[Andrew_Q_Gordon] Second Shot

[Andrew Q Gordon]

I am always looking for feed back, good bad or in between. I am particularly interested in comments on what to work on. There is a LOT more to come, maybe too much but we will see.

 

Story Link: Second Chances

 

For those with an interest, I did play soccer for a LONG time, but was never that good. Steady maybe, but never great. I started to referee when my knees were shot. I played in the Gay Games in New York and helped referee several finals of the Gay Soccer Championships before my career took too much of my time. Gay Soccer

 

I am taking Martial Arts classes - though my discipline [Krav Maga] is nothing like what I am having Peter study. For those interested, Krav Maga is the Israeli defense training. It is at its core a self-defense training that is intense, difficult and leaves me bruised and achy when class is over. I highly recommend it to anyone who is interested. Here is a link for anyone interested. Just go knowing that on day one they are going to have you punching and kicking. Krav Maga

 

Otherwise the rest of the story is pretty much based on thoughts in my head. The characters truly don't remind me of anyone I know. They are not based on anyone I knew, wanted to know or hated.

 

Thanks for reading and feel free to email me if you don't want to tell me I stink in a public forum.

 

PS, not sure if the links work but if you right click you should be able to open them.

 

Update - turns out Second Chances was used by another Author on GA so with apologies to that author and to avoid a breach of etiquette, I changes the the title [after making sure this was not used already] I don't think it will be too confusing [ok yes it will a bit confusing but it is still necessary ]

[AnytaSunday]

I am always looking for feed back, good bad or in between. I am particularly interested in comments on what to work on. There is a LOT more to come, maybe too much but we will see.

 

Story Link Second Chances

 

For those with an interest, I did play soccer for a LONG time, but was never that good. Steady maybe, but never great. I started to referee when my knees were shot. I played in the Gay Games in New York and helped referee several finals of the Gay Soccer Championships before my career took too much of my time. Gay Soccer

 

I am taking Martial Arts classes - though my discipline [Krav Maga] is nothing like what I am having Peter study. For those interested, Krav Maga is the Israeli defense training. It is at its core a self-defense training that is intense, difficult and leaves me bruised and achy when class is over. I highly recommend it to anyone who is interested. Here is a link for anyone interested. Just go knowing that on day one they are going to have you punching and kicking. Krav Maga

 

Otherwise the rest of the story is pretty much based on thoughts in my head. The characters truly don't remind me of anyone I know. They are not based on anyone I knew, wanted to know or hated.

 

Thanks for reading and feel free to email me if you don't want to tell me I stink in a public forum.

 

PS, not sure if the like work but if you right click you should be able to open them.

 

Okay, so I read both your chapters and thought you've done a fantastic job on them. Small comments (nitpicks really) from an wannabe, learning writer, hehehe--so feel free to ignore--

 

When you use speech tags: I said, he answered, she proposed, then at the end of the dialogue use a comma.

 

Just to show (because I like solid examples--not to be annoying or anything hehe)

 

 

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Okay, so I read both your chapters and thought you've done a fantastic job on them. Small comments (nitpicks really) from an wannabe, learning writer, hehehe--so feel free to ignore--

 

When you use speech tags: I said, he answered, she proposed, then at the end of the dialogue use a comma.

 

Just to show (because I like solid examples--not to be annoying or anything hehe)

 

"Yes coach." Darryl said. --> "Yes coach," Darryl said.

 

But I also want to say here, that your beats between dialogue are well done. I like that you don't overuse the tags. So great stuff there.

 

Um, that was all really. I'm excited to read on.

 

Anyta

 

That is not nit picky it is something my writing teachers have been trying to drill into me forever! I also screw up the stuff like:

 

He turned to Jason saying, "don't go there." When it should be "Don't go there." So you reinforcing a lesson I am still working on

 

What does "Beats between dialogue" mean? Are you talking about how it flows? Or to paraphrase a beer commercial 'readability?" [i think the beer com. called it drinkability.]

 

Sorry not fishing for a compliment, just never heard that expression before.

 

Andy

[AnytaSunday]

Okay, rrrrr I just somehow deleted my response that is frustrating. hehehe.

 

Anyway, what is a BEAT? A beat if a sentence used between, before, or during dialogue that shows us some action or character thought. For example, using something from your story:

 

 

 

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Okay, that makes sense. Who knew that is what it was called? This new learning amazes me.

 

Which then begs the question, why are you toiling away here and not being published somewhere? [somewhere in that sentence was supposed to be a compliment about your skills.]

 

Right now I have a barbell problem with this story. I have a big bit of the beginning done, and bigger chunk of the end [two separate conflicts that require resolution] but am thin in the middle. My goal is to bridge the two ends before I run out of the first part. On the advise of a friend who read the second part, I went back and wrote a beginning rather than do it in flash back. His suggestion - which I appreciated but didn't fully understand how much work it entailed lo these 6 months later - was to make the reader invested in the characters before the conflict that occurs in the second part. So since then, I have been writing my way toward that event. Getting closer, not there yet but the idea is there. All that is left is to get it onto the page - yes oh so simple right?

 

Thanks again for the comments, you are great.

[AnytaSunday]

Okay, that makes sense. Who knew that is what it was called? This new learning amazes me.

 

Which then begs the question, why are you toiling away here and not being published somewhere? [somewhere in that sentence was supposed to be a compliment about your skills.]

 

Right now I have a barbell problem with this story. I have a big bit of the beginning done, and bigger chunk of the end [two separate conflicts that require resolution] but am thin in the middle. My goal is to bridge the two ends before I run out of the first part. On the advise of a friend who read the second part, I went back and wrote a beginning rather than do it in flash back. His suggestion - which I appreciated but didn't fully understand how much work it entailed lo these 6 months later - was to make the reader invested in the characters before the conflict that occurs in the second part. So since then, I have been writing my way toward that event. Getting closer, not there yet but the idea is there. All that is left is to get it onto the page - yes oh so simple right?

 

Thanks again for the comments, you are great.

 

Whoever your friend is, they were right. Avoid flashback whenever possible. A story is much more engaging if it is happening as we read it. Yes, the work is hard, but the results will be better--that's almost a guarantee. And yes, making your readers invested in the characters is essential--it will give more impact to whatever is to come.

 

Middles are tricky because you don't want them to drag, There needs to be a continuous rise of conflict and tension (um, let's just say here, I'm preaching what I still haven't got down pat myself, but you know writing this helps me keep some essentials in mind,lol). Each of this mini conflicts will lead to and result in the climax of the story.

 

Hahaha, I TOTALLY understand you. Trying to transpose the story in the head onto paper is a challenge and it almost always ends up different. Not bad, or worse, just different. Capturing the right atmosphere can be hard. I feel you completely.

 

Was this story classified as a romance? Just curious, because there is a difference between a romance and a love story. A romance by definition (in the writing world at least) MUST have a happy ending. If something tragic will happen, this may be a love story. I just mention this, because the way I read "event" above. (I'm super curious to read it now. I just noticed you have another chapter up, too, so I'm going to read that very soon).

 

As for your lovely compliment. I still have very much to learn with my writing. As you can probably see in chapter 10, I have issues with pacing and tension. I aim to hone and work on my skills, because ONE DAY I'm determined to be published. Gotta have a goal, right? hehehe. Well, on that note, if you have any tips for me, I'm all ears.

 

Cool stuff! I'm going to go read now...

 

Anyta

[AnytaSunday]

Okay, chapter three was also well written and a fun read.

 

Just one thing I noticed.

 

when you use the conjunction 'but' in a sentence, a comma should go before it.

 

Comma's are the bane of my writing life, I'm always getting them muddled up. I just wanted to share some of what I've found out.

 

Example:

 

It doesn

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Judging by the stories posted on the eFiction section, I fear this story is going to be too long. Any comments on how long something should be to maintain people's interest?

[AnytaSunday]

Judging by the stories posted on the eFiction section, I fear this story is going to be too long. Any comments on how long something should be to maintain people's interest?

 

Uh, do you mean chapter length or overall story? Because I find it ranges widely (both story and chapter length, actually). I think as long as you post regularly and don't give up half way and leave us readers hanging, it can be as long as it takes for the story to unfold.

 

How many words do you have? 100K ? 150K?

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Uh, do you mean chapter length or overall story? Because I find it ranges widely (both story and chapter length, actually). I think as long as you post regularly and don't give up half way and leave us readers hanging, it can be as long as it takes for the story to unfold.

 

How many words do you have? 100K ? 150K?

 

Chapter length I am good with. Since I don't post the entire story at once, I am going with btw 6-7K maybe a bit more if I am not going to post for a bit maybe less if I have two chapters ready.

 

Overall story is at about 195K and probably another 40-50K to go to complete. I am sure I can cut some fluff out, chapters that do not add significantly to the plot but give greater depth to the characters, a couple scene come to mind. The problem for me is that those are in my mind, some of the better more creative scenes. Most of them were parts that came naturally and were so easy to write i couldn't get the thoughts down fast enough. But on balance most of those don't have a meaningful impact on the story - For example - without saying much an outing for Jason with his grandfather to look at antique cars, It is certainly not central but it was some of the more fun writing - I love antique cars and dream about buying something like an 1960's Astin Martin or 1940's Bentley. So while I can probably find a way to cut them, I don't really want too LOL.

 

Feel free to send as many electronic smacks as you like at this point.

 

Andy

[AnytaSunday]

Chapter length I am good with. Since I don't post the entire story at once, I am going with btw 6-7K maybe a bit more if I am not going to post for a bit maybe less if I have two chapters ready.

 

Overall story is at about 195K and probably another 40-50K to go to complete. I am sure I can cut some fluff out, chapters that do not add significantly to the plot but give greater depth to the characters, a couple scene come to mind. The problem for me is that those are in my mind, some of the better more creative scenes. Most of them were parts that came naturally and were so easy to write i couldn't get the thoughts down fast enough. But on balance most of those don't have a meaningful impact on the story - For example - without saying much an outing for Jason with his grandfather to look at antique cars, It is certainly not central but it was some of the more fun writing - I love antique cars and dream about buying something like an 1960's Astin Martin or 1940's Bentley. So while I can probably find a way to cut them, I don't really want too LOL.

 

Feel free to send as many electronic smacks as you like at this point.

 

Andy

 

Okaaaaay.

 

Let me get my thoughts straight on this--I have some conflicting ones.

 

So, there are plenty of books hovering around the 200K mark--in fact just recently I finished 'At Swim, Two Boys' which was just over that length. What made this huge book work, was the fact that every scene had meaning or built character--it was a part of the story. THIS IS ESSENTIAL, in my humble opinion. I have read other large books, where I can see an author is passionate about a topic, but it doesn't quite fit the story well enough--or the length is out of proportion to other parts of the story.

 

While you may love antique cars (that's sweet) remember the audience may not be able to appreciate all the fine details. IF it is part of WHO the character is, then of course his love and knowledge for them will come across, but peppered through the story, not in large chunks of, well, info-dumping (that is a phrase used in the writing world= too much background/description and all at once). If you know that some parts don't contribute to the story, you have to make a hard decision. It's probably better to cut those babies. That's hard to hear, I hate doing it myself, but it does balance the book better in the end.

 

OF COURSE, it also depends on your intent. If you want to get published, then you'd be wise to cut fluff (only keeping what pushes the story forward). If you want to write, because it pleases you and these parts are your favorite, then stuff the 'rules' and keep it.

 

Another thing you could consider is doubling scenes. For example, do you have an important scene where two characters, let's say it's Peter and Jason, talk about something? Think about where that is set (in a cafe? a bar?) does that setting matter? IF NOT, then why not re-write that important scene into a setting you care about. Take that car exhibition, for example. Why not have that important-pushing-the-story-forward- part there? If you can somehow think of ways and reasons to double up on things, you'll cut word count, AND you'd be keeping more(not necessarily all ) of your favorite 'fluff' scenes.

 

Well, I don't know if that's at all helpful, it is just one (unprofessional) opinion. Personally, I am very much engaged by your writing and story so far, and would read on. I'll tell you if I think something isn't necessary though, if you'd like.

 

Excellent. Well, I hope you post soon. I'm hooked,

 

Anyta

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Wow, thanks for that much info.

 

Right now I am not at the point of cutting stuff - well maybe if I were going to seek to get published I would cut a bit here or there, but none of the scenes so far really scream - "cut me! cut me!" Maybe the part in the apartment when the parents come but even there, you get to meet the parents learn how his mom is - central to the later stuff, etc. There are parts coming up that might get cut, not sure.

 

I get the 'just the facts ma'am' approach. And I wrote the Jason/Grandfather part as a semi stand alone scene - meaning I didn't refer to it in subsequent chapters until I am sure it is staying. I can always refer back if I keep it. I am leaning toward cutting it but I like the your suggestion of working it in as part of something else. It is only marginally essential - but it does show the grandfather which is sort of important later. Yes I ramble even when I type, imagine that.

 

Thanks so much. I am going to try to read more of these forums, Thinking about concepts keeps them foremost in mind when I write. Of course that didn't stop me from spending part of the day writing about antique cars and auctions

[Nephylim]

Any comments on how long something should be to maintain people's interest?

 

 

As long as it's interesting.

 

People will be interested in a story for as long as it has a story to tell. There are many examples dotted around. I would be careful about cutting things because if you're not you are going to end up with 'holes'.

[Andrew Q Gordon]

As long as it's interesting.

 

People will be interested in a story for as long as it has a story to tell. There are many examples dotted around. I would be careful about cutting things because if you're not you are going to end up with 'holes'.

 

Agreed, I don't plan to cut for the sake of cutting. When the time comes maybe I will post it as written and see what people think and use that as a guide for future places I think could be kept or cut.

[Andrew Q Gordon]

.....

 

Was this story classified as a romance? Just curious, because there is a difference between a romance and a love story. A romance by definition (in the writing world at least) MUST have a happy ending. If something tragic will happen, this may be a love story. I just mention this, because the way I read "event" above. (I'm super curious to read it now. I just noticed you have another chapter up, too, so I'm going to read that very soon).

...

 

 

Forgot to mention that I didn't realize the technical definition of a romance means it ends happily. So don't read anything into my selection then it contains some romance - it wasn't meant to signify a happy ending. Not saying there won't be but I wasn't say there would be either by choosing that category.

 

Andy

Edited August 9, 2010 by Quonus10

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Chapter 4 is up for those interested. It is a tad long but as I probably won't be able to post chapter 5 til the weekend I thought this was a good stopping place.

[AnytaSunday]

Regarding Chapter Four:

 

Hey, this was another nicely paced and tension filled chapter. So good job.

 

A couple of nit-picks for you:

 

1)

to breathe --> this is a verb

breath --> noun

 

I noticed on a few occasions that the words were mixed up, where breathe should be breath.

 

2)

 

I will tell you this one anyway, although forgive me if this was intended as a joke or something in your chapter. If so, I'm too slow to have gotten it. Just ignore this, if that's the case. (or make it clearer it's a joke)

 

If it's not a joke then there is an inconsistency (I've copied and pasted from your chapter to demonstrate):

 

Instead, Peter suggested they have lunch in one of the small towns north of Harrisburg. When he suggested they meet there instead of driving together, Jason decided they were taking secrecy too far.

 

Okay, so here Peter has organized the plan for the date--and has suggested they meet there (at least at the time of making plan.)

 

[Andrew Q Gordon]

#1 is easy - I know I do that a lot. If you knew how many times I pull up the on line dictionary to be sure I am using the right one - it's embarrassing. When I self edit, I am on the look out for that one but a guess they slip through anyway

 

#2 is not really an inconsistency - at least not in my mind - Of course Peter didn't want to drive separate but he offered it to help out. Basically it was one of those - we can drive seperate if you really want to but I really hope you don't - kind of offers. I forgot to put that explanation in in when I got to the second part. [There is a personal joke behind that which of course doesn't translate.] I can fix it with a line or two when i get a chance to revise.

 

Thanks for catching that.

 

Chapter 5 is going to have to wait a bit, work looks ugly this week.

 

Andy

 

 

[AnytaSunday]

Well, just read chapter five.

 

Other than a very small reminder about using commas before speech tags (hehe) I have nothing to comment on. This chapter flowed well, the pacing was perfect, the action drove the story forward. Nice stuff.

 

Looking forward to subsequent chaps. Yay,

 

Anyta

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Well, just read chapter five.

 

Other than a very small reminder about using commas before speech tags (hehe) I have nothing to comment on. This chapter flowed well, the pacing was perfect, the action drove the story forward. Nice stuff.

 

Looking forward to subsequent chaps. Yay,

 

Anyta

 

 

Yes, yes, I know; I keep telling people I HATE commas, dumbest invention ever after that whole i before e, except when you drink Hi-C or whatever.

 

Seriously, thanks for the feed back, I am working to cut down on those errors, but it will probably only show up when I start re-writing or writing new stuff. My ADD kicks in after a page, two max, so it would take days to get out one chapter if I tried to find every grammatical error.

 

Thanks for the encouragement and keep hitting me with the grammar lessons, eventually I will listen.

 

Andy

[Andrew Q Gordon]

For those reading and wondering, I posted Six early Saturday but the validation queue seems to be moving slowly. Seven is ready to go once Six is validated and I am almost ready to post Eight. Next week I am on vacation -from work - so I will try to get caught up and get at least the rest of the first half complete. From there, I am still working to bridge to the second part. 40% done there.

 

Check back in later.

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Okay since I am talking to myself here, I promise not to post again without a few other posts from other people first.

 

Chapter 6 is up, I am told I should be able to post future chapters sooner. I am good for another 6 Chapters or so, then I have hit a bit of a snag. If anyone(s) wants to help me connect the two parts of the story, [as in help me and Jian who is being an absolute god send with all the help he has given,] I would welcome the help.

 

Basically, I have the build up - the part you are reading now, and the 'event' - not telling more on the forum. I wrote the event part first then wrote the background. I am stuck - sort of - between the two. When I say sort of, I found it easy to write this part and the next part but not so easy to connect the two. I feel the bridge chapter suffer and would welcome some input.

 

Thanks for reading and posting

 

Andy

[jian_sierra]

Since I have nothing better to do, I thought I'd keep you company in here for a while. And if you need help, I'm willing. I like helping out especially in stories.

 

Ok since I am of the firm belief that people should be praised when they deserve it, I just wanna say that I think your story's really good and thank you for letting me read your story on my own pace (and not yours since it takes you time to post ). I love Peter a lot and not only because I think he's hot (he's a fictional character for pete's sake) but more so because i can relate to him. I'm not as good-looking as him and I was never outed (I'm still in the closet) but everything else about him, I can relate to.

 

So keep up the good work. Now you have an excuse to post again since somebody else (me) made a post

[AnytaSunday]

Okay since I am talking to myself here, I promise not to post again without a few other posts from other people first.

 

Chapter 6 is up, I am told I should be able to post future chapters sooner. I am good for another 6 Chapters or so, then I have hit a bit of a snag. If anyone(s) wants to help me connect the two parts of the story, [as in help me and Jian who is being an absolute god send with all the help he has given,] I would welcome the help.

 

Basically, I have the build up - the part you are reading now, and the 'event' - not telling more on the forum. I wrote the event part first then wrote the background. I am stuck - sort of - between the two. When I say sort of, I found it easy to write this part and the next part but not so easy to connect the two. I feel the bridge chapter suffer and would welcome some input.

 

Thanks for reading and posting

 

Andy

 

 

Okay, I want to talk about chapter six, but I also wanted to reply to this post. (You can see where this is going, right? hehehe)

 

First CHAPTER SIX:

 

General: An engaging chapter. The pace was perfect, things not moving too fast, and certainly not slow. Well done on that count. Also coming into this, the flow was natural and I didn't experience any kinks in the timeline.

 

Nitpicks/other remarks:

 

1)

To accommodate soccer, Jason scheduled most of his classes in the morning and tried to keep Friday free if possible.

I know what you're trying to say here, but something didn't sound right with the structure. One suggestion I have is: To accommodate soccer, Jason scheduled most of his classes in the morning and tried to keep Friday as free as possible.

 

2)

There had only five such games in the two seasons

A word is missing here. This should be either: There had only been five such... OR They'd only had

 

3) hehehehe-- just a friendly reminder about using commas before speech tags. (I'm going to drill this, and I already see progress--just not enough. One time you did this right, and I was like, hurrah!!! hehehe.) Also the comma before speech tag is not only for 'said', but also for other forms of vocal-ness (for want of a better word), like: he joked, she complained, Dolly shouted, Sam prompted.... (Actions like laughing, giggling, chuckling, sighing--these are NOT speech tags, so no using commas before them.)

 

Enough with that one, yeah? hehe.

 

4)

He doubted Erin was going to pass the photo around telling everyone this is my brother's boyfriend.

The issue I have with this sentence is the mix of tenses. As the story is written in the past, I would stick with it, unless it's a direct thought. (DIRECT thoughts, are written in present tense AND are italicized. )

 

Suggestion for this sentence: He doubted Erin was going to pass the photo around telling everyone I was his boyfriend.

 

5) Hmmm, this touches on three, so I'll make it brief. When using 'he said', or 'she said', the pronoun is in small caps.

 

Peter dated before." She said approvingly.

 

---> Peter dated before," she said approvingly.

 

6) I know this is only a typo, I would have let it go, but it came up twice in the chapter. Cloths ---> Clothes.

 

7)Pacing is nicely dealt with, and there's the perfect amount of tension in all scenes.

 

8)The exchanging pictures was great. I loved that, also I thought Erin sounded great. What a sis!

 

9) I felt like the Dean comment at the end of first scene was a bit of foreshadowing (hint dropping). If so, NICE! This whole how would Dean react and how he wishes Dean will react to him once he finds out he's gay shows us a lot of Jason's personality, but also it highlights the major conflict of the book again, and when reading this bit, I thought there will be development here. Maybe Dean doesn't take things well at first, but I see potential for development such that perhaps, at the end he's learning to accept (Now, I could be WAY off here, this is just how my mind spiralled when reading this part). Also, I thought there would be lovely symmtery if this 'total hottie' comment is used in other places of your book--as such a nice way of tying themes of acceptance together.

 

Okay, I'm rambling, let's move on...

 

10) LOVE the word haggle. I giggled when I read it. hehehe.

 

11) Also, Jason is a sneaky monkey, the way he deals with Darryl--I thought it was clever of him to come up with such a plan that let's him spend more time with Peter.

 

12) Oh, now, the text Jason sends to Peter asking if it's all right that he stays over, I think this needs to be in italics. when I read over it at first I got confused with the shortened language, in particular the 'let me no if I can stay w/u.' Okay, so the end bit became clearer, but at first I thought this was meant to be 'let me know if I can't stay...' I thought of the negative construction because of the 'no'. Nah, well, this is a major nitpick if there is one. Just thought this would come across better if italicized.

 

13) Jason's internal thoughts and nervousness coming early to Peter's--- the earlyness, and sweet anxiousness was just. Spot. On.

 

14) The date--the dinner, the interaction was perfect. It felt so real, sincere and wonderful. Also five stars for that.

 

15) LOL--the cleaning up straight after dinner. hehehe, I do that too. Can't stand having to deal with it later, also, how much harder is it to clean, when the air glues the food onto the plates? Yeah, I so understand this. hehehe.

 

16) Now, this isn't major, but I found the transition from going to bed to waking in the morning sudden. I don't think it needs much to tie the two together more, I just felt a bit disjointed. It could be I was expecting more details (*blushes--now, don't get me wrong, it doesn't have to be much, I guess just that tender first caresses, if awkward can express affection. Hmmm, anyway just my opinion--feel free to ignore it!)

 

17) The ending was very satisfying, and left me wanting to read chapter seven, which will be up soon, I hope.

 

Okay, so that was it with the comments, now to reply to your request-- I would be happy to look over what you have and give you input. To do it thoroughly, which I would want to do (given the chance, of course) I'd need a couple of weeks (I have soo much to do right now with crits, and writing, in-laws and my lovely bubs). If that time frame works for you, I'd love to offer any tid-bits I can on bridging the gap between parts. Well, get back to me if you're interested.

 

Awesome, now I'd better get back to some planning and writing... Hope something here was useful,

 

Anyta

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Anyta -

 

Um, question, do you buy red pens by the case???

 

Seriously, thanks for that I will go back and change a few things. [i am not even going to try to do tackle the comma thingys - look if e.b.white could eschew capital letters, i can forget a few comma's here and there - that's my final answer!!!:mace:

 

I think the italics thing might work for all 'texting' I wasn't exactly sure how to convey it. That and transferring from the word processor to the forum tends to do away with my formating so I tried to stick with quotes, have to see next time.

 

I will get back to you with the beta reading. What I see as an issue is you need to finish this first part before I can send you the 'bridge' most of it won't make sense until then. So we are a few weeks or more away from that. I will let you know when I get closer. I want to finish it first THEN I can finish posting what I am good with before sending out the chapters that I am not so good with.

 

Thanks to you and Jian for the offers. And I owe you a box of red pens now.

 

Andy