motivating reviewers

[GaryK]

Solicit recommendations for the best overall reviews. Conduct a series of polls to winnow the reviews down to the top three. Then let non-authors only vote on the overall winner. Award the winner something nice like an e-gift certificate to Amazon. I'll gladly provide the funds. Rinse and repeat every three months.

 

Greed can be a good motivator.

[BeaStKid]

Solicit recommendations for the best overall reviews. Conduct a series of polls to winnow the reviews down to the top three. Then let non-authors only vote on the overall winner. Award the winner something nice like an e-gift certificate to Amazon. I'll gladly provide the funds. Rinse and repeat every three months.

 

Greed can be a good motivator.

Now you're talking...

 

This is a great option Gary, and thanks for even suggesting it. It shows how committed to GA you are and how much GA means to you.

 

A special Beastie hug for you...

[GaryK]

A special Beastie hug for you...

 

I have no idea what that smiley represents but it always makes me feel good.

[BeaStKid]

 

I have no idea what that smiley represents but it always makes me feel good.

and it made me smile...

[corvus]

But now I'm trying harder (ahem, stalking corvus), since I know how discouraging it can be when you don't get any kind of response.

 

Do continuing the stalking, haha...

 

I also have a problem writing a review that gets into too much detail because I've had to deal with spoilers in chapters I've not yet read.

 

I got myself into trouble at one point because I wrote glowing reviews but didn't quite understand the rating system. On a scale of 1-10, 5 was average. Anything above that was considered praise. Well, it seems none of the authors agreed with my logic. So now if a story/poem is well written I'll give it a 9 unless the grammar is atrocious in which case it'll get a 7-8.

 

What I (sometimes, if I don't forget) do is write *SPOILERS* to indicate there'll be spoilers in the review. You see that sort of thing quite often on imdb. It's hard to write a heartfelt review without referencing specific events.

 

The whole star system reminds me of the supposed grade inflation at my uni. "C" is supposed to be average, but it seems that the lowest anybody ever gets is a "B-." Of course, quite often the course is so damned difficult that just taking it merits *something*. That could be the same sort of justification for "star inflation." Either that, or reviewers don't want to seem mean. I'm inclined to believe it's more the latter than the former. I think the lowest rating I've ever given is... 4 stars?

 

1. A good review with comments and lots of stars?

2. A review with limited comments and lots of stars?

3. Decent feedback in the forums?

 

I value words more than stars. A lot more. A written review lets me know that I've actually touched someone, even if what's written is short. The star rating system is so much more impersonal, and reminds me of those stupid "hot-or-not" sites. Harhar.

 

I agree, but even a review in the E-Fiction is good. It feels great when someone searches for the top 10 reviewed stories and one of yours comes up...

 

Haha... I'm at number 10 -- I just need one more review to be number 9.

 

Solicit recommendations for the best overall reviews. Conduct a series of polls to winnow the reviews down to the top three. Then let non-authors only vote on the overall winner. Award the winner something nice like an e-gift certificate to Amazon. I'll gladly provide the funds. Rinse and repeat every three months.

 

Greed can be a good motivator.

 

I just laughed the first time I read it, but then I thought, That could be a good idea. It doesn't have to be monetary, even. It could be one of the GA awards. "Best Overall Reviewer" or something. Seriously, it would be cool.

[GaryK]

I just laughed the first time I read it, but then I thought, That could be a good idea. It doesn't have to be monetary, even. It could be one of the GA awards. "Best Overall Reviewer" or something. Seriously, it would be cool.

I like your idea for an award better than mine.

 

Maybe the winning member could get a special logo instead of just being labeled a "member".

[Tiff]

Solicit recommendations for the best overall reviews. Conduct a series of polls to winnow the reviews down to the top three. Then let non-authors only vote on the overall winner. Award the winner something nice like an e-gift certificate to Amazon. I'll gladly provide the funds. Rinse and repeat every three months.

 

Greed can be a good motivator.

That's so nice of you Gary! But imagine how much that'd add up to!!!

 

In my opinion, readers will always be lazy. We readers love free stuff, so reading free stuff on the internet is fun, and then when we're done, we're out. Only a few die hards leave reviews. We just have to be grateful for them and accept that some people either don't want to review or afraid to for whatever reasons, as Duncan suggested previously.

 

But I do like the idea of rewarding reviewers, in some way.

 

 

Do continuing the stalking, haha...

Oh, I will.

 

This is how you know you're reached stardom levels; when you have achieved a stalker!

[corvus]

We're still in the process of discussing the idea, but I'll definitely let you know what happens! Perhaps we can also make some sort of announcement of the program once we've ironed everything out.

 

-Kevin

 

Yo, Kevin! *points at thread* We have new ideas that you can jostle the writer support team with.

 

 

I like your idea for an award better than mine.

 

Maybe the winning member could get a special logo instead of just being labeled a "member".

 

Honestly I wouldn't like that label because I would feel guilty if I didn't keep up the reviews. But something like that... maybe a hall of fame? Wait, we already have that with the top 10 reviewer thing. Hmm.

[GaryK]

But I do like the idea of rewarding reviewers, in some way.

In a way we reviewers do get some kind of recognition. I'm in the top 10 reviewers list in eFiction.

 

This is how you know you're reached stardom levels; when you have achieved a stalker!

Hey, I was stalking corvus before you were! How about we share him? It seems like there's enough of him to share. Ah, to be so brilliant and talented at such a young age. I'll bet he's a hottie, too!

 

What's that you say? This is about reviewing! Well, that was a review!!!

 

ADDED: Hey corvus! No fair. I started my post before you did it just took me longer to save it!

Edited March 25, 2008 by GaryInMiami

[Tiff]

In a way we reviewers do get some kind of recognition. I'm in the top 10 reviewers list in eFiction.

 

 

Hey, I was stalking corvus before you were! How about we share him? It seems like there's enough of him to share. Ah, to be so brilliant and talented at such a young age. I'll bet he's a hottie, too!

 

What's that you say? This is about reviewing! Well, that was a review!!!

 

ADDED: Hey corvus! No fair. I started my post before you did it just took me longer to save it!

I had no idea we had a top ten reviewers list. Jeez, I'm bad at this eFiction thing. Although, I do want to start posting there, but eh, I'm lazy!

 

How long ago did you start stalking Corvus?? Before Mike and Winston came out? That's when I started.

 

In either event, yes, we can share him. We can double-team him!

There is plenty of his talent, brilliance, and creativity, to go around! I'm sure he's a hottie, too, but in this case, you might have the advantage, you know, being a dude and all.

[GaryK]

I had no idea we had a top ten reviewers list. Jeez, I'm bad at this eFiction thing. Although, I do want to start posting there, but eh, I'm lazy!

 

How long ago did you start stalking Corvus?? Before Mike and Winston came out? That's when I started.

 

In either event, yes, we can share him. We can double-team him!

There is plenty of his talent, brilliance, and creativity, to go around! I'm sure he's a hottie, too, but in this case, you might have the advantage, you know, being a dude and all.

eFiction is sort of wacky. But it's better than nothing.

 

Mike & Winston is what started me on the path to stalking corvus. So I guess I should ask if you mind sharing him with me. I doubt my being a dude would give me any sort of advantage. Not that I'd turn him down if he were in the mood. But I'm old enough to be his father! Something Tim never lets me forget and Tim's older than corvus. And for that matter when it comes to relationships I prefer older men. Speaking of which, where is TalonRider? Talk about a hottie!!!

[Tiff]

eFiction is sort of wacky. But it's better than nothing.

 

Mike & Winston is what started me on the path to stalking corvus. So I guess I should ask if you mind sharing him with me. I doubt my being a dude would give me any sort of advantage. Not that I'd turn him down if he were in the mood. But I'm old enough to be his father! Something Tim never lets me forget and Tim's older than corvus. And for that matter when it comes to relationships I prefer older men. Speaking of which, where is TalonRider? Talk about a hottie!!!

Oh yes, I recall you mentioning something about liking older men.

 

Yeah, Corvus is a baby. I feel ancient compared to him, at my granny age of 22....or 21 and thirteen months.

 

TalonRider is a hottie? Have you seen pics? LOL. This forum thread is getting crazy....crazy funny!

[GaryK]

TalonRider is a hottie? Have you seen pics? LOL. This forum thread is getting crazy....crazy funny!

Hey, at least we're still discussing reviews even if it's about guys and not stories!

 

There's a photo of Jan in his profile.

 

I live in a very culturally diverse city so what I consider a hottie in terms of looks and personality will vary widely. What I consider a hottie in terms of one's character is immutable.

 

Segue to the other type of review...

 

The more I think about it the less sure I am about it being a good idea to go too far in terms of motivating reviewers. If someone's personality is such that they're inclined to offer something in exchange for reading a good story then perhaps as authors that should be sufficient. If someone is somehow coerced into writing a review perhaps it won't be an honest or helpful effort and thus its value will be diminished.

 

So ultimately do we really want to somehow coerce readers into writing reviews? Or do we want to take what's offered and be thankful that it was offered in the spirit of honesty of and appreciation for the author's hard work?

[Tiff]

Hey, at least we're still discussing reviews even if it's about guys and not stories!

 

There's a photo of Jan in his profile.

 

I live in a very culturally diverse city so what I consider a hottie in terms of looks and personality will vary widely. What I consider a hottie in terms of one's character is immutable.

 

Segue to the other type of review...

 

The more I think about it the less sure I am about it being a good idea to go too far in terms of motivating reviewers. If someone's personality is such that they're inclined to offer something in exchange for reading a good story then perhaps as authors that should be sufficient. If someone is somehow coerced into writing a review perhaps it won't be an honest or helpful effort and thus its value will be diminished.

 

So ultimately do we really want to somehow coerce readers into writing reviews? Or do we want to take what's offered and be thankful that it was offered in the spirit of honesty of and appreciation for the author's hard work?

 

Hotness comes in all kinds of varieties and are based on numerous factors- not just physical features. I am in complete agreement with you there.

 

Anyway, back to the real issue: it's ok to motivate reviewers, such as writing "Please review, etc" because maybe it will give some lazy readers a nice kick in the ass. But that's as far as it should go. If you force it on them, it will have the reverse effect. Personally, I think it's important to be grateful for whatever it is that we do get, because if they seriously took time out of their day to write, then they must be genuine and really liked the story. I don't get a lot of responses, at least anymore, but whatever I do get, I greatly appreciate, because I know they really meant it. That's all I need. Rarely in my postings do I solicit reviews. It's ok if some authors do, within reason, but it's just not my style.

[S.L. Lewis]

I had a stalker...

Wait, wrong thread...

Anyways, it's always nice to know that people are reading your stories. I don't care about my review count, though it is nice to see it move. I care about my read count. I love to see it grow. It makes me smile really big. I can only assume they've read at least one of the chatpers. I can hope, can't I?

Though, I think I have some one stalking my flash story series. *checks stats* *finds self on BKs fav list* Yay. *continues to check* *finds flash stories on BKs fav list* Yay for me. I'm on someones fav list, both story and author. That's a step up for me.

[corvus]

Yeah. So now I'm officially hot.

 

Anyway, back to the real issue: it's ok to motivate reviewers, such as writing "Please review, etc" because maybe it will give some lazy readers a nice kick in the ass. But that's as far as it should go. If you force it on them, it will have the reverse effect. Personally, I think it's important to be grateful for whatever it is that we do get, because if they seriously took time out of their day to write, then they must be genuine and really liked the story. I don't get a lot of responses, at least anymore, but whatever I do get, I greatly appreciate, because I know they really meant it. That's all I need. Rarely in my postings do I solicit reviews. It's ok if some authors do, within reason, but it's just not my style.

 

No, begging for reviews isn't good. I've no problems with a one or two line 'Please review, feedback appreciated' sort of thing, or even (haha) a clever limerick. But withholding chapters, really beeeegging for reviews, etc. turns me off as a reader.

 

Someday the reviews will come flowing in again, Tiff...! See here. And I'll say here that the Storm/Skyler scene at the end of chapter 29 was very powerful; I liked it very much.

 

Anyways, it's always nice to know that people are reading your stories. I don't care about my review count, though it is nice to see it move. I care about my read count. I love to see it grow. It makes me smile really big. I can only assume they've read at least one of the chatpers. I can hope, can't I?

 

I hope I'm not raining on your parade, but seeing an increased read count without a proportional increased review count can make me feel *worse*, because it implies that a lot of people read the story without thinking it good/strong enough to give feedback. It's a leap of faith to assume that the read count reflects actual reading.

 

I derive the bulk of my satisfaction from having written something I'm happy with. This depends on my own judgment and the opinion of one or two very close friends. Getting reviews from stranger has nothing to do with it. The idea of motivating reviewers is, to me, more of a moral thing. Mostly I think it's good behavior and I think other people should do it too. And I think it encourages people to read more widely because you leave a sort of record of what you've read.

[S.L. Lewis]

I hope I'm not raining on your parade, but seeing an increased read count without a proportional increased review count can make me feel *worse*, because it implies that a lot of people read the story without thinking it good/strong enough to give feedback. It's a leap of faith to assume that the read count reflects actual reading.

 

You're not. I see reviews as something not guarenteed, especially with stories that deal with the gay side of relationships. As it's been said before, a lot of readers are still in the closet or hiding.

If I get a review, then great, wow and thank you, but I don't need them. I had a stalker for to long when I first started to post my originals, which was way back in 2000. I was still in high school, still discovering my style but I was good. I took everything down and hid because of that one person ragging on my stories and the way I wrote.

Reviews are all well and good, but I don't depend on them. I watch my read count because it shows that yes, people are coming back and yes I have new readers. Some day they will review, when they feel comfortable or when a chapter makes them want to review.

Maybe I'm jaded because of my experience, but that's the way I feel about it and I hope that I didn't tick or insult anyone reading this.

[BeaStKid]

I had a stalker...

Wait, wrong thread...

Anyways, it's always nice to know that people are reading your stories. I don't care about my review count, though it is nice to see it move. I care about my read count. I love to see it grow. It makes me smile really big. I can only assume they've read at least one of the chatpers. I can hope, can't I?

Though, I think I have some one stalking my flash story series. *checks stats* *finds self on BKs fav list* Yay. *continues to check* *finds flash stories on BKs fav list* Yay for me. I'm on someones fav list, both story and author. That's a step up for me.

 

That's one thing I always do. List the author/story as my favourite if I like the work. There are numerous advantages of that. Firstly, if someone likes my work, he/she'll want to know what kind of stories I prefer. Also, I know, I'd read stories recommended by an author I like much readily than finding them on my own.

 

Secondly, the said author/story appears on the list of Most favourite, increasing their chances of being read.

 

Thirdly and the most important point. It gives me a chance to get updates. An update to my favourite story is immediately e-mailed to me and so is a new story from my favourite author.

 

BeaStKid

[Duncan Ryder]

You're not. I see reviews as something not guarenteed, especially with stories that deal with the gay side of relationships. As it's been said before, a lot of readers are still in the closet or hiding.

If I get a review, then great, wow and thank you, but I don't need them. I had a stalker for to long when I first started to post my originals, which was way back in 2000. I was still in high school, still discovering my style but I was good. I took everything down and hid because of that one person ragging on my stories and the way I wrote.

Reviews are all well and good, but I don't depend on them. I watch my read count because it shows that yes, people are coming back and yes I have new readers. Some day they will review, when they feel comfortable or when a chapter makes them want to review.

Maybe I'm jaded because of my experience, but that's the way I feel about it and I hope that I didn't tick or insult anyone reading this.

 

This may sound weird but...I'm not sure i"m so much interested in reviews per se as I am in just knowing my stories connect. I've been writing a long time compared to some here... and I make a very good living as a writer in real life, so in terms of straight craftsmanship, I know I can write. But writing my first gay themed story is as big a deal for me as just being here is for some of the people reading here, just beginning to explore and understand their sexuality. It requires a big jump. It just does. It's not what I normally write at all. I guess you could say it's my closet writing,

 

So.... I guess what's really important to me is more about connecting... when I get emails from guys telling me the story is helping them sort through an issue, or giving them courage, or whatever, it just means the world to me, and so I keep on writing this story that is so difficult for me on a personal level...

 

Which is why I'm going to suggest that maybe we could think about offering authors the opportunity to add an "email the author privately" feature that guests could use without being a member or signing in. This would let members and non members alike connect directly to an author about the story privately. Another site I'm hosted on uses this (you don't have to be a member of the forums) and I hear regularly from people that way, and have had some great discussions about writing in general, as well as the story itself.

 

I know personally I tend to email privately rather than post publicly. I'm just a very private person, in general, so I relate to others who are as well.

[GaryK]

If an author has a good spam filter then simply posting their e-mail address at the end of each story/chapter/poem and requesting feedback would suffice.

 

The spambots will find that address and the spambot's owner will abuse the heck out of it. A known good e-mail address is worth between US$5-10 per sale.

 

Otherwise it would be better to make this a feature of the website. Obfuscate the e-mail address via JavaScript or an on-site contact form where the e-mail address is kept on the server-side and thus not visible to the spambots.

Edited March 25, 2008 by GaryInMiami

[BeaStKid]

If an author has a good spam filter then simply posting their e-mail address at the end of each story/chapter/poem and requesting feedback would suffice.

 

The spambots will find that address and the spambot's owner will abuse the heck out of it. A known good e-mail address is worth between US$5-10 per sale.

 

Otherwise it would be better to make this a feature of the website. Obfuscate the e-mail address via JavaScript or an on-site contact form where the e-mail address is kept on the server-side and thus not visible to the spambots.

One of the sites that I host my stories at uses the online contact forms... Nifty feature...

[Michael H]

I agree with Duncan. I'm less interested in getting royalty checks than I am being read. I'm not discounting the value of reviews, especially those posted to online catalogues like Amz. These are valuable for making sales but the most rewarding for me are the private emails I get from all over the world. That, is truly heart warming.

 

I rarely review publicly. If I do a review I don't rate the book with stars or numbers. Also I always send a copy of my review to the author before I post it publicly.

I don't do spoilers and I never pan a fellow writer's work. I will, however, communicate privately with him or her.

 

Now to me a review is quite a different thing than feedback. I'll review a completed work if asked. Feedback is something I limit to WIP. I confess many who ask for feedback really want stroking. That's all well and fine, but if I feel a piece needs work I'll say so and I'll be specific. Saying I loved a piece does nothing to illuminate the mind.

Michael

[BeaStKid]

I agree with Duncan. I'm less interested in getting royalty checks than I am being read. I'm not discounting the value of reviews, especially those posted to online catalogues like Amz. These are valuable for making sales but the most rewarding for me are the private emails I get from all over the world. That, is truly heart warming.

 

I rarely review publicly. If I do a review I don't rate the book with stars or numbers. Also I always send a copy of my review to the author before I post it publicly.

I don't do spoilers and I never pan a fellow writer's work. I will, however, communicate privately with him or her.

 

Now to me a review is quite a different thing than feedback. I'll review a completed work if asked. Feedback is something I limit to WIP. I confess many who ask for feedback really want stroking. That's all well and fine, but if I feel a piece needs work I'll say so and I'll be specific. Saying I loved a piece does nothing to illuminate the mind.

Michael

I agree with that. And most writers (at least me..) welcome that sort of 'feedback'. I know that my writing has a lot of room for improvement, so I welcome all sorts of advice on how to make it better.

 

[Michael H]

You know, a few years back I read a comment by a gay man who was very active in reviewing gay books and even on selected emails posted in gay forums. He said that he would rather read a well written scathing review than a poorly written story. At the time I was saddened by such cynicism. It's been my experience that many poorly written stories have quite good plots / themes. It seems what happens is the writers lack experience in writing and the contacts for beta readers or a good editor who won't rob them. Add to that, writers invest so much of themselves in their stories that it becomes painful to accept guidance, no matter how gently it is given. IMO it is this last aspect that restrains those who want to help. After all, beta readers and reviewers don't get anything for their effort but a thank you--sometimes not even that!

 

When I read for someone and it becomes obvious there are systemic problems with logical sentence structure and plot continuity I urge the writer submit to a rigorous beta read with those (6 to 8 readers) willing to take on the task. Most importantly, the writer needs to know first and foremost that he /she needs help or the project will likely be a disaster.

 

By the time I had heard the term "beta reader" I had finished my second book. It was dear Lori Lake who told me what it meant. Both my first book and my second are doing well but I'm convinced that they would be better by half had they been beta read before seeing print.

 

Michael

[BeaStKid]

Luckily for me...I had GA...

 

And thanks to GA, I can say that my writing has improved a lot over the time. One can even see the difference over the course of reading Alpha and Omega. One reader even commented that I get better with each chapter... and I have to admit, I agree.

 

Each round of edit/beta-read gives me something to mull over...to improve my writing...to eradicate those most-common mistakes, and helps me evolve as a writer.

 

A big thanks to them...

 

BeaStKid