9.11

[Sammy Blue]

When I heard the terms of Robbie's will and the terms of the trusts I thought it was odd that one could get only $20,000 a year.

(...)

Gathan went through a lot of money on the way too school. Buying a car for Zach seems nothing compared to that. A while back Gathan was the golden boy, he seems to have lost that position. With Darius, JJ and Will against him and Robbie gone.

 

Oh yea, I don't remember the number, but the amount of money that he spend in Vegas alone makes any car you could buy seem small, I think.

 

I just checked, he bought a diamond ring for 20,000$, and a bottle of wine for 500$, just for shit and giggles.

  “I spent a lot of money,” I said. 

  “How much?”

  “Exactly $247,685.”  I grimaced at the number.

 

---

Excuse me? We're discussing whether Zach should be able to buy a car, and Gathan does stuff like this?

 

    “How did you gamble when you’re all under 21?” JP asked.

    “We bought fake IDs,” I said.  “The cheapest purchase of all.”

---

 

     “It’s a trust,” Brad said.  “For you.”

            “For me?” I asked curiously.  I didn’t know much about trusts.  Trusts were for rich people.  Kristin probably had one.

            “It will pay you $250,000 per year while you’re in school, and then when you turn 25, the balance is yours,” he said factually.

 

---

 

I mean, okay, Gathan did some stuff back them that definitely got him in the good books of the CAP family, while Zach gave enough reasons not to be trusted, but now that I check the actual numbers, it's almost shocking. Also, Gathan can pretty much fuck up and and doesn't have to worry about it, while Zach has almost no chance to prove that he has changed. He doesn't even really see his family members, besides on occasions like this, and none of them really gives him a chance. I guess if he gets closer to Will then there is a chance that he can show that he has changed, but without Will I don't think he would even see Gathan and the others enough to make a difference.

 

Gathan is richer than God, for a Hayes, while Zach is pretty much at his mercy until he is 30, and the amount of money Zach gets is ridiculously low.

 

Edit: Yea, if he proves himself, then he will not have to worry about money, but he doesn't have a lot of chances to do that...

Edited November 21, 2013 by Sammy Blue

[PrivateTim]

I'm not certain about your interpretation of Zach. We've been inside the dark place that is Gathan's mind, and he genuinely believes the lines he was spouting. Also, I have to say, I disliked Zach's evaluation of his cousins and siblings. I'm sure it was honest, but it's not exactly the way a generous or kind person would think.

 

I am not saying Zach is kind or generous, I am saying Zach is like most people, much more complex than the one dimensional character we've seen up to now. We've seen that he has genuine feelings and that maybe part of the persona we've seen so far are his defense and coping mechanisms.

 

His evaluations of his cousins and siblings seemed honest, which I'd rather hear than flowery BS, even if they are catty. His perceptions form how he acts and reacts.

 

I forget how old Zach is now, say 16, by the time he is 25 and then 30, his $1,000,000 trust will be considerably more by the time he reaches 25 and then 30. With the time value of money, by the time he hits 30, even in a conservative portfolio his trust could be spitting out over $200,000 in income.

[Mark Arbour]

When I heard the terms of Robbie's will and the terms of the trusts I thought it was odd that one could get only $20,000 a year. That seems so little. I understand that each trust is only a million but still it seemed odd.

 

It's being truncated so they don't get much money, to keep them from doing what Gathan did in Vegas.  In 2001, with T-Bill rates right around 5%, even a conservative portfolio should have generated $60,000/year in income.

[Mark Arbour]

Oh yea, I don't remember the number, but the amount of money that he spend in Vegas alone makes any car you could buy seem small, I think.

 

I just checked, he bought a diamond ring for 20,000$, and a bottle of wine for 500$, just for shit and giggles.

  “I spent a lot of money,” I said. 

  “How much?”

  “Exactly $247,685.”  I grimaced at the number.

 

---

Excuse me? We're discussing whether Zach should be able to buy a car, and Gathan does stuff like this?

 

    “How did you gamble when you’re all under 21?” JP asked.

    “We bought fake IDs,” I said.  “The cheapest purchase of all.”

---

 

     “It’s a trust,” Brad said.  “For you.”

            “For me?” I asked curiously.  I didn’t know much about trusts.  Trusts were for rich people.  Kristin probably had one.

            “It will pay you $250,000 per year while you’re in school, and then when you turn 25, the balance is yours,” he said factually.

 

---

 

I mean, okay, Gathan did some stuff back them that definitely got him in the good books of the CAP family, while Zach gave enough reasons not to be trusted, but now that I check the actual numbers, it's almost shocking. Also, Gathan can pretty much fuck up and and doesn't have to worry about it, while Zach has almost no chance to prove that he has changed. He doesn't even really see his family members, besides on occasions like this, and none of them really gives him a chance. I guess if he gets closer to Will then there is a chance that he can show that he has changed, but without Will I don't think he would even see Gathan and the others enough to make a difference.

 

Gathan is richer than God, for a Hayes, while Zach is pretty much at his mercy until he is 30, and the amount of money Zach gets is ridiculously low.

 

Edit: Yea, if he proves himself, then he will not have to worry about money, but he doesn't have a lot of chances to do that...

 

Well, the Hayes family consensus is that Gathan is the golden boy, so he's dubbed as being responsible and left alone.  I think there's some justification for that, since he is over 18 and he did make it into Stanford (and is presumably surviving there). 

 

The other trust that he has, the one Brad gave him for being the $6 million man, I'll bet that Wally and Clara had their misgivings about that as well, but they probably kept their thoughts to themselves, based on the situation and the circumstances surrounding it.

 

And there's one more point to consider.  Wally and Clara raised all those kids as if they were their own, but as we saw in PMS, at least Clara separates her two kids out and annoints them as being more special.  And Zach is her son.   I think that would make them much more protective, and much more controlling, at least to the degree that they can be.

[Daddydavek]

Zach's concerns about Gathan being the successor trustee seem quite reasonable.   

 

What I'm interested in is what Brad paints.  He has one he did in memory of his brother and I think we can expect one for his lover....

[rjo]

Leave it to our beloved author to weave a story with so many ins and outs. Zach's trust, Will and Zach, and Brad and Will all are situations in flux. Brad has always used painting to heal himself, as with the lose of his brother Billy all those years ago. It is so interesting to see how Will and Brad's relationship has changed. Before they would have been at each others throuts, now they take that extra moment and hold back. They still understand each other, but now they support each other a lot more. Brad has grown to see Will as not that little kid he must protect, but a young man who can most of the time handle his own relationships by himself.

 

 

I have to say this again, I like the person Will is becoming. Many of his tiraids now are a reaction from losing his mother, Robbie and Hank. He still has that need to right the wrongs he sees Some thing he got from his great grandmother, Tonto. I called Gathan a golden boy, Will is the golden boy of golden boys. There is a kindness which comes out more and more whether it is to repair Kai's house and buying rooms for those who needed them. He promised Jeanine and Robbie. Those are oaths which he will keep. A man of his word. Just look at all the little things he has done for Brad since 9 11. Some as simple as a word or pat on the back. None of this has changed him. I always thought my favorate character was JP, as much as I love him, Will has became the promise of the future.

Edited November 21, 2013 by rjo

[methodwriter85]

 

I forget how old Zach is now, say 16, by the time he is 25 and then 30, his $1,000,000 trust will be considerably more by the time he reaches 25 and then 30.

 

    Zach's 16. We set his birthdate as May 30, 1985. He's in his junior year of high school. In real-time, Zach doesn't have the rest of his trust yet- he received the first half in 2010, and will receive the rest in May 2015. Brent and Trent are probably 17 or 18...one of them got Gathan's car for working on it, and when Zach bitched about it, Gathan reminded Zach that he wasn't even 16 yet. Zeke is 18 and should've started college already.

 

     I don't think Zach is being unreasonable in not wanting Gathan in charge of his trust- Gathan clearly isn't objective towards him, plus they know too much about each other's skeletons in the closet for things not to get ugly.

 

 

If you were to pin Gathan down about his sexuality, he'd tell you what he's always said: that body parts don't matter to him, it's about the person. So in his mind, he's being honest by saying he's flexible on gender, while Zach is trying to live a lie.

 

     You do have to feel bad for Zach. He looks up to NFL players as his Gods, and even in 2013 there still isn't a single active openly gay football player. If Zach does get far, and does well enough in college that he's considered an NFL prospect, he really doesn't have a choice- he has to continue living a lie. With Brian Bloom, he was good college-wise but not considered NFL-material, so it wasn't as much of a problem with him. Zach will probably wind up getting married to a woman for his beard, and having sex with men on the side without ever getting into real relationships.

 

     Although there is a good chance that Zach is a non-violent socipath, so that might be for the best.

Edited November 21, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Sammy Blue]

 

If you were to pin Gathan down about his sexuality, he'd tell you what he's always said: that body parts don't matter to him, it's about the person. So in his mind, he's being honest by saying he's flexible on gender, while Zach is trying to live a lie.

 

    You do have to feel bad for Zach. He looks up to NFL players as his Gods, and even in 2013 there still isn't a single active openly gay football player. If Zach does get far, and does well enough in college that he's considered an NFL prospect, he really doesn't have a choice- he has to continue living a lie. With Brian Bloom, he was good college-wise but not considered NFL-material, so it wasn't as much of a problem with him. Zach will probably wind up getting married to a woman for his beard, and having sex with men on the side without ever getting into real relationships.

 

Hey, give the boy a break, alright?

He is, as mentioned before, only 16. I don't know if it would even be appropriate to use the term 'living a lie' for a 16 y/o boy. He might be in denial yes, although with Will I didn't see much denial there, or did I miss something?

 

The major denial, if I remember correctly, was in PMS, he was 14 back then, wasn't he? I think it is reasonable to be confused or in denial at that age, and even at age 16, it is understandable. Maybe you are right and he will be living a lie, but at his age, I don't think you can say that so definitely.

 

The reasoning makes sense, though, method, good explanation (with the NFL)

Edited November 21, 2013 by Sammy Blue

[methodwriter85]

    Zach insisted to Will that he's not gay when they first started having sex. The only reason he's even willing to kiss Will is because Will was able to get him to do it.

 

    That's the funny thing about closetcases- sucking a dick or fucking another guy doesn't make you gay, but kissing another guy would. *rolls eyes*

[Sammy Blue]

Well I do know quite a few people who insisted they weren't gay at that age (while having sex with e.g. me), but now they are out and all.

 

It is weird, but it makes sense, in a twisted way. Fucking, sucking and giving hand can be explained by either 'just doing it to get off' or necessary 'reciprocation'. Being fucked is where many people draw the line. In a way, it would give you the 'role of girl' (in a heteronormative/stupid way of thinking), and kissing (as well as other additional show of affection) would disturb the excuse that it is just about getting off. Basically you try to keep the emotional connection as low as possible and just work on physical satisfaction, which makes it easier to justify what you're doing (for your own conscience).

 

Kissing is considered 'romantic' and that is a level that many don't want to enter. I know that for some people kissing is more intense than most other stuff. To me a kiss is pretty meaningful. I might make out some, if it is necessary, so it doesn't get awkward (when hooking up), but a genuine kiss that comes from heart does mean a lot and is rare.

 

If I had a problem with being gay, I would definitely have a bigger problem with kissing people than with having sex.... because, at least to me, a (genuine) kiss means more than just 'sex'. I know that some people think differently, but that doesn't help how I feel about that.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Sammy Blue

[B1ue]

Which he?

Well, I had meant Zach, as JJ would not be as entertaining. He'd make an ass out of himself within thirty seconds of meeting Kai.

[methodwriter85]

Well, I had meant Zach, as JJ would not be as entertaining. He'd make an ass out of himself within thirty seconds of meeting Kai.

 

    Could you imagine what JJ would have reacted if he had met Kai's father? People can be so rude at times when it comes to the disabled. I remember I had dinner with my friend's boyfriend's family, and they told me beforehand that the grandfather had his voicebox removed and spoke through a tube to make sure I'd be respectful.

 

    In any event, JJ's not going to Hawaii. It's October, which means it's crunchtime for him- the Central Pacific Regionals and Skate America in Colorado are up for him this month.

[PrivateTim]

    Could you imagine what JJ would have reacted if he had met Kai's father? People can be so rude at times when it comes to the disabled.

 

It sounds like you are implying that JJ would react rudely or badly and I don't get where that notion comes from. JJ may have been a bit self involved or self important the last couple of years, but nothing suggests he would be mean or rude to people or that he doesn't know how to behave towards strangers no matter the circumstances.

[methodwriter85]

 

It sounds like you are implying that JJ would react rudely or badly and I don't get where that notion comes from. JJ may have been a bit self involved or self important the last couple of years, but nothing suggests he would be mean or rude to people or that he doesn't know how to behave towards strangers no matter the circumstances.

 

    I thought it was strongly indicated that JJ can be quite rude to people and that's why Darius and Will hoover over him in public places to make sure he doesn't make an ass out of himself:

 

“You did great, JJ,” Will said.  If Darius was annoying because he tried to act like one of my parents, Will was almost as annoying, acting like he had to always keep me propped up.  They treated me like some robot they had to program before they launched me into a public setting.  Like I wasn’t in the public eye more than them.  Like I embarrassed myself in front of other people.

 

 

       Of course, JJ doesn't view himself as having that problem, but he was also being defensive. I think the only time he sucks up to people and acts like a sweetheart to total strangers are probably when he's at a competition and around judges, media, and well-respected senior skaters ahead of him.

 

      I do think odds are JJ would have made a total ass of himself, somehow, while meeting Kai and his family, like Blue said. He would NOT be comfortable around a disabled dad and Kai's blue-collar family.

Edited November 22, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Sammy Blue]

    Could you imagine what JJ would have reacted if he had met Kai's father? People can be so rude at times when it comes to the disabled.

 

Actually, I can imagine two things happening. It is probably that JJ is in fact rude, not intentionally but simply by being self-absorbed, but it would also give an opportunity to show that JJ is not necessarily always like that, that he is growing up and seeing someone like Kai's father might just evoke a reaction that we didn't expect.

 

JJ might be bitchy, but he isn't really malicious, I think.

 

Edit: If he fucks up, there is a chance that he realizes what he did wrong, but we do not know that. It would actually be cool if JJ came to Hawai with them, I hope it will happen at one time or another...

Edited November 22, 2013 by Sammy Blue

[PrivateTim]

    I thought it was strongly indicated that JJ can be quite rude to people and that's why Darius and Will hoover over him in public places to make sure he doesn't make an ass out of himself:

 

To me there has never been an indication that JJ would be rude to someone who was disabled.

 

Rude to fellow skaters, sure, rude to family members, okay, rude to other people in the inner, maybe; but not to strangers, not to fans and not to someone who was less advantaged.

[B1ue]

Except that when I questioned Mark on why JJ was so rude to Zach, Zach being less advantaged than the rest of the group was one of the reasons given. He flat out stated JJ is a snob when it comes to income. That's actually what prompted my original comment that he'd be a jerk; I meant he'd be a jerk to Kai, who is not very well off due to the amount of care his father requires.

 

But, since it's been brought up, I think it's reasonable to assume his distaste for the less advantaged in one aspect of life would continue to others, until the story proves otherwise of course. He might not be a jerk to anyone who can't perform a triple lutz, but I do think he needs some kind of achievement before he'll start respecting that person, like how he likes Alastair for his confidence. Unlike Will, who does regularly challenge himself by interacting with people of all ability levels (as long as they are also hot guys), JJ seems to mostly keep to himself and those, like his brothers, who are all over extremely capable people.

 

Plus, for JJ, there's possibly an element of fear involved in seeing someone that is restricted to a wheel-chair. Perhaps you don't react that way, but *I* get edgy when I see someone that cannot run or see. Not, mind, someone that is simply not good at it, or even requires hefty aids, but is functionally unable. I've learned to squelch that reaction, but as a teenager I hadn't yet figured that out, and I never had so much of my self-image wrapped up into my body that JJ does. It is possible he's worse, as well as possible it doesn't bother him at all.

[PrivateTim]

Except that when I questioned Mark on why JJ was so rude to Zach, Zach being less advantaged than the rest of the group was one of the reasons given. He flat out stated JJ is a snob when it comes to income. That's actually what prompted my original comment that he'd be a jerk; I meant he'd be a jerk to Kai, who is not very well off due to the amount of care his father requires.

 

I get what you are saying, but that is not where this conversation started. It was specifically about Jeremy's comment about JJ being rude to Kai's dad and specifically because the father was disabled and I will repeat that I don't see anything about JJ to indicate he would be rude to an adult and especially not one in a wheel chair.

 

I can see JJ being rude to Zach because he is family of a sort and a peer. I can maybe see him being unthinking towards Kai, but not necessarily rude.

 

I don't think we've seen enough of JJ and his interactions with people outside the family and skating world to make the kind of comment Jeremy did. Maybe it was just a throwaway comment, not meant to mean a lot, but I thought it an unnecessarily harsh judgment towards JJ based on nothing.

[Mark Arbour]

I get what you are saying, but that is not where this conversation started. It was specifically about Jeremy's comment about JJ being rude to Kai's dad and specifically because the father was disabled and I will repeat that I don't see anything about JJ to indicate he would be rude to an adult and especially not one in a wheel chair.

 

I can see JJ being rude to Zach because he is family of a sort and a peer. I can maybe see him being unthinking towards Kai, but not necessarily rude.

 

I don't think we've seen enough of JJ and his interactions with people outside the family and skating world to make the kind of comment Jeremy did. Maybe it was just a throwaway comment, not meant to mean a lot, but I thought it an unnecessarily harsh judgment towards JJ based on nothing.

 

JJ being catty and rude to family and friends, or even to people his own age, would be expected.  JJ being a snob and slamming people behind their backs to friends/family is equally likely.  But JJ being rude to a stranger, or to a family friend, is pretty much unthinkable.  If JJ was rude to Kai's dad, or made fun of him, Isidore would flay him alive. 

[methodwriter85]

    I kind of based it off of the same thing that Blue's talked about- that when he was a teenager, he had a reaction to disabled people that bordered on rude, even if he didn't act malicious. I think I was probably similar. I'm not saying JJ would have SAID something awful- I think he might have had a facial reaction that would have made him look like an ass.

[Mark Arbour]

    I kind of based it off of the same thing that Blue's talked about- that when he was a teenager, he had a reaction to disabled people that bordered on rude, even if he didn't act malicious. I think I was probably similar. I'm not saying JJ would have SAID something awful- I think he might have had a facial reaction that would have made him look like an ass.

 

I think JJ would have been completely stone-faced and been fine.  He's used to managing his facial expressions, and pasting on a smile when he skates.  I can't see how an older Hawaiian man with MS is going to shock him out of his complacency.

[methodwriter85]

   Good point. I've been told by people that I have really horrible poker face, so they can tell what my emotions are just by looking at me. It makes sense that JJ's good at managing his facial reactions to people.

[sat8997]

  If JJ was rude to Kai's dad, or made fun of him, Isidore would flay him alive. 

 

[Daddydavek]

Now that we have JJ all figured out I'm looking forward to the next installment as I'm curious what is coming next and I'm hoping for an early Thanksgiving present!  

[Mark Arbour]

I'm trying to get back onto a weekly posting schedule, and I think I'll make it this week, so expect the next chapter to post on Wednesday.