Timothy M. Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 By Zach's own admission, he has been an asshole... Oh, there is no doubt that Zach is a self-centered, manipulative, bad-tempered, lying bastard. So what?! I like him for being clever and honest with himself about what he's like. He's not pretending to be a good guy in his own thoughts, so that's why we can trust him when he occasionally admits to emotions - such as loving Will or admiring JP or being grateful about what Frank does for him. And at least he's not excusing his behavior by blaming it on his parents (like the counselor tried to say Wally may act like that because his dad did the same). That would be almost as pathetic as saying Zach deserves being treated like shit because he's a shithead... 3
Bucket1 Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Oh, there is no doubt that Zach is a self-centered, manipulative, bad-tempered, lying bastard. So what?! I like him for being clever and honest with himself about what he's like. He's not pretending to be a good guy in his own thoughts, so that's why we can trust him when he occasionally admits to emotions - such as loving Will or admiring JP or being grateful about what Frank does for him. It's those moments that turn him from "just a shithead" to an interesting character... 3
Bucket1 Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 If Will had written off Zach and kicked him out of his room after Robbie's memorial instead of having sex with him Streak would have been a paragraph, not a story. A whole CAP story reduced to a mere chapter - Thank goodness for Will's taste in men 5
Mark Arbour Posted January 4, 2015 Author Posted January 4, 2015 I have been so enjoying the discussion here! 3
Timothy M. Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I have been so enjoying the discussion here! glad to oblige and now we can start to bitch all over again after the most recent chapter. At least Zach made the effort to be honest with his parents, but I'm not sure Wally got the message. Hopefully the counselor did and he can work on the stupid man... And I agree with ColumbusGuy (and his review) in pointing out that Will was there for Zach, but otherwise I'm still not sure it was a good idea to bring him to the meeting. However, I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong. 2
Kitt Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Will being at the meeting was a good idea of for no other reason than Zach had a safe ride home after, rather than trying to drive a hot little car while thoroughly upset. Seriously, just his being there and dealing with Wally's animosity head on shows that he does really care for Zach. There are not a lot of 16/17 year old guys who would put up with that sort of nonsense and not walk away. It's important for Zach to see that caring other places than the bedroom at this point. I can also see that the fact Zach lives with Frank and Isadore may be another point of contention with Wally. I can see the councilor wanting to at least talk to them on the phone, if not have them come out for a sit down with Wally and Clara. I can easily see Wally blaming Frank for "replacing" him in Zach's life. And then there is the whole power play thing about how Zach will support himself should Wally and Clara disown him. Do they really think Brad would leave them in charge of the trust money should they do that, rather than set Zach up with an allowance and replacing them as trustees? He has done it once already with Gathan, when it became obvious he would not be fair. 3
Timothy M. Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 And then there is the whole power play thing about how Zach will support himself should Wally and Clara disown him. Do they really think Brad would leave them in charge of the trust money should they do that, rather than set Zach up with an allowance and replacing them as trustees? He has done it once already with Gathan, when it became obvious he would not be fair. Brilliant point Kitt, I'd forgotten about that. Oh and your other points were good too. 1
Bucket1 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Brilliant point Kitt, I'd forgotten about that. Oh and your other points were good too. Kitt always has good posts 1
methodwriter85 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 In response to mmike1969: I can't imagine any of those men being willing to admit publicly to having paid a 14-year old boy for sex. I'd think they'd have just as much to lose as Zach, once you factor in the prospect of jail time. If I'm reading this right, the guys who paid Zach to have sex with them are guilty of unlawful sexual contact with a minor, and statutory rape in Ohio has a statue of limitations period of 20-years. That means that if this happened in 1999/2000 when Zach was 14, the guys who did it could be prosecuted all the way up to 2019/2020. By that time, Zach would be 34 and towards the end of his football career anyway. I can't see that working as blackmail, because no one's going to admit they committed offenses that would get them on the Meghan's Law list, and Zach can always play "I was an innocent 14-year old who got molested by evil bad men who paid me" defense. You gotta remember most 14-year olds are still treated like children...we don't usually start seeing/treating teenagers like young adults until they're about 16/17. 2
mmike1969 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Unless some of those guys were the same age bracket as Zach...
methodwriter85 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Right, but what 14-year old kid in 1999 is going to take pictures of themselves having sex? This is before camera phones, sexting and the like, and we're talking about backwards rednecks. If Zach had been 14 in 2009, we'd have a completely different story, but he really is part of that last generation of teenagers who were able to fly under the radar before the internet became this thing where people could get busted for anything. Edited January 5, 2015 by methodwriter85 1
PrivateTim Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 A whole CAP story reduced to a mere chapter - Thank goodness for Will's taste in men I was actually very disappointed in Will after Robbie's memorial since it wasn't really about taste in men, he still didn't like Zach at that point, it was more about being horny. For someone that family is supposed to mean so much to, I thought he overlooked the damage that Zach did to John and to John and Will's relationship rather too easily.
PrivateTim Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Right, but what 14-year old kid in 1999 is going to take pictures of themselves having sex? This is before camera phones, sexting and the like, and we're talking about backwards rednecks. Uh not sure what you were doing in 1999, but CU See Me and Logitech cams were all the rage. I think I know people who still have vids from then. 1
mmike1969 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Uh not sure what you were doing in 1999, but CU See Me and Logitech cams were all the rage. I think I know people who still have vids from then. I am sure Method was a total angel and this kind of conduct would of shocked him to the nearest confession booth Tim.
methodwriter85 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) The tech was around, but do you really think 14-year old kids from a backwards Ohio town were actually using it? They were probably still figuring out how to use message boards in 1999, and that's if they had an internet connection. Zach also doesn't strike me as someone who would have gone near a cam. Edited January 5, 2015 by methodwriter85
mmike1969 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 The tech was around, but do you really think 14-year old kids from a backwards Ohio town were actually using it? They were probably still figuring out how to use message boards in 1999, and that's if they had an internet connection. Zach also doesn't strike me as someone who would have gone near a cam. Considering what I was doing in backwater SF Bay Area in 1986, yes I DO see some using advanced tech. And no, I don't see Zach using a cam. Some of His 24 "sponsors" on the other hand, yes I do.
PrivateTim Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 The tech was around, but do you really think 14-year old kids from a backwards Ohio town were actually using it? They were probably still figuring out how to use message boards in 1999, and that's if they had an internet connection. Zach also doesn't strike me as someone who would have gone near a cam. I know for a fact that 14 year old kids, especially gay ones, in backwards towns in Ohio, Iowa, Nebraska, Delaware, et al were not only using CU See me, but ICQ, AIM, AOL Chat Rooms, Gay.com, PlanetOut, Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger and many more programs to chat and exchange pictures and even video with each other and do live chats. Zach may not have gone on a cam knowingly, but many gay kids were unwittingly broadcast. There was a famous case around this time of a 15 year old that was doing cams shows and he made so much money that it attracted the attention of the police who raided his house and confiscated his computer. The teen fled to his father, who was living in Mexico, and when the father found out how much money the kid was making, he started to facilitate the shows. It all came crashing down eventually. I don't recall the name and I can't come up with a good enough search string to find the story, but I'll keep trying. Point being, there was a hella lot going on back then. 1
methodwriter85 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Right, but again, we gotta factor in that Zach is a pretty ambitious guy who was zealous about keeping his secret up until he fell in love with Will, and I can't see Zach getting himself unwittingly broadcast. He wasn't a naive kid even at 14. In any event, it's pretty unlikely that any of Zach's "sponsors" were kids his own age. Although...maybe nerdy kids who couldn't get sex on their own who came from rich families? Like say Richard Crampton's nerdy gay teenaged son? I can't even remember his name. LOL. I will admit I did have a friend who would send naked pictures of himself around, but that was in 2002, not 1999. All I can say is thank god he didn't do it on a phone in a mass text message. Being a teenager these days has to be scary. Social media was around back in my day, but it wasn't like it is now.
Bucket1 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Considering what I was doing in backwater SF Bay Area in 1986, yes I DO see some using advanced tech. And no, I don't see Zach using a cam. Some of His 24 "sponsors" on the other hand, yes I do. Only 10 sponsors, 14 were ummm... recreational 2
mmike1969 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Sorry but you are not going to keep a secret by sleeping with 24 people. Lets ignore the "rumors" from De La Sal. What about the rumors re: Zach and Will at Don Bosco? And that was from Advisor Barry. Let's play the numbers game: My high school has ~2000 students. Roughly about 500 per grade. I graduated in 1987. I got publicly arrested at my high school in 1986. Very few people saw me doing the Perp Walk from the Office to the waiting squad car. So the only grades that could have seen me walk the halls at the high school after my arrest were grades 1986-1990. At the most 2500 students. Jump to 1989 I was recognized as That Guy at Ft Gordon. Jump to 1990 I was recognized twice in Germany. Jump to 1992 I was recognized at Ft Bliss. How is it I can be recognized in an Organization numbering 1.4 million active/reserve/national guard spanning the globe based on a one time incident? This is all before camera phones, Assbook, Twitter and quite frankly, before high adaption of computers in the home. (To be fair, it was reported on the local and national news for about a week and my last name is not Smith/Jones) Because Rumors in High School spread faster then Assbook ever could and takes longer to squash. TL;DR 1) People out there outside of the Family already know about Zach/Will. 2) If Private Tim's BFF Tony was able to figure it out, you can be sure others have already figured it out too. 1
Timothy M. Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Let's hope the 24 guys were an exaggeration Or that they are all in the closet, too. Or that the family money can keep them quiet. But if Zach's past comes back to bite him in the butt, he can at least be with Will openly. 1
methodwriter85 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) It doesn't matter if there are rumors- what matters is if there's proof, and I don't think there would be. I graduated in 1987. As an aside...it's cool you graduated in 1987! I was in the class of 2005, and that's the year most of the people in my class were born!!! I even have some senior shirt somewhere that says "Class of '05 Made in 1987" or something. 1987 in general was a pretty cool year- Wall Street, Fatal Attraction, Nightmare on Elm Street Part 3, the rise of Debbie Gibson and her nemesis Tiffany, The Cure's Just Like Heaven, "Here I Go Again" by White Snake, "Hungry Eyes" from Dirty Dancing, and of course, my favorite tune from '87- "Don't Dream It's Over." (The guy who made Adventureland said that Don't Dream It's Over was perfect summer of '87 make-out music. )The late 80's had such a hideous aesthetic, but they also just seemed like a lot of fun. I'd rank 1987 as my third-favorite year of the 1980's, right behind 1984 and 1985. The 80's cheese was high in 1987, but in a fun way. Edited January 6, 2015 by methodwriter85 1
mmike1969 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 High School. What is "proof"? Proof is whatever my best friend's cousin's study parnter's boyfriend' brother's classmate in 3rd period Math two rows over said over lunch one day two years ago. 2
impunity Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) True, but by then, adult Zach will no longer be subject to the laws of high school and can probably attribute early experiences with guys his own age to experimentation. So, entirely off topic: Reply from Mark Arbour (author) It's interesting that Jacobs didn't do anything for Will...I'm not that up on the theories of counseling and how they'd envelope that scene. Looks like my intuition may have made me take a lucky stab at it. Honestly, I don't have a clue. I have no knowledge of or experience with counseling at all. I just figured Jacobs had worked out from Will's terminology that he was receiving help and decided not to interfere. On the other hand, from a literary perspective, it worked perfectly. Anything more would have been a distraction and interfered with the flow of the dialogue. I expect Jacobs probably checked back with Will after the session. Because he's nice. Edited January 6, 2015 by impunity
Kitt Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 It doesn't matter if there are rumors- what matters is if there's proof, and I don't think there would be. That's the thing about rumors - people don't need "proof" to believe or disbelieve them. And it does matter because should those rumors resurface during his college career it would affect both how he is treated on the college gridiron and his chances at the NFL. Remember - this is all taking place long before the first openly gay man got drafted this past year, and as I recall, that man hasn't made a whole lot of progress beyond "getting drafted". I can't help but wonder if that is all due to a need to develop his talent more or if his sexuality is playing a role. 3
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