He writes Gay Furry erotic fiction novels that actually have very good plots. Check out Out of Position. :3

[Former Member]

I think it really depends on the publishing house. Some publishers do just about any kind of e-book, and you have to shift through the drivel, but generalizations of all e-books, covers, or anything else...I don't agree that, because I've seen different than that often enough, as Adam Phillips said.

 

Tipdin again is so spot on. "Gay" is popular today, m/m romance/erotica and many are trying to jump on the parade float. I don't really know how to formulate my thought on this but I say this:

 

I read a lot anyway. Always have, always will, online or hard copies. I especially enjoy whatever I am reading if they have a positive or at least believable gay character in it. I don't want to read a story which is just a gay "type". But, as the OP suggested, I don't read anything so I can fap. I want an outstanding story with just might involve gay characters or reflect gay life, but I would rather read otherwise, if it's only going to be about sex or stories twisted just to be considered "gay".

[wacko9001]

1. All ebook covers have the same three ripped, shaped and cut men in different poses. In some cases I think they're shooping the body parts around too

 

2. The vast majority of the gay fiction ebook market is homoerotic porn. Also werewolf, vampire, dragon, and alien on man porn. There's not a lot of plot is what I'm saying

 

3. it's just weird to fap to a pdf document, the Adobe logo like stares back at you or something

 

4. If you pay $1.85 for an ebook, expect a certain level of "quality"

 

5. If you pay $7.95 for an ebook... who am I kidding?

 

6. There are a number of ebook publishing houses. I think they're all in the same basement somewhere but there is a wide, wide range in quality. With some, there are more typos and bad editing than you'd see anywhere in GA- land. You'd think they'd have some beta readers...

 

7. The soundtrack that you hear in your head when you read these ebooks is sometimes "Wildfire" and sometimes "musak" and sometimes it's just bad porn disco

 

8. It looks to me, in all seriousness, that ebooks might be a good way for GA authors who want to make a dime or two off their work to get published for cheap. In at least one case - "The Good Thief" - I know I've read the story online somewhere but I'll be damned if I know where.

 

9. Here are some Barnes and Noble ebook search results

wow... Just wow... that made my day, because i noticed the same exact things

[Lugh]

heh I've been "suggesting" GA publish for a while.... no takers yet.

[John Galaor]

1. All ebook covers have the same three ripped, shaped and cut men in different poses. In some cases I think they're shooping the body parts around too

 

2. The vast majority of the gay fiction ebook market is homoerotic porn. Also werewolf, vampire, dragon, and alien on man porn. There's not a lot of plot is what I'm saying

 

3. it's just weird to fap to a pdf document, the Adobe logo like stares back at you or something

 

4. If you pay $1.85 for an ebook, expect a certain level of "quality"

 

5. If you pay $7.95 for an ebook... who am I kidding?

 

6. There are a number of ebook publishing houses. I think they're all in the same basement somewhere but there is a wide, wide range in quality. With some, there are more typos and bad editing than you'd see anywhere in GA- land. You'd think they'd have some beta readers...

 

7. The soundtrack that you hear in your head when you read these ebooks is sometimes "Wildfire" and sometimes "musak" and sometimes it's just bad porn disco

 

8. It looks to me, in all seriousness, that ebooks might be a good way for GA authors who want to make a dime or two off their work to get published for cheap. In at least one case - "The Good Thief" - I know I've read the story online somewhere but I'll be damned if I know where.

 

9. Here are some Barnes and Noble ebook search results

 

There is always a question hanging from a thin thread, "What is quality in a novel?"

Let's take as an extreme example Shakespeare, yeah, the real Shakespeare.

Let's imagine for a while any of his works is a model of real quality.

Or just imagine Jane Austen, or Mary Shelley, or any of greats, then we can call them exquisite or excellent writers, or poets, or whatever. But it is clear to me that the tastes of today's readers are not educated to tread by the same pathways their Victorian readers trod. Or in the case of Shakespeare, we cannot to tread the same paths Elizabethan readers trod; in this case to watch their theatrical stories or the most important thing, to understand them fully.

 

Then, have we enough readers today to write like the Bronte Sisters? Would be there a publisher daring to bet in printing a novel from a contemporary author who would be writing in the style of 19 century?

 

Then, our education, the permitted readings we did when we were adolescents... has so much rigidly formatted our minds, that we cannot trespass the Victorian corsets meant to control literature.

I do not think highly of the morality of Victorian times. It was mostly a façade, a fake structure of houses representing a street, like in the movies of Hollywood. It was all a mere appearance of virtue. I can accept that "perhaps" we cannot have a honest society without all this priggishness, all this hypocrisy. I am not totally sure we can live with an honest glance at what is really hidden behind this front of virtue and sanctimony.

 

Anyway, "what is quality?" Some works from early 20 century have its prestige won because they challenged the laws against obscenity. I got in my hands Ulysses from Joyce, and I could not read it. I got in my hands some books from Proust, and I could not read even a mere page of any of them. I got in my hand some books of Henry Miller, Tropic of Cancer, and Tropic of Capricorn, and I could not read more than a few pages. I was bored with them. I did not find in this Miller any sense of transcendence. I read some books from Anais Nin, and they were a lot much better. But I could not read many of his books. I get also bored. I have some books of Anais Nin in my bookcase awaiting to be read. I remember now Madame Bovary of Flaubert and got bored. Perhaps the readers of nowadays need a brisker pace in a story plot. We could get bored easily with the slow pace of many literary master works of the past.

 

I am not going to pass list of all the great famous literary works that I could not read at all. For most of them were a bore to me. They were not written for the readers of the second half of the twenty century, and not for the 21 century readers.

[John Galaor]

heh I've been "suggesting" GA publish for a while.... no takers yet.

 

there is a serious problem with publishing. There is an excessive offer that outstrips demand. I am not saying that there more writers today than readers. But the excess of offer makes very difficult to create the myth that is a great thing.

I had read that the budged of a typical movie of Hollywood requires to expend half the money in promotions and publicity. The same can be said about "bestsellers". They had to expend a great deal of money in publicity. So it is a risky business. If the releasing of a book coincides with some other important event, like a war or an economic crisis, the barrel of oil at 150 dollars or so, the book in question can remain under the shade of this bad omen and could not take off and fly successfully. It could also be interfered with some other big promotions. This is also bad. It is very difficult to create several myths at the same time. This happens sometimes with movies.

 

Then, to be a good book is more a question of prestige (that means publicity) than a question of real substance, or a given amount a literary quality. How can we weight or measure "quality" in literature?

 

I think many books have such a strong reputation nobody dares to refute, for it is a social taboo to do it. You should not challenge the old myths of History or literature.

 

I remember when I was in the army, an ignorant guy that never had read a book, were repeating that Cervantes was the greatest author in the world. Try to imagine a similar case but mentioning Shakespeare. So, this had become a dogma of faith, not a question of reading and comparing works.

[John Galaor]

I think you're wrong--just expressing my opinion--but it's not because you don't read enough.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your assessment of this aspect of "gay fiction." It's just that many published books fall into specific genres; there is such a thing as what you're calling a "regular novel," one that doesn't seem to fall into any given niche, but I'll bet that various kinds of "genre fiction" actually outsell "regular novels."

 

You know what I'm talking about: Romance novels. Mystery stories/whodunits. Westerns. Fantasy/Sword & Sorcery. Horror. Etc.

 

Each of those genres circumscribes, to a greater or lesser extent, the range of plot and theme available to a writer within the genre. Readers of books within those specific genres are interested in having typical themes explored, and the author works within the confines of those interests; it's likely he or she shares the interest or he wouldn't be writing in that genre. Unless he/she's merely making big bucks, which isn't likely.

 

I don't see a thing wrong with that. Just because a novel qualifies as a "genre" novel doesn't mean it's inherently bad.

 

The same thing is true of gay fiction. Just because it explores endless variations on the theme of "coming out," for example, doesn't mean it's bad. And just because it explores endless variations on the theme of "coming out" doesn't mean it has to be boring. I'm not even particularly opposed to gay (or straight) erotica. There's always a place for hi-quality written porn. What becomes boring, in my opinion, is when a person reads in only one genre. Then you'd expect to become bored after a while.

 

And as for the notion that "gay fiction" would be somehow improved if it told stories not centered around the gayness of this character or that...well, then it wouldn't be "gay fiction," would it? It would just be what you're referring to as a "regular novel." For a story to have a gay character doesn't mean it's gay fiction. There are many novels out there that have gay characters but that doesn't make them gay fiction. Just as the presence of romance in a novel doesn't make it a "romance novel." Now if you mean that a novel should have a gay protagonist and tell a story about that person, but not one in which his or her gayness is central to the narrative, I think I'd agree that it would be nice to have more stories like that. Personally, I'd like to see that kind of thing involving a bisexual protagonist, but we won't go there, LOL. Still, I'd have to say that in my opinion that would not be gay fiction. That would just be a "regular novel."

 

None of this has anything to do, I should say, with the quality of gay fiction out there, ebook or otherwise. And I'll agree that, with some significant exceptions, the quality is dreadful. I've enjoyed Steve Kluger's work immensely. I also love J. G Hayes, although he's not everybody's cup of tea. Jamie O'Neill's At Swim, Two Boys--which, by the way, is available in Kindle format--is some of the finest writing I've seen in any genre, and it's a gay love story. And in my opinion, Jim Grimsley's Dream Boy is a small miracle.

 

But then there are writers out there--too many writers--like Mark Roeder...

 

I know this thread is very old. And perhaps it is already exhausted and was said already all that can be said.

 

In any ordinary novel, a character or even the protagonist can be gay, but is not said any word about it, for several reasons. One reason can be that do not help the sales, but probably depressed sales, etc. I remember now all those gay actors of Hollywood that had to be hidden all their lives to save their careers of a wreck.

 

Then, a gay novel is about a character that even if he is hidden in its life, or in the story line, it is not hidden for narrative purposes.

Let's call this "gay novels" post Victorian novels. For we are still living in prison of Victoria sanctimony. If not in a total sense, at least in a relative one.

Then the Victorian prudishness is still ruling our lives and our criticism in this case. I have also myself a concept of good and bad literature. If I were to define the concept, I would tell "good literature is the one I love to read", and the opposite "bad literature is those books I cannot read".

I do not think anybody can challenge me at this definition, for it is totally "subjective". Then, if some putative authority decries that such and such works are "good literature" I had to believe it? It that were the question, the same authorities could also prohibit to write new stories. We have enough tons of literature from the past that we will not be able to read it in the next hundred years.

 

Then, why to write new stories, if the past is overwhelming us with a ton of books we had not yet read?

Let's imagine that there not less than 5,200 great novels and books of poetry that we are obliged to read by a culteran decree. Then we had promised to read all those books at the rate of one per week.

Then, as a year has only 52 weeks, in 100 years we would had read 5,200 books. And they are all ancient books, and they are all great books, genial books. No any need to write any more.

 

The trouble with this idea is that the tastes and interest of people had change with times. What it was fine and fashionable some centuries ago is now something with very little interest.

 

Then, a gay novel I suppose needs a degree of freedom that was impossible with the shackles of Victorian sanctimony. Even in sort of freedom, you would like more or less the sex scenes or the porno other people write. I even felt constraint by many Victorian conventions. But I try to remember that in Victorian times were also prostitution and sodomy. What was not permitted was that this operations were known or acknowledged that existed. Then, in Victorian conventions a lady should be always a lady, mostly should be a prudish one, to say the least, and only had intercourse under some special command aiming to increase the population of the Empire. Press tight your teeth, spread out the legs and endure what is to come for the good of the Empire.

 

All this can be interpreted on the light of controlling by aversive means the population. The aversive controls over a population were like proverbial sword of Damocles, hanging over the head of everybody.

 

Then, good quality? Bad quality? Of course. I had watched a few movies and read like a dozen of books that were a hit with public, but I did not like them.

I remains to me to read the "most popular" authors in GA. I should learn a lot from reading them.

[John Galaor]

So if I write a novel that features as my central character for example a gay character (like a gay police detective solving crimes) and possibly discuss some of his life, maybe even his love life or the relationship between him and his BF, but don't bring it into the bedroom or make the story 100% gay themed, I've NOT written a gay novel?

 

What if the gay police detective is working on a serial killer murdering gay men or the investigation of gay bashing or sex crimes... does that qualify??

 

I am not sure. But it seems to me that a gay novel is when being gay on the main character is outstanding in the story. But if the novel is about a main character that seems to be gay, for he has some manners, or that people gossips he is living with a male lover, etc. this is not a gay novel. Is novel with a character that is reputed to be gay. Then, even a gay novel does not force the main character of the story to get out of the closet. It could remain more or less closeted in general but not to the readers. Then, I think a gay novel is when the sexuality of character has a relevance in the story. When the character has some problems or make some particular decisions because he is gay. Then, the sexual life of the character can be more or less explicit in the narrative. This is an election the author decides when he writes. Some authors feel so bad after writing an explicit sex scene that they need to confess with a R.C priest. I suppose RC priests are the only priests that perform confessions.

Any way the constraints of Victorian prudishness are still ruling in our minds. Perhaps we would feel liberated in the next hundred years, just in case this civilization would last that long. For the exhaustion of oil is awaiting us in just 40 years or so. Perhaps, the theory of Richard Duncan, about peak oil, would become true and this civilization would collapse totally. So we are worrying about petty things like the poor quality of a novel and what it is.

[Zolia Lily]

I've been doing some research on e-publishing etc recently- and i don't think it's just gay fiction that these problems / rules are confined to. From what i understand, it seems like it's only big mainstream novels and recent bestsellers that make it from hard copies into e-book format, and that works published solely as e-books are overwhelmingly romance and erotica stories. It's like Mills and Boon out there, in that there's a lot of cut and dried, very formulaic stories and plot lines, and a lot of perfectly chiselled really ridiculously good looking heroes (and heroines), but i reckon there's some good stories out there too! it's the sorting that's the trouble.

Then again- on a positive note- doesn't it make you happy? I mean- if they can get that published online and sell some, I reckon some of the authors on GA could do really phenomenally well out there too!!!

 

But also- when i read these ebooks, it's pure escapism: I read them when i WANT a story which isn't going to challenge me, which is going to give me a happy ending, and maybe some nice thrills along the way. And the great thing is that i reckon a lot of the time the authors KNOW it's not high literature, and they don't care. They can have fun with it and enjoy it, and i enjoy that SO much more than some author who's busy proving to you what a great writer he is or getting wrapped up in his / her own intellectualism and trying to be that writer. Give me a gay fiction ebook anyday!!!

 

Despite the often poor quality, I am a bit addicted. I have more than 40 if anyone would like to use the lend function and borrow some!

 

... There's a LEND function??? I had NO IDEA!!! I get easily addicted to them too. I'm going to have to pick your brains and find out what i'm missing