MIllennium

[paya]

Great story. I was pissed off for first thirty or forty chapters as Brad was really obnoxious. But I was reminded the story was from his POV so it had to be heavily biased. The more I'm persuaded his character took a big hit in that part of the story. They way how both of them managed to get through their problem was really remarkable. And even if it's placing me among Robbie's staunch fans (which is not all that fair), I really admire the way how counseling helped him - in fact so much he was able to lead Brad through some of the retrospection. I only hope Brad and Robbie remain like that (stable and equal), the experience of 1968 has it Mark is always ready to stab the readers in the back with a very unrealistic twist in a character, at least that's where I'm coming from :P :P (I know, I know! Enough of Jeff-flogging but it's scarily similar to the end of CAP01. All happy and lovey-dovey...)

Edited September 23, 2011 by paya

[Mark Arbour]

Great story. I was pissed off for first thirty or forty chapters as Brad was really obnoxious. But I was reminded the story was from his POV so it had to be heavily biased. The more I'm persuaded his character took a big hit in that part of the story. They way how both of them managed to get through their problem was really remarkable. And even if it's placing me among Robbie's staunch fans (which is not all that fair), I really admire the way how counseling helped him - in fact so much he was able to lead Brad through some of the retrospection. I only hope Brad and Robbie remain like that (stable and equal), the experience of 1968 has it Mark is always ready to stab the readers in the back with a very unrealistic twist in a character, at least that's where I'm coming from (I know, I know! Enough of Jeff-flogging but it's scarily similar to the end of CAP01. All happy and lovey-dovey...)

 

That was what? 10 stories ago? Besides, I try not to repeat the same pattern.

[methodwriter85]

 

That was what? 10 stories ago? Besides, I try not to repeat the same pattern.

 

Right. That's why Will is a gay pothead surfer with a big dick, to really distinguish him from his dad.

 

Nah, but seriously, the recent Will character development has made him feel like less of a Brad redux. I like that he's into marine biology and the like.

[PrivateTim]

 

Right. That's why Will is a gay pothead surfer with a big dick, to really distinguish him from his dad.

 

Nah, but seriously, the recent Will character development has made him feel like less of a Brad redux. I like that he's into marine biology and the like.

 

Will is very different from his father on many levels, the first being that he is first generation wealthy. He has never known the kind of deprivation Brad or Robbie did. He grew up flying on private airplanes, yachts, living on the beach in a virtual mansion in one of CA's most exclusive neighborhoods, going to movie premieres, eating at top restaurants, having what ever clothes, video games, technology (computers, cell phones, etc), surfboard, bicycles, etc. he wanted and he takes it all in stride or maybe for granted. It is the only lifestyle he knows. It doesn't mean Will is bad because of it, it just is what it is. Everyone is a product of their upbringing, rich, poor, etc. and it shapes how you view the world, especially when you are younger. And not be snotty or anything, but until you have seen 15 year olds dining at Nobu on their own, you might not get it. (for those who don't know Nobu, it runs about $60-80 per person on the low side, up to $150 per person for the omakase and you are likely to run into Pierce Brosnan, Danny DeVito, Rob Reiner, Steven Dorf and so on any given night of the week).

 

So that life of Will's sets his vision and perceptions very different from his father's. Will may not have thought of it in these terms, but essentially, he has no worries in life from a comfort and future stand point. He can graduate college (USC or UCSD) in marine biology and head off with his surfboard to Fiji, Rarotanga, Tahiti, Costa Rica or Oz (or the Farrallon Isnads to study great whites) to work as a marine biologist and not worry about what the job pays.

 

Edited September 26, 2011 by PrivateTim

[Mark Arbour]

 

Will is very different from his father on many levels, the first being that he is first generation wealthy. He has never known the kind of deprivation Brad or Robbie did. He grew up flying on private airplanes, yachts, living on the beach in a virtual mansion in one of CA's most exclusive neighborhoods, going to movie premieres, eating at top restaurants, having what ever clothes, video games, technology (computers, cell phones, etc), surfboard, bicycles, etc. he wanted and he takes it all in stride or maybe for granted. It is the only lifestyle he knows. It doesn't mean Will is bad because of it, it just is what it is. Everyone is a product of their upbringing, rich, poor, etc. and it shapes how you view the world, especially when you are younger. And not be snotty or anything, but until you have seen 15 year olds dining at Nobu on their own, you might not get it. (for those who don't know Nobu, it runs about $60-80 per person on the low side, up to $150 per person for the omakase and you are likely to run into Pierce Brosnan, Danny DeVito, Rob Reiner, Steven Dorf and so on any given night of the week).

 

So that life of Will's sets his vision and perceptions very different from his father's. Will may not have thought of it in these terms, but essentially, he has no worries in life from a comfort and future stand point. He can graduate college (USC or UCSD) in marine biology and head off with his surfboard to Fiji, Rarotanga, Tahiti, Costa Rica or Oz (or the Farrallon Isnads to study great whites) to work as a marine biologist and not worry about what the job pays.

 

 

Great wave.

 

I thought about this, and while I get where you're coming from, Brad really never had money issues or worries. His issues/worries revolved around his psychotic mother. Claire and Ace didn't have worries either. But I agree that after a number of generations, it can be just assumed. JP didn't do that, but Brad and Claire did, and now Will and his brothers seem to do it completely.

[methodwriter85]

I was under the impression that the Paris plot happened because of the fact that Will generally doesn't have any worries or such in his life, and it'd be boring to follow someone who gets everything he wants in life with no problems.

 

On the other hand, with JJ, there are plethora of issues to mine. There's being a baby born to a crackwhore who was screwing her uncle. There's being short and picked on. There's being the middle child with Darius the Social Butterfly and Will the guy everyone likes while never quite feeling like you get enough attention.There's being in a sport that requires you to look like a perfect, sexless angel and to essentially trade in your childhood for a shot at Olympic Gold. I LOVED that it took fourteen years in CAP time for Jim to get called out. It'd be interesting to see JJ deal with all this stuff, when he's about 20 in 2006. There's so much stuff for Mark to mine here without even having to come up with anything- it's all there organically.

 

Back to the Will vs. Brad- I like that Will's not Mr. Fashion Plate the way his dad is. I like that there's more of a laidback look in how he dresses, and that he cares more about the environment. I also love that he's never going to know what it's like to be in the closet.

 

I was never really in the closet either- and I'm starting to get how rare that is/was- but it's great to have a character for whom there is no coming out angst to deal with because there was never a closet to deal with. Cross-Currents is realistic, but there are guys who never had an issue with their sexuality, and I'm glad to see that being relfected here.

Edited September 26, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Matthew k]

 

Will is very different from his father on many levels, the first being that he is first generation wealthy. He has never known the kind of deprivation Brad or Robbie did. He grew up flying on private airplanes, yachts, living on the beach in a virtual mansion in one of CA's most exclusive neighborhoods, going to movie premieres, eating at top restaurants, having what ever clothes, video games, technology (computers, cell phones, etc), surfboard, bicycles, etc. he wanted and he takes it all in stride or maybe for granted. It is the only lifestyle he knows. It doesn't mean Will is bad because of it, it just is what it is. Everyone is a product of their upbringing, rich, poor, etc. and it shapes how you view the world, especially when you are younger. And not be snotty or anything, but until you have seen 15 year olds dining at Nobu on their own, you might not get it. (for those who don't know Nobu, it runs about $60-80 per person on the low side, up to $150 per person for the omakase and you are likely to run into Pierce Brosnan, Danny DeVito, Rob Reiner, Steven Dorf and so on any given night of the week).

 

So that life of Will's sets his vision and perceptions very different from his father's. Will may not have thought of it in these terms, but essentially, he has no worries in life from a comfort and future stand point. He can graduate college (USC or UCSD) in marine biology and head off with his surfboard to Fiji, Rarotanga, Tahiti, Costa Rica or Oz (or the Farrallon Isnads to study great whites) to work as a marine biologist and not worry about what the job pays.

 

 

Bula a Fiji. I wanna be Will and work in the South Pacific, live in a grass shack, eat fish, surf and count reef fish.

[methodwriter85]

Some other differences between Will and Brad:

 

1. The internet. Don't underestimate it. Regular kids Will's age would have been on the internet by middle school, but I'm betting he was surfing on Windows '95 at the age of eight. Will's generation is right on that edge of people who can remember a pre-internet time, but just barely. I think I was about ten the first time I went online. Later on, I'm betting that Will's going to be on Facebook and uploading videos to Youtube. I think at this point though, he's just going to be on LiveJournal.

 

2. Cell phones. I'm betting Will got his first cell at 12, although it's possible he might have gotten his earlier. I bet he doesn't know how to dial a rotary phone. (I don't, either. LOL.)

 

3. Hip-hop. The HW video I posted of these rich white kids blaring "Paper Planes" by M.I.A. in their expensive white SUV? Pretty dead-on. Hip-hop has a HUGE influence- even if you're not listening to it personally, hip-hop is the main music played at parties and it influences the way people talk and dress. As Adam Phillips once put it to me, "everyone wants to be black." LOL. It's a definite far cry from the ultra-preppy, whitebread early 80's that Brad was influenced by. There's a movie called Havoc with Anne Hathaway that address the whole "rich white kids trying to be black" deal. And Alpha Dogs, but it does in a much more subtle way.

 

4. Gay rights. Will's at the point now where civil unions in Vermont are a possibility. It's not on his radar yet, but civil unions/marriages are becoming a possibility for him. That's going to be a HUGE influence on him.

 

I do think that in this story, Will felt like more of a Brad redux, going into Poor Man's Son, but when Mark got Will off of the stripper pole and actually displaying personality instead of being a 13-year old sexpot, he started feeling a lot less like a Brad Redux. It helps that Mark doesn't seem to be trying to set Will up with a Hayes boy. I actually like Tony, but of course the age and distance thing will be difficult.

 

As a random, I got coerced into singing "I Touch Myself" at karoke last night. It made me think of Mark...

Edited October 1, 2011 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

CA had been doing domestic partnerships since before Will was born and a domestic partnership is the same as a civil union in CA. the scope of what they cover have been expanding since the mid 1980's and most Hollywood companies, including The Walt Disney Co. have been offering partner benefits since the late 80's, early 90's.

 

It was the possibility of legal gay marriage in Hawaii in 1993 that spraked the passage of DOMA.

 

As a random, how many drinks did you have last night?

[methodwriter85]

I hit about two Marg's and six or seven glasses of Yuengling. I like my alcohol tolerance low.

 

Massachusetts passes gay marriage his senior year of high school. That'll be huge. (There was also the gay scandal in NJ, but I'm not sure how many jokes were being made about Governor Jim McGreevy in California, however.) There was also Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, and of course, the O.C. God, I can't wait for '03-'04!

Edited October 2, 2011 by methodwriter85

[methodwriter85]

That's a great question and a great answer. They don't really look a like, they just share some similar features and characteristics, enough to spark Brad's suspicions. Plus I'll bet that being in that family, you learn to look for stuff like that. It's key as to how they don't look all that much alike that no one else, including Jim, picked up on it.

 

This is from a while back, but I gotta say...told ya so. I KNEW someone would pick up on it being weird that Ella should look like Claire since Claire isn't actually a biological Crampton like Ella is.

 

I kinda wonder if Ella is going to change her name to Crampton, but the Hayes name does seem to be losing its stigma because of Robbie, and hopefully when Gathan's the Mayor it'll be totally over by then.