Streak

[Timothy M.]

Chapter 44 certainly got (some of) the Will haters and lovers out of the closet.   I bet you're loving that, Mark.

 

I wasn't going to review, but I was inspired by some of the comments from other readers.

 

After I posted the review I recalled a very important conversation between Brad and Steph (and JP?) after the shoe/clothes/car wrecking incident of Will running away.

As far as I remember, Steph pointed out how Brad's business method of WIN-whatever-the-costs spilled over into his personal life, particularly with regard to his son. With epic disasterous results     Steph also tried to teach Brad his own approach which was to create win-win solutions rather than win-lose situations. OK the immediate business gain might be less, but in the long run Steph's method paid off. I can't recall whether Brad ever really understood or agreed or changed his ways.

Maybe they need to have the same conversation again in this new context?

I mean, we can all understand and sympathize with Brad's pursuit of happiness - his own as well as Marc's, but does it have to come at a cost to his family? If Brad is too embarrassed to emulate Will's behavior regarding Zach, he should at least be able to look at JP and Steph, who most of the time manage to do a great job of balancing their own personal happiness with that of their partner and their family (Steph had a small set-back with the war investments, but he got it sorted - I shall forego mentioning who forced him to, LOL)

 

Anyway, I'll stop rambling, but I would be interested to know if anyone else saw a parallel ?

 

Edit - oops forgot it was Marc and not Mark, spelled it wrong in the review too.   but no editing there.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Timothy M.

[impunity]

Chapter 44 certainly got (some of) the Will haters and lovers out of the closet.   I bet you're loving that, Mark.

 

I wasn't going to review, but I was inspired by some of the comments from other readers.

 

After I posted the review I recalled a very important conversation between Brad and Stef (and JP?) after the shoe/clothes/car wrecking incident of Will running away.

As far as I remember, Stef pointed out how Brad's business method of WIN-whatever-the-costs spilled over into his personal life, particularly with regard to his son. With epic disastrous results     Stef also tried to teach Brad his own approach which was to create win-win solutions rather than win-lose situations. OK the immediate business gain might be less, but in the long run Stef''s method paid off. I can't recall whether Brad ever really understood or agreed or changed his ways.

Maybe they need to have the same conversation again in this new context?

I mean, we can all understand and sympathize with Brad's pursuit of happiness - his own as well as Marc's, but does it have to come at a cost to his family? If Brad is too embarrassed to emulate Will's behavior regarding Zach, he should at least be able to look at JP and Stef, who most of the time manage to do a great job of balancing their own personal happiness with that of their partner and their family (Stef had a small set-back with the war investments, but he got it sorted - I shall forego mentioning who forced him to, LOL)

 

Anyway, I'll stop rambling, but I would be interested to know if anyone else saw a parallel ?

 

I am firmly in the Will-loving camp!

 

I don't remember that exact conversation between Stef and Brad, but I agree this scene continues the theme. I have always liked Brad as a character, but he is very self-absorbed. It didn't help that Robbie was kind of the same. If things between Marc and Brad work out, Marc will probably help Brad become more balanced in his interactions with the rest of the family.

[Mark Arbour]

I just responded to a post in the Valiant streak, talking about Lord Nelson and his obsession with Lady Hamilton.  That liaison was incredibly damaging to him, yet Nelson could not (or would not) give her up.  He let love overrule his common sense and his obligations, IMHO. 

 

Brad is not so different than that.  When he is in love, or infatuated, he tends to give that center stage, and everything else drops down in priority unless there's a crisis.  Think back to how Will called him on that in Paternity, after he became almost obsessively focused on maintaining his relationship with Robbie.  Perhaps he knows that love is where he's most vulnerable, and focuses his efforts there to try to control that world and limit the damage it can cause him.

[methodwriter85]

Brad is not so different than that.  When he is in love, or infatuated, he tends to give that center stage, and everything else drops down in priority unless there's a crisis.  Think back to how Will called him on that in Paternity, after he became almost obsessively focused on maintaining his relationship with Robbie.  Perhaps he knows that love is where he's most vulnerable, and focuses his efforts there to try to control that world and limit the damage it can cause him.

 

You've been pretty consistent about that- Brad's love life has always been so dramatic because of that.

 

What's interesting is that Will kind of started out that way, where he got all sprung on some guy and got super-in to him, but I think after the drama of Tony, he doesn't really do that anymore. He grew out of it, but Brad never did. Interesting enough, JJ is the same way that Brad is about his love/infatuations. However, I think JJ could handle an open-relationship in a way that Brad never could, because JJ doesn't want to control the person he's in a relationship with. He just wants the other person to like him the best.

 

I can't see JJ beating Mary Ellen, because while he's bitchy, she's vicious.

 

JJ won't "beat her", but he's pretty good about understanding her game. JJ is surprisingly good at observing people and realizing how they tick. He's fighting back in subtle ways, although I kind of just want JJ to say "Fuck it" and move on from tis.

Edited April 20, 2015 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

Some thoughts:

 

Based on the characters as they stand now, Mary Ellen is probably right. If Alex and JJ haven't fizzled out on their own by the time the baby comes around, Alex's sense of duty to fatherhood will force him to become involved with the little sprog, which JJ won't want anything to do with. Much like Riley disrupted Matt and Wade, so will probably will the littlest Granger.

 

But what fun would being predictable be?

 

I rolled my eyes when it was revealed that Escorial had a prescribed time to open presents, because of course they did.

[methodwriter85]

Some thoughts:

 

Based on the characters as they stand now, Mary Ellen is probably right. If Alex and JJ haven't fizzled out on their own by the time the baby comes around, Alex's sense of duty to fatherhood will force him to become involved with the little sprog, which JJ won't want anything to do with. Much like Riley disrupted Matt and Wade, so will probably will the littlest Granger.

 

Agreed. Marry Ellen has obviously picked up on the fact that JJ is not exactly a kid-friendly guy, and she's right- JJ is not going to work with someone who's a parent, unless their kid is either grown or shipped off to boarding school. I actually get a kick out of just how anti-kid JJ is...it really makes him stand out against his brothers. Darius and Will are probably going to be dads by age 25, whereas I wouldn't be surprised if instead JJ gets himself "fixed" in his 20's just to make sure he never accidentally sires a kid. Which given Jim and Rich Crampton are his bio-father and bio-half-brother, it's a totally valid concern. LOL.

 

I really liked the class ring scenes with Zach and Will. (Not just because that was my era of high school- 2003 was my sophomore year, 2004 was my junior year.) But I liked that both Zach and Will weren't really "about" their high schools, you know what I mean? Like there were the people who had a ton of school spirit, and were very into the experience, and there were the people that didn't really care. Not that they were anti-social, but their high school wasn't the big focus of their lives. It made total sense that Will never planned on getting school ring, but then Zach decides to relent to this silly, sentimental high school tradition to make his big announcement that they're going to finish out this high school romance in the same school together.

Edited April 27, 2015 by methodwriter85

[Timothy M.]

My guess would be Alex will be more than happy to escape from ME and whatever sprogs she produces in order to spend time with JJ. And I'm sure he'll organize an army of nannies and tutors to counteract her influence, until the children can be sent off to boarding school at age 11. Involvement in the upbringing of their offspring is not a tradition in the British aristocracy - and I'm not expecting much maternal instinct from ME. But using her kids as assets in ongoing strategies for influence and attention sounds about right.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Timothy M.

[Daddydavek]

TimothyM is probably right that Alex will not have much interest in the day to day upbringing of his infant child.   However, I also never expected Alex and JJ to be a forever thing so I do expect there will be some falling out eventually and probably because JJ finds someone more interesting who isn't encumbered by being married to Mary Ellen....

 

Brad has lead a pretty chaotic life so far and I'm beginning to wonder as he is now about forty if he isn't ready to settle down with someone and Marc seems to be a pretty good choice.  I never gave Marc much chance when he was first introduced into the story.   His insight into the family and their personalities at an artistic level seems almost prescient and if he can use that ability to maintain Brad's interest, it seems like a win-win situation.  

 

My thoughts on Will are still ready for almost anything.   While he and Zach are fixated on each other and finishing out highschool together, they are still in highschool and the likelihood that they will maintain a forever relationship as mates is a mountain they still have to climb and conquer.

 

Wade and Matt are another story.   Wade has his definite goals in life and sees Matt besides him.  Matt sees himself besides Wade, but what is going to do with his life?

 

All in all, Arbour has a lot of ways the story can go and I really wonder where it heads after the Streak is finished?

[mmike1969]

I'm surprised with Zach's decision to spend his last semester with Will. Honestly, it doesn't make sense to me. He made his name at Don Bosco, not Menlo.

 

And are British weddings tossed together quickly? Slut Ho ME didn't announce she was preggers more then a month ago and they are getting married next month? Really? I wish my brother's wedding was planned that quickly.

[Kitt]

When aristocracy, pregnancy and legitimacy are all involved I guess the faster the better! Personally I will not be convinced Alex is actually the father until after DNA testing proves it!

[B1ue]

I wouldn't put it past Big Momma's capabilities to fake even that.

 

Edit: Upon reflection, the smartest thing for the Grangers to do would be to get the test done, but discreetly, and hopefully without telling Mary Ellen. Go through with the marriage in the meantime. If the baby is Alex's, great! If the baby is not, use that test result if she ever tries to pull a fast one herself. That buys the Grangers the best of all worlds; an heiress that will be utterly devoted to the family, if not necessarily to Alex himself. Alex might object, but that he gets to keep JJ on the side might quash that.

Edited April 30, 2015 by B1ue

[methodwriter85]

I wouldn't put it past Big Momma's capabilities to fake even that.

 

Edit: Upon reflection, the smartest thing for the Grangers to do would be to get the test done, but discreetly, and hopefully without telling Mary Ellen. Go through with the marriage in the meantime. If the baby is Alex's, great! If the baby is not, use that test result if she ever tries to pull a fast one herself. That buys the Grangers the best of all worlds; an heiress that will be utterly devoted to the family, if not necessarily to Alex himself. Alex might object, but that he gets to keep JJ on the side might quash that.

 

I do think Mary Ellen is over-estimating her ability to control Alex and the Grangers. Something tells me that while she's a vicious social climber, they have ways of dealing with her and making sure she's kept in line.

[impunity]

I do think Mary Ellen is over-estimating her ability to control Alex and the Grangers. Something tells me that while she's a vicious social climber, they have ways of dealing with her and making sure she's kept in line.

Mary Ellen had always been at the very top of the Virginia social heap. I don't think she even realizes there's a ladder for her to climb. However, I completely agree with your assessment of the Grangers' ability to keep her in line.

[mmike1969]

If The Palace couldn't controll Prince Harry, what makes anyone think the Grangers control Slut ME?

[methodwriter85]

I don't think Mary Ellen wants to be Fergie. I think she's like Kathryn from Cruel Intentions- she wants to be a nasty bitch, but she doesn't want the reputation for it. She wants the image of being Lady Bridgemont, respectable and classy.

[impunity]

If The Palace couldn't controll Prince Harry, what makes anyone think the Grangers control Slut ME?

A prince is a very different proposition to the upstart American wife of an Earl.

[Never Surrender]

A prince is a very different proposition to the upstart American wife of an Earl.

 

this, 110x over! and we all love Prince Harry 

Edited May 2, 2015 by Never Surrender

[methodwriter85]

 

Really glad you didn't stick to history and had Jeremy win gold.

 

When Daisy and I were plotting out JJ's career, years ago, the idea was that Jeremy would be along the vein of a "close but no cigar" contender, meaning that he's always in the top 3 or top 4 and always a threat, but not actually winning the whole thing, kind of like how the Philadelphia Eagles are always contenders but never wins the Super Bowl. This was with the idea that it would preserve the winners of the big events like U.S. Nationals, Worlds, Olympics, etc. but at the same time make JJ a realistic threat to real skaters at the time like Johnny Weir or Timothy Goebel. I mean, Johnny Weir would never bother with someone who was placing 7th or 8 at all events, you know?

 

Then Mark overruled us on that when he decided to make a story about athletes on a winning streak. LOL. I think it was a good move- as Westie pointed out to me, sports history doesn't really need to be set in stone here in CAP. It's not Mark having 9/11 not happen or something like that. So we're going to take a bit more liberty with sports history as opposed to political/social history.

 

In any event, I've been waiting forever for Johnny Weir and JJ to interact, and damn that didn't disappoint. Talk about two hissing cats. LOL.

[mmike1969]

So Alex's parents don't approve of the upstart ME.

 

Don't blane them. It would be like if my parents showed up at my wedding with the man I wanted to marry. I just wish I didn't have to say the words "you were right about him" all the God damn time.

[methodwriter85]

Well, that just about ends JJ's championship 2002-2003 season. Poor dude. At least it's not a hip problem. I think those are a lot harder to come back from for skaters.

If I were JJ, I'd take this time to go back to school and spend the summer of '03 in summer school to get his diploma as soon as possible. If he kept up with his independent studies he should be a junior right about now with Marie and Will.

 

JJ could actually be a semester ahead, if he was taking courses during the summer with his tutor. In any event, though he's going to miss Worlds, he should be ready right in time for the 2003-2004 season.

 

As for Mary Ellen, she was a bitch but it's also true that an arrangement like this can't work if the wife doesn't want it. I think Mary Ellen would be okay with Alex having affairs on the side with men, but she knows that Alex really has feelings for him, and she's probably sensed that JJ is good at manipulating Alex and she's not having that as "the other woman."

Edited May 10, 2015 by methodwriter85

[mmike1969]

I'm quite shocked with Tim's review re: chapter 48. It looked liked he was defending real life history

 

I don't give a crap how much figure skating gets rewritten, CAP is much more important than who placed 4th in the U.S. Men's Nationals in 2002. Quick!, Who was it? If you said Michael Savoie or if you have a clue who Ryan Jahnke or Scott Smith are, you really need a life

I am almost positive that Tim follows figure skating WAY more then he is letting on. Not that there is anything wrong with it

 

And yes, Private Tim is also correct (God damn it Mark Arbour, STOP making me say this!! This is the SECOND time I've said this in two years!!) when dealing with Will's sudden need to be around his dad when he went full blown teen male on Brad when he was whining about not having a guest bedroom in a condo/Apt in SF.

 

To Will: 1) it's not your house. 2) Apts/condos in SF are expensive to have. 3) I'm actually shocked that Brad/Marc have even that many rooms in Telegraph Hill. 4) why don't YOU buy a condo in SF. Not the first time you bought something on a spur of the moment. 5) get your Boyfriend to fuck you. Your emotions are showing.

 

As others have mentioned in the reviews re Zach: My prediction is he's not going to be outed. That's the predictable story line. I'm thinking a serious auto accident with both legs being broken, a skull fracture and suffering from amnesia. Make him forget he's out to Will and Family and have him go WAY back into the closet.

 

Re Brad and Boytoy:

I'm actually happy for the two. Is it because Will's pissed off? Maybe.

Edited May 13, 2015 by mmike1969

[Timothy M.]

Will's sudden need to be around his dad when he went full blown teen male on Brad when he was whining about not having a guest bedroom in a condo/Apt in SF.

 

The lack of a guestroom or even a couch in his office indicated Brad's complete lack of interest in having ANY visitor staying overnight, including his children and any other family member or close friend (assuming he and Marc have any of those  ). And surely you're not saying Brad couldn't afford whatever number of rooms he wanted, no matter the location ?!

 

Or are you implying that all parents whose children are >18 or emancipated, are ridiculous when they give a guest room priority in the hope their offspring may visit for more than a day?

 

We have seen time and time again that Will craves the interest and love of Brad, he simply does not want Brad to control his life. And in fact Will didn't complain about the lack of a guest room until Brad dismissed the notion of coming to Escorial for Sunday dinners, which Will saw as a nice compromise. How do you think JP felt when his son showed a total lack of interest in the Family like that?

 

And you'll note JP didn't comment on the content of Will's reaction to Brad's behavior or defend Brad, he only noted the lack of diplomacy.* To me JP is the best indicator of whether Will is over the top. Which I freely admit he is at times, and he even noticed the struggle to contain himself this time. To me that says he's aware of his issues and tries to do better. I can't really say the same about Brad.

 

But to Will haters he can never do anything right and any feelings he has are to be dismissed as nonsense. But that's OK, because I love seeing you rant, it makes the Will parts even more fun.

 

* When we walked out of the condo building, Grand finally spoke.  “That was perhaps not one of your more diplomatic encounters.”

  “Perhaps,” I said, then chuckled with him as we made our way back to Union Square.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2015 by Timothy M.

[mmike1969]

Meh. I've lived in SF and I can tell you, no you can't just add more rooms to a space where you live. You just have to be lucky enough that there was already enough space in the first place OR you buy a bigger space.

 

Neighbors to the left, right, above and below you are not going to care about how much $$$ you have. Sometimes you found that one spot that you love and no one is going to buy me out.

 

Unless, of course, you offer obscene $$$, then you can buy me out. You that desperate for a second bedroom or parking space?

 

Or you might have been just lucky enough when they were first building out the building and made a deal with the builder, like JP did when he bought a whole floor in Chicago, you are stuck with what you got.

[Timothy M.]

Meh. I've lived in SF and I can tell you, no you can't just add more rooms to a space where you live. You just have to be lucky enough that there was already enough space in the first place OR you buy a bigger space.

 

Fair enough, I'll accept getting the view they wanted meant only three bedrooms were available. But I'm sure Brad could have afforded a comfortable sofa-that-folds-out-to-a-bed in his office, if he wanted to. The fact remains Brad considers the condo a private place for him and Marc and noone else. He wasn't even happy to have Will and JP visit (did you notice how surprised JP was that Will hadn't seen the place yet?).

 

I'm not saying Brad doesn't have the right to feel that way, but then he should have done the Sunday dinners with his Family, as Will suggested. If nothing else for the sake of Marc, who probaby would like to spend time with Brad's family. He certainly seemed happy to see JP and Will, and I cannot help feeling Marc might be a tad freaked out about Brad being all possessive and keeping his lover away from everyone else. Or am I seeing ghosts ?

Edited May 14, 2015 by Timothy M.

[methodwriter85]

Meh. I've lived in SF and I can tell you, no you can't just add more rooms to a space where you live. You just have to be lucky enough that there was already enough space in the first place OR you buy a bigger space.

 

SF has very strict building codes and an oppositions towards building super-tall skyscrapers like Manhattan, which is why housing is so expensive there- there's a very limited stock, especially in protected historic districts. On one hand it's cool to see to see skyline pictures of all these beautiful 1920's/1930's houses; but the drawback is that people are pretty cramped and they can't build up because again, San Francisco doesn't want to be Manhattan.

 

 

 

Your earlier books jumped a few years between each of them, but that has stopped. Just wondering why....

 

Mark said that in retrospect, he thinks he might have massively slowed down the timeline after Bloodlines (this was the last book where years passed between books) because he knew 9/11 was coming, and he was putting it off. I do think the pace has picked up somewhat after 9/11 (2001 and 2002 were covered by three books and the last chapter of Paternity, while 1999 and 2000 took four books).

 

I think there's a lot of interesting historical stuff to cover for 2003 and 2004, but I do hope a time jump does come in. I don't want to age in real-time to see these characters deal with the Global Financial Crisis of 2008. And I don't want to wait until 2027 to see what adorable teenaged shenanigans Riley and Maddy get into. (I really hope they won't consider themselves brother and sister because man I want to ship them.)

 

The other reason why I think time jumps are needed is that it starts to become kind of ridiculous that all of these things happen to people within a very constrained period in their lives. It also gives us a chance to see the different places people are with their lives, and then kind of explain how they got there, like we ended CAP with Jeff being this promising college baseball player, to him in 1967 being a drop-out junkie. Connecting the dots was always interesting, but we kind of lost that because the family never really gets much "off time", where big chunks of their life aren't documented to us.

 

 

On the other hand, this IS a pretty fascinating decade with a lot of dramatic material. As Times put it, "The 2000's- the Worst Decade Ever?" There was 9/11, the Iraq War, the Tsunami, Hurricane Katrina, Virginia Tech, etc etc.

 

 

I hope this isn't the last book concerning JJ. I am under the impression you don't like writing about him. He's largely been ignored from a narrative point of view, and the instances where he did have a significant role, he's always had a rough time

 

JJ is just one of those guys who can't ever seem to catch a break. I still think it's hilarious that he wins the U.S. Championships- but the one that is remembered for how mediocre the guys skated.

Edited May 14, 2015 by methodwriter85