Streak

[Westie]

You know, having read through the entire saga until I was caught up, this is the first time I am thoroughly disgusted with a chapter.  This entire situation with the pregnancy is just abhorrent from the way it was plotted by Elizabeth, to Alex' proposing a tripartite relationship.  So much for any real feelings he has for JJ--doing this before clearing it with him--AFTER JJ told him he wanted them to be  monogamous.

Further, Mark has seriously betrayed his own vision of his characters if he thinks JJ would go along with this for even a second, or that Will would tell JJ to go along with it.

Thank you Mark for trashing what was a very interesting addition to the CAP saga--I guess the resolution for Zach's problem with his parents has to be balanced by a totally evil mind-fuck elsewhere just to drive the plot.  JJ's feelings, mental stability with trust issues--fuck 'em, it's not vital to the story anymore because you want to have another threesome in the story.  Sorry, it's nowhere near the same thing--the others had genuine love and affection between the players, not an evil bitch spinning her web to get what she wants.

Not only have you betrayed the personalities of JJ and Will, but also of Nana, Wade and anyone else you trot out to support this travesty.

I am so glad that I was out of 'likes' when this monument to hypocrisy was posted...I won't bother wasting any more of them on this story...for a while, I'll try reading around the bits with Lord Scumbag and Mary Whore...if that isn't possible, perhaps I'll give up this book altogether and wait for the next one--maybe not since you seem to alter the rules your characters operate by at will.  I guess it's easier to alter your characters than to have a consistent view of them...not the sign of the great writer I had hitherto thought you to be.

As for Bridgemont--if that story spawned a complete asshole like Alex, then I won't waste my time on it beyond the couple chapters I've already read.

Anyone else want to join me in heading for the Exit in search of barf bags?

You have some serious issues. Mainly lack of manners, but I would suggest that your logic and reasoning is also fatally flawed. We know that Mary Ellen is a scheming bitch. We know that her mother is a scheming bitch. This is consistent with the story, the characters and the general timbre of the CAP saga. If you think otherwise then you haven't been paying attention.

 

I must admit that I thought JJ to be rather more open, calm and rational than I would have expected, but at the same time this story, much like the two before, are journeys of development and change for those characters. One of the over-riding themes within CAP is "strength through adversity" - it is completely in line with Mark's previous trail to have JJ come through a crucible stronger and more resilient than before - no longer a slave to his "issues". It is also consistent with Mark's writing that the character will get an opportunity to prove that new found resilience to others and to themselves.

 

Your later posts claim that this is not meant to be a personal attack. yet to call a writer a hypocrite, to question whether or not he is any good, and to suggest the story is making you physically sick IS a personal attack. You should be ashamed. This has more to do with your personal feelings about a storyline, and not some higher fidelity to the story. It's not illegitimate to dislike the direction a story heads in - but say it like it is, and not dressed up in some false morality.

 

Sorry method and Kitt, but that is, in plain English, BS...don't play the need to marry card in relation to the scheming bitch Mary Ellen is--he has the title to tell her to fuck off and find a real woman worthy of the title as his wife...and the money might have come from somewhere else in time--so no--Alex is and always will be an unprincipled scumbag

 

You're wrong. The last time someone was this wrong, he got off a plane from Munich and said "Peace for our time".

 

This child is the firstborn of the second heir apparent to a dukedom. You are suggesting that Alex tells her to "fuck off" in the full knowledge that his first born will officially be a "bastard", be barred from his right to inherit a title and be a social outcast within his own class? Moreover, you are suggesting that he puts the Bridgemont estate into the uncertainty of legal process by having an "heir" who is not the titular heir to the estate?

 

To inherit a dukedom, you must be born legitimate, which in English law still means that your parents have to be married. Alex is putting the honour of his unborn child and the reputation of his family first. Far from being unprincipled then.

 

Yes, he is going to get a financial sweetener - there is a long tradition of it within the British aristocracy. The Duke of Marlborough saved Blenheim Palace with a loveless marriage to an American woman who's mother was a scheming bitch wanting her daughter to have a title and position. Sound familiar?

Edited January 21, 2015 by Westie

[methodwriter85]

Yeah I recall when I was 16 how much the character of the skank ho bag I was banging mattered....

 

    I gotta agree with Tim here. If you were sexually interested in women, and you're 16 years old, you're telling me you wouldn't rail the shit out of a woman who looked like THIS even if you knew that she was a shitty person?

 

     I mean, I think Brody Jenner is a vapid tool, but I sure as hell would jump in bed with him if I had the chance.

 

    (Any gossip on him by the way, Private Tim? Brody's always struck me as a guy who wouldn't be opposed to messing around with a guy or two. Like in the frat boy "Oh, I was SO drunk!" kind of way.)

Edited January 21, 2015 by methodwriter85

[ColumbusGuy]

A sad difference what twenty years can make in a culture....nice to see that people no longer have respect for others, but also lost any respect for themselves.

 

And by the way, I said the chapter was hypocritical from the viewpoint of it's characters previous beliefs, not that Mark was a hypocrite.

And my manners don't allow me to make ad hominem attacks about others morality...I'm not a Christian, but my moral beliefs are firm and unwavering in respect for others beliefs. As Hippocrates said: Do No Harm...no exceptions, no qualifications to that statement. What higher principle can there be?  That includes harm to yourself as well as others, by the way.

And, I had all the drives of a 16 year old back then, but I also had respect for others and myself.

Edited January 22, 2015 by ColumbusGuy

[sat8997]

I always like it when you guys get all het up over your (well...not really yours, but you know what I mean) fictional characters.

 

And danged if I'm not seriously irritated by being put in the position of agreeing with PrivateTim.

[ColumbusGuy]

Mark, I was not attacking your person, just the inconsistency of the player's actions with those they exhibited in the past--and those players are Will, Wade, JJ--not M.E or Elizabeth or Alex-for they are being horribly consistent.

I consider you to be a great writer, as I've said often in reviews--this forest fire is proof of the high amount of feelings you can create with your work.

I'm sorry if you view this as personal when it is not, and I will delete the posts if you ask.

Otherwise, I'm done here--the rest of you may vilify at your pleasure. I retreat from the field on the moral high ground of being honest to my beliefs and not sinking to personal attacks.

[B1ue]

Happens to all of us, Sharon. He's an intelligent person, he's bound to say something any of us might agree with from time to time.

 

Although, in fact, I do think JJ caved a little fast, and also that he should have been more wary of Maryellen than he seems to be, if only because handing potential blackmail material to someone you KNOW is untrustworthy is not a best practice in my mind. Then again, her and Elizabeth already had as much as they needed to ruin Alex and JJ's reputations already, so its not like doing the deed would make anything any worse, and including her might make things better (not that JJ is thinking along those lines, and I find it a little strange that he isn't).

 

I will agree that JJ objecting to Maryellen on moral grounds is a hilarious thought. Plus, what exactly is she doing within these chapters that is so objectionable? I'm pretty sure this pregnancy took everyone by surprise, and its not like she's marrying Alex for his money. And she's being both honest and agreeable with Alex while they negotiate the terms. This could all be going down so much worse.

 

Final thought: Alex is a twerp. A nice enough guy for a starter boyfriend, but JJ can do better. Note, I said "nice," not "decent," "good," or even "kind."

 

Edit: "moral high ground"? Really?   

Edited January 22, 2015 by B1ue

[mmike1969]

Yeah I recall when I was 16 how much the character of the skank ho bag I was banging mattered....

I am sure he/she felt the same way with you too

 

Point is, what you want/get at 16 is entirely different then when people actually grow up.

 

The problem is, MED did not grow up, JJ is still growing up, and lord Al has questionable tastes.

 

Then there is Matt. MED says she didn't sleep with anyone prior since June. You know, with Matt.

[mmike1969]

Re B1lu's comment about Alex and him being a starter boyfriend....

 

Are you out of your f$@;()g mind?

 

I see Alex as a guy I have sex with at the bathhouse, respond to an ad in the local gay "newspaper" and maybe pay $40 an hour for or find a "date" with him on a phone app. (Yes I know it's too early for that). Nothing more.

 

Or perhaps I am misunderstanding the definition of Boyfriend all these years and I've been wrong all this time.

 

Looking back at those whom I DID call "boyfriend" and I realize no, it's not me, it's them.

[Mark Arbour]

Jeremy asked me how I felt about the latest controversy over this plot, and I told him that, quite frankly, I didn't give a shit.  That's not exactly true, because I do in fact enjoy it when people get emotional enough to really vent.  Having said that, I'll put a few more of my thoughts about this out there: 

 

1.  I love feedback, but it will not change the general direction of this story, or the plot line.  It's not unreasonable to dislike a plot direction, but it's incredibly unreasonable to expect me to change it. 

 

2.  These characters live in my mind, along with many other scary things.  They're acting quite in character at this point.  That's a common bullet pulled out and shot at me when people don't like the plot direction.  See number 1 above.

 

3.   This generally happens at least once in a CAP story, where some readers freak out over something.  I'd ask that you wait until the events play themselves out. 

 

4.  Finally, consider that with Mary Ellen, JJ, and Alex, they're all largely getting what they want in this deal...so far at least. 

[Kitt]

 

 

3.   This generally happens at least once in a CAP story, where some readers freak out over something.  I'd ask that you wait until the events play themselves out. 

 

[/quote

 

This was the point of my post. We just don't know where Mark will go next.

[B1ue]

Re B1lu's comment about Alex and him being a starter boyfriend....

 

Are you out of your f$@;()g mind?

 

I see Alex as a guy I have sex with at the bathhouse, respond to an ad in the local gay "newspaper" and maybe pay $40 an hour for or find a "date" with him on a phone app. (Yes I know it's too early for that). Nothing more.

 

I stand by my assessment. But you may have something about our definitions of boyfriend differing. I don't have a deep well of experience where long term relationships go. I don't have anything against such arrangements, they've simply never come my way, and I never pursued them with any enthusiasm. So I see Alex and JJ's relationship through that lens. And Alex makes decent arm candy, can hold a conversation, is enthusiastic about JJ's interests and career, and is good in bed. Plus, his mere existence wigs out the more annoying members of JJ's family, which cannot be overlooked. He's also a twerp, in that he doesn't seem to have a strong grasp of actions beget consequences, and is SO SHOCKED when consequences come calling, on top of being fairly selfish unless someone is calling him on it 24 hours a day. But that particular pair of personality traits would be true of the vast majority of people JJ might date.

 

So, starter boyfriend/teenage romance. Have a couple "first times," a few really cool dates, let it all peter out, move on within sixth months, tops. And then the next boyfriend or girlfriend will (probably) have so much less pressure attached to it, because you know you can handle yourself in intimate situations like holding hands at the movies.

 

Edit: If by "boyfriend" you thought I meant "someone with which he could have a deep, meaningful, lifelong relationship which will transcend time and whatever partners either might have for the rest of their lives" ala JP and Stef, then hell no. No no no no. I doubt JJ will speak to Alex ever again past the six month mark. If you thought I meant that, then no wonder you thought I was crazy.

Edited January 22, 2015 by B1ue

[methodwriter85]

I stand by my assessment. But you may have something about our definitions of boyfriend differing. I don't have a deep well of experience where long term relationships go. I don't have anything against such arrangements, they've simply never come my way, and I never pursued them with any enthusiasm. So I see Alex and JJ's relationship through that lens. And Alex makes decent arm candy, can hold a conversation, is enthusiastic about JJ's interests and career, and is good in bed. Plus, his mere existence wigs out the more annoying members of JJ's family, which cannot be overlooked. He's also a twerp, in that he doesn't seem to have a strong grasp of actions beget consequences, and is SO SHOCKED when consequences come calling, on top of being fairly selfish unless someone is calling him on it 24 hours a day. But that particular pair of personality traits would be true of the vast majority of people JJ might date.

 

So, starter boyfriend/teenage romance. Have a couple "first times," a few really cool dates, let it all peter out, move on within sixth months, tops. And then the next boyfriend or girlfriend will (probably) have so much less pressure attached to it, because you know you can handle yourself in intimate situations like holding hands at the movies.

 

Edit: If by "boyfriend" you thought I meant "someone with which he could have a deep, meaningful, lifelong relationship which will transcend time and whatever partners either might have for the rest of their lives" ala JP and Stef, then hell no. No no no no. I doubt JJ will speak to Alex ever again past the six month mark. If you thought I meant that, then no wonder you thought I was crazy.

 

 

    Yeah, if JJ and Alex were still together by the start of 2004, I'd call bullshit on this, but Alex really does make sense as JJ's starter love interest. We got to keep in mind here that JJ doesn't really relate to people his age because of his lifestyle, and said lifestyle tends to make it hard to actually hold a serious relationship. Alex is hot, doesn't mind JJ's crazy schedule, and he is interested in JJ's career and treats him like a princess. It totally works. (For now.)

Edited January 23, 2015 by methodwriter85

[Timothy M.]

I must be getting sappy.   I like Brad and Marc together. I think they are good for each other and have potential to be a long term couple. The clever advice Marc gave Brad about how to deal with the Will / Darius issue was a nice example.

I hope saying this won't hex things...

Edited January 25, 2015 by Timothy M.

[Bucket1]

I think Mark is eviler than any of us could have imagined. Is that a word?? Mark Arbour has a dark dark mind...

 

I have been known to express my "dissatisfaction" with Lord Vordemort on a number of occasions and have even mentioned that he should suffer at the hands of a Zamboni. Everyone screamed that I was unfair. 

 

So Mr Arbour then sets him up with the manipulative teen-diva.   I thought this was more than punishment enough for what happened in Flux.

 

Now we move into "cruel and unusual" territory as Mark has set the poor soul up for a life with ME - I think I am Lord V's best friend compared to Mark Arbour. 

Edited January 25, 2015 by Bucket1

[Bucket1]

Matt as a sexual sounding board - smart move on JJ's part, Matt has the experience and cares enough about JJ without a lot of the "brother baggage"

[methodwriter85]

Well, that, and Matt's sexuality isn't the easiest to pin down, either. He's basically gay because his physical and emotional attractions point towards men, but he also clearly has a physical attraction to women or else he wouldn't have kept having sex with them after he came out.

 

I'm really disappointed that MaryEllen got JJ's girl-virginity. I wanted someone better for him, and for it to be someone that he was in love with. Then again, losing your virginity is rarely like it was for Joey Potter. I'm glad he enjoyed it, though.

 

I don't think a Dawson's Creek kind of lost virginity storyline would've worked for JJ, anyway. He's way too damaged to fall in love with a sweet girl-next-door and have a sweet high school relationship. Still, I kind of wanted that for him and I'm a bit disappointed that he didn't get that.

 

Another person pointed out that he didn't wear a condom. Good catch. MaryEllen might be pregnant, but JJ strikes me as someone who would be absolutely paranoid about getting an STD. Has he even been tested yet? Then again, he's just getting used to being sexually active after being relatively chaste as compared to his family members.

 

 

I still think Alex is toxic for JJ, I don't find anything healthy or romantic in the way he handled this affair. The random -bad- thoughts JJ has about him summarizes very well how I see him. (I guess I have to deal with this, because you are still my favorite author even though I don't agree with this part of the story )

 

Alex and JJ have a pretty clear expiration stamp on them. You think Alex will stick around Boston after he finishes grad school? No way. Alex clearly can't stand America. JJ could follow him when he goes back to London, but then he'd have to go through the headache of trying to become a figure skater for the British, and basically starting over when the Olympics are 1-2 years away.

 

I'd be shocked if they were still together by 2004/2005 in any event.

 

As for Brad, I kind of want Darius to blow his plans. This isn't 1972, when guys were forced to fight. Darius should be allowed to make his own decisions and live his own life as a 20-year old man.

Edited January 25, 2015 by methodwriter85

[Bucket1]

I'm concerned because JJ can be a bit naive at times

 

“I’ll have to try to make that one,” she said with a smile.  That shocked me.  She’d really consider flying halfway across the country to watch me skate?  Suddenly she seemed a lot more attractive to me. 

 

A promise to watch him skate doesn't make her any less unattractive in my eyes. A wee bit of flirting and suddenly she is attractive - thinking with his dick and diva-crown.

 

So what happens when JJ dumps Alex but wants to keep fucking ME?

[Kitt]

 

 

Another person pointed out that he didn't wear a condom. Good catch. MaryEllen might be pregnant, but JJ strikes me as someone who would be absolutely paranoid about getting an STD. Has he even been tested yet? Then again, he's just getting used to being sexually active after being relatively chaste as compared to his family members.

 

 

 

When JJ was hospitalized after his reaction to the molestation and the subsequent death of the coach, I am sure a full battery of tests for HIV and other STD's were included as part of his care.  He may not realize it, but no doctor treating a traumatized teen who had been sexually abused would have skipped that!

 A wee bit of flirting and suddenly she is attractive - thinking with his dick and diva-crown.

 

 

The boy is 16, not quite 17. He has just discovered that sex can be a good thing. He is a walking hormone and if he was NOT thinking with his dick it would shock me!

[impunity]

 

The boy is 16, not quite 17. He has just discovered that sex can be a good thing. He is a walking hormone and if he was NOT thinking with his dick it would shock me!

 

JJ is a narcissist and an attention whore. I expect he'd find anyone who was willing to let him be the center of attention at least somewhat attractive.

 

If Mary Ellen has started her prenatal care (no guarantees there), she's probably been reasonably thoroughly tested, certainly for HIV, hepatitis B , and syphilis. The rest might not have been tested for unless she had symptoms, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have them.

Edited January 25, 2015 by impunity

[Mark Arbour]

 

Alex and JJ have a pretty clear expiration stamp on them. You think Alex will stick around Boston after he finishes grad school? No way. Alex clearly can't stand America. JJ could follow him when he goes back to London, but then he'd have to go through the headache of trying to become a figure skater for the British, and basically starting over when the Olympics are 1-2 years away.

 

I'd be shocked if they were still together by 2004/2005 in any event.

 

As for Brad, I kind of want Darius to blow his plans. This isn't 1972, when guys were forced to fight. Darius should be allowed to make his own decisions and live his own life as a 20-year old man.

 

I think that Alex is actually pretty fond of America.  He's got a bit of a disdain that is probably not unusual, but he seems to be happy in this world populated by Americans.  Having said that, he is a Briton first and foremost, so sticking around in Boston is not in the cards for him. 

 

Ponder this, though.  For people like JJ and Alex, they really don't have to let international borders impede their relationship.  There's nothing to prevent JJ from spending the bulk of his non-competition time in Britain.

[methodwriter85]

I think that Alex is actually pretty fond of America.  He's got a bit of a disdain that is probably not unusual, but he seems to be happy in this world populated by Americans.  Having said that, he is a Briton first and foremost, so sticking around in Boston is not in the cards for him. 

 

Ponder this, though.  For people like JJ and Alex, they really don't have to let international borders impede their relationship.  There's nothing to prevent JJ from spending the bulk of his non-competition time in Britain.

 

Good point. JJ is very much a jet-set guy, and I can totally see him spending a lot of time in Britain from April to August.

 

I still don't think this was set up as something with any kind of longevity; however a non-monogamous long-distance relationship could actually work pretty well.

 

Still, I gotta agree with Blue's "Alex is the starter boyfriend" bit.

Edited January 25, 2015 by methodwriter85

[methodwriter85]

 

So need to start by saying I kept looking for JJ in Greensborough this weekend. I guess he might be old enough to be a commentator? Darn.

 

Well, Johnny Weir and Evan Lysacek are both basically retired, but Jeremy Abbott is still kicking it. Still, at 29 it's hard to see JJ still competing, especially given that we're writing JJ as a figure skater known for his quad jumps. That would put a pretty big toll on his body. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ has hip surgery before he's 30.

 

I think Jeremy Abbott's longevity can be attributed to him taking awhile to find his footing and really get elite, but with JJ we're following the Johnny Weir path of someone who rose to elite in an insanely short amount of time. My guess is that JJ's career will be over by 2010.

 

It's strange to think of a retired 29-year old, but that's what JJ likely would be. I can totally see JJ trying to go the "Dancing with the Stars" famewhore route that Evan took.

Edited January 25, 2015 by methodwriter85

[Bucket1]

Well, Johnny Weir and Evan Lysacek are both basically retired, but Jeremy Abbott is still kicking it. Still, at 29 it's hard to see JJ still competing, especially given that we're writing JJ as a figure skater known for his quad jumps. That would put a pretty big toll on his body. I wouldn't be surprised if JJ has hip surgery before he's 30.

 

I think Jeremy Abbott's longevity can be attributed to him taking awhile to find his footing and really get elite, but with JJ we're following the Johnny Weir path of someone who rose to elite in an insanely short amount of time. My guess is that JJ's career will be over by 2010.

 

It's strange to think of a retired 29-year old, but that's what JJ likely would be. I can totally see JJ trying to go the "Dancing with the Stars" famewhore route that Evan took.

 

Comparing the two athletes, I don't see a future for JJ. I presume that he will have one but I just don't have any real idea about post retirement for him. Zach on the other hand, I can see a number of options for him. He seems to be a more capable individual. Is that diva-phobia on my behalf?

[B1ue]

I assumed JJ would go into acting or modeling, or both, after he retired from skating. He has the looks and the contacts for either, although he'd have to hit a couple more growth spurts in order to go very far with modeling.

[impunity]

I don't see JJ's being interested in anything as tedious as modeling. I'm picturing high-end designer...the sort that does the creative bits and has minions to do the actual work.

Edited January 27, 2015 by impunity