Are you out of the closet or not?

[colinian]

Yes and No.

 

Yes, I'm totally out of the closet.

No, I don't wear a sign that says "I'm gay!"

My philosophy is "Someone asks, then I'll tell."

 

Colin

[John Galaor]

My entire family knows I'm gay. My closest friend, as well as the group we hung out with, all pretty much knew. Sometimes it can be really fun coming out...

 

I was walking. These dudes were with some girl. They asked me if I thought this girl was "effable". I said, "I wouldn't know, because I only eff guys." The looks on those guys faces was absolutely hilarious!

 

I first came out to my family when I was about...14? I was pretty open about my crush on David Boreanaz and Chad Michael Murray, and I'd rent gay movies like The Broken Hearts Club(barf) and Get Real(really good movie). I had my first gay acquaintance when I was 15- we werent close but it was cool to have that.

Here's the thing about me, Tet. I was a pretty effeminate kid growing up. Then my voice deepened at about 17 and my shoulders got broad. Now people generally assume I'm straight unless I tell them. It's pretty funny. I still just assume people figure I'm gay because that was how it was when I was a teenager.

I was at a bar with my friend Sherry, and this guy asked if I was her boyfriend. I told him no, I'm gay. He basically told me I didn't look gay. It's still kinda weird that I no longer read as effeminate. It's not any particular effort I put into it- I didn't need to "prove" I was masculine, and it's not something I aspire to at all, but people just kinda assume that based on what I look like.

 

In general, the stereotype of gay is the effeminate one.

The guys that looked masculine and had manly manners are not considered gays.

[Prince Duchess]

I am out of the closet to immediate family and most of my friends know. Coming out is always a hard process and takes a lot of guts to do. Some people would say I had it easier with a father who is out and is happily married but for me it was still difficult for me to tell him. And I think the reason is because you just dont know how a person is gonna react we all hear horror stories about what's gone horrific wrong but it's not always the case. After telling my dad of course he was ok with it, it definitely has brought us closer as father/son relationship goes. The embarrassing part about it was I couldn't tell him face to face I sent him a letter. The day he got it he called me and immediately made plans for us to hang out and we talked. I still haven't told my entire family. Mostly, because I know they're on my moms side of thinking when it comes to sexuality and the whole your father cheated situation. But, they need to get over that. As far as people who wanna know if they have the balls enough to ask I'll tell them.

 

Kinda sorta not really but yes. Ok, so my parents know and so does my brother (but my brother doesn't really count). My doctor knows because during my annual physical I always get the sex question. I told her the truth and she asked 'guys or girls?' and I said guys. So she knows. One other adult that I really trust knows also. I never came out in high school because even though I wasn't a pushover and strong enough to defend myself, a group of retarded rednecks can make your life miserable. In college, sigh, not yet, sorta. When I go to visit my boyfriend up at his college everyone there knows I'm gay. I don't care that they know because they don't really know me and I have a very masculine look that says 'I'm no pussy fem-boy gay'. At my own college, I'm not out yet but I feel some of my girl friends may suspect based on some of the things they say but I don't know for sure. I plan to come out in college, but I need to prove my manliness and masculinity first to them so they don't look at me as the pussy faggot, but as the normal bro who likes everything we do but just happens to be gay.

 

I wrote a more detailed version here. Link.

 

 

You don't have to prove anything to anybody, you know. If they have a problem with your sexuality that's there problem. With that being said you only know when you should come out but you don't have to prove your not a butch queen or trade. Just be you and people will love or hate you for it.

[myself_i_must_remake]

There is a second gay stereotype: the gay who "passes" and says shitty things about more feminine gays. I've met quite a few. They've been all around the same age, and they all have insecurity issues.

 

There was some confusion, somewhere along the line, about what constitutes masculinity. First and foremost, it's a perception, at least the way I see it used in common parlance. When a gay says, "I'm masculine," he means, "I pass for straight." Meanwhile, of the more abstract, less superficial qualities of masculinity that men allege to have--courage, willingness to go against the herd, strongheadedness--I see very little. So many men, gay or not, work to make sure they don't commit one of an increasing number of masculine faux pas so other guys let them remain part of the herd.

 

The status quo argument is a fallacy. To do something because "that's the way things are" is a non-argument. The "real world?" By that people often mean corporate America. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call corporate America or any of its silly off-shoots the "real world." It's the exact opposite: a society running around a set of rules designed to benefit a certain group of people.

 

Like so much, it's another song and dance, but one with high stakes.

 

 

[Prince Duchess]

There is a second gay stereotype: the gay who "passes" and says shitty things about more feminine gays. I've met quite a few. They've been all around the same age, and they all have insecurity issues.

 

There was some confusion, somewhere along the line, about what constitutes masculinity. First and foremost, it's a perception, at least the way I see it used in common parlance. When a gay says, "I'm masculine," he means, "I pass for straight." Meanwhile, of the more abstract, less superficial qualities of masculinity that men allege to have--courage, willingness to go against the herd, strongheadedness--I see very little. So many men, gay or not, work to make sure they don't commit one of an increasing number of masculine faux pas so other guys let them remain part of the herd.

 

The status quo argument is a fallacy. To do something because "that's the way things are" is a non-argument. The "real world?" By that people often mean corporate America. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call corporate America or any of its silly off-shoots the "real world." It's the exact opposite: a society running around a set of rules designed to benefit a certain group of people.

 

Like so much, it's another song and dance, but one with high stakes.

 

So are you in or out of the closet?

[myself_i_must_remake]

I'm out.

 

Girls usually peg me right away.

 

Other guys usually say, "Something seemed different," but don't think of it as gay-acting until I tell them. Then: "Oh, I see it now."

 

 

[Daisy139]

I"m out as bi to my brother and my boyfriend. My boyfriend is a bit weird about it, but since we're monogamous it doesn't really matter much most of the time. My brother is bi himself and is ok with it. Otherwise... none of my friends are close or open-minded enough that I would feel ok about telling them.

[Tipdin]

Yes, I am very much out of the closet. I owned a business that catered to other gay business owners. I was quite public about myself, my business, and the public support that my company offered to gay people. I have always been fairly public with my gay activism. Everyone knows that I'm gay.

 

Locally, my partner is a rather well known person as well. He brought PFLAG to Minnesota and for many years owned a therapy clinic that took over many of the services of a gay community services organization that went out of business. We were sort of the gay power couple in the community for a while so everyone knew about us.

 

My partner has no family, but my family is humongous and has always been extremely supportive. Many of them worked for me, helping other gay business owners.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Tipdin

[West Coast Dude]

A few have suspected at work, but I'm constantly flirting with the girls, and talking about the perfect women (my close friend who's str8 and Im' out too) I use his description. ahahah,

[Eros]

Hell yeah I'm out! I've been out for let's say... about two years or so, officially. First person I came out to was my best friend Casey. After that, I slowly started tip-toeing out the door of my closet. The only thing that was really getting in my way of completely being myself, was my mom. I was terrified of her finding out I like burritos and not just tacos. Buuut, one day she came home and confronted me about it, because she had heard a rumor that her son liked boys. At first, I was going to deny it. Of course, right? Well, I decided, "What the hell. I don't give a sh♥t anymore", so I didn't deny it. She at first asked if I was gay, but I said no. I had a girlfriend at the time, anyway, who I very, very much liked

 

So, since then, it's been quite a ride. At school, people know. It quickly got around that there was someone different in a rather backwards world, which I'd like to call my high school. I wouldn't say people were, or are, generally accepting, of course. But, the ones who aren't never say anything to me about it. For one, I'm very well-liked. And two, whenever someone DOES try and start something about it, I let them know I'm not just going to sit there and take it. I'm pretty quick about putting people in their place, and it's really made a difference with how people treat me. I'm overall respected. And, it's kind of riveting to be the only openly bisexual guy at my school. I really hoped to help others who were or are afraid to come out. And, the funny thing is, I seem to make a lot of straight guys question which team they play on

 

As for my mom, my sexuality isn't something we really talk about. I don't really mind, because I've decided to just agree to disagree. I told her from the beginning, it has nothing to do with the gender, but the person. And since I've come out, I've only brought one guy home, and she didn't like it, so I haven't since. But she jumps up and down when I happen to bring home a gal Silly, I think.

 

So, basically I'm out to everyone, really. It's not something I brag about, but I won't deny if I'm asked. My family is accepting, with the exception of my mom. Friends love it. So, it's all good

[B1ue]

There is a second gay stereotype: the gay who "passes" and says shitty things about more feminine gays. I've met quite a few. They've been all around the same age, and they all have insecurity issues.

 

Homophobia is in general a confusing term. While some who are homophobic are genuinely offended/angered/sickened by homosexual acts, just as many, if not more, are less bothered by those acts but exteremely bothered by people acting outside their accustomed gender roles.

 

You're right that most of these guys probably have insecurity issues. A lot of people do. They probably also are quite weirded out by a guy acting like a girl, or vise versa. They may think, on some level, that they are doing it on purpose. After all, they can pass, so why not everyone?

 

The status quo argument is a fallacy. To do something because "that's the way things are" is a non-argument. The "real world?" By that people often mean corporate America. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call corporate America or any of its silly off-shoots the "real world." It's the exact opposite: a society running around a set of rules designed to benefit a certain group of people.

I'm out at work, and I have a corporate job. It really doesn't have a big impact. I'm not shy about saying that I'm gay, but it's just not something that comes up often. I'll mention an ex-boyfriend in passing, or something like that, and that will be it. I'm not particular interested in my coworker's sex lives, so why would I talk about mine?

 

There was this story on the radio once, that a friend of mine passed to me, about how a guy on the first day of a newjob is introduced to one of his coworkers, who tells him "I hope you don't mind, but I'm gay." The guy responds back, "I f**ked my wife in the a** last night, hope you don't mind." When my friend first told this story to a class of hers, about gay literature, the teacher came down on her, bemoaning the guy in the story as treating homosexuality as a form of kinky sex. But the thing is, to someone who isn't homosexual, that's exactly what it is. And your particular sexual kinks are for most aspects of society just not relevent.

 

I don't pass for straight. I don't try to either. But being gay isn't something I wear on my sleeve.

[Marzipan]

I was only out to my closest friends and now at work by accident. That worked out fine though, nobody is interested

 

I'm not gonna hide my partner from anyone, no matter which sex they are. So far the only serious relationship I have had was with a man for more than 10 years, so it hasn't been an issue yet.

 

I don't really care about what other people think about me, but I do think it's my right to keep my personal issues private and choose what and when I tell people.

[TetRefine]

There is a second gay stereotype: the gay who "passes" and says shitty things about more feminine gays. I've met quite a few. They've been all around the same age, and they all have insecurity issues.

 

There was some confusion, somewhere along the line, about what constitutes masculinity. First and foremost, it's a perception, at least the way I see it used in common parlance. When a gay says, "I'm masculine," he means, "I pass for straight." Meanwhile, of the more abstract, less superficial qualities of masculinity that men allege to have--courage, willingness to go against the herd, strongheadedness--I see very little. So many men, gay or not, work to make sure they don't commit one of an increasing number of masculine faux pas so other guys let them remain part of the herd.

 

The status quo argument is a fallacy. To do something because "that's the way things are" is a non-argument. The "real world?" By that people often mean corporate America. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call corporate America or any of its silly off-shoots the "real world." It's the exact opposite: a society running around a set of rules designed to benefit a certain group of people.

 

Like so much, it's another song and dance, but one with high stakes.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but what constitutes masculinity is almost universally the same anywhere you go. Ask anyone walking down the street what masculinity means and you will most likely get the same answers over and over again. Its a very narrow definition, and not considered all that broad by the general public. Now whether that is right or wrong is a matter of opinion. Also, just because a gay guy is masculine does not mean he is insecure or trying to become straight. I hate the fact that some of the more effeminate gays criticize more "straight acting" gay guys for supposedly looking down on the more campy gays, yet they turn around on us and say "oh he's not one of us, he's a traitor". Some of us were raised in environments where being "campy" was not an acceptable choice. I was raised in a very competitive environment where the strong got ahead and the weak and "un-manly" got left behind. I learned from a young age how to act and what I had to do to get ahead. I learned to become competitive and to do what I had to to get to the top and become the best. I never saw the effeminate, "gay acting" guys get there, but the masculine, "straight" ones always did. So I molded myself accordingly and got to where I am today because of it. Do I sometimes look at effeminate guys with a glaring eye? Yes, I do sometimes because they perpetuate the stereotype that brings us all down. Do I think that they should not be allowed to be like that? Of course not, be however you wanna be, but its not me at all.

[myself_i_must_remake]

You never really addressed what that masculinity is. Go ahead: define it for us.

 

The problem is, in your descriptions of yourself and more "effeminate" gays, you end up tying things together that don't go together.

 

I don't care that they know because they don't really know me and I have a very masculine look that says 'I'm no pussy fem-boy gay'.

 

All right so first you said that, and then when someone called you out on it, you said this:

 

Wow, where did I ever say or even imply that I was a better class of gay? You assumed something that wasn't even there.

 

Is calling an entire group of people "pussy fem-boy gay" not implying that you see yourselves as better than them, especially when you go on to say that those "perpetuate the stereotype that brings us all down"?

 

Way to blame the victim for the faults of the bullies. Gay stereotypes don't bring us down, the allegedly masculine ones do because this group of people has deemed themselves entitled to lash out at other people who don't fit their contrived ideal.

 

Things really start to fall apart when you describe your reason for being straight acting: "Some of us were raised in environments where being "campy" was not an acceptable choice. I was raised in a very competitive environment where the strong got ahead and the weak and "un-manly" got left behind. I learned from a young age how to act and what I had to do to get ahead. I learned to become competitive and to do what I had to to get to the top and become the best. . . . I molded myself accordingly and got to where I am today because of it."

 

So only masculine gays get ahead? There are no effeminate gays in prestigous positions at universities, businesses, in Hollywood, and in the arts?

 

Well hot damn. I should reconsider what schools I apply to for my PhD because I might not be masculine enough to make the cut.

 

What's most interesting about your defense of what I'm going to call by its name--internalized homophobia--is where you say you "molded yourself." It makes it sound like it's not natural in you, like it's some act of mimicry you had to pull off because it wasn't essential to you.

 

Honestly: you didn't have to tell me or us that being ostensibly gay wasn't okay in your developmental environment. We can tell already. Like so many, you took those lessons to heart and instead of asking yourself, "What's wrong with this and how can I challenge it?" you conformed to what society at large wanted, and now take out their faults on the more effeminate gays.

 

How masculine of you.

 

 

[myself_i_must_remake]

Also, from Wikipedia:

 

 

In sociology and psychology, internalized oppression is the manner in which an oppressed group comes to use against itself the methods of the oppressor. For example, sometimes members of marginalized groups hold an oppressive view toward their own group, or start to believe in negative stereotypes of themselves.

 

For example, internalized racism is when members of Group A believe that the stereotypes of Group A are true and may believe that they are less intelligent or academically inferior to other groups of people.

 

Any social group can internalize prejudice.

 

 

 

[TetRefine]

You never really addressed what that masculinity is. Go ahead: define it for us.

 

The problem is, in your descriptions of yourself and more "effeminate" gays, you end up tying things together that don't go together.

 

 

 

All right so first you said that, and then when someone called you out on it, you said this:

 

 

 

Is calling an entire group of people "pussy fem-boy gay" not implying that you see yourselves as better than them, especially when you go on to say that those "perpetuate the stereotype that brings us all down"?

 

Way to blame the victim for the faults of the bullies. Gay stereotypes don't bring us down, the allegedly masculine ones do because this group of people has deemed themselves entitled to lash out at other people who don't fit their contrived ideal.

 

Things really start to fall apart when you describe your reason for being straight acting: "Some of us were raised in environments where being "campy" was not an acceptable choice. I was raised in a very competitive environment where the strong got ahead and the weak and "un-manly" got left behind. I learned from a young age how to act and what I had to do to get ahead. I learned to become competitive and to do what I had to to get to the top and become the best. . . . I molded myself accordingly and got to where I am today because of it."

 

So only masculine gays get ahead? There are no effeminate gays in prestigous positions at universities, businesses, in Hollywood, and in the arts?

 

Well hot damn. I should reconsider what schools I apply to for my PhD because I might not be masculine enough to make the cut.

 

What's most interesting about your defense of what I'm going to call by its name--internalized homophobia--is where you say you "molded yourself." It makes it sound like it's not natural in you, like it's some act of mimicry you had to pull off because it wasn't essential to you.

 

Honestly: you didn't have to tell me or us that being ostensibly gay wasn't okay in your developmental environment. We can tell already. Like so many, you took those lessons to heart and instead of asking yourself, "What's wrong with this and how can I challenge it?" you conformed to what society at large wanted, and now take out their faults on the more effeminate gays.

 

How masculine of you.

 

 

 

Ah yes, the "internalized homophobia" argument. Whenever someone doesn't want to act like a campy queen and instead is masculine they accuse that person of being homophobic. I did not mold myself. Even if I was raised in a town of nothing but campy fem queens I would still be the way I am now. People didn't get the stereotype of gays being wimpy and weak from out of the blue. Behind every stereotype there is some degree of truth. And we as a community, for whatever reason, love to put up the people who fall into that negative stereotype as poster children, and keep the normal acting ones out of the spotlight. Yeah, thats gonna win us a lot of favor.

Edited March 28, 2011 by TetRefine

[myself_i_must_remake]

Actually I know a lot of straight-acting gays who don't insult the less masculine ones, and likewise don't get called out for internalized homophobia.

 

It's the insults that provoke that argument, and it is a valid argument. You can't just dismiss it because you've heard it before.

 

This is really frustrating because I think I made a lot of valid points, but you're just ignoring them. You probably owe some people apologies, but I'm pretty sure doing that is admitting you did something wrong, which isn't part of the masculine code. Personally I'm offended. I've likewise worked hard to get where I am, but it sounds like you're saying that if I were more masculine I would get farther. Furthermore, it sounds like you'd sooner blame me for that than the society which would make things work out that way.

 

I never said anything about straight-acting gays. I did, however, say things about those who attack the more feminine ones, and those who are straight-acting only because they try hard to be.

 

Also: you can't have any idea who you'd be in a different environment. Identity is, after all, largely learned.

 

You really have to admit the historical basis for your behavior. Back in the days of racism, the lighter skinned blacks acted poorly toward the darker skinned ones, and here we have a straight-acting gay seeing nasty things about feminine gays.

 

 

[One Cheap Suit]

TetRefine, with all due respect, your opinion of yourself may not be homophobic, but your words here certainly reveals a level of homophobia. You might not feel it, but you sure do know how to express it.

 

Edit: removed an unnecessary reference to other posts

Edited March 28, 2011 by bigdave976

[myself_i_must_remake]

I molded myself

 

I did not mold myself.

 

The crux of internalized homophobia: two opinions of yourself: love/hate.

[Arpeggio]

I'm out, then I'm not out. Let me explain:

 

Everyone knows I'm gay. It's very obvious that women don't attract me, so on that level I'm out to everyone, but when it comes being transgendered, you can say I hide it for as long as possible. Mostly for a number of reasons.

 

1. I don't like being called a freak. It happens from them all: gay, straight, or bi.
2. It hurts to have someone say that I'm wrong and just pretending.
3. People turn me down on job opportunities.
4. People tend to stop liking me after I mention it.

It's not something I have to mention, in my opinion, unless there's a potential relationship, because I'm just as much a guy as the next average guy (except my penis is bigger---joke--- ) I also live in a state that will never recognize me as a male, which makes it very difficult to get a job here. I've been looking for a year and a half. So, yeah, it's information I don't feel necessary to wave in everyone's faces. If I tell someone, it's because I trust them, or because I chose to let people know a little more about me.

 

So everyone knows I'm gay, but not everyone knows the later.

 

Wanted to add to Billy's argument, since I mentioned it: A lot of the time, guys automatically assume I'm effeminate simply by my looks, and it is rather annoying. I'm not very effeminate at all, to be honest, but I don't go out of my way to prove I'm not, because it doesn't matter what they think. I can't help that I'm androgynous, but I know who I am and I'm comfortable with myself. I can wear my hair styled or be into photography (taking pictures of a butterfly lol) while at the same time; be able to rebuild the engine of my Mustang, or go camping for two weeks.

 

Anyone making assumptions about me are looking too closely for their own good.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Arpeggio

[Y_B]

TetRefine, with all due respect, your opinion of yourself may not be homophobic, but your words here certainly reveals a level of homophobia. You might not feel it, but you sure do know how to express it.

 

Here are my 2 & 1/2 cents

 

I get Tet and if I'm not too far off, his train of thought isn't as defensive as his posts are coming through. "Phobia" is too strong for this line of discussion, if anything it's homo-dislike and I use homo in the sense of "gay" personalities and demeanors typically thought of in gay men. We can sit and argue semantics and whatnot all day but I think the general idea can be understood by everybody. It's all a clash of interest...strong interest, and big macho boy Tet here being the outspoken guy he is isn't out to get anyone or put any groups of people down. However, I also get where the end of his remarks can make people uncomfortable, so Tet, don't get so defensive about masculinity/feminimity, you don't have to keep reassuring everyone here that you're big man on campus with a low rumbling voice and a grip that can crush walnuts and whatnot . There's undoubtly much more to masculinity than strictly physical appearances and actions and there are no boxes or LABELS people fit in.

 

(Can I have my 1/2 cent back?)

 

(Btw I think I'm masculine but then again I have taken it up the backside...I wouldn't doubt that my whole school would unanimously vote that my masculinity train has left the station for that reason alone LOL)

Edited March 28, 2011 by Yang Bang

[TetRefine]

TetRefine, with all due respect, your opinion of yourself may not be homophobic, but your words here certainly reveals a level of homophobia. You might not feel it, but you sure do know how to express it.

 

Edit: removed an unnecessary reference to other posts

 

Ok fine, then I guess according to your definition I'm a f**king homophobe who hates on fem boys and actively seeks to make their life miserable. I admit in the past I was somewhat homophobic because from what I knew you were looked down upon if you were gay, and I did not want to be looked down upon. I only recently came to terms with it, and I've accepted it. I know I'm not a homophobe. Looking with a precarious eye on people who perpetuate a negative stereotype and make things harder is perfectly reasonable. I don't go out seeking to make people like this miserable. I ignore them best as I can, but sometimes you always can't because they drag you down. I know I'm not a homophobe and I really could give a flying f**k if you people think I am.

[myself_i_must_remake]

Why don't you "cast a precarious eye" on the people who've decided it's a negative stereotype? That's what we're asking. No need to fly off the handle over it.

 

You keep blaming the victims, when it's the assholes of the world who make it hard to be gay, not the gays themselves.

 

 

[B1ue]

Ok fine, then I guess according to your definition I'm a f**king homophobe who hates on fem boys and actively seeks to make their life miserable.

 

I'm not placing behavoirs on you, but yes, according to my definition of homophobia, shared by others and in fact one that I cribbed off others, you are demonstrating homophobic traits. A better word for it would probably be "gender-phobic," in that it isn't homosexuality that bothers you as much as guys acting effeminite whatever their actual sexuality.

 

I can see what you mean about such an attitude being required to get ahead in your world, and you've demonstrated that you understand in other social circles, that kind of outlook is NOT conducive to advancement, so I guess I can leave it at that.

 

Edited to add:

To be exact, it isn't that you act masculine yourself that is homophobic. That's...normal doesn't even express how utterly banal and uneccessary it should be for you to say that. How you act, the face you put to the world, isn't something that should bother anyone, but I admit there are plenty who will get on your case about it. f**k em if they can't take the joke. It's your attitude towards others and their behaviors that I'm applying the great big H word to.

 

I don't know, maybe heterophobic should be a word. It's certainly something that comes up enough, though I'm sure it'd go down about as well as "poor little rich girl" and other equivalent sayings.

[Prince Duchess]

Here are my 2 & 1/2 cents

 

I get Tet and if I'm not too far off, his train of thought isn't as defensive as his posts are coming through. "Phobia" is too strong for this line of discussion, if anything it's homo-dislike and I use homo in the sense of "gay" personalities and demeanors typically thought of in gay men. We can sit and argue semantics and whatnot all day but I think the general idea can be understood by everybody. It's all a clash of interest...strong interest, and big macho boy Tet here being the outspoken guy he is isn't out to get anyone or put any groups of people down. However, I also get where the end of his remarks can make people uncomfortable, so Tet, don't get so defensive about masculinity/feminimity, you don't have to keep reassuring everyone here that you're big man on campus with a low rumbling voice and a grip that can crush walnuts and whatnot . There's undoubtly much more to masculinity than strictly physical appearances and actions and there are no boxes or LABELS people fit in.

 

(Can I have my 1/2 cent back?)

 

(Btw I think I'm masculine but then again I have taken it up the backside...I wouldn't doubt that my whole school would unanimously vote that my masculinity train has left the station for that reason alone LOL)

I agree completely!

 

 

 

Ok fine, then I guess according to your definition I'm a f**king homophobe who hates on fem boys and actively seeks to make their life miserable. I admit in the past I was somewhat homophobic because from what I knew you were looked down upon if you were gay, and I did not want to be looked down upon. I only recently came to terms with it, and I've accepted it. I know I'm not a homophobe. Looking with a precarious eye on people who perpetuate a negative stereotype and make things harder is perfectly reasonable. I don't go out seeking to make people like this miserable. I ignore them best as I can, but sometimes you always can't because they drag you down. I know I'm not a homophobe and I really could give a flying f**k if you people think I am.

 

 

 

 

Why don't you "cast a precarious eye" on the people who've decided it's a negative stereotype? That's what we're asking. No need to fly off the handle over it.

 

You keep blaming the victims, when it's the assholes of the world who make it hard to be gay, not the gays themselves.

 

 

 

I don't normally bud into pressing issues such as these but I feel as though its killing the complete reason why this thread was started. For us all to share with each other our coming out stories and how for everyone its DIFFERENT and so that the ones that haven't mustered up the courage to come out can possibly breathe a little easier and no that it wont necessarily be the end of the world. One key part to the equation I dont think you guys are getting is that everyones home life situation is different and have different ways of thinking. It doesnt mean you have to get all caught up in your feeling because you didnt like what someone said, and you take offense to what was said. Matt never called anyone a pussy fem boy gay or whatever. He simply said thats not what he wanted to be percieved as, it never came across that he thought he was better or more masculine. He simply said he felt he wanted to show his friends that hes more masculine and manly. Nothing wrong with that, at all. That doesnt make him a homophobe, hes gay why would he hate on others like himself. Where they do that it, because its definitely not being done in 2011.

 

Now can we please go back to topic of why this thread was made, because honestly the whole argument is irritating. Were gay! Lets spread love not hate! That is all!