[dkstories] Figuring out how to write stories, by looking at Dan's

[C James]

Oh, shoot! I've put this in the wrong area! I meant to put it in Dan's main forum, not in the DOR forum!

I also can't figure out how to delete my own post... Could someone either move this to the main forum if it would be appropriate there, or delete this post (or tell me how to delete my own posts). SORRY!!!

 

My original post below.......

 

This might be a little off topic, as it's only partially about dkstories's stories. If so, I'll ask anyone who objects and has the ability to do so to please delete my post.

 

Basically, I'm endeavoring to write some stories (Gay Fiction). I've been reading Dan's old blog entries for clues as to how he writes, and also I've been attempting to analyze both Dan's and Dom's respective styles.

 

I've been looking closely at structure, which is one of my weak points. Both Dan and Dom seem to run between 8000 and 11000 words per chapter on average.

 

So far, this has been a major problem for me. I've boxed myself into a corner due to the story mechanics: the first chapter (Of a story tentatively titled "The Diablerie") as it stands is only about 3000 words, and can't really be expanded much further due to the nature of the story, and needs to end where it does as it's a perfect chapter end, cliffhanger and all. The following chapters are more standard in length (at least the five I have so far are).

 

So, for my first question: Would such a chapter length be acceptable, when there are reasons for doing so?

 

Also, have Dan or Dom ever mentioned precisely how they write? For the story I mentioned, plus two others I'm working on, I write the outline, then go back and fill in major details, and then go over it a third time, chapter by chapter, and fill in the rest. From reading Dan's comments in his blog and here, it does not appear that he writes in that manner: He's mentioned that sometimes things surprise him as he's writing, and thus major changes occur (such as Davey in DO falling for Brian, not Brandon).

Edited March 17, 2006 by C James

[Trebs]

Please, please, please, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!!

 

 

 

 

It is hard enough living with his ego as it is now...

 

 

 

 

PLEASE... be careful of the monster you are about to unleash...

[Xandra Kitee]

For the story I mentioned, plus two others I'm working on, I write the outline, then go back and fill in major details, and then go over it a third time, chapter by chapter, and fill in the rest. From reading Dan's comments in his blog and here, it does not appear that he writes in that manner: He's mentioned that sometimes things surprise him as he's writing, and thus major changes occur (such as Davey in DO falling for Brian, not Brandon).

I don't think both are incompatible. And I don't think Dan is the only one to change things from his main idea while he's writing.

 

An outline is just an outline. Once the characters are in "motion" some things suddenly appear and might lead naturally towards developments that were not visible from a simple outline.

 

It's an old arguing. Does thought produce writing ? Or does writing produce thought ? I tend too think that often ideas are not really pre-existent to writing. They're forged and formed while writing and might reach unexpected results.

[C James]

I don't think both are incompatible. And I don't think Dan is the only one to change things from his main idea while he's writing.

 

An outline is just an outline. Once the characters are in "motion" some things suddenly appear and might lead naturally towards developments that were not visible from a simple outline.

 

It's an old arguing. Does thought produce writing ? Or does writing produce thought ? I tend too think that often ideas are not really pre-existent to writing. They're forged and formed while writing and might reach unexpected results.

 

I think you are right... I've found myself coming up with new sub-plots and twists out of nowhere while writing. Thanks!

 

Please, please, please, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!!

It is hard enough living with his ego as it is now...

PLEASE... be careful of the monster you are about to unleash...

 

Dang you, Trebs! I'm recovering from eye surgery today (had it a few hours ago) and I'm not supposed to do anything strenuous, like rolling around on the floor laughing myself silly!!!

 

Watcha tryin to do, kill me?

 

BTW, Dan announced DOR 37 would be released on Friday, just as I'd scheduled the surgery! So, I knew I'd have to read it with one eye, and that one blurry from the drops!! And, I did! (It was either that, or wait until tomorrow, by which time I should be fully recovered).

 

All I'm trying to figure out is: how did Dan find out when I was having the surgery, in order to set me up like this??

[dkstories]

Each author must find the 'chapter size' that fits them best. I prefer chapters between 12-15 pages in MS Word. When I wrote Mists of Fate, most chapters were between 20-30 pages, but I realized I didn't like them quite as much as the 12-15 page setup. Still, I have a few chapters that might be 11, because that's where I want to end it, and I've had a few in DOR that hit 22 or more, because I wanted to fit more in to that chapter.

 

If your first chapter is really shorter than your expected chapters for the rest of the story, make it a 'Prologue' instead of Chapter 1...

 

As for outlines...I've done it before, and I've found that I might start off sticking to the outline, but usually by the time I'm halfway through, I'm moving away from the outline. What hasn't changed yet is that I almost always begin writing with a 'starting' scene in my head and an 'ending' scene. The rest of the story is how the main characters get from the 'start' to the 'end'.

 

For instance, DOR has gone through A LOT of changes, but the ending scene is exactly the same as what I originally planned. The journey from Start to End changed a lot, but those two were almost exactly as I imagined it at the beginning...

[C James]

Each author must find the 'chapter size' that fits them best. I prefer chapters between 12-15 pages in MS Word. When I wrote Mists of Fate, most chapters were between 20-30 pages, but I realized I didn't like them quite as much as the 12-15 page setup. Still, I have a few chapters that might be 11, because that's where I want to end it, and I've had a few in DOR that hit 22 or more, because I wanted to fit more in to that chapter.

 

I've been going by word count, even though I'm writing in MS word. I only checked a few chapters from a few of your stories for word count, so I missed the variance. OK, so, variability of chapter length works. Thanks.

 

If your first chapter is really shorter than your expected chapters for the rest of the story, make it a 'Prologue' instead of Chapter 1...

 

Unfortunatly, I don't think I can without wrecking it. It's a bit complex, as the story does not start at the beginning, and the early parts are told via a flashback by the protagonist. The seqence and tempo are rather critical in this case, so I think I've managed to write myself into a corner.

 

I think I can alter it slightly, and move a bit of the development of one charachter into chapter one, which will push it to around 5k words.

 

As for outlines...I've done it before, and I've found that I might start off sticking to the outline, but usually by the time I'm halfway through, I'm moving away from the outline. What hasn't changed yet is that I almost always begin writing with a 'starting' scene in my head and an 'ending' scene. The rest of the story is how the main characters get from the 'start' to the 'end'.

 

For instance, DOR has gone through A LOT of changes, but the ending scene is exactly the same as what I originally planned. The journey from Start to End changed a lot, but those two were almost exactly as I imagined it at the beginning...

 

I've found that I've disregarded the outline a few times, such as when an interesting sub-plot occurs to me. I'll keep open to that, and try and let the characters develop "on their own" a bit more, like you do.

 

My present plans are to get the first nine chapters totally finished, along with at least five chapters each of the other two I'm working on. I'm not a fast writer so this will probably take a few weeks. Once I reach that goal, I will probably have to take the really big step: let someone besides me read them. I've yet to check out the requirements for the story archive here at GA, but I'll do so.

 

Thanks, Dan, both for the input, and also for inspiring me to try my hand at this. (Specifically, it was DO that inspired me).

[Ann]

Unfortunatly, I don't think I can without wrecking it. It's a bit complex, as the story does not start at the beginning, and the early parts are told via a flashback by the protagonist. The seqence and tempo are rather critical in this case, so I think I've managed to write myself into a corner.

 

I'm just a reader, but may I make a suggestion? When Dom started The Ordinary Us, the first chapter was A LOT (it seemed like A LOT) shorter than what we were used to from him, and it ended with a cliffhanger. But, it was still a chapter. Then he posted Ch. 2 only a few days (maybe just a day) later to make sure his readers stayed happy and off his back. You might want to try that because with new authors, I for one, forget what I

[C James]

I'm just a reader, but may I make a suggestion? When Dom started The Ordinary Us, the first chapter was A LOT (it seemed like A LOT) shorter than what we were used to from him, and it ended with a cliffhanger. But, it was still a chapter. Then he posted Ch. 2 only a few days (maybe just a day) later to make sure his readers stayed happy and off his back. You might want to try that because with new authors, I for one, forget what I