motivating reviewers

[Zephyrus]

I must admit that I do like to read stories with a couple of nice sexual scenes in them, but for the most part I like to read a bit of angst and more character development than anything else. Most of the time a writer tends to have to be careful not to write too much of the type of sex situation in a scene that has been done too many times before, and be a bit naughty about it.

I find it interesting to create two characters who work well together, but I also find it hard to get that steady balance at the moment with the characters I am currently working on, but I've no doubt I'll get there eventually.

The majority of gay stories I've read have been quality.

[Tiger]

Same here... I used to read porn, but now I totally detest it. I like a nice storyline/plot and that is the main reason I read a story. Or write one...

 

Most of these stories do have some erotic scenes in them, though.

I do like including erotic scenes, but I like my characters to have depth, especially the main characters. Some of the secondary are much more mysterious and rightfully so.

[NickolasJames8]

I do like including erotic scenes, but I like my characters to have depth, especially the main characters. Some of the secondary are much more mysterious and rightfully so.

 

 

All of my characters have depth too, but they also all live secret double lives as interstate prostitues in the continental United States.

[corvus]

One of the classes I'm taking reminded me of this thread. We talked a lot about the Prisoner's Dilemma and self-enforcement of agreements... the example given was of two farmers who, each year, have a swamp to clear. They can do it together, or one can do it while the other leaches. Apparently, reciprocity happens a lot of the time, even though the one-time Prisoner Dilemmas often have a (0,0) equilibrium point.

 

Anyway, I figured you can't really extend the scenario to writers/reviewers because writers depend on readers more than readers depend on writers. That's to say, writers *can't* withhold future chapters if they don't get reviews (which is the only leverage possible), because that's not how writers work. Harhar. They can't not write. It'd make them just as miserable as not getting reviews. So writers have no power in this situation.

 

I would like to quote Prospero's Speech, from the end of Shakespeare's "The Tempest." Here, Prospero -- who is the stand-in for Shakespeare himself, representing the creator, author, etc. -- has lost all his power, and is directly appealing the audience to clap ("With the help of your good hands") and cheer ("Gentle breath of yours").

 

And now my charms are all o'erthrown,

And what strength I have's mine own;

Which is most faint; now t'is true,

I must here be released by you,

 

Or sent to Napels. Let me not,

Since I have my dukedom got

And pardoned the deceiver, dwell

In this bar island by your spell;

 

But release me from my bands

With the help of your good hands.

Gentle breath of yours my sails

Must fill, or else my project fails,

 

Which was to please. Now I want

Spirits to enforce, art to enchant;

And my ending is despair,

Unless I be relieved by prayer,

 

Which pierces so that it assaults

Mercy itself and frees all faults.

As you from your crimes would pardon'd be,

Let your indulgence set me free.

 

Got to love the Bard.

[GaryK]

How do you motivate readers to provide feedback when most of them are leaches? They're only here to read the stories and don't give a damn about the authors.

 

As of this moment there are approximately 15 members on the site and 170 visitors.

 

What incentive do the visitors have to leave a review?

[Tiff]

How do you motivate readers to provide feedback when most of them are leaches? They're only here to read the stories and don't give a damn about the authors.

 

As of this moment there are approximately 15 members on the site and 170 visitors.

 

What incentive do the visitors have to leave a review?

I don't know what kind of incentive we could possibly provide. It's not like we can just give out prizes to those who do leave reviews. I know it does suck when people just choose to read stories and don't really care enough to provide feedback. But we just have to accept it and, I don't know, be happy with what we do get?

 

Like I said earlier in this thread, most of the people who visit the site are readers and don't know how much work goes into writing and how important feedback is, unless they're in our shoes. Sometimes even authors don't leave reviews because there are too many stories out there, or whatever reason. I know I was guilty of that in the past; not providing enough feedback.

 

But now I'm trying harder (ahem, stalking corvus), since I know how discouraging it can be when you don't get any kind of response.

 

This thread kind of gave me a kick in the butt, but not so sure about others.

[Duncan Ryder]

Actually, I'm now feeling horribly guilty and starting to make an effort to comment myself, because I realize I almost never leave reviews.

 

Mostly it's because I'm not that comfortable engaging in a public forum.

[GaryK]

Actually, I'm now feeling horribly guilty and starting to make an effort to comment myself, because I realize I almost never leave reviews.

 

Mostly it's because I'm not that comfortable engaging in a public forum.

I never post anything that could be considered a spoiler in a review. So my reviews are usually short and generic. I tend to let the stars indicate what I thought of the story/poem.

 

If it's darned good I give it a 9. If it's darned good but needs editing or beta-reading I give it an 8. If it's good I give it a 7. Good and in need of editing or beta-reading 6. Anything else gets 7. Since nobody is perfect I never give a 10.

[BeaStKid]

I never post anything that could be considered a spoiler in a review. So my reviews are usually short and generic. I tend to let the stars indicate what I thought of the story/poem.

 

If it's darned good I give it a 9. If it's darned good but needs editing or beta-reading I give it an 8. If it's good I give it a 7. Good and in need of editing or beta-reading 6. Anything else gets 7. Since nobody is perfect I never give a 10.

Same here Gary... the highest I have ever given is is 9...

 

As for your question about visitors...

 

are the guests allowed to make posts in the discussion forums?

[GaryK]

Same here Gary... the highest I have ever given is is 9...

 

As for your question about visitors...

 

are the guests allowed to make posts in the discussion forums?

I logged out and tried to post and got a notice that stated I had to be registered and logged-in.

[Duncan Ryder]

How do you motivate readers to provide feedback when most of them are leaches? They're only here to read the stories and don't give a damn about the authors.

 

As of this moment there are approximately 15 members on the site and 170 visitors.

 

What incentive do the visitors have to leave a review?

 

You know, I think we have to give readers a bit of a break. For one thing, I don't think they have in general any idea how much response means to writers. And for another, I think anonymity and safety are huge issues for some of our readers. Some of them are just reaching out, exploring the gay part of themselves for the very first time, and a lot of them are really scared. Well....I'm kind of guessing that for this web site, but I KNOW that from some of the emails I get from Nifty readers. I've had emails from young guys so scared it would break your heart (and I encourage them to come here, to the teen forum... don't know if any have though). Some of them are really young, and some of the older ones really closeted, and in other ways just really....scared.

 

So I'm prepared to cut a LOT of slack....

[GaryK]

I understand and sympathize with people who are confused about their sexuality, are terrified about being gay, and even worse, about being outed.

 

However with all due respect, reviews can be posted anonymously.

[Duncan Ryder]

I understand and sympathize with people who are confused about their sexuality, are terrified about being gay, and even worse, about being outed.

 

However with all due respect, reviews can be posted anonymously.

 

 

I think it's a need not just for literal anonymity but psychological anonymity. Just emailing someone, even anonymously, can be a huge step they just aren't ready for.

[GaryK]

I think it's a need not just for literal anonymity but psychological anonymity. Just emailing someone, even anonymously, can be a huge step they just aren't ready for.

That's a good point on which I think we can both agree.

[corvus]

I think it's a need not just for literal anonymity but psychological anonymity. Just emailing someone, even anonymously, can be a huge step they just aren't ready for.

 

That's an interesting point, Duncan. I myself can't remember ever having felt that way -- ie, that sort of fear -- but it's certainly possible. I'll have to write about it some day to explore the concept.

 

Anyway, another thing I wondered about was whether readers are hesitant to review because they're too concerned about not being mean. There's been quite a few times when I didn't written a review because I don't want to be held accountable for making an author cry. When I'm in a generous mood, I try to phrase things euphemistically. So the comment I'm dying to write ("Your main character is nothing more than a Ken doll with bad dialog") becomes something... gentler ("So-and-so is very interesting, but maybe you could try developing him *just* a bit more"). When I'm not in a generous mood, I click back and reach for the cointreau.

 

I know I'm not alone here -- earlier, Lugh said basically what I said. The question is: should readers be silent and polite, or vocal and ... less sensitive? I'm honestly ambivalent. I don't think I'm personally easily affected by negative anonymous reviews, but I know that I can react badly to criticism from people I know. On the other hand, not saying anything could be a disservice in itself. What do you think? What should the threshold be?

 

I know there's a thread earlier about this point, but, I think it fits here, too.

[GaryK]

Therein lies the problem, corvus.

 

If the author is sensitive about an honest critique you're going to hurt his/her feelings, maybe make them mad, and perhaps inspire a hateful response.

 

On the other hand there are authors who make it clear they welcome all feedback, positive or negative, so long as it's civil.

 

Maybe it would help if, as you do, authors would make it clear they do or don't welcome negative feedback in public.

 

I also have a problem writing a review that gets into too much detail because I've had to deal with spoilers in chapters I've not yet read.

 

I got myself into trouble at one point because I wrote glowing reviews but didn't quite understand the rating system. On a scale of 1-10, 5 was average. Anything above that was considered praise. Well, it seems none of the authors agreed with my logic. So now if a story/poem is well written I'll give it a 9 unless the grammar is atrocious in which case it'll get a 7-8.

 

Would it help if we eliminated the comments and just rated the reviews? Anything else could be handled via PM, IM or e-mail.

[BeaStKid]

I logged out and tried to post and got a notice that stated I had to be registered and logged-in.

hmmm... maybe if we allowed some reviews to be posted by guests in the Discussion forums.....

 

but the Spam problem....Damn!

[GaryK]

hmmm... maybe if we allowed some reviews to be posted by guests in the Discussion forums.....

 

but the Spam problem....Damn!

I learned long ago that permitting guests to post in forums results in the forums becoming a spam magnet that requires a full-time moderator to keep it under control. It's just not worth it.

[BeaStKid]

I learned long ago that permitting guests to post in forums results in the forums becoming a spam magnet that requires a full-time moderator to keep it under control. It's just not worth it.

yeah, that is why I dumped the idea...

[GaryK]

Ultimately what is more important to authors who post in eFiction?

 

1. A good review with lots of stars?

2. Decent feedback in the forums?

[BeaStKid]

Ultimately what is more important to authors who post in eFiction?

 

1. A good review with lots of stars?

2. Decent feedback in the forums?

you forgot a written review in E-Fiction.

 

Personally, i think I'd prefer a written review. As you have already seen, different people interpret the star rating differently...So...

[GaryK]

you forgot a written review in E-Fiction.

 

Personally, i think I'd prefer a written review. As you have already seen, different people interpret the star rating differently...So...

#1 was intended to include a good written review. I suppose there should be three choices though...

 

1. A good review with comments and lots of stars?

2. A review with limited comments and lots of stars?

3. Decent feedback in the forums?

[BeaStKid]

#1 was intended to include a good written review. I suppose there should be three choices though...

 

1. A good review with comments and lots of stars?

2. A review with limited comments and lots of stars?

3. Decent feedback in the forums?

I prefer number 1 and if possible, number 3 as well...

 

*greedy Beast *

[Tiff]

I prefer number 1 and if possible, number 3 as well...

 

*greedy Beast *

Greedy, greedy indeed Beastie.

 

But I agree with you. Reviews with an explanatory comment as well as some stars is great, but I'd still also want a nice discussion in a forum thread. But we can't have it all, lol! I mean, we have enough trouble getting people to provide feedback, I doubt many would comment/leave a review AND post in the forum. It becomes a lot. Sometimes I think it's one or the other, if any at all.

[BeaStKid]

Greedy, greedy indeed Beastie.

 

But I agree with you. Reviews with an explanatory comment as well as some stars is great, but I'd still also want a nice discussion in a forum thread. But we can't have it all, lol! I mean, we have enough trouble getting people to provide feedback, I doubt many would comment/leave a review AND post in the forum. It becomes a lot. Sometimes I think it's one or the other, if any at all.

 

I agree, but even a review in the E-Fiction is good. It feels great when someone searches for the top 10 reviewed stories and one of yours comes up...