AFriendlyFace

I pretty much agree with all of Kit's points. That's definitely true. I think it's ashame too because personally speaking I'd rather have one happy year with someone than two unhappy ones. I can definitely identify with this as well. I've never stayed with anyone nearly that long, but I have to say that every time I've broken up with someone I've felt relieved and really enjoyed being on my own again. I definitely prefer living on my own. I've often said that if I did 'get married' (or in a permanent relationship), I'd really like for us to each have our own room. I really like my own space and privacy. Every now and then I feel like sleeping with someone (in the literal sense), but that's very uncommon and atypical for me; most of the time I greatly prefer sleeping alone. Haha, in a weird sort of way perhaps the ideal 'marriage' would be one in which we maintained two separate homes. Could he just be my next door neighbour? Interesting, and I can see where you're coming from, but I don't agree. I think when something, anything, is important to you it is nice to let the world know. No, it isn't essential, and it definitely shouldn't matter, but it 'feels nice' - at least to me - to say "yes, this is what/who/where I like!" Theoretically 'being married' should be a really great experience for the people involved. I think it's only natural that they would want to share that with others. Also, for me personally I could never hide a significant relationship like that. I'm by no means 'clingy', but I am spontaneously affectionate and I certainly don't shy away from PDA, so presumably people would work out that this person was someone important to me anyway. At that point, if we were that serious, I can't imagine not letting them know just how important he is. I similarly would want to talk about him and refer to him and people are going to ask for some sort of clarification of what he means to me. If I felt more strongly about him than just 'boyfriend' I would certainly want to tell them. Next, while I think it's 'ashame' that I feel this way, one of the worst mistakes a boyfriend could make in terms of making me angry and offending me would be to refuse to acknowledge the nature of our relationship in anything but an explicitly homophobic setting (even an implicitly homophobic setting). I'm not the kind of person who's going to force it into the conversation or even feel compelled for either of us to volunteer the information of our own volition, but if it does come up where he has to clarify our relationship or refer to me in relationship specific ways he'd better not call me his 'roommate' or 'friend' (perhaps next door neighbour though ) Thus, I'm sure I would feel the same way in a very serious relationship if he only referred to me as his 'boyfriend' or 'the guy he's dating' when were very clearly, and explicitly to each other, more than that. I just know it would get under my skin and bother me over time. Lastly, Menzo, I'd like to ask a question. You said that you were open to the possibility of a permanent relationship. What if one did crop up, and you found it happy and satisfying, but the guy eventually (after a reasonable period of time) did want to make it 'official' in some way. Would you be willing to? It seems that way, but people have been saying this about marriage (and religion, and a few other institutions) for awhile and society has consistently indicated that it wants it to remain awhile longer, at least in some form. So I doubt the end is truly near for marriage. Definitely I think the other aspects of 'marriage' (or any permanent relationship) are important, but I certainly think the personal aspect is the most important. So why might I personally not want to get married? Well, Kit's reasons are certainly the most inline with my own feelings (of the ones expressed here). I'm simply very happy and satisfied as a single person. I'm very independent person and I have more than enough close friends and social activities to prevent me from feeling lonely (and indeed I'm not very vulnerable to that emotion anyway, even if I am alone alot). I also just don't feel like I need a partner. I do have social, sexual, and affectional needs for other people, but I'm usually very competent at getting those needs met without entering a very serious/permanent relationship. In the meantime I enjoy my life immensely as a single person doing whatever I want whenever I want. On the other hand it would be nice, in theory at least, to have that permanent person around whom I would share a great deal of trust, affection, and history with and who would also be there for those spontaneous desires for companionship, sex, romance, affection, or whatever else. The 'problem', if you want to call it that, would be that since I don't feel I need a partner (at least at this point in my life), I'm only going to be with one if I really want to, if the guy is almost 'perfect' for me. Since no one is really perfect, and since I don't really feel that need, I'm not sure I'll find someone who's close enough to perfect to make me decide to change my already happy, fulfilled life. That said though, I certainly enjoy more casual dating, and 'fun' relationships so I assume that it wouldn't be very difficult for me to 'fall in love' if the right gay came along and bedazzled me. Once I did commit for the long haul it would be for the long haul and I can only imagine initiating a break up with someone I considered 'permanent' in the case of consistent unhappiness, infidelity, or any type of abuse (emotional, physical, psychological). -Kevin

Happy Birthday, Dude! I hope it's just as awesome as you are -Kevin

This is wonderful news! I marched in my local pride parade last night; I'm really pleased that my brothers and sisters overseas were doing the same thing! I hope it does have a great and strong impact! -Kevin

Awww thanks, Old Bob! To be honest with you I think it's merely a patience and determination to clarify my position as much as possible. What truly amazes me is how so many people in general, and so many members around here specifically, are able to be so clear and concise while maintaining a brevity of length. That gift is certainly not mine; I can usually express myself pretty well, but rarely am I able to do it with a minimum of words. An attempt with the above text: "Thanks, I'm amazed at how effectively some members can communicate while maintaining concision; I can't do that" That is a good point, and while I could be mistaken, it seems like the 4th has taken on added significance since the war here began. Granted we aren't in danger of an imminent invasion at this time (at least in my opinion), but I think it has bolstered patriotism a bit nevertheless. Thanks! I suspect I will get to have such festivities! -Kevin

I tried my hand at 'Go' a few months ago! I didn't really like it though. I think I had a different set of expectations about the game and I didn't care for the rules. I also didn't have much natural talent at it In any case I hadn't recognized your avatar for what it is until you told us!

Hi all, I'm aware that quite a few members actively don't want to get married and since we have so many discussion threads in various places about marriage I thought it would be good to discuss the other side. Thus, I would like to ask those members among us who don't want to get married to briefly explain the reasoning behind their feelings. I'd also like to remind everyone to please be respectful of each other's opinions, don't take things personally, and don't make personal remarks/attacks at other members. Also, while I can't speak for them, it seems that most people who don't want to get married are still more or less in favour of - or at least okay with - other people getting married. Also, I don't mean it to sound like I'm asking them to justify their stance. As long as it works for them it really needs no additional justification. However, I think all major decisions in life (and this is certainly one of them) require justification in one's own head at least; although I get the distinct impression that everyone I have in mind has taken the time to think it out ( ) in any case I don't think people should just make assumptions about these things. Far too often people assume they should get married/enter a serious relationship simply because it's part of the status quo. Similarly, very often people who are gay get the attitude that that means they can't/won't/aren't likely to have a permanent relationship. It's this lack of critical questioning that I think should be examined. Finally, I personally think it's always fun and informative to discuss these types things. Even if I know I don't agree with someone,aren't likely to change my own mind, and not going to try to change theirs, I still enjoy discussing the issue (in a non-heated way) and getting a better handle on other perspectives. Also, remember this is a thread about not wanting to get married. Lastly, the term "married" as I'm using it is open to interpretation. All I really mean is entering a relationship which is presumed to be permanent. You can call it whatever you like, or have it be called something else by other people. However, for some people there may be a difference: they may want to enter a permanent relationship but not officially 'get married'. So I'd love to hear that perspective as well! I thought about starting this thread in the Soapbox because I'm worried that it'll take on a political or heated tone. I'm counting on you guys proving me wrong because I really wasn't interested in discussing politics, only personal feelings and opinions, and I certainly don't want things to get heated! I expect I'll weigh in with my own opinions at some point because I'm an extremely independent person and I can think of a lot of great reasons why one shouldn't get married. However, I can also think of a lot of great reasons why one should. So I guess my position is that I'm open to the idea of marriage, but not desperately wanting or needing it, and I'll be just fine if it doesn't happen. Indeed it would take someone pretty amazing AND a very special set of circumstances for me to marry them. So with that said: Why don't you want to get married?

It's not a holiday I really get into. Actually I don't really get into any holidays that much. I guess Christmas and New Year's a little but I think most of the things holidays are supposed to symbolize -- like say love-Valentine's day, Nature (or Jesus' resurrection if you're Christian)-Easter, Mother/Father's day - appreciation of parents, Thanksgiving - gratitude, or in the case of the 4th of July - freedom, -- are things that people should value and appreciate all year round if they're things they're going to value and appreciate at all. Christmas is so big and commercial that it's hard not to 'notice it', similarly while I also agree that New Year's is more of the same by essentially being about new beginnings and hope (as I interpret it), those do happen to be things that I don't mind having a tangible day for. I mean of course you can celebrate new beginnings anytime, but since it is a NEW beginning - i.e. something new will happen (or old things won't happen) after this point - it makes sense to have a concrete 'starting reference' for it, at least it does in my head. On that point, it's interesting to note that perhaps my favourite holiday in terms of me making a special effort to 'get into the spirit of it' (I do try to live the values of the other holidays that I believe in everyday) is Halloween! This makes sense to me because Halloween isn't about taking note of things you should be noticing and doing all year round anyway; it's about dressing up, performing 'rituals' that aren't daily activities, and generally trying to have a good time. It'll never be such that people will conclude they should always be going to costume parties and giving kids they don't know candy, so I love the idea of specifically doing it once a year. By the same token I like Saint Patrick's day because it's fun to live the green theme for a day. (but really I wish we had a 'blue' holiday as well) Independence and freedom should be valued and expressed year round as should family, gratitude, love, nature, hope, etc. So I don't mind that there are specific days that remind people do value these things - indeed I think that's great - but I don't get particularly involved in them or especially moved by them beyond just taking them as a little reminder...and often being slightly annoyed by the disruption of everyday life. (I really can't stand it when places are closed or close early, or when organizations and things alter their schedules). Now if you want to talk about partying I'm all on board Sure, I'm happy to use the 4th of July as an excuse to get together with friends and have a special meal and maybe a few drinks. But again, I think that ideally that's something which people shouldn't need an excuse or holiday to do anyway. Just my thoughts, but if you are getting into, happy early 4th to you! -Kevin

It seems that he does (I do). I did remember the rope pic, still prefer the water polo though. There's a very cute one in there now with you in the light blue shirt. I'll stop now lest people lynch me for my access to the gallery Tarin, I've always liked yours!

Thanks, guys Cool story, Carl

Adorable! Many people have their ears pinned, and there's nothing wrong with that, but we mustn't bring it up unless they volunteer the information

I shall continue to call you Mike as well if that's cool, my friend. But I am pleased that you're going for something positive that'll make you happy! -Kevin

"Question of Monogamy" by Keo Nozari Frickin awesome song! It's a 'gay' (well really bi I suppose) song too. You can see the video here, if you like.

I do concede that point! It looks like somehow a dying club composed of nothing but gay males managed to reproduce and battle back from the brink of extinction! Not sure how , but so much the better!

Yes, I think that's standard practice for graduations. I wouldn't know personally because I didn't attend mine; they were optional so I just had them send me the diploma. I was going to go to one for a good friend of mine...but by a twist of fate I ended up extremely late and got there just as everyone was walking out. Actually as bad as it sounds to say this I don't mind too much since I missed all the boring part but got to do all the fun celebrating afterward! Congrats again! It's awesome that you're not sad now and just enjoying it! I'm celebrating the end of a very good week at work! -Kevin

LOL, that gave me pause for a bit there. Cool! I seem to remember you saying that before as well. Am I pronouncing it correctly? I usually say it like "I (eye) ish war"

I've always thought your avatar was adorable! And it matches your adorable personality perfectly! I'm sure you're just as cute in real life too What about Luc? I think he might still have his. Also, I'm pretty sure Vancy still has his

LOL, dude, as it happens my ancestry is more German than anything else (with another good bit English, followed by French, then a bit of random other European). So maybe it's a German thing...I hear Hitler was a vegetarian

I have to say I pretty much agree with everyone above. Although I would disagree with James only in his statement about falling in love with your best friend being a phase gay/bi people go through. I don't think it is necessarily a phase that all gay/bi people go through and I also think it happens to straight people. Krista's point about best friends typically being the same gender is an excellent one (thus gay people might be more prone). Also, regarding Ieshwar's question about like and infatuation etc., I purposely left that vague to give people the prerogative to choose and define their answers accordingly. My answers: -Do you think people (straight or gay) are prone to falling in love with their best friend? Or is this just over-represented in the forum. Like everyone pointed out, I think it happens in general because a 'best friend' is someone you're so physically and emotionally close to. So if there is a capacity for attraction I think it makes it very possible indeed. -Do you think GLBT people are more likely to experience this than straight people? A bit more because as Krista pointed out typically one's best friends are the same gender so if you're attracted to same gender people it's more likely. But I don't there's much difference if you compare straight men and women with an opposite sex best friend. -Has it happened to you or someone you know? Obviously people I know. Me...I don't think I've ever really been 'in love' with a best friend before, and actually I don't think I've ever even been seriously infatuated with a close friend before. Typically what happens to me is that I'll have feelings for a regular friend or just friendly acquaintance and over time if nothing develops romantically BUT our friendship grows I usually lose my romantic feelings for that person. I have a lot of close friends, indeed most of my close friends, that I was once infatuated with a bit, but once they got in the "close friend zone" I didn't have those feelings anymore. I don't mean this quite the way this statement will probably express it in terms of connotation, but to me falling in love with a best friend or very close friend is almost unthinkable. I literally wouldn't consider it and my mind doesn't go there at all. That said I might definitely always continue to find the person attractive, even in a sexual way. But love and lust are two different things and I'm physically attracted to lots of people I'd never consider actually dating. I guess the closest I ever came to this experience of 'falling in love with your best friend' was when I was in junior high. Looking back I can clearly see that I was infatuated with my best friend. However, I didn't realize or label those feelings at the time. Also, it followed the general trajectory of my experiences in that we first got to be friends in junior high and that's when I was attracted to him. He remained my best friend through high school and into college, and I honestly don't think by high school I was romantically interested in him at all. But I do remember a 'spark' in junior high. -Why do you think it happens in general? I definitely think Ieshwar said this best and most beautifully! -Overall is it a good thing or a bad thing, and why? I have known a few pairs of best friends who have fallen in love. It is really great and for the most part these seem to be among the happiest and most successful relationships. I think the key goes back to what Krista said, if they both fall in love it's awesome, if only one does it's a nightmare (for both usually). Take care all Kevin

That brings up another point: autonomy is a great pick me up! I enjoyed my childhood a great deal, but I grew even healthier and happier once I moved out and could do my own thing. I did forget that you didn't live alone. It's obviously much easier to parade about nude or near nude if you do

So I've noticed over the years that a huge number of members seem to have fallen in love with their best friend at some point or another. We have countless threads scattered throughout the forum discussing this topic. However, unless I'm mistaken we don't have any threads discussing the general phenomenon (as opposed to all the specific incident threads we have). So no, I'm not in a situation like this right now (don't really think I ever have been, though maybe kinda sorta). I just thought it might be good to finally discuss the topic itself. So a few questions: -Do you think people (straight or gay) are prone to falling in love with their best friend? Or is this just over-represented in the forum. -Do you think GLBT people are more likely to experience this than straight people? -Has it happened to you or someone you know? -Why do you think it happens in general? -Overall is it a good thing or a bad thing, and why? I tend to ramble on at length in such beginning posts as I'm sure most of you have noticed, so I won't kick off this discussion, I'll reflect on this and post my thoughts later. In the meantime I'd love to hear what you guys think! -Kevin

For that I would do a variation on this: One of my best mood-stabilizers, and a great way to generally feel awesome emotionally is to just go to bed, put your problems and stress out of your mind and create a very nice fantasy. Personally, I don't create fantasies about myself (or out of the life of anyone else real). I create lovely little fantasies for people I make up. I guess it's sort of like writing a story actually. I give them a history, usually a conflict of some kind, then I insert wonderful, loving, caring, helpful people and/or amazing luck and great happenstance to make everything end up beautifully. The focus of my fantasies tend to be emotionally based and it's usually some sort of negative emotion the fantasy person has to overcome, or perhaps general negative emotional baggage. Of course this is probably in line with the fact that I prefer these types of songs, movies, books, etc. anyway. I don't know how it would work for you, but it's great for me! My fantasies are usually on-going (I'll pick up where I left off last night on the one tonight), and eventually I just decide to create a new one with new people and situations. They're very different from my stories in that there's a pretty uniform positive progression, they aren't really realistic (well I hope my stories are realistic), and there's no concern about loose ends or strong story resolution, lol. I don't know why but it just feels weird and makes me uncomfortable if I make the fantasies about myself or anyone else real. But yeah, works wonders and I do it all from the comfort of my bed as I snuggle in for the night. I attribute this activity to the fact that I rarely ever have trouble sleeping and usually fall asleep before I want to ('cause I'm having fun!). But yeah, great pick me up, and it promotes restful sleep which is also essential to good physical and emotional health. I cleaned tonight. It did put me in a lovely mood. I felt so productive and I just love how everything looks. As usual it was an 'accidental cleaning'. I don't enjoy it if I plan it, but if I spontaneously start tidying something up I often find that I'll naturally decide to do something else and before I know it the whole place is done! Do you not do this often? Well obviously I don't cook steak dinners particularly often either but to be honest most of the time I'm around my house I'm in a state of undress. Usually just underwear of some kind, or pajama pants, and a tee shirt. But often just one or the other, or neither. I know I shouldn't but I often tend to go out scantily clad as well. Not out out, but like out to my vehicle, to take out the trash, or check the mail or something. Tonight for example when I was done with the cleaning I took out the trash and I was just wearing my boxers and a tee shirt at the time. I do routinely go out in PJ's though, and this time by "out" I do mean that I occasionally go to the nearby grocery store or even a little diner in the neighbourhood. Contrary to intuition I think it's actually the fact that I am into fashion that I do this. Basically I'm pretty used to dressing in ways that are often 'extreme' - or at least very noticeable - so I'm not shy about drawing attention to myself, particularly if it's because I'm dressed oddly. My PJ's are pretty cute I think though, and all my bits are covered. Most of the time people seem to get a kick out of it, so I figure everyone's a winner -Kevin

Thanks Dion! And we welcome your opinion. Of course I might be biased since it's also my opinion but all opinions are welcome!

Hmm, I hadn't really thought of that. I don't think that's the whole story though. While I'm 'proud and out-loud', I don't walk about in rainbow gear most of the time, and while it's very easy for gay people to pick me out, I often 'pass' in straight society without trying - I'd personally find it a bit objectionable to my sense of my since of self if I tried to pass - they just obviously assumed I was straight (well most people are) based on the questions and comments made. So I think they were being themselves. On the other hand though I'm a firm believe in people feeding off each other's moods and energies so perhaps they sensed my boredom and behaved differently. Thanks for giving me something interesting to ponder, Benji. I'll mercifully spare you all having to read my further ponderings on the issue, but I'll continue to reflect on it privately. A good point, Tim. It would indeed be unfortunate and deeply upsetting if after she took the bun from the oven she decided to keep it at her own table! Wow! This is like the exact opposite of the way I think about the terms. I don't particularly like being called a 'homosexual' at all and to me it has negative connotations whereas gay is affirming. I guess there's a huge range of personal connotations and variables at play here! I enjoy my sexuality, and not just my homosexuality, but my 'sexualness' in general. It's a great source of physical and emotional fulfillment I think. I rarely find myself sexually frustrated because I tend to express my sexual feelings and nature fairly often. Granted I've been in the position of really wanting sex and being preoccupied before, but my solution was fairly straightforward: I had sex. I suppose it's often more complicated than that though. Once again I find myself enjoying this topic Take care all and have a great day! Kevin

That all sounds really lovely, Krista!

Great topic! I love exotic food! Growing up my mom would take me to many different types of restaurants and I've tried quite a few different cuisines. We used to eat out quite a lot and rarely ate basic "American" food.