[Andrew_Q_Gordon] Second Shot

[AnytaSunday]

Um, question, do you buy red pens by the case???

 

 

 

Too nitpicky? sorry. I hope the 'I think that chapter was awesome' came through enough. Yeah, I tend to hone in on small details. I've got to learn to refrain from the urge. hehehe. Still, the offer to help is there whenever you'd like to take advantage of that.

 

Sweet,

Anyta

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Too nitpicky? sorry. I hope the 'I think that chapter was awesome' came through enough. Yeah, I tend to hone in on small details. I've got to learn to refrain from the urge. hehehe. Still, the offer to help is there whenever you'd like to take advantage of that.

 

Sweet,

Anyta

 

 

I was kidding - well not about do you buy lots of red pens - it is awesome stuff - if you stop I will start kicking myself for being unable to refrain from my constant use of sarcasm. Okay back to the work ughh - one more day until my first vacation in more than a year

 

Ciao

[AnytaSunday]

Hey Andy,

 

Chapter seven 'three's a crowd' is another perfect (IMO) building block of your story. It was an enjoyable read, and I love the development we get to see of Jason and Peter's relationship. It feels very real. Also I LOVED the witty banter, you're good at that. hehe.

 

I don't have much to comment on this time. The nitpicks on grammar you're aware of, but really that's such a small thing.

 

Of more use I think is a quick look at characterization.

 

Jason--In my opinion, and this is helped by the fact the story is written from his POV (Point of View), he is the most developed character. We are allowed into his head, we experience his anxieties and nerves as he goes through them. He's sneaky and a fantastic plotter on a surface level--making him quite entertaining. But under that, well, actually that is a cover disguising some pretty serious issues. At the moment he lives in fear, fear of what other people think, how they might act, and fear (in a good way) of what it means to fall in love. Well, I think you're crafting a good three-dimensional character here. So well done.

 

Peter--I think we are learning more and more about him, in the last couple of chapters I've come to appreciate him as pretty insecure about himself (physically). I want to see how things develop in the next few chapters in terms of his development. I want to know more about him, I want to see him faced with a difficult decision or spot and see how he handles it. I want to know what inner/outer conflicts he has and how that affects Jason.

 

Darryl-- is a great side character. I like his personality and interaction with Jason. Nice.

 

Wendy-- now her relationship with Jason I don't get. I guess in the chapter(s) she has been introduced to the audience in a negative light. Now, while that's fine--because her wanting to be with Jason adds to the conflict, I fail to feel the 'friendship' level between them. I wondered 'Why is he friends with her at all?' (Maybe it's just that they knew each other for a long time, but, I dunno, I feel maybe something needs to be added to balance things out a little. For example, maybe he can remember the good times they had/do have. It doesn't have to be much, and this is only my opinion, but I'd add a splash more showing why/giving us a feeling that they are in fact friends).

 

Well, I think that's all I have to say. Excellent chapter. I look forward to reading more,

 

Anyta

 

Oh, also, I wanted to add something regarding the mail I sent you yesterday on scenes. Hehe, shoot I came across as opinionated. Just wanted to say while I do believe in what I wrote theoretically--I am still learning to do it myself. Sometimes I feel like a hypocrite giving advice. Hahaha.

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Anyta -

 

Couple quick answer/responses.

 

Peter - his time will come, be patient - this part is about Jason, next part is about them both and Peter's issues come out then - Sorry Jian - he won't be perfect even though I know you want him to be

 

Wendy - this too shall be fleshed out. Right now however, I may need to go back and add a few details about their relationship. I mean there is more coming - a lot more where their friendship is put on full display but maybe I need to toss in some now so it makes sense later.

 

Finally, on advice - well here is my take, I am not good enough by half to ignore advice from others. Same at work, I am one of the more experienced prosecutors - but my boss can and does still come over in the middle of trial and offer useful suggestion. Rather than be offended, I try to listen with an open mind. I may not use the suggestions but it is only if I have a solid reason for NOT listening to it. Same here. I don't promise to use everything you suggest - otherwise we might right exactly the same - but everything you say has merit and I appreciate them all. In order to know it is good or bad, I need to reflect on what I did and why. THAT all by itself is great stuff. Even if in the end I stick to what I did.

 

I operate on the same principle when I offer advice - it is helpful great, if not no problem either.

 

Thanks again for everything. you are a godsend

 

 

[MikeL]

Here's a link for chapter 7 of Second Shot, "Three's a Crowd". I didn't see an announcement elsewhere.

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Here's a link for chapter 7 of Second Shot, "Three's a Crowd". I didn't see an announcement elsewhere.

 

 

Thanks Mike,

 

I know there is the announcement section and I have used it for some of the other chapters, but in all honesty I feel . . . I don't know - cheesy? too self promoting? I don't know it just feels too much like rah rah rah me me me. Especially if I post two or three times a week - most of this is written, it is a matter of just editing and posting. In choosing not to do an announcement, I was going to do them two at a time so when I post 8 i will put links to both.

 

But again thanks for doing this.

 

Andy

[MikeL]

Thanks Mike,

 

I know there is the announcement section and I have used it for some of the other chapters, but in all honesty I feel . . . I don't know - cheesy? too self promoting? I don't know it just feels too much like rah rah rah me me me. Especially if I post two or three times a week - most of this is written, it is a matter of just editing and posting. In choosing not to do an announcement, I was going to do them two at a time so when I post 8 i will put links to both.

 

But again thanks for doing this.

 

Andy

 

There's no need to feel like there's something wrong with promoting your own story. More important, the announcement function is there for a reason...for readers to be informed. I very nearly overlooked the new chapter. I, for one, would appreciate an announcement.

 

I even promote my poetry in my signature line, so every time I post on any subject, there's a link I hope someone will click on. That's why I write poetry...for people to read. You should consider setting up signature with a link to your stories.

[MikeL]

Just read Chapter 7 and enjoyed it immensely. Jason and Peter are living charmed lives for now, keeping their relationship under wraps despite Wendy's pushy nature and the subject of their conversations. Let's just hope Jason's new understanding with her remains intact.

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Just read Chapter 7 and enjoyed it immensely. Jason and Peter are living charmed lives for now, keeping their relationship under wraps despite Wendy's pushy nature and the subject of their conversations. Let's just hope Jason's new understanding with her remains intact.

 

Things change is all I can say.

 

Though a certain person who shall remain nameless but who has been really helpful has made a few suggestions - he is beta reading for me - so I might need to add a couple sections to what I have written which might take a bit of time.

 

On the bright side - well bright side for me that is - I kinda start vacation today - I have to go to work on Monday but technically I am on leave so as soon as I am done I can bolt - so I plan to tie up a few loose ends and get it out to some people to read for me. I think it has gotten better for all the suggestion folks have offered.

 

Thanks for reading Mike, and I promise to put links in here after. [or i can just shoot you a note - depends on how modest I feel.

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Sorry to do this, but it is looking more and more like I need to take down my story. I am taking a class on novel writing that has as a goal preparing to submit a story for publication. As part of the class I had to submit two ideas for for the novel I wanted to work on. The first one I gave was the one I though I would focus on for class - a fantasy novel I had been working on for a while. Since I was required to submit two, it was easier to submit an idea I had put some work into, so I submitted Second Shot - using a different title at the time - as my second idea. All along I expect to focus on idea one and this was just to fulfill my assignment requirement.

 

Of course after reviewing both ideas, the instructor suggests I focus on Second Shot not the one I expected to use. He said there is a better market for this type of story, that fantasy submissions are flooding the market and Second Shot is a more manageable submission than a multi-book fantasy story.

 

After asking around on GA and elsewhere it has been strongly suggested I not only stop posting, but I take down the entire story if I have designs on trying to get it published. I was told publishers are not nearly as interested in something that is already posted somewhere for free. Even if I take it down, if it was completed, they will still likely reject it. So now I am going over my options and tying to decide what to do; use the fantasy story I wanted for class despite the lower odds of being published or take the instructor's advice and go with this story as my class assignment. I am not sure what I am going to do yet, I want to explain the situation to my instructor - i.e. that I started posting idea two on here to get feed back on my writing expecting I would not be using it for class - as well as speak to a friend of mine who has published a dozen or so books in her career. She and I are having lunch on Wednesday. Right now, however, the odds on favor is I take down the story and use it for class.

 

If I go that route, I apologize for being ignorant of the dos and don'ts on posting on GA and being published. I am not happy about starting and stopping like this, especially after all the great support and feedback I have received so far. It feels like I used the site to get something I needed then turned my back on the community once I got it. It wasn't my intention to do that, in fact i was planning to post the entire story, use the feed back I received to make it better, then seek publication. As I said, I was told that approach will really hurt my chances.

 

Maybe it is the height of hubris to expect I can get published, but I am taking the class with that goal in mind so doing something counter productive to that goal seems foolish. I can either dropped the class or do what they suggest. I am going to do the latter, it is just a matter of which story I pursue.

 

Thanks for reading so far and feel free to send me nasty PM's for emails or doing this.

 

Andy

[KJames]

Sorry to do this, but it is looking more and more like I need to take down my story. I am taking a class on novel writing that has as a goal preparing to submit a story for publication. As part of the class I had to submit two ideas for for the novel I wanted to work on. The first one I gave was the one I though I would focus on for class - a fantasy novel I had been working on for a while. Since I was required to submit two, it was easier to submit an idea I had put some work into, so I submitted Second Shot - using a different title at the time - as my second idea. All along I expect to focus on idea one and this was just to fulfill my assignment requirement.

 

Of course after reviewing both ideas, the instructor suggests I focus on Second Shot not the one I expected to use. He said there is a better market for this type of story, that fantasy submissions are flooding the market and Second Shot is a more manageable submission than a multi-book fantasy story.

 

After asking around on GA and elsewhere it has been strongly suggested I not only stop posting, but I take down the entire story if I have designs on trying to get it published. I was told publishers are not nearly as interested in something that is already posted somewhere for free. Even if I take it down, if it was completed, they will still likely reject it. So now I am going over my options and tying to decide what to do; use the fantasy story I wanted for class despite the lower odds of being published or take the instructor's advice and go with this story as my class assignment. I am not sure what I am going to do yet, I want to explain the situation to my instructor - i.e. that I started posting idea two on here to get feed back on my writing expecting I would not be using it for class - as well as speak to a friend of mine who has published a dozen or so books in her career. She and I are having lunch on Wednesday. Right now, however, the odds on favor is I take down the story and use it for class.

 

If I go that route, I apologize for being ignorant of the dos and don'ts on posting on GA and being published. I am not happy about starting and stopping like this, especially after all the great support and feedback I have received so far. It feels like I used the site to get something I needed then turned my back on the community once I got it. It wasn't my intention to do that, in fact i was planning to post the entire story, use the feed back I received to make it better, then seek publication. As I said, I was told that approach will really hurt my chances.

 

Maybe it is the height of hubris to expect I can get published, but I am taking the class with that goal in mind so doing something counter productive to that goal seems foolish. I can either dropped the class or do what they suggest. I am going to do the latter, it is just a matter of which story I pursue.

 

Thanks for reading so far and feel free to send me nasty PM's for emails or doing this.

 

Andy

 

Andy, I will use this time and opportunity to let you know that I've also been enjoying the story. (immensely so) The situations are believable as are the characters, and it does make a nice break from all the fantasy and sci-fi I usually read--to those authors: Not that there's anything wrong with those stories.

 

Hopefully, once you receive your first official rejection notice (pats you on your shoulder) {seldom is anyone published on a first story attempt}, we'll see the rest of Second Shot?

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Hopefully, once you receive your first official rejection notice (pats you on your shoulder) {seldom is anyone published on a first story attempt}, we'll see the rest of Second Shot?

 

Thanks for the encouragement [the first part that I cut out] and for the realistic summation of what is happening. That is my struggle, is it realistic to expect it will be published. Probably not, but if I don't follow through [assuming I decide to go with this and not my original choice] I am wasting my time with the class - at least that is what I am telling myself and I am sticking to it.

 

Thanks again for the note.

 

Andy

[AnytaSunday]

Okay, well, I will just leave a quick note this time. I don't know when I'll next see more of Second Shot, but I have enjoyed reading the first eight chapers.

 

I liked chapter eight, although to me it felt very much like a transitionary chapter. Not a bad thing, just a feeling I have--it's setting up for the next big thing. It reminded the reader again of what the main conflict is for Jason.

 

I wish you all the best for this in your course if you decide to use it.

 

Sweet,

 

Anyta

[MikeL]

Andy, I have really enjoyed Second Shot and am disappointed I won't be ale to read the rest of it any time soon. I think your best option is to do what the instructor suggests. You will at least appeal to him with that decision. The question of whether a first novel can get published seems secondary; either it will or it won't. You are a student of novel writing...not yet a novelist. Give the education thing your best shot. Publication can come later and somehow, I think it will come.

 

Best wishes. Mike

Edited August 23, 2010 by MikeL

[jar1945]

Andy- I hope you get published but I am really into the story and now I feel kind of ripped off. What will happen to Jason? What will happen to Peter? Want to send me qucik summary? Would that be bad? If so: jar1945@aol.com would be very ready to receive it.

thanks,

JAR

[heartzeal]

Congratulations!

 

 

So how long before its available in print?

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Andy, I have really enjoyed Second Shot and am disappointed I won't be ale to read the rest of it any time soon. I think your best option is to do what the instructor suggests. You will at least appeal to him with that decision. The question of whether a first novel can get published seems secondary; either it will or it won't. You are a student of novel writing...not yet a novelist. Give the education thing your best shot. Publication can come later and somehow, I think it will come.

 

Best wishes. Mike

 

Mike you are something else - where can I find ten more good people like you? Seriously, thanks for your encouragement, it makes me feel better about whatever I decide.

 

Andy

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Congratulations!

 

 

So how long before its available in print?

 

Congrats are WAY too premature, this is just a class I am taking to try to get published, as one poster noted, it is hard to get into print so there is no guarantee it will ever get there. If not I will make sure to post it back here - again all this assumes I am going to work on this for the class - it looks that way but I am not decided yet.

 

Andy

[Nephylim]

Hun, I'm disppointed, of course I am, I was totally enjoying the story HOWEVER, I think it is fantastic that you are being ambitious about your writing and wouldn't dream of whinging about that. I am hopeful that I will get to the read the whole story in print sometimes soon so you had better keep me informed so I can pre order it on Amazon

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Hun, I'm disppointed, of course I am, I was totally enjoying the story HOWEVER, I think it is fantastic that you are being ambitious about your writing and wouldn't dream of whinging about that. I am hopeful that I will get to the read the whole story in print sometimes soon so you had better keep me informed so I can pre order it on Amazon

 

Nothing is decided yet, got a few days to decide still. But thanks for the encouragement.

 

Andy

[jian_sierra]

You threatened to do this with my story at some point but didn't had the guts to actually do it. Well I am pretty gutsy so I'm gonna do it!

 

I am opening a poll on whether Andy will continue posting Second Shot or not so please put in your votes. My vote is - he will continue posting because he love us so much and won't keep us hanging just like that.

 

Take that Mr. Andy!

[AnytaSunday]

hehehe, I think at the rate and amount you write in a day, Andy (judging by blogs and responses to stories) In eight weeks you could write yourself another story hovering the 70,000 mark. Question is, when do you need to use it for your class?

 

A good challenge though, don't you think?

 

I'm too much of a wimp to vote either way, because I see both sides.

[Andrew Q Gordon]

You threatened to do this with my story at some point but didn't had the guts to actually do it. Well I am pretty gutsy so I'm gonna do it!

 

I am opening a poll on whether Andy will continue posting Second Shot or not so please put in your votes. My vote is - he will continue posting because he love us so much and won't keep us hanging just like that.

 

Take that Mr. Andy!

 

Too much of a wimp or too nice when you asked me not to?

 

But I have taken worse beatings in my time so lets see how it goes.

 

One thing, if you are relying on me doing it JUST to prove you wrong - fugetaboutit - I maybe be ornery but I am not pigheaded . This will play out as it is meant to and we will go from there. But nice try and thanks for trying to push me - I feel the love

[Andrew Q Gordon]

hehehe, I think at the rate and amount you write in a day, Andy (judging by blogs and responses to stories) In eight weeks you could write yourself another story hovering the 70,000 mark. Question is, when do you need to use it for your class?

 

A good challenge though, don't you think?

 

I'm too much of a wimp to vote either way, because I see both sides.

 

Anyta,

 

I am sure I could but right now I have too many things floating around. TO work on something new for class would be difficult, esp if I want to keep posting this one. I started this in Nov '09 and didn't start to post it until Aug so I had a ton of time to work on it, edit, go back etc , and even still there are things that need work. Not sure I am up for starting from scratch. Besides, I am locked into the two choices I submitted. Any new idea, would end up here not in the class.

 

But thanks for the suggestion. It is a good one.

 

Andy

[AnytaSunday]

Heya Andy,

 

Chapter Nine was great. And here's WHY:

 

In this one, especially in the scene at the skating rink, we get to see another side to Peter--we learn a bit more of WHO he is and hints at his past. I loved his interaction with Bryce (it was a good show of friendship)--at first though, I must admit, I thought there might be a bit of jealousy brewing. But Jason seems to be taking his friendship really well.

 

I like also how Jason and Peter have issues regarding money. In many relationships money can cause issues, and having it in this story adds more realism. I have a feeling that things might get evened out pretty soon, if Jason gets cut of from financial support from his parents. THAT would be interesting to see how it affects Jason. (All speculation of course--I'm a chronic guesser when I read things.)

 

 

I ANTICIPATE Jason's coming out very soon. I hope this happens before the end of the first third of book. Because I imagine this and the way it's handled is the crux of your story. And that threshold of a journey for Jason, from whence he cannot return... STAKES are higher.

 

 

Um, as for nitpicks... they probably aren't so helpful at this point. BUT just read over this page--I think it probably explains it better than I have:

 

http://research-writ...ialogue_to_life

 

I'm happy that for the foreseeable future you will continue posting this story. Yay, I'm sure that makes a lot of people happy.

 

Looking forward to the next installement should it come up,

 

Anyta