Paternity

[methodwriter85]

It's kind of interesting how, in a sense, Wade is a social better compared to the Crampton/Schluter family. They're rich and powerful, but they just don't have that kind of pedigree- more of just solid mid-Western affluent stock who gained a massive amount of wealth starting in the 1960's.

[Daddydavek]

Chapter 20 is up. A lot of info and background is provided setting the stage for the coming weekend....

[methodwriter85]

I was wondering when Wade was going to start talking about post-graduation plans. Someone like him would definitely be thinking about them at this point. I can buy Matt kind of going, "Woo-hoo! It's party time and I don't have to think about graduation until the spring of '02!", but Wade would already be signing up for his LSAT's, setting up internships, and reading through law school applications.

 

I also like that Tiffany is in no way interested in the kind of arrangment that Robbie/Brad/Jeanine set up when it came to rearing Generation 4, or what JP/Jeff/Isidore(later Sam) came up when it came to raising Brad's generation. Tiffany definitely seems to have more of an independent streak than that.

[centexhairysub]

I just don't understand Elizabeth Danfield, she knows her son has found out what she was doing and has the information that could cause her major problems with the SEC and others; on top of this Brad has enough information to cause all kinds of additional issues as well, then there is the issue of the Senator abusing Wade... I realize that Elizabeth has some educated guess work on Brad but does she really want to go after someone that had everything done that he did and got away with it so easily??? It just doesn't make sense to me that she would go this out of the way in dealing with the trust and the land to really piss Wade off. The sister might be a total bitch but she wouldn't have the pull with the master trust to engineer any of this, she might be helping Monster Dearest by screwing someone and trying to hurt Wade but she wouldn't yet have the pull with the bankers and others to effect the trust yet because of her age.

 

There has to be more to this land deal and the Haupts than we are seeing so far. I have done some research but can't find anything in the early 2000's in that area that involved any significant issues with land deals so not sure where this is going.

 

I do agree that Wade is the kind of person that would already be planning his graduate work, I am sort of suprised that he wouldn't look at Stanford law school. The rankings for law schools that year had Yale on top, Stanford is second, Harvard is third, Columbia was fourth, and Cal-Berkeley was seventh. Virginia was at thirteen and Georgetown was fourteen. I just can't see Wade going to a second tier school like Virginia or Georgetown with what I would assume his grades and extra's would be. Plus, didn't the older lawyer just warn him about staying out of Virginia for the forceable future in business; would law school be much diffrent??? And yes, I do know that Georgetown is in DC but that is just too close to Virginia and in the center of Elizabeth Danfield's powerbase.

 

I guess I am probably going to be one of the few that is going to take this stand, but I do sort of hope that Tiffany and Jeanine to end up back together. I don't know why, but I do think they worked well together until the whole let's get pregnate issue came up and then Jeanine made the decision to play with fire but I do wonder how much it upset her knowing that Tiffany was going to be sleeping with Wade and Matt, who are so much closer to her age than Jeanine... The fear of aging and growing older does some strange things to people.

 

Great chapter Mark....

Edited March 7, 2012 by centexhairysub

[methodwriter85]

It's generally frowned upon for people to do to their undergrad and post-grad work in the same place. You're supposed to get exposed to different ideas and the like. *waits for Private Tim to tell me how I am absolutely wrong on this one*

 

I was thinking that Georgetown and Virginia were the safety back-ups. Yes, Wade probably doesn't have to worry, but this is Generation Y. The Baby Bust is over. Gen Xers like Tim benefited from less competition, but I knew people who got rejected from their second and third choice schools.

 

And...I don't know- here's my feeling on this. If Wade really wants to do a power struggle for control of the family, he can't really do it from California if everyone else is in Virginia. And if Wade is serious about an eventual political career, it would seem dumb for him not to end up in D.C. at some point.

Edited March 7, 2012 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

I just don't understand Elizabeth Danfield, she knows her son has found out what she was doing and has the information that could cause her major problems with the SEC and others; on top of this Brad has enough information to cause all kinds of additional issues as well, then there is the issue of the Senator abusing Wade... I realize that Elizabeth has some educated guess work on Brad but does she really want to go after someone that had everything done that he did and got away with it so easily??? It just doesn't make sense to me that she would go this out of the way in dealing with the trust and the land to really piss Wade off. The sister might be a total bitch but she wouldn't have the pull with the master trust to engineer any of this, she might be helping Monster Dearest by screwing someone and trying to hurt Wade but she wouldn't yet have the pull with the bankers and others to effect the trust yet because of her age.

 

There has to be more to this land deal and the Haupts than we are seeing so far. I have done some research but can't find anything in the early 2000's in that area that involved any significant issues with land deals so not sure where this is going.

 

I do agree that Wade is the kind of person that would already be planning his graduate work, I am sort of suprised that he wouldn't look at Stanford law school. The rankings for law schools that year had Yale on top, Stanford is second, Harvard is third, Columbia was fourth, and Cal-Berkeley was seventh. Virginia was at thirteen and Georgetown was fourteen. I just can't see Wade going to a second tier school like Virginia or Georgetown with what I would assume his grades and extra's would be. Plus, didn't the older lawyer just warn him about staying out of Virginia for the forceable future in business; would law school be much diffrent??? And yes, I do know that Georgetown is in DC but that is just too close to Virginia and in the center of Elizabeth Danfield's powerbase.

 

I guess I am probably going to be one of the few that is going to take this stand, but I do sort of hope that Tiffany and Jeanine to end up back together. I don't know why, but I do think they worked well together until the whole let's get pregnate issue came up and then Jeanine made the decision to play with fire but I do wonder how much it upset her knowing that Tiffany was going to be sleeping with Wade and Matt, who are so much closer to her age than Jeanine... The fear of aging and growing older does some strange things to people.

 

Great chapter Mark....

 

What an excellent post! Let me see if I can comment without giving too much away. There's a bit more to this land deal, as you mentioned, but nothing you'll find in the history books. This part of the story is pure fiction, other than the fact that there was a lot of development going on up in Idaho.

 

Elizabeth Danfield strikes me as the kind of person who has lived with a knife over her head for so long (with Alexandra Carmichael) that she's almost immune to fear from it. It's become part of her existence, and something she has to manage, pushing those who have her in their grips, but never too far.

 

Wade's college choices could certainly change, but I think that anything in the top 20 is within his quality range. The lawyers advised him against doing business in Virginia, but it is still his home state (and DC is his home town), so I don't think that would distract him from attending UVA or Georgetown. He certainly could go to Stanford, but it is generally considered bad form to get your graduate degree and undergraduate degree from the same school. Wade would be quite aware of that, and as it's even more important in academia, JP would certainly counsel him in that regard as well.

 

I love the way you express the realization on the trauma of aging. You may very well be right about Jeanine.

[Mark Arbour]

It's generally frowned upon for people to do to their undergrad and post-grad work in the same place. You're supposed to get exposed to different ideas and the like. *waits for Private Tim to tell me how I am absolutely wrong on this one*

 

I was thinking that Georgetown and Virginia were the safety back-ups. Yes, Wade probably doesn't have to worry, but this is Generation Y. The Baby Bust is over. Gen Xers like Tim benefited from less competition, but I knew people who got rejected from their second and third choice schools.

 

And...I don't know- here's my feeling on this. If Wade really wants to do a power struggle for control of the family, he can't really do it from California if everyone else is in Virginia. And if Wade is serious about an eventual political career, it would seem dumb for him not to end up in D.C. at some point.

 

GA is running as fast as Tonto with an attack of gout tonight, so I was in the process of posting when you did. I think you're right about Wade being in DC, if that's his goal, but I"m not sure that it is. I also don't think that someone like him will really have a problem getting into any school he wants to. Consider that George W. Bush went to Yale.

[methodwriter85]

Yeah, but in any event, I think Gen Y had it drilled into their head to apply to as many schools as possible. At least four, but I knew kids who did five or six. That feels realistic.

 

If he winds up going to Columbia, Matt can work for Wall Street. That could be cool. Matt's getting a business degree, right? Isn't getting an MBA different- like it's suggested that you go into the field for a few years rather than just go straight into an MBA program? I heard someone say that was expected for Harvard Business school people.

 

As for Georgetown and UVA- maybe he just plain feels an affinity for the schools? I knew people who were Ivy League-caliber that did not go Ivy League because they felt like they were a better fit with the other schools. Georgetown and UVA both have pretty outstanding reputations, and I'm sure Wade has friends who've gone there. And I wouldn't be surprised if Wade's Tobacco Tidewater family had a long history of donations to UVA.

Edited March 7, 2012 by methodwriter85

[mmike1969]

Re: E Danfield

 

Why you ask?

 

I can give you 500 million reasons why she is acting like she is. This is not pocket money, not something you can just forget about if you lose.

 

Here's a thought: what if Mrs Danfield borrowed heavily from the master trust? She's now down $500M in value. You borrow that kind of cash, the banks will want it back.

 

Will be shocking if she bought real estate on borrowed trust funds when the economy / stock markets / real estate markets tank heavily from 2000-2008.

[George Richard]

If he winds up going to Columbia, Matt can work for Wall Street. That could be cool. Matt's getting a business degree, right? Isn't getting an MBA different- like it's suggested that you go into the field for a few years rather than just go straight into an MBA program? I heard someone say that was expected for Harvard Business school

 

. I think Stanford is one of the schools that doesn't offer undergraduate business degrees. And you don't have to go to a school in New York to work on Wall Street. Chicago Booth and Wharton (Penn) are both strong in finance. And Harvard, Yale, Tuck (Dartmouth) send plenty of grads there too.

[methodwriter85]

Actually, I mean if Wade gets into Columbia, Matt could work at Wall Street or something. Although that does beg the question- if Matt isn't getting a degree in business, what is he getting his degree in? Economics?

[George Richard]

Actually, I mean if Wade gets into Columbia, Matt could work at Wall Street or something. Although that does beg the question- if Matt isn't getting a degree in business, what is he getting his degree in? Economics?

 

As far as getting into a good business school, under grad major would make little difference. They assume that they will teach you what you need to know. What's important is the total package you bring--why you want to go, what you plan to do, recommendations, grades, test scores, accomplishments.... As Mark said, given his connections, Matt would likely get in anywhere. His choIce of school would be influenced by where Wade is (unless Mark decides to separate them), whether the school is good in the area he wants to work in, and so on. So what do we know about Matt's interests? Does he want to work with Robbie? Or Brad? Or head off into some new direction of his own?

[centexhairysub]

I'm not sure that Matt is the Wall Street type. I spent quite a bit of time in New York in the late 90's and early 00's and most of the brokers, traders, etc. that I knew were total assholes. I admit that I didn't really know the top level but more the guys in the middle level that were fighting to make it to the top, Matt could damn near start at the lower end of the top of the ladder... I know that Matt can be self-centered at times, but not to the level of the guys on Wall Street during that era, and don't even get me started on the women. As Stef and Brad have proven, you don't have to be based or even really work in New York to reach the top of the field in finance. If Wade choose Berkeley, then Matt could go through the Business program there, in the early 00's it was ten to thirteen depending on which list you go by.

 

I also don't think that Wade is really looking to ever be part of the Washington DC political scene, at least not in the near future. He may have helped his dad in his current election, but afterall, he fled the area to the west coast to get away from his family. No matter what, if he went back to the area, he would be involved with them, more than I think he wants to be. Wade does like politics and going through law school is a good way to make the pre-requisite contacts you may need later, although with Wade's background that reallly isn't probably necessary. It would seem to me that Wade's more moderate Republicanism would work better on the California political scene than anywhere in Virginia or that area with the much more rabid conservatives to appease and kiss up to.

 

Another consideration for Wade is Tiffany and the Riley, I don't think that Tiffany is going to be really happy moving east. Plus, I really could see her ending back up with Jeanine, keeping my fingers crossed. If that happens, then I really can't see Wade going back east for any period of time and being that far away from his son.

 

Back to the issue of Elizabeth seeming to be screwing with Wade on the matter of the Master Trust, if she is doing so. I don't think she would have been able to borrow much money against a Master trust like someone suggested. Plus, why would she have needed to do so, she has just as much or more money as the trust, at least that would be my presumption. With a Master trust that feeds into other trust or that have multiple beneficiaries; not even the designated trustee can borrow money against a trust like this. If the banks allowed it, then they would be liable even more than the trustee that broke their fiduciary responsibilities. If it is the type of trust that Wade now has, money can be borrowed against it but a Master trust is a different type of animal. Now, using one trust to pay more of the banking fees or other fees, probably could be done but there would be issues of liability with that as well, as Elizabeth and the bank may soon learn.

[methodwriter85]

Right, I just think it would be interesting to have Matt working in Wall Street, up to the point where the financial meltdown happens.

 

I get the feeling JJ's ultimate destiny would be New York City, so it'd be cool to have some people there with him.

Edited March 7, 2012 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

I can see Matt majoring in Economics, but I don't see him as a New Yorker.

[methodwriter85]

I figured he might experiment with it for a few years, but you got a point. I can see JJ so clearly loving New York City, but not really Matt. It would be nice to have some of them around, but eh- it is the 2000's, and communicating via cams and like are going to become super-easy. Plus, I can really see JJ liking the challenge of setting up a life by himself in an area where he doesn't have much family, or two brothers that constantly overshadow him...

 

So where do you see Matt ending up then, Mark?

Edited March 8, 2012 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

I've sort of mentioned this before, but I have a hard tme picturing anyone that grew up in LA, in Malibu no less, loving somewhere that cold, that humid, and that you're expected to walk or take a cab everywhere. So what exactly would JJ love so much about New York? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious why you say he'd love it. Can't be the big city vibe, he can have all that he can stand just by skipping a few miles to the south.

[Daddydavek]

I can see anyone wanting to visit New York City. But I agree with B1ue that a kid who grew up on the beach, even one who ice skates would soon tire of living there. I haven't a clue as to how far his skating will actually take him. If toward the Olympics I would think he would be based in Colorado or Utah. If not that good, then he will not be pursuing it as a career.

 

Perhaps that parcel of ground that has Wade and his nemesis so concerned provides a clue as to where JJ will go?

 

As far as Wade's future in law school, I think he will stay out of Virginia. One school not mentioned is the University of Chicago. However, my choice if I got a vote would be Berkeley. A great school, on the west coast and not Stanford where he is doing his pre-law.

[centexhairysub]

I actually really thought about Chicago. The only reason I didn't try and make a case for it was none of Wade's schools were there but in early 2000's both Northwestern and University of Chicago were both top ten law schools while Northwestern and Chicago were one and two for business schools. Matt would be closer to his family, Wade would at least be in the Eastern half of the country but far enough away not to be dealing with his family on regular basis. There are some bad memories of Chicago from earlier stories but maybe Wade and Matt could erase the bad Karma and leave the area bathed in sunshine and light... LOL... Well, I can honestly say some of the best times in the early stories took place there but for me that will always be the place where we started to lose Jeff to drugs. "quitely sobs in the corner for a moment..."

 

On the New York issue, I love to visit New York but don't think I would really ever want to live there. That being said, I can see why those that love it do so. New York has a certain energy that you just really don't find anywhere else in the United States. JJ has never been much of a beach person as far as I can tell, he never really surfed, swam, boogie boarded, etc... New York is a great place to reinvent yourself and come out of the shadows. JJ has two brothers that love him very much and I believe he loves as much, but they have to some extent always over-shadowed him. Even with his being at the level of skating that he has reached so far, the family still seems to view it more as a hobby then something serious, exceptions for Claire, Will, Jeanine, and Tiffany. If something happened and he did not make the top level or something happened and he had to stop competing, like an injury, I could really see JJ moving to New York after high school and really finding himself. New York is a great place for artist and dreamers and JJ has always had a touch of both...

[George Richard]

As far as Wade's future in law school, I think he will stay out of Virginia. One school not mentioned is the University of Chicago. However, my choice if I got a vote would be Berkeley. A great school, on the west coast and not Stanford where he is doing his pre-law.

 

If Wade went to Chicago and took constitutional law before 2004 he could have Obama. But just like Matt and Wade can likely get in at any schools they want, the success of their future careers probably doesn't depend much on where they go. So why not decide by picking schools where they'd most like to live.

[methodwriter85]

On the New York issue, I love to visit New York but don't think I would really ever want to live there. That being said, I can see why those that love it do so. New York has a certain energy that you just really don't find anywhere else in the United States. JJ has never been much of a beach person as far as I can tell, he never really surfed, swam, boogie boarded, etc... New York is a great place to reinvent yourself and come out of the shadows. JJ has two brothers that love him very much and I believe he loves as much, but they have to some extent always over-shadowed him. Even with his being at the level of skating that he has reached so far, the family still seems to view it more as a hobby then something serious, exceptions for Claire, Will, Jeanine, and Tiffany. If something happened and he did not make the top level or something happened and he had to stop competing, like an injury, I could really see JJ moving to New York after high school and really finding himself. New York is a great place for artist and dreamers and JJ has always had a touch of both...

 

Thank you for pretty much explaining why I feel like NYC would be perfect for JJ. There's this indescribable energy to the place, and for some one for whom money is no object, he could get some premium digs. I could see him, if the skating doesn't pan out, attending Tisch and studying to become a Broadway actor. We know from Millennium that JJ has a decent voice, and he'd probably be a good dancer.

 

As for the big city vibe, remember what Tim said about how Los Angeles was proud to be the anti-city? From the vibe I get, it's more of a collection of suburbs with some downtown areas as opposed to a dense, walkable city. And didn't you say once that of all the kids, you didn't see JJ staying in SoCal, Blue? Of course, it wouldn't have to be NYC- London or Paris could work as well. Although Paris might be on the permanent black list for that family.

 

Edited to add: Okay, so it might not be Malibu Beach shore, but JJ wouldn't exactly be giving up the beach if he lived in NYC. There are actually beaches there- not great ones, but he wouldn't be missing the ocean. And he could summer in the Hamptons, and don't tell me you can't see JJ rubbing elbows with the Hamptons Crowd. He'd fit right in on Gossip Girl and Revenge.

 

Plus, as it's been pointed out, JJ's never really been that much of a beach guy. Hell, I think *I'm* more of a beach person than JJ is, and I only go down to Rehoboth maybe three or four times during the summer.

 

Also...from Blue on March 27th, 2011:

 

I can't see JJ staying in LA. Will and Darius, yes, provided Will can get Brad to stop trying to run their lives, but JJ has better things to do. He might stick around because our women are superfically prettier (being the plastic surgery capital of the world has it's, heh, perks), and most women wear practically nothing during most of the year, but I kind of doubt it. Paris or London sounds right for him, but Chicago is also reasonable enough. He'd be practically neighbors with Gathan there, after all. Though I'd pay money to see him deal with snow for the first time. That's always a laugh, when you see someone from LA attempt to make sense of all that white crap on the ground and I have to shovel what and oh god where is my car?

So you did agree with me on JJ not staying in L.A., but you were thinking more Paris or London. Which I can also see.

Edited March 9, 2012 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

Oh yes, I agree that he's taking a ticket out of Los Angeles. I'm not a certain of that as I was last year, but I can still see it.

 

Broadway JJ. The mind boggles. But that's certainly a great reason to go.

 

Edit: About the beach comment. While I actually cannot remember the last time I swam (four or five years ago, at least), I've lived within a mile of the beach since 2002. There's a certain culture that even in Long Beach is present (though less so here than anywhere else I've lived) when you live that close to the water, that I love even if I don't fully participate in it. So I can see a non-beach person still finding an inland environment to be a bit of a shock.

 

And that's leaving aside the weather, as the ocean acts as a great moderator for temperature that you lose rapidly even going a little further inland.

 

Further Edit: The anti-city, that's quite true, for much of Los Angeles. The joke about people from Socal is that only people that arne't really from Los Angeles would say they are. If you're born here, or have lived here any amoutn of time, you're from, say, Malibu. Or Eagle Rock. Or Long Beach. Or La Puente. Or Silver Lake. There's no real unifying culture aside from our avid attachment of our cars and our freeways. That said, some parts, such as those in and around Hollywood stretching to Venice Beach, are as cosmopolitan as you please. This is more or less where I was talking about when I said he could head south a few miles.

[methodwriter85]

Oh yes, I agree that he's taking a ticket out of Los Angeles. I'm not a certain of that as I was last year, but I can still see it.

They changed schools only for Will to again eclipse JJ. I think in his head, JJ's always going to feel overshadowed by Will- they're like Irish twins that way. Irish twins can be really close, but there's also a sense of frustration whenever one of them gets more attention and friends than the other one does, because they're either in the same grade or just a grade apart. Although really, JJ can't ever really be Mr. Popular in high school, not if he's pursuing figure skating. Teenagers expect a lot of loyalty and time spent together when it comes to their friends, and a guy who disappears for entire weeks throughout the year and can't hang out whenever is going to have a hard time holding on to a lot of friends.

 

Broadway JJ. The mind boggles. But that's certainly a great reason to go.

 

It's not that mind-boggling if you think about it. He definitely has the theatrical personality down. I wonder who Mark studied to get that right.

[B1ue]

They changed schools only for Will to again eclipse JJ. I think in his head, JJ's always going to feel overshadowed by Will- they're like Irish twins that way. Irish twins can be really close, but there's also a sense of frustration whenever one of them gets more attention and friends than the other one does, because they're either in the same grade or just a grade apart. .

Oh, I have a certain amount of experience with this. One of my cousins (actually, three, but only one I had in school with me) is almsot exactly my age. And she's a fucking knock-out, one of the best looking women I've ever met. I love her as a sister, but I admit to some teeth grinding during our teenage years, when we werre going to the same school, did many of the same clubs and classes. In fainress, she had to work a lot harder at our mutual classes for the same results, so she had just as many moments of frustration with me.

 

I'm grateful we did different sports at least. And we get along much better now that we're no longer in the same city, though unfortunately not as close.

[methodwriter85]

I actually think the JJ/Will bitchery has been one of the most realistic relationships Mark has written. I mean, when it comes down to it they'll have each other's backs, but you've got two very different guys, going to the same school and in the same grade. (If only JJ had been born December 2nd instead of December 7th...) It's not going to be easy, especially since Will kind of just shot ahead of JJ in terms of physical maturity, and is attracting all kinds of attention for being hot and such. Meanwhile, JJ looks like a short 12-year old. It wouldn't be realistic for JJ not to be frustrated by that. It's why I'm kind of surprised JJ followed Will to HW- JJ either going to another school or just going into home school seemed like it might have been good for both of them.

 

I have two sisters that are only sixteen months apart in age, and god it got pretty bad at times. It helped when they wound up going to different schools for 10th and 11th grade, respectively.

 

So I can see a non-beach person still finding an inland environment to be a bit of a shock.

That's the thing though- it's NOT an inland environment; there are harbors and bays and beaches and the like. NYC still has to worry about hurricanes, although not as badly as NJ and Delaware.

 

I did experience the inland shock though, when I moved to Western Pennsylvania, because I have pretty much never lived more than 90 minutes away from a beach for the majority of my life. It is kind of weird not to see seagulls and the like.

Edited March 9, 2012 by methodwriter85