Pro-Football/Gay Rights

[Krista]

Recently there has been a heated discussion between two players on the same team. The straight punter Chris Kluwe for the Vikings has came out publicly and politically in favor of Gay Marriage. He's also pictured in Out.com with a colorful and politically charged piece about a letter he recently sent to a Maryland politician about his views on Gay Marriage.

 

Not going to post the link, you can find it easily enough with the information I gave you, but the pictures of him are delicious...

Edited October 19, 2012 by Krista

[MikeL]

Thanks for the post, Krista. Kluwe's letter is an excellent retort to the pompous politician.

 

Who knew a pro football player could use such language? Did Kluwe major in etymology in college?

[Krista]

Well.. he's a punter.. and they only get paid the big bucks if they are the best in the league.. so he has to have a fall back plan... lol.. A good education..

[TetRefine]

Maybe a few are accepting, but the majority of football players (and athletes in general) remain overwhelmingly homophobic or at least not accepting. The locker room for most teams is the last place you want to be openly gay in.

[Krista]

Well no.. and I'm thinking Chris Kluwe is the minority. He's not openly gay, he's a straight man arguing for gay rights issues. He's taking chances that a lot of people in his position wouldn't take. It's a start, maybe more will voice it.

 

Also, I read there is a young wrestler that came out of the closet and is trying to cause awareness about locker room homophobia, they say it is a really bad issue... which I can imagine... the word 'gay' and 'fag' gets thrown around way too easily.

[Y_B]

You'll get some clout if you're actually good.

Benchwarmers pls stay in the closet kidding of course (maybe)

 

But yeah, I agree with MikeL, he's got a surprisingly good way with words. You don't find that often even in the more educated bracket. He prolly reads a lot. You don't write like that just cuz you were taught some general ed courses and majored in whatever.

 

anyways, CHRIS KLUWE 2016!!

 

p.s. that jesus christ haircut needs to be re-thought.

[Y_B]

the word 'gay' and 'fag' gets thrown around way too easily.

 

Well, yeah...but that's everywhere, not just locker rooms.

 

 

imho gay rights is pushing itself a little too fast. we're trying to wipe out discrimination and prejudice at the same time, and keep in mind those are very different things, and that's kinda difficult. I mean, I know we live this sort of "now, now, now" society, but some things are just not gonna happen at the ideal rate and pushing it too fast isn't going to get the results any faster. You can create policy and mandate certain actions but you can't ever force someone to like you. Homophobia will unfortunately be around way after the last state legalizes gay marriage.

[Conner]

Well, yeah...but that's everywhere, not just locker rooms.

 

 

imho gay rights is pushing itself a little too fast. we're trying to wipe out discrimination and prejudice at the same time, and keep in mind those are very different things, and that's kinda difficult. I mean, I know we live this sort of "now, now, now" society, but some things are just not gonna happen at the ideal rate and pushing it too fast isn't going to get the results any faster. You can create policy and mandate certain actions but you can't ever force someone to like you. Homophobia will unfortunately be around way after the last state legalizes gay marriage.

 

I fail to see the point you are making in pointing out that prejudice and discrimination are very different things. Where you find one, chances are you'll find the other.

How did you come to the conclusion that gay rights is pushing itself too fast? What's your yardstick here? What consequence do you see in moving too fast?

[Y_B]

The consequence I see is that because those two won't progress in the same stride and we're expecting them to, we'll always be disappointed when the reality of everything fails to match our expectations. The point I make is that discrimination is a state of action while prejudice is a state of mind. They come hand in hand when they're dished out, but they're not mutually dependent on the other for existence. You're not likely to be discriminated if you're not prejudiced against, but you can wel be prejudiced against without being discriminated. We've come a long way since the early days of gay rights, but we're still fighting for them and it's still a ways to go. I don't find it necessary to be so concerned with being called a faggot as long as I'm not denied the opportunity to live my life the way that I want. Yet. Ideally and eventually I'd like the world to view homosexuality in a more positive, or at least neutral, perspective, but in the mean time I don't expect that part of this societal gay revolution to march in step with anti-discriminatory policies. But these days, it seems like when someone even hints at the possibility of being unsure about "gay", gay advocated jump to brand them as bigots and backward thinkers, even if they pose absolutely no threat to the progression of gay rights, as if their lack of understanding or whatever is so blasphemous they must be of a lower species. We're trying so hard to twist society's arm to get people to "admit" they like gays, it sort of throws egg shells everywhere and pressures public figures to show support to the gay cause even when they don't want to, just for the sake of appearing progressive, and that sort of creates an illusion that things are better than they really are...not to mention it makes us seem like the ones who don't respect differences in beliefs. I'm not saying every gay advocate out there is false representing themselves but "gay" is almost becoming a bandwagon social cause. What happens when people just off that bandwagon? So maybe if we can say "I can respect that you don't like me, but for the time being, give me my opportunity to live well, and I can show you I'm not an unrespectable person" instead of this whole "how dare you dislike me" thing, we can have a more accurate gage on how far things have really come and how fast progress is really being made. Cuz honestly, I don't like surrounding myself with false pretenses.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Y_B

[JamesSavik]

I'm not thrilled with the way Chris Kluwe is going about his advocacy. Truthfully, he is coming off as a foul-mouthed punk.

[Krista]

I'm not thrilled with the way Chris Kluwe is going about his advocacy. Truthfully, he is coming off as a foul-mouthed punk.

 

The method is a bit abrasive yes, but at least he is on our side of the fence.. and not the other... He's still a minority within the sport industry... most of them either advocate for gay rights or come out of the closet when they are old and have been out of the public eye for a really long time. He is doing this while he is at the top of his game, still young enough to be in the public eye out on the field still participating... it's a difference that I like.

[Hayden L]

I'm openly gay (I was outed so no need to go hind it) and an athlete. I play football for a small college and being gay definitely hindered my chances of playing for a larger school. But, interestingly I'm being re-recruited but some major schools.

 

It's not easy for me in the locker room (no, Im not drooling over my team mates) but because of the tension of everyone trying their best not to say something offensive. I had to sit down with them one day this summer and explain that it's okay to make jokes and call something gay and all that crap...even I call some things gay - it's just an expression.

 

On the field, I play as hard and as good as I can and I think that has earned their respect.

[TetRefine]

I'm openly gay (I was outed so no need to go hind it) and an athlete. I play football for a small college and being gay definitely hindered my chances of playing for a larger school. But, interestingly I'm being re-recruited but some major schools.

 

It's not easy for me in the locker room (no, Im not drooling over my team mates) but because of the tension of everyone trying their best not to say something offensive. I had to sit down with them one day this summer and explain that it's okay to make jokes and call something gay and all that crap...even I call some things gay - it's just an expression.

 

On the field, I play as hard and as good as I can and I think that has earned their respect.

 

I think an important question to ask is: If you weren't outed would you be out to your teammates? And would you feel comfortable being so?

 

I remember my four years of playing high school football (I'm a junior in college now and no longer play competitively), and my overriding fear was being outed. The type of guys I had as teammates would have run me out of the locker room in a second if they found out, despite the fact that I was a three year varsity player and started for the last two. The amount of homophobic vitriol spewed by everyone in the locker room was just nauseating. I can honestly say that my football career would have gone out the window if they had known. But I recognize that each situation is different and every team dynamic is unique. I'm just always interested to hear the experiences of other gay athletes whether they were/are out or not.

[Y_B]

I remember my four years of playing high school football (I'm a junior in college now and no longer play competitively), and my overriding fear was being outed. The type of guys I had as teammates would have run me out of the locker room in a second if they found out, despite the fact that I was a three year varsity player and started for the last two. The amount of homophobic vitriol spewed by everyone in the locker room was just nauseating. I can honestly say that my football career would have gone out the window if they had known. But I recognize that each situation is different and every team dynamic is unique. I'm just always interested to hear the experiences of other gay athletes whether they were/are out or not.

 

Nobody noticed you lace up your cleats with pinkies out?

 

I come from an aquatics background, which arguably involves some of the gayest sports known to man. But its not an issue because swimming and diving don't contort themselves to be some kinda display of ultra-machohood. But that isn't to say people felt free to out themselves left and right even if it was fairly obvious at times who is what but again, it's a non-issue for the most part. The only time I've encountered real passive aggressive homophobia is in college when I played intramural and club sports. People somehow love dishing to me what they really think of others sometimes. If I popped a boner everytime I heard someone go "don't get me wrong, I have nothing against gay guys...but..." I'd never be able to wear shorts.

[Krista]

Some of it is likely true homophobia, but there is still a good possibility that the locker room banter could just be for shits and giggles. Still it likely doesn't make gay people feel comfortable in the locker room hearing all of the negativity. Some of them probably would be blatantly against a gay teammate and would still say those things, but there has to be a flip-side to that as well. Some of them would likely stop saying it.. or at least make it known that it is for laughs and the like.

[Hayden L]

I think an important question to ask is: If you weren't outed would you be out to your teammates? And would you feel comfortable being so?

 

 

 

No, definitely not. I was not prepared for it. When it happened most of my so-called friends turned their backs to me. If it wasn't for my best friend sticking by me and then rallying the majority of the team to support me, I would have quit and prolly dropped out of school all together.

 

There were still some who deliberately tried to hurt me - physically hurt me. I got jumped one night after getting off the bus and changing in the locker room. When I walked outside I got hit over the head then got beaten. It was really ugly, the police were called, I ended up in the hospital and the school "investigated" but never found out who did it. I think I know who they were but it's all in the past now. I can't change it.

 

Now, playing college ball, the locker room is a challenge but, mostly it's just mocho talk. Most of the guys apologize if they see me.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Hayden93

[Andrew Todd]

We're very much in a one step forward, two steps back state these days, but at least some progress is being made. One positve voice on an NFL team is one more than we had several years ago. Acceptance is not a fight that will be won overnight. Everytime I get down about the prejudices and hatred out there I think back to being in High School in the early-80s...happy that we've made so much progress and pissed that we have so much farther to go...