AFriendlyFace

I won't argue that point myself since only Nick himself could say exactly what his intent and motives were. That was amusing. It did remind me though that I have heard some minorities (and now that I think of it, even a few white people) refer to something as "white". Sort of like, "I can't believe you did that, that was such a white thing to do". When asked to clarify exactly what they meant by that, I've generally been given a response along the lines of, "oh I didn't really mean it as an insult to you, YOU don't act like that, I didn't even mean it as an insult to white people, I was just describing the behaviour". I don't know exactly what they meant, and again I'd probably shy away from using such a term. I'd probably conclude though that this was some sort of socialized response/concept. Furthermore, even if it did start with derogatory intent toward that group of people, I really do believe most of the people I've heard use it didn't have any malicious intent toward white people. They may indeed have been using it in a derogatory fashion, but the word (while perhaps in some instances negatively used in and of itself) was no longer tied to the group of people it originally referred to. Largely in the minds of the people involved the word itself had lost it's symbolic value to represent the group which it originally described. There's probably a very large degree of "disconnect" between what people really mean and think about something and what they might rationally be forced to conclude from cold, hard, unemotional, objective evidence. As far as I'm concerned though it's the intent which matters in this case. If it's said in a harmless manner, or perhaps in a joking, playful way, and is thus clearly not meant to hurt anyone. Then I'll just brush it off. When it comes down to it words only mean what people mean by them; if they mean two different things to each of the people involved then I'd say the best course of action is to ask for clarification and accept the response they give you. I can't speak for Nick but it seems unlikely that he'd have any reason to attack gay people, I also have a general understanding of what was meant by his usage of the word, and as I understand it there really isn't any malevolent intent toward gay people. I do however commend you on your integrity with taking a stand for something you believe in. You're right to brazenly stand by while injustice is done does characterize moral bankruptcy. We must indeed stand up for human rights. I just don't think this particular cause is a black and white example of gay people being ridiculed. Anyway that's pretty much the extent of my personal knowledge and opinions about the matter, and again I was simply trying to describe how I saw it. Yes it was and I quite enjoyed thinking about it, thank you for the stimulating debate. Anyway take care and have an awesome day Kevin (who is devoid of malicious intent in this matter)

I really don't have an opinion about the man myself, to be completely honest I have no idea what he even looks like. You said that he's Larry David's manager?? I know who Larry David is, and wouldn't think him gay, but I really don't know Fierstein. Assuming however, that I did characterize him as gay (at least to some degree) based on his appearance and mannerisms I would definitely not categorize my conclusion as a prejudice. I hold no negative opinions toward "effiminate" men, "butch" women, "typical" people, very "masculine" men, nor very "feminine" women. So if I concluded that he acted effiminate, and therefore must/might be gay then I would readily admit that my perception was a conditioned response from the society I live in. Clearly the general, pervasive societal beliefs regarding behaviour and sexuality (whether right or wrong) has leaked into my psyche and would be affecting my judgement. However, since this judgement would not, for me, come attached to any sort of value statement about the behaviour/orientation then I wouldn't actually call it a prejudice. I realize I'm probably missing the actual point of this thread completely. Which I'm assuming isn't so much to argue whether or not behaviour/mannerisms predict orientation, nor is it to debate the value and correctness of these interpertations. I realize the main point is probably just to debate the specific case of Harvey Fierstein's sexuality (as per the Ryan Seacrest thread); however, unfortunately I really can't make an actual statement about that . I have enjoyed the discussion I've had with you and Kitty thus far though, even if that isn't exactly the "point". Anyway take care and have a great day Kevin

Happy Birthday you guys! I hope it's an awesome one!

I agree!

Hey Howie, I think it's just a part of the American teen culture nowadays. I caught the very end of it, younger kids were using the expression when I was my late teens. From a sociological point of view words and expressions are constantly being redefined; this is normal and healthy for a society. The same word can mean vastly different things to a 15 year old, a 35 year old, a 55 year old, and a 75 year old. It also means different things coming from different people. A good example of this is how the word "queer" has changed meanings, and emotive value over the years. It used to be pretty derogatory, but now it's gaining more popular acceptance (Think Queer eye for the Straight Guy )and losing it's negative connotations (at least for many gays themselves). Another example is the "N word". My grandparents used the word as a perfectly harmless way to refer to people of that race, and people in their 80s and 90s of either race (in my area), were fine with the term. People in my parent's generation (people in their 50s and 60s), (not my parents to the best of my knowledge though ) used the word in a derogatory fashion. Nowadays it's completely acceptable for black people to use the term with each other, and if you've got the right style and are close with the people and accepted by them, a white person might even be able to use it inoffensively. I'm something of a prude and very careful not to offend anyone's sensibilities with my language. So I'd never try to use the "N word", I'm not especially comfortable referring to gay people as "queer", and I personally would never dream of referring to something as "gay". And yes to be completely honest with you I too wince just a little when I hear it used in that way. But that doesn't mean I think people who use the words with non-derogatory intent should be reprimanded, particularly if they happen to belong to the group in question. Believe it or not it can actually be destigmatizing for main stream society to hear minorities revitalizing a word or phrase. It isn't really fair (IMO) for you to judge Nick's culture and generation in terms of your own. It should also be pointed out that teens of this generation are considerably more tolerant towards homosexuality than any other generation in American history. If someone in his 30s or 40s were using the phrase as such it could reasonably be inferred that they mean it in the nasty way you're taking it, but someone 13-17 might mean something entirely different. To mangle an old quote I quite like "we are after all one people torn apart by a common language". Anyway I personally meant no offense in any way to anyone, especially you Howie, and I sincerely hope I haven't given any. This is simply my take on things and for all I know I'm completely off base. Have an awesome day and take care everyone, Kevin

Hey Dyan Perphaps no one with an opinion about it has read it yet. There's always only a small fraction of people who actually read a post that reply to it. I actually don't know who you mean, I don't watch tv, and haven't since before that show came on I'm afraid . Though I have heard good things about it. In general I don't think I'd agree with the "either or" line that he seems to be drawing. I'm a complete relativist; nothing is ever completely black and white as far as I'm concerned. What about bisexuals? Metrosexuals? People who identify one way or the other but might have the occasional random attraction? Some straight guys are effiminate and some gay guys are really butch. And that's what makes life so fun and unpredictable anyway Well have an awesome day and take care! Kevin

True enough I suppose, but sometimes I disappear from somewhere for awhile, and when I finally come back it's like I'm a "newbie" all over again, since there's always a ton of new people and things are different.

Hey Viv! First off, thanks for that link! It was a fun little quiz. it says: I guess that's about right, I'd have thought a little gay-er but I guess I am fairly straight for a "gay" person I thought that was so funny! Woo Hoo! I'm so excited to hear that your going to get a shared hosting page! You really deserve it! I love FBTE! which brings me to my next point: Super yay! (now how can I go around using expressions like "super yay" and still only be 53% gay?!?) ahhh so you've written 17 chapters already, but only posted 14! I guess you like to stay ahead of us too , oh well no complaints here each chapter is well worth the wait and I can see how that might make it nicer for you I know I completely agree! There's a ton of people around here I just want to hold until they feel better hmm, don't know what all of that is about, and I'm sure it's none of my business, but Michael and Mike are pretty teriffic! Anyway have an awesome day Viv! Take care and be safe and happy Kevin

OH goodness, I'm so sorry I hope everything works out okay. Best of luck, Green. Take care and warmest wishes, Kevin

Nick! **runs off to put on anti-wrinkle cream** j/k of course, dude Kevin

yeah he was just a cooler, more likeable character (and he sounded much hotter! ) that was my hope at the beginning too, I guess if it coulda felt right I would have still wanted it, but I don't think it could have been natural, and after all the junk that happened to be realistic it's probably better that they didn't. I completely agree! hmm may be a little strong for the way I feel about him, but sympathize with/want the best for definitely. ...yeah sorta, but life's like that too. Now that he's worked out all his issues and finally forgiven Aaron (thus letting go of the destructive anger, hate, and pain), he's free to find someone awesome who'll be good for him. And he can live happily ever after

Yeah good call, I used to watch that when I was a kid. should I watch that?

Yeah! yay! go you I love it when people speak out against drugs and smoking (w/o insulting or judging the people doing it of course) awww **whines** but that's the reason I liked it the best! I like the colours! Night, Night everyone, Kevin

Hey Nick! I have no idea what's going on or what happened, but I have to say I think you're a really awesome, sweet person for caring about it so much, and apologizing! I don't know what happened so I can't say why the person said what they said that offended you, but I can say that while you're definitely right in that they don't know you in real life and can't see how it's affecting you, THEY should also be careful about what they say, and remember that they can't see your reactions. Obviously I'm not saying who was right or wrong, but when someone gets upset 9 times out of 10 it's a least partly BOTH people's fault. So anyway go you for being the big person and apologizing , and I seriously think you're one of the best Christians I know! (and having been raised in private, Christian schools believe me I know ALOT) So what happened to your hard drive? Did it crash or have to be reformatted or something? That sucks I'm sorry. OK now I just feel really bad about not commenting! I meant to but didn't do it at the time sorry. I'm seriously really enjoying it though! I'm really happy to hear the next chapter will be coming out soon too! I have to go to bed now, and I have a bunch of school junk to do this week so no promises set in stone, but I definitely intend to re-read it tomorrow and leave you a comment . Anyway have a safe trip to and from California, and I know it's not really a "happy trip", but I hope you can relish the time you spend with your family, and still take something positive away from it. Have an awesome day, Nick, and take care! Kevin

Hey Ronnie, I love the 3rd one! It's really my kinda colour scheme and style! I kinda hope we go with that one , of course everyone else did an excellent job with their's too

Hey Camy! Glad to hear you're having a pleasant, restful day. Sometimes that is the best for you, even if it isn't "productive". I completely agree! I can barely physically write anymore, I wouldn't be surprised if eventually I'll lose the ability completely. Of course I know what the letters are supposed to look like, so I'm sure I'll always be able to take a stab at representing them on paper myself, but as it is it's already completely unnatural for me to write, and I really have to focus on doing it, it's anything but automatic for me now . LOL in fact I did a whole blog about it: I Can Barely (Physically) Write Anyway have an awesome day and take care! Kevin

I agree! Thanks so much for pointing that out, Kitty! I got a huge kick out of it, but hadn't noticed when I read it. I know I'd be much less likely to watch than I am to read it . Don't get me wrong I'd like to watch it, but I watch absolutely no TV, I have one for DVDs and tapes, but in the last year I've maybe spent an hour watching actual television. I just don't find it very convenient; I can read at random, different times whenever I find the time, but I don't like that I'd have to be somewhere at a certain time every week to catch an episode of something. (and I'm just not tech savvy enough to program my VCR or get one of those TiVo things.) huh? I don't get what he did that was so bad in this chapter. I mean sure that wasn't really a "nice" thing to say to Haily, but while a little dirty it wasn't exactly mean. Besides at least it's par for the course for Jame to say something like that to Haily. Caleb's very graphic remark to the younger girl at the diner was both much worse/insulting/lewd, and directed at a more unsuspecting, defenseless recipient. Exactly! I can't decide if I think she'll figure it out first or if Caleb will, but neither would surprise me much. Yeah I'm wondering what that's about too. I definitely agree with that! Have a great day everyone and be full of care Kevin

Yeah! that isn't how I see Nelson, but that does work for Davey.

Hey Gary,

That's a nifty link, Kitty, thanks! It never ceases to amaze me just how BIG this site is, and all the places on it I still haven't explored!

Hey Joana! Ois Guade zu Deim Geburdstog! (forgive me if that is not quite right ) I hope you have an excellent day, and a teriffic year! Kevin

LOL that definitely had the possibility of offending me. But it didn't lol

Hey Ronnie! It's great to hear from ya; it's even better to hear that things have been going so well with the play! I tend to be cautious and even a tad pessimistic about pursuing things with guys you don't know are gay, BUT Justin from the play really does sound promising! I'd say you should definitely keep in touch with him , and yeah as Michael said, see what happens. I'm really sorry to hear about the trouble with your mom. I hope you guys can patch things up, and that you can find a good Confirmation sponsor. Wishing you all the best, take care, Kevin

LOL alot of those are my favourites too! Oh and go you on number 27! lol as far as 74 goes, I think about the only part of my body with hair that I haven't shaved is my head (oddly I bet some guys have ) Of course I'm fine with having hair in some places like...ya know there's really no need for me to finish this sentence Have an awesome day and take care! Kevin

Hey Kitty!! First off "Kim's a b*tch and you're a doormat" I got a HUGE kick out of that LOL anyway I definitely agree with you, I don't think there is much I can do. Kim just plain wouldn't trust me anymore (and if you think about it in this situation she'd kinda be right ), so I'm sure she'd sway Josh's judgement. And I guess ultimately, even though I think it might be best...I'd probably feel lousy coming between two people....even if it is for their own good....on the other hand I feel...BLAH I think I should just quit thinking about it lol They probably do have to make their own mistakes. LOLOL well from what I hear: cold cream/make up remover ( which I don't know why because he doesn't wear make up....I think she said he liked the way it made his face feel), various moisturizers (goodness knows I can't cast any stones about this one ) lotions (still no stone casting here), bubble bath (geez he's starting to SOUND like me), and scented candles (ah now candles I don't play with **utters butch grunt**) Anyway Kitty, thanks for the advice and have a truly amazing day! Take care (but you probably shouldn't believe everything you see on TV either ) Kevin