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LOL spikey is so upset with Lucas he called Joel Lucas twice in his ranting review (The part starting with Lucas's main problem is, once they got to New York, work, family, friends were his main priority with his relationship coming in dead last.)

 

But I agree with everything he said, particularly the dad thing. :yes:

Aww man! This is what I get for typing a review on my phone during my lunch break. I keep telling myself I need to do a quick proofread before I hit that post button. That's the one thing about this website, I'd really love to be able to go back and edit my reviews. I can't believe I did that. I need a beta for my epic rants. Want the job Tim? :D

 

I'm just glad I'm not the only one who saw the problem with dinner at the parents. Sometimes I get knee-jerky when characters act like idiots. But like I always say, Puppilull, if you get me on a rant than you know you're doing something right. If the writing was bad I really wouldn't care.

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I need a beta for my epic rants. Want the job Tim? :D

 

LOL, spikey, I can't even keep names in my own reviews straight at times. :facepalm:

 

But yeah, it will be great when GA shifts to the new software and we can edit reviews and replies.

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Hmm... I really didn't see the dinner as something bad. More like Lucas wanting to stay in touch with his parents too. And they are his mom and dad. For me, it's kind of hard to say no when my mom asks me to come to dinner. But getting torn between people you love is quite common...

 

And don't get me wrong. I love the ranting! I was just not prepared for it. Hasn't happened with my other stories in this way. 

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Hmm... I really didn't see the dinner as something bad. More like Lucas wanting to stay in touch with his parents too. And they are his mom and dad. For me, it's kind of hard to say no when my mom asks me to come to dinner. But getting torn between people you love is quite common...

 

And don't get me wrong. I love the ranting! I was just not prepared for it. Hasn't happened with my other stories in this way. 

 

But why did they invite Lucas but not Joel? Lucas had to text Joel after he arrived at his parents, and don't tell me he hasn't given them Joel's cell phone number. I bet his dad asked Lucas to drop by on the way home on some pretext and then threw in the dinner invitation, so he could have a go at him about staying, before Joel arrived. They sure haven't made an effort to keep in touch with Joel and make him feel welcome - or at least not what we've heard about. Which is very stupid, because he would be their best ally if he enjoyed being in NY.

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At least my mom only invites me to things, after 23 years of relationship. If I receive an invitation, she assumes I'll share it with hubby and there's no need for a separate invite. But maybe other people do it in other ways... 

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Hmm... I really didn't see the dinner as something bad. More like Lucas wanting to stay in touch with his parents too. And they are his mom and dad.

I agree at the surface there's absolutely nothing wrong with going over to the parents for dinner. To me though, and I guess judging be her post LL, took issue with the fact that Lucas in the last few chapters has blown Joel off multiple times, including the night before the dinner in this chapter. He came home from work spent 5 minutes eating dinner, not saying a word to Joel, then goes into his office and is immediately on the phone with Pierce. He claims to be so swamped with work he can't take an hour or two for Joel and is busy all night after getting home. Than the very next day, instead of being late yet again, he's inviting Joel to his parents place for dinner. Ok cool, except he was already at the parents house when he actually texted Joel. So he can't spare an hour for his boyfriend, but he clearly has no problem leaving work early to be at the parents as soon as the invitation is extended? And not just leaving work early, but actually leaving work behind, not working at his parent's house. To me it was just the perfect illustration of what Lucas is doing wrong. Everything and everybody else seems to come before Joel.

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We have this expression in Sweden: You don't miss the cow until the stall is empty.

 

Maybe that could explain Lucas' behaviour...? 

 

And I'm not comparing Joel to a cow. Just to be clear... ;) 

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I agree at the surface there's absolutely nothing wrong with going over to the parents for dinner. To me though, and I guess judging be her post LL, took issue with the fact that Lucas in the last few chapters has blown Joel off multiple times, including the night before the dinner in this chapter. He came home from work spent 5 minutes eating dinner, not saying a word to Joel, then goes into his office and is immediately on the phone with Pierce. He claims to be so swamped with work he can't take an hour or two for Joel and is busy all night after getting home. Than the very next day, instead of being late yet again, he's inviting Joel to his parents place for dinner. Ok cool, except he was already at the parents house when he actually texted Joel. So he can't spare an hour for his boyfriend, but he clearly has no problem leaving work early to be at the parents as soon as the invitation is extended? And not just leaving work early, but actually leaving work behind, not working at his parent's house. To me it was just the perfect illustration of what Lucas is doing wrong. Everything and everybody else seems to come before Joel.

 

I agree, there's nothing wrong with going to the parent's place for dinner, but there can be if you can't be arsed to take 5 minutes to spend time with your boyfriend, but can go visit the parents... and text your b/f from their house... not even coming home to spend a few minutes alone first.  It just speaks to priorities to me.  

We have this expression in Sweden: You don't miss the cow until the stall is empty.

 

Maybe that could explain Lucas' behaviour...? 

 

And I'm not comparing Joel to a cow. Just to be clear... ;)

 

Terrible 80's hair band hair, but your saying reminded me of this song.  lol

 

Edited by LitLover
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We have this expression in Sweden: You don't miss the cow until the stall is empty.

 

Maybe that could explain Lucas' behaviour...? 

 

And I'm not comparing Joel to a cow. Just to be clear... ;)

 

Which makes me wonder Joel taking a surprise trip back to Sweden wouldn't give Lucas a much needed wake up call. Not that I think Joel should play games, or that they should so easily discard what they have. These two love each other, and that kind of committed relationship is hard to find. I don't think either of them want to go back to how it was before they met. They just need to stop acting like idiots.

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Which makes me wonder Joel taking a surprise trip back to Sweden wouldn't give Lucas a much needed wake up call. Not that I think Joel should play games, or that they should so easily discard what they have. These two love each other, and that kind of committed relationship is hard to find. I don't think either of them want to go back to how it was before they met. They just need to stop acting like idiots.

 

Maybe having Joel become so involved in coaching that he doesn't have time to continue to play the 'wife' would send the same message?

Edit:  Not with Joel playing games, but legitimately becoming really involved in coaching and thinking Lucas would be too busy to miss him anyways. 

Edited by LitLover
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Maybe having Joel become so involved in coaching that he doesn't have time to continue to play the 'wife' would send the same message?

 

Edit:  Not with Joel playing games, but legitimately becoming really involved in coaching and thinking Lucas would be too busy to miss him anyways.

 

That's always valid, and not a bad idea. I just wonder if that alone would give Lucas further justification to be at work. Since they'd both just be so busy with their work, that's just standard big city living and people living in the rat race. Everyone's busy so it's okay. Would Joel being too busy to pick up the dry cleaning enough to show Lucas there's a problem. There's an inconvenience and there's a huge sign their relationship is getting increasingly rocky.

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Terrible 80's hair band hair, but your saying reminded me of this song.  lol

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i28UEoLXVFQ

Love the video! Whatever you might think about the hair (a certain author would probably gauge his eyes out...), I can find it a bit depressing that today the accepted esthetic for me has changed so much. Now it's much narrower and conservative. A pity. Sure, a perm and man liner isn't for everyone, but we didn't bat an eyelid back then.

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How long do they think they can put off their talk? Somehow I was waiting for an explosion, like when Joel forgot to pick up Lucas' shoes or when Lucas won't listen to Joel, when he wanted to talk about his day at the ice rink.

 

I suspected Joel will find something ice-related soon. I find being assintant coach is perfect for him. He is good with kids and he is not left alone when his insecurites get the better of him.

 

I agree with the ranting folks: the dinner was not OK, and Lucas' father is shallow, when he thinks life is all about a job. Lucas could support Joel? He is acting like a housewife already.

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Love the video! Whatever you might think about the hair (a certain author would probably gauge his eyes out...), I can find it a bit depressing that today the accepted esthetic for me has changed so much. Now it's much narrower and conservative. A pity. Sure, a perm and man liner isn't for everyone, but we didn't bat an eyelid back then.

13239922_1740497922838339_67955952175293

 

I don't know who you mean with "a certain author"  :rofl:

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Yes, what will happen when they both have activities outside the home...? Good or bad...?

 

I think Spikey might be right, and although I would hope he would see the error of his ways, Lucas could easily use it as an excuse to continue to work long hours and ignore Joel.  :/  

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I think Spikey might be right, and although I would hope he would see the error of his ways, Lucas could easily use it as an excuse to continue to work long hours and ignore Joel.  :/

 

Well of course I'm right! :D

 

No but seriously I reserve the right to be proven wrong by any author at any point. Though I'm usually pretty good at reading personalities and picking up on hints. Though I should say that while I knew Joel and Lucas would run into problems, I didn't see Lucas becoming as much of a clueless yahoo as he's been. So characters can always surprise me.

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...some "talk" is needed I think J should wait until the trial is over. It is a one time critical situation for L and he deserves support and a chance. His behavior is stress related.

 

I think JAR has a good point here. Do we and Joel know when the case will be over? As far as I understand, it's not so much a matter of a trial in court, but more trying to figure out what went wrong and how to solve the controversy between the parties. So there might not be a deadline as with a court case. 

 

One of the problems may be that Lucas didn't specify beforehand how many hours and days a week he would work. He's being paid a lump sum, right? So the company is getting too much value for money, and especially if the price includes being stressed and a bad relationship with Joel. What about weekends? Right now it seems as if they don't have any time together at all?

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I started to read this forum and got attacked by Thoreal ... what a waste of a perfectly good man ...

 

As said in my review: Joel better stop trying to play house wife. He knew he has a lawyer as boyfriend; those beasts work 24/7 when necessary - as J would if he was still cop and there was a crisis. Men should understand that (i know I am sexist). This is not about playing games but not relying on another person to fill you empty life.

 

Most gay men are players. Only because J grew up on the North Pole doesn't mean that (single) gay man have a much more "relaxed" attitude to sex.

 

So: J get your head out of your mess and quite blaming it on your boyfriend. NOT cool.

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I think JAR has a good point here. Do we and Joel know when the case will be over? As far as I understand, it's not so much a matter of a trial in court, but more trying to figure out what went wrong and how to solve the controversy between the parties. So there might not be a deadline as with a court case. 

 

One of the problems may be that Lucas didn't specify beforehand how many hours and days a week he would work. He's being paid a lump sum, right? So the company is getting too much value for money, and especially if the price includes being stressed and a bad relationship with Joel. What about weekends? Right now it seems as if they don't have any time together at all?

 

I didn't want the story to get all 'lawyery', so I've kept the legal mumbojumbo to a minimum. However, there is i timelimit and they are heading to court. About six months work has been scheduled and the trial is supposed to be over at the end of February/beginning of March. At first, there was a lot of prep work and now they are moving into the trial itself. That means long days in court followed byeven longer nights at the office trying to fix things that go pearshaped during the day... A lot of scrambling, I can tell you. Some fake it till you make it as well. But a lot of work. 

 

Lucas didn't realize just how many hours he would be working. It's the first time our young lawyer has been involved in something like this. Remember, he's not a litigator. As for money, I'm guessing they work on a contingency fee, which means the more money the client recieves, the more money the firm gets...

 

I'm thinking Ander has had a long term relationship with the client and the firm handled the deal gone sour.  Therefore, losing is not an option. 

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I started to read this forum and got attacked by Thoreal ... what a waste of a perfectly good man ...

 

As said in my review: Joel better stop trying to play house wife. He knew he has a lawyer as boyfriend; those beasts work 24/7 when necessary - as J would if he was still cop and there was a crisis. Men should understand that (i know I am sexist). This is not about playing games but not relying on another person to fill you empty life.

 

Most gay men are players. Only because J grew up on the North Pole doesn't mean that (single) gay man have a much more "relaxed" attitude to sex.

 

So: J get your head out of your mess and quite blaming it on your boyfriend. NOT cool.

 

Sorry about Thor... LOL Should have come with a warning. Just as that video. 

 

I think anyone involved with a lawyer needs to get that, or the relationship is doomed. We do work as much as needed, no questions asked. It's just our thing. Besides, I think many do that. It's the price of ambition perhaps. Still, I get that it is kind of a shock to Joel. Not exactly the same tempo up north. 

 

Hopefully Joel will get other things to focus on, besides Lucas. Could help them, I think. Never a good thing to pin your entire existence on one person. Or am I being terribly unromantic now...? :)

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So: J get your head out of your mess and quite blaming it on your boyfriend. NOT cool.

 

Uhm, John, Joel does in fact not blame Lucas. Us readers (and Lars) may be doing it, but so far Joel has been making excuses for Lucas and chiding himself for being silly. Stop blaming Joel for feeling ignored, because that's what's happening.

I'm not saying, Lucas does it on purpose or that he doesn't have a good reason to be busy. But did Joel know what he signed up for? Did Lucas even tell Joel how busy he would be and that he would have to find ways to entertain himself? Saying Joel should have known is unfair, because Lucas made it seem like he was just going back to help out, not take on a full-time job with overtime.

Joel wants to be supportive and he did in fact finally find a way to fill his time. But it's hard to be happy in a relationship when your partner spends all his time (on the phone) with a colleague / former lover who seems to completely dismiss you as irrelevant.

What's more, Lucas does not seem particularly happy either, and I think he needs to man up (the way he tried with his dad) and make it clear to everyone where his priorities are. He knows Joel is shy and has difficulties standing up for himself. Why does he let his friends dismiss Joel? (Apart from the one time he apparently got angry with Kevin).

Why didn't Lucas think of a way for Joel to play ice hockey? He's the American with all the connections, and he knew how much time Joel spent on it in Sweden. I bet he could have made it a condition for coming back. Same as with a limit on the working hours.

 

I think it is not so much Lucas being busy which annoys us, but the fact he hardly makes any effort to keep his relationship with Joel going, apart from sex. Joel isn't high maintenance and he could have managed with very little of Lucas' time if only the man had paid attention and showed a minimum of considerations for Joel's needs and feelings.

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Same as with a limit on the working hours.

 

Sorry, Tim... That would never happen in the real lawyer world...  Not with a case like this. 

 

But you're right. Joel doesn't really blame Lucas. He just needs something to change. Question is what? 

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