Destiny - A Novel By Ac Benus

[Puppilull]

For discussion of themes and topics.

Here's a link to read the story.

https://www.gayauthors.org/story/ac-benus/destiny-anovel

Edited July 2, 2015 by Puppilull

[Puppilull]

Might be good to post this here too, to get the ball rolling!

 

I've read Destiny now, so I'm up to speed. 

 

One thing I react to are the very harsh words some use about mrs Shaw, Hamish and Christie. Mrs Shaw might be getting a bit more sympathy now, but many readers are really hard on the siblings. I might be to eager to see good in people, but honestly. What kind of person would I be if I had lived their lives? Left to raise themselves to a large extent. Who took care of them? Mrs Shaw didn't even seem to know her eldest had a problem with nightmares. 

 

Sure, they are older now. Almost grown, but a life like that has to leave scars. They've lived with death in their very own house for years and years. In the end, they might have to just disconnect to save their sanity. Lashing out to keep Jack at arm's length, so they won't get hurt again. 

 

End rant! I did warn you in the Dignity forum about my ranting abilities... 

[Timothy M.]

I thought the same in Dignity, I felt Jack's siblings were perfectly understandable , but I have to admit, their reaction to Linc does not endear them to me.

[J.HunterDunn]

I know I am new to the discussion, so hello to all.

 

I am not as lenient in my appreciation of the siblings. Christie walked in to something she was shocked about: Jack and Linc making love. If she thought her mother should know about that, she could have just brought it up in a private chat with her mother. Instead she chose the dinner table for quite a malicious attack. So no sympathy at all for her.

 

I have a problem with homophobic behaviour. No explanation about unbringing, background or lack of parental attention will ever be good enough to justify that.

 

Looking forward to more of the story, for I sense we haven't seen the end yet of what the siblings are capable of.

 

Reread this after posting and want to make clear, that I don't for a minute want to imply that you don't have a problem with homophobic behavior, Pupilull.

Edited July 2, 2015 by J.HunterDunn

[AC Benus]

Might be good to post this here too, to get the ball rolling!

 

I've read Destiny now, so I'm up to speed. 

 

One thing I react to are the very harsh words some use about mrs Shaw, Hamish and Christie. Mrs Shaw might be getting a bit more sympathy now, but many readers are really hard on the siblings. I might be to eager to see good in people, but honestly. What kind of person would I be if I had lived their lives? Left to raise themselves to a large extent. Who took care of them? Mrs Shaw didn't even seem to know her eldest had a problem with nightmares. 

 

Sure, they are older now. Almost grown, but a life like that has to leave scars. They've lived with death in their very own house for years and years. In the end, they might have to just disconnect to save their sanity. Lashing out to keep Jack at arm's length, so they won't get hurt again. 

 

End rant! I did warn you in the Dignity forum about my ranting abilities... 

You say something here that I always try to remember: what would I be like if I had led their lives?

 

With the older Shaw children, I think your sympathies are leading you to some insightful places. The death of the father was a rough blow for everyone, but I think we must also feel for Jack, as Hamish and Christie seemed to band together to shut him out. That must have been very, very painful for Jack, and may go a long way towards explaining just how close he feels to Dawn. She is more like his sister to him than Christie. Sad, perhaps, but true.

 

We will be getting a few more glimpses into how Christie regards her younger brother later on. As for Hamish, I'm afraid he's a lot more closed down than any of the Shaws may want to admit. You are adroit to bring up the nightmares, but if his mom does not know about them, then it's because he does not want her to. 

 

Thank you for setting up this forum, and for starting us out with a firecracker 'rant!' Please keep them coming     

[AC Benus]

I thought the same in Dignity, I felt Jack's siblings were perfectly understandable , but I have to admit, their reaction to Linc does not endear them to me.

Thanks for the comment, Tim. It seems they really went out of their way to spoil Thanksgiving dinner. I think I advised you the first time not to read Chapter 3 on a delicate stomach; that's still pretty sound advice, imo.        

[AC Benus]

I know I am new to the discussion, so hello to all.

 

I am not as lenient in my appreciation of the siblings. Christie walked in to something she was shocked about: Jack and Linc making love. If she thought her mother should know about that, she could have just brought it up in a private chat with her mother. Instead she chose the dinner table for quite a malicious attack. So no sympathy at all for her.

 

I have a problem with homophobic behaviour. No explanation about unbringing, background or lack of parental attention will ever be good enough to justify that.

 

Looking forward to more of the story, for I sense we haven't seen the end yet of what the siblings are capable of.

 

Reread this after posting and want to make clear, that I don't for a minute want to imply that you don't have a problem with homophobic behavior, Pupilull.

My take is that what Christie unleashed at the dinner table would not have come out that way if she didn't feel Hamish was being treated poorly.

 

That doesn't excuse her outburst, or the horrible level of judgment both the older Shaw kids brought to bear on Jack and Lincoln, but maybe it shows she wasn't planning on revealing what she saw.

 

As for the thing Hamish said under his breath to the two Gay young men across the table from him, that's inexcusable. That boy is messed it.

 

Jack's reaction to it, now, for my money – that level of calm resignation and fearless looking at the hard facts of things – that stole the show. I guess we're seeing more evidence that Jack and Lincoln make a good pairing 

[AC Benus]

For those of you who have read the Thanksgiving chapter, I'd like to reassure you that chapter 4 will be a bit of a break. We'll have a nice outing, and a some change of pace from all the stress at home. 

 

Plus, Hamish is driving back to Virgina Tech, so things will lighten up some.

[Timothy M.]

The shopping trip was a good break, AC, but I still want to know which Shakespeare play the gift depicts.

 

And there was a reminder of another of the 'sore' spots of this story. It almost got buried under all the Family drama in the Thanksgiving chapter, but Linc and Dawn's chat brought it back up: The digusting media interest in 'the Leukemia Kid'. To me it's one of the important themes of the story and you portray it so well. We can see the TV scenes and imagine evey prying camera and nosy comment, even when you only hint at them.

 

The whole tribute-to-Jack thing left outside his house is another of those over-the-top reactions, at least as it pertains to strangers. Yet on the other hand I can see Christine's point. Many of the messages were probably left with the best of intentions (I cannot now recall who started the whole thing), so it also seems callous to throw it all away. I wish I could believe her intentions are good, in that she'll read them all, and pass on those which are from friends or have messages which could cheer her mother up.

[J.HunterDunn]

I agree with Tim on the unhealthy attention media have for anything that can make a juicy story. Dawn and Linc fortunately are also aware that the attention-span is a short one whenever there's an even more sensational "news-item".

 

I hadn't noticed the practice of laying flowers, messages, balloons, bears and what all, before the death of Lady Di. I don't know whether that event started it, but I don't recall having it seen before that. In the case of Lady Di it was a public figure, and understandable, but I too fail to see the relevance of making these tributes when total strangers are concerned.

 

Contrary to Jack's mom, who in my opinion treats the fact that people donated quite a lot of money for her son quite lightly, Christie seems to have some attention for the people who showed concern. It seems out of character.

[Timothy M.]

Contrary to Jack's mom, who in my opinion treats the fact that people donated quite a lot of money for her son quite lightly, Christie seems to have some attention for the people who showed concern. It seems out of character.

 

or perhaps she just naturally opposes her mom's opinion

[AC Benus]

Thanks for the great postings today. I will have to think of some 'great' answers...

 

In the meantime - at the risk of thoroughly annoying all of you - concerning the Shakespeare reference, I'll only say for now:

 

"Lector, si monumentum requiris, circumspice."  <3 <3 <3

[J.HunterDunn]

More "luctor" than "lector" as far as I'm concerned

[Puppilull]

I finally had time to read the latest chapter. One line that had me reading it several times was this:

 

"I still have a lot to teach myself, and a lot of life to live before I look at the world with hopefully non-skeptical eyes, but for right now…"

 

At first it struck me as so odd. You go from naive to cynical, no? But then I started thinking. I was very cynical in my teens. Now that I'm older, I find myself getting more and more naive. Maybe because I want to believe that people are good? It's like I made a conscious choice to be naive, to trust and try and stay open to people. I find I really like naive people now. They used to drive me nuts...

[Puppilull]

The tribute thing isn't so weird to me. As a parent, I can understand how other people could get very emotionally involved in a stranger and her kid. They see themselves. "But for the grace of God..."

 

The tying of ribbons to get people home isn't a new thing? That song about the yellow ribbon isn't new.

 

The media interest is a two edged sword. On one hand, they want the news spread so they find Jack. For that to work, people need to get emotionally involved. Now, it's not so easy to get the media to stop since the viewers are so involved and want to know what happens. So why blame the media? As consumers of content, we are also to blame.

[AC Benus]

The shopping trip was a good break, AC, but I still want to know which Shakespeare play the gift depicts.

 

And there was a reminder of another of the 'sore' spots of this story. It almost got buried under all the Family drama in the Thanksgiving chapter, but Linc and Dawn's chat brought it back up: The digusting media interest in 'the Leukemia Kid'. To me it's one of the important themes of the story and you portray it so well. We can see the TV scenes and imagine evey prying camera and nosy comment, even when you only hint at them.

 

The whole tribute-to-Jack thing left outside his house is another of those over-the-top reactions, at least as it pertains to strangers. Yet on the other hand I can see Christine's point. Many of the messages were probably left with the best of intentions (I cannot now recall who started the whole thing), so it also seems callous to throw it all away. I wish I could believe her intentions are good, in that she'll read them all, and pass on those which are from friends or have messages which could cheer her mother up.

Thanks for the comments, Tim. The one element I wished to remain consistent between Dignity and Destiny was this media pressure lurking in the background. In the new book, it naturally has to expand, for the former search for Jack now becomes the daily desire to know if he's going to make it. It sucks for his mom and Lincoln, however Jack does not seem to be phased by it. He also seems to have no desire to court it either – as for his siblings, I'm not so sure.

 

You raise an interesting point, and it's one I had not thought about, but I wonder if Christie actually did go through all those cards she culled and saved. Truth is…at this point, I do not know.    

Edited July 12, 2015 by AC Benus

[AC Benus]

I agree with Tim on the unhealthy attention media have for anything that can make a juicy story. Dawn and Linc fortunately are also aware that the attention-span is a short one whenever there's an even more sensational "news-item".

 

I hadn't noticed the practice of laying flowers, messages, balloons, bears and what all, before the death of Lady Di. I don't know whether that event started it, but I don't recall having it seen before that. In the case of Lady Di it was a public figure, and understandable, but I too fail to see the relevance of making these tributes when total strangers are concerned.

 

Contrary to Jack's mom, who in my opinion treats the fact that people donated quite a lot of money for her son quite lightly, Christie seems to have some attention for the people who showed concern. It seems out of character.

Thanks for the comments, J.HunterDunn. There are probably some hints in Dignity as to what Christie's feelings are about the Jack memorial. Some people are 'romantic' in the way they express grief – think of Queen Victoria's endless display of mourning for Prince Albert – so I don't know if part of her personality tends in that direction, but I think it's a real possibility. Probably this is how Dawn is perceiving it – pomp over substance.

 

You make me think about when I personally remember 'memorials' popping up, and for me the first time being aware of it was in 1979. During the Iran Hostage Crisis, people visited the homes of the captive's families with gifts, cards and candles. As 'Rocky,' one of the young Marines being held was from Saint Louis, I saw this type of reporting quite regularly in my home town.  

 

The practice may be older than this in the U.S., I don't know.  

or perhaps she just naturally opposes her mom's opinion

lol, astute, and that could be

Edited July 12, 2015 by AC Benus

[AC Benus]

More "luctor" than "lector" as far as I'm concerned

Aw, man – "Struggler, look around"..? That advice may work too  

[AC Benus]

I finally had time to read the latest chapter. One line that had me reading it several times was this:

 

"I still have a lot to teach myself, and a lot of life to live before I look at the world with hopefully non-skeptical eyes, but for right now…"

 

At first it struck me as so odd. You go from naive to cynical, no? But then I started thinking. I was very cynical in my teens. Now that I'm older, I find myself getting more and more naive. Maybe because I want to believe that people are good? It's like I made a conscious choice to be naive, to trust and try and stay open to people. I find I really like naive people now. They used to drive me nuts...

Thanks, Puppilull. I'm really glad you put this comment here, for yes, I too think there's an arc to age and cynicism. Perhaps there is just something perfect about being an adolescent and 'snarky' that fits like hand in glove. A lot of people have to mature out of that phase, and I'd rather have it that way than the other.

 

Do you agree that it's more destructive to be hopeful and optimistic as a teen, and then increasingly dour and jaded as the years roll by? Oh well, some people are like that as well.

 

For me, I try to be balanced in this regard. I bet you do too     

[AC Benus]

The tribute thing isn't so weird to me. As a parent, I can understand how other people could get very emotionally involved in a stranger and her kid. They see themselves. "But for the grace of God..."

 

The tying of ribbons to get people home isn't a new thing? That song about the yellow ribbon isn't new.

 

The media interest is a two edged sword. On one hand, they want the news spread so they find Jack. For that to work, people need to get emotionally involved. Now, it's not so easy to get the media to stop since the viewers are so involved and want to know what happens. So why blame the media? As consumers of content, we are also to blame.

Thanks, Puppilull. I think you are bringing up two points that can merge into a better understanding of Mrs. Shaw's feelings. Namely, that while Jack was 'out there' somewhere, the memorial served a purpose. It kept people thinking about her son, and gave them a locus to direct their support for the search efforts. In this regard it became a surrogate for Jack himself, but one that is totally redundant now that Jack is home. His mom may simply feel it's time for the stand-in to hit the road. All attention should now go to supporting the young man as he fights for his life.

 

I agree – as you can probably read in these two books! – that I think we are consumers of 'content,' and push the media for newer and newer novelty, which not be such a good thing.   

[Puppilull]

Do you agree that it's more destructive to be hopeful and optimistic as a teen, and then increasingly dour and jaded as the years roll by? Oh well, some people are like that as well.

 

For me, I try to be balanced in this regard. I bet you do too

 

I would think too many people get handled too roughly by life and make the journey from optimistic to cynical. It's a natural reaction if you've had bad experiences.

 

I have been moderately lucky in my life, so it hasn't been a struggle to remain an optimist. Still, it is almost frighteningly easy to fall into the trap to only see the bad things in life. Maybe it's human nature, intended to drive us on. It's a pity so many people stay in a place in life that makes them bitter instead of seeking change.

 

So yes, I've made a choice to focus on the good things in my life, while I accept the bad and try to improve what I can. Not so easy at is sounds...

[AC Benus]

... Not so easy at is sounds...

Amen

[J.HunterDunn]

In the reviews on chapter 5 there has already been noted that Linc doesn't qualify as "family" by the medical centre.

As far as I know where I live these kind of limitations don't apply.

 

I also noticed that Jake's entourage need to have visitor tags, even with pictures.

On account of my work I am a regular visitor of hospitals and have never encountered these kind of requirements.The hospitals I visited you just walk in and don't even have to make yourself known at a reception desk, which has always amazed me security-wise.

 

I'd like to know whether the family/dog tag requirement is typical for US hospitals, or a more widespread phenomenon.

[AC Benus]

In the reviews on chapter 5 there has already been noted that Linc doesn't qualify as "family" by the medical centre.

As far as I know where I live these kind of limitations don't apply.

 

I also noticed that Jake's entourage need to have visitor tags, even with pictures.

On account of my work I am a regular visitor of hospitals and have never encountered these kind of requirements.The hospitals I visited you just walk in and don't even have to make yourself known at a reception desk, which has always amazed me security-wise.

 

I'd like to know whether the family/dog tag requirement is typical for US hospitals, or a more widespread phenomenon.

It's not typical, but when approaching areas where children are being treated, or wards attached to medical schools, security becomes more of an issue. I do not know the specific details of Stanford Medical Center, but for the novel, Jack's unwanted 'celebrity' status should be more than enough to make the Center want to shield him from intrusions to the best of their abilities. At least I hope that's plausible for the story.       

[AC Benus]

In the reviews on chapter 5 there has already been noted that Linc doesn't qualify as "family" by the medical centre.

As far as I know where I live these kind of limitations don't apply.

 

As for as family connections and denied access for LGBT folks to loved-ones in hospitals, it was one of the main social drivers changing hearts and minds about marriage equality in the U.S.

 

During the deep, dark Bush years, when Retrogressives were actively courting hate against Gay people to garner 'religion-based' votes, there came a nightmare example out of Florida.

 

A family was there very briefly to board a cruise ship. Before the boat left port, one of the spouses had a very serious heart attack and was rushed to the hospital. The wife, along with their children, rushed to the place only to be told by a hospital administrator that 'gay' marriage is outlawed in Florida, and because of her (the administrator's) personal 'beliefs,' the wife and children would not be allowed to see the patient.

 

The woman died. Alone, with her family only feet away, but denied access to her. The hospital then refused to release the remains to her wife, saying the same thing about 'outlawed' behavior.

 

Few things in recent times have been more disgraceful. My heart breaks for that family.