motivating reviewers

[Tiff]

If a story is awful, then I stop halfway instead of forcing myself through. I'm therefore also relieved of the obligation to review, because it's not right to review something you've only half read.

That's brilliant! I will have to keep that in mind. Sometimes I'm suckered through the entire thing, only to realize it's bad at the very end. Shame on me. :wacko:

 

But now I'm a bit better. I can usually glance at a few paragraphs and see whether or not it's for me.

[NickolasJames8]

One of the most important things a writer can do to encourage feedback, in my opinion, is to thank each and every review you get. Even if it's a flame, thank them for giving you the opportunity to improve, because chances are, if someone's giving you a harsh review, there's a reason. You might be surprised how much of a difference author participation in the process makes.

[FrenchCanadian]

One of the most important things a writer can do to encourage feedback, in my opinion, is to thank each and every review you get. Even if it's a flame, thank them for giving you the opportunity to improve, because chances are, if someone's giving you a harsh review, there's a reason. You might be surprised how much of a difference author participation in the process makes.

 

I totally agree, I share that idea,, that's why I make it a point to answer every single reviews, feedback question,, on the forum, via PMs, or in the eFiction review.

 

The way I see it,, if you thank them for reviewing, well, they'll be more inclined to do it again.

[NickolasJames8]

Reviewers can also be useful beta readers, if they're willing to help you out. I've found that the people who give me the most feedback, both good and bad, are willing to beta read chapters for me. That's a great way to know in advance how you're work is probably going to be received, and at the same time, it gets your readers involved with what you're doing.

[Duncan Ryder]

E-fiction not treated seperatly from the stories on Gay Authors. It is a part of Gay Authors' stories, but the authors there are not (yet) hosted. It is often thought of as a field left fallow: sometimes weeds grow and sometimes flowers. The flowers are cultivated, and often transplanted into hosting status. The weeds are left alone and hopefully they will wither and die off, leaving fertile soil behind.

 

E-fiction is the place people can post the poetry and / or prose they write. It is a sort of virtual library (and there are many stories you will find in e-fiction that you will not find on Nifty) unlike Nifty, which is an archive.

 

Nifty (IMHO) is geared toward gay porn with forrays into the field of homo-erotic and/or fetish fiction.

 

E-fiction is geared more toward quality writing (or at least that is the goal). There is some porn. There is some homo-erotic fiction. But there are many other types of writings there as well.

 

I'm sure others will say other things.. but that will at least start you off.

 

 

I feel that I have to say something positive about Nifty. I agree totally that there's a TON of crap there, and a TON of porn and weird stuff in archival nooks where I wouldn't dare browse let alone read... but the gems are there too. And there is incredible generosity from both readers and other writers. I first read a number of my favourite authors (including some hosted here) on Nifty.

 

My experience has been that the readers are soooooooo grateful for stories with ambition. When I started writing EW, I just wanted it to have an audience, I knew little about gay writing as a genre (really...), I hadn't done much web reading (again, really) and I was very nervous about putting it out there. But it was the only site I knew about. So I put it there. The response from readers started literally within half an hour, and some of it is just fascinating.

 

The other thing was... some web writers keep an eye on nifty and reach out. I couldn't believe the writers, hosted here and on a couple of other sites, who contacted me when they started reading the story on Nifty and were incredibly supportive. It made all the difference to me in terms of keeping me writing. (What can I say? I have issues....)

 

As for reviews and feedback.... I think it would be great if you can do something to encourage people who are reading the stories to post. I just don't believe that 30% of readers review.... there's a serious skew in that poll, and I suspect it is because the people who participate in the poll are not representative of readers

(I'm an advertising/pr writer so I have some experience with interpreting polls etc)... my guess is that people who answer the poll are significantly more likely to review, and most people who read don't answer the poll.) For example, EW has had I think over 9,000 hits last time I looked... if 30% are reviewing, it should have had something approaching 3000 reviews. It's had exactly...20. The thread on it has had fewer than 100 comments, a bunch of which are my responses, mostly from the same handful of wonderful wonderful readers. (for comparison, I've had almost 2,000 emails from Nifty readers...)

 

Please don't think I'm complaining. I'm not. One thing I LOVE about this site is that it counts hits so you really know people are reading it and for me the ONLY thing I care about is having an audience, writing a story that touches people.

 

But ya know, writing is a lonely business... and feedback sure is nice.... esp. for totally insecure people like me who constantly wonder if they should be writing..... Sometimes I think readers just don't know how much it means...

 

That's something I'd think about as a strategy. Making it clear to readers that writers really really REALLY like to hear from them.....

 

Duncan.

[Benji]

I just don't believe that 30% of readers review.... there's a serious skew in that poll, and I suspect it is because the people who participate in the poll are not representative of readers

(I'm an advertising/pr writer so I have some experience with interpreting polls etc)... my guess is that people who answer the poll are significantly more likely to review, and most people who read don't answer the poll.) For example, EW has had I think over 9,000 hits last time I looked... if 30% are reviewing, it should have had something approaching 3000 reviews. It's had exactly...20. The thread on it has had fewer than 100 comments, a bunch of which are my responses, mostly from the same handful of wonderful wonderful readers. (for comparison, I've had almost 2,000 emails from Nifty readers...)

 

 

.....I'm going to guess that Nifty has been out longer and has a larger "audiance than GA. It was after all the 1st site I ever saw on gay writing.

[Tiff]

I feel that I have to say something positive about Nifty. I agree totally that there's a TON of crap there, and a TON of porn and weird stuff in archival nooks where I wouldn't dare browse let alone read... but the gems are there too. And there is incredible generosity from both readers and other writers. I first read a number of my favourite authors (including some hosted here) on Nifty.

 

My experience has been that the readers are soooooooo grateful for stories with ambition. When I started writing EW, I just wanted it to have an audience, I knew little about gay writing as a genre (really...), I hadn't done much web reading (again, really) and I was very nervous about putting it out there. But it was the only site I knew about. So I put it there. The response from readers started literally within half an hour, and some of it is just fascinating.

 

The other thing was... some web writers keep an eye on nifty and reach out. I couldn't believe the writers, hosted here and on a couple of other sites, who contacted me when they started reading the story on Nifty and were incredibly supportive. It made all the difference to me in terms of keeping me writing. (What can I say? I have issues....)

 

But ya know, writing is a lonely business... and feedback sure is nice.... esp. for totally insecure people like me who constantly wonder if they should be writing..... Sometimes I think readers just don't know how much it means...

 

Duncan.

 

NIfty is a great place and lots of writers get started there. It is one of the most popular gay sites, and so it's natural for us newcomers to go there to post our writing. We initially didn't know where else to go. Usually, when I read good stories and email the author, most of them had no clue about GA at all.

Since Nifty is high profile, you get a lot more feedback.

 

Writing is indeed a lonely business. You do it because you have something to say, trying to make a point, doing something therpeutic, or you just plain like to write! Either way, a little line here and there is nice, especially if you have no clue whether anyone likes what you're writing or thinks it's crap.

Btw, Duncan, your story is amazing. When I read the first chapter on Nifty a long time ago, I was like...hmmm, where is this going, and kept reading. I admit, I am not the greatest at giving reviews, since there is so much to read, I forget or get preoccupied. My bad. But you're great. And it's ok to be insecure and in need of some reassurance. Everyone needs that, even if they don't always admit it.

 

Readers would never understand how important feedback is, because they haven't been in the writer's position. Only when they start writing would they understand. Now I'm trying to get more involved and leave some type of review- whether on Efiction, or in the author's forum. This thread gave me a nice kick in the butt to get started.

[corvus]

I feel that I have to say something positive about Nifty. I agree totally that there's a TON of crap there, and a TON of porn and weird stuff in archival nooks where I wouldn't dare browse let alone read... but the gems are there too. And there is incredible generosity from both readers and other writers. I first read a number of my favourite authors (including some hosted here) on Nifty.

...

As for reviews and feedback.... I think it would be great if you can do something to encourage people who are reading the stories to post. I just don't believe that 30% of readers review.... there's a serious skew in that poll, and I suspect it is because the people who participate in the poll are not representative of readers

...

But ya know, writing is a lonely business... and feedback sure is nice.... esp. for totally insecure people like me who constantly wonder if they should be writing..... Sometimes I think readers just don't know how much it means...

 

The main reasons I'm not posting on Nifty are that it is kind of... sketchy... and, because I would like to publish on paper some day, I'm uncertain about Nifty's copyright policy. From threads on this forum, it sounds quite bad. Still, I've read some amazing things on that site. (And not just amazingly hot porn. ) There's one author I particularly like, called Ruthless, who has an amazing voice, and uses sex and violence most effectively to explore human themes.

 

And ya, that 30% is definitely misleading. However, the read count is also misleading. Just because people have visited a story doesn't mean that they read it. Particularly with a multi-chapter story, people hit the first page each time they revisit the story, but they probably don't reread everything. But I hope I haven't discouraged you! Anyway, I *can* say that without hypocritical reservations because I've reviewed your story , and I will again once you put on that final chapter and I can take in all that emotion in a glorious rush. And after I've finished my problem sets... :wacko:

 

 

Writing is indeed a lonely business. You do it because you have something to say, trying to make a point, doing something therpeutic, or you just plain like to write! Either way, a little line here and there is nice, especially if you have no clue whether anyone likes what you're writing or thinks it's crap.

Btw, Duncan, your story is amazing. When I read the first chapter on Nifty a long time ago, I was like...hmmm, where is this going, and kept reading. I admit, I am not the greatest at giving reviews, since there is so much to read, I forget or get preoccupied. My bad. But you're great. And it's ok to be insecure and in need of some reassurance. Everyone needs that, even if they don't always admit it.

 

Readers would never understand how important feedback is, because they haven't been in the writer's position. Only when they start writing would they understand. Now I'm trying to get more involved and leave some type of review- whether on Efiction, or in the author's forum. This thread gave me a nice kick in the butt to get started.

 

Oh yeah. Lonely business indeed. Tennessee Williams: "writing is not a happy profession." Maria Callas: "My business is creation. Therefore I am alone." But that's when you get genius -- which comes from genio, spirit. The lonely passion of Skellig chroniclers. Okay, maybe I'm going slightly over the top here. But I'm glad this thread has given you that nice kickoff. It's writers who most understand the importance of review, reviews from fellow writers that can be of the most help, and writers themselves who benefit most from actually writing reviews.

 

*strokes long white beard and walks away...*

[NickolasJames8]

The main reasons I'm not posting on Nifty are that it is kind of... sketchy... and, because I would like to publish on paper some day, I'm uncertain about Nifty's copyright policy. From threads on this forum, it sounds quite bad.

 

 

I'm careful about what stories I post on Nifty. I asked them to take something down, and had no trouble getting them to do it, but I think that's because I'm considered a prolific author over there. The same thing that happens at Nifty can happen at other sites, too. Take RCWP for instance...the web mistress hasn't been heard from since October, and none of us who've posted there have a way to get our work updated or taken down.

It's a good idea to post something at Nifty, though, because your reader base will multiply over and over and over and over and over and over almost instantly. Just be sure to link back to the place where the rest of your work is posted, and give the readers an email addy at the top or bottom of the page.

[Tiff]

Take RCWP for instance...the web mistress hasn't been heard from since October, and none of us who've posted there have a way to get our work updated or taken down.

It's a good idea to post something at Nifty, though, because your reader base will multiply over and over and over and over and over and over almost instantly. Just be sure to link back to the place where the rest of your work is posted, and give the readers an email addy at the top or bottom of the page.

The woman who handles RCWP, didn't she go through a divorce or something? Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong woman, but for some reason, I think I read that somewhere on her page. Well, something happened to her which caused her to not update/take work down.

 

Posting on Nifty is good. The exposure rate and possibilities is amazing. However, even if you add a link to GA at the beginning and end of your stories on the NIfty post, readers just don't know understand to check it out. I've had readers in the past month asking for more chapters and they don't even consider coming to GA for the updates. Maybe next time I will capitalize everything and write: go here- with accompanying arrows.

[Ieshwar]

The response from Nifty have never been good for me. Was it because they were all one-shot stories?

 

I wonder if it's because of the stories or the readers? I convince myself that it's the latter.

 

Ieshwar

[Tiff]

The response from Nifty have never been good for me. Was it because they were all one-shot stories?

 

I wonder if it's because of the stories or the readers? I convince myself that it's the latter.

 

Ieshwar

One shot stories usually get less feedback. Or it's dragged out, depending on when the readers get around to checking Nifty and so forth.

 

Sometimes I like to write one-shot stories and I did post it on Nifty once. Not a lot of responses, but some. I think series generate more responses, just because it's constant and keeps getting in the reader's faces. And a reader, who I've been emailing with for over a year, pointed something out to me. Readers like short stories, but they don't form an emotional attachment to the characters or the story and therefore don't continually email about them.

 

But I still blame it on the readers. They're lazy. I read a lot of stories and try to give reviews as much as possible, but sometimes there are too many things to read and by the time I move on to the next story- I forget all about dropping the author a line.

[AFriendlyFace]

Ah, so we have a Writer Support Team! (100 posts already, and I haven't noticed.) What is it, exactly? And do tell me when I can start to sexify my sig with a reviewer pledge

The writer support team is in charge of evaluating authors for advancement of status (Promising, shared, hosted), as well as striving to help the author increase in visibility, reader base, and yes feedback. We also help provide editors and beta readers.

 

We're still in the process of discussing the idea, but I'll definitely let you know what happens! Perhaps we can also make some sort of announcement of the program once we've ironed everything out.

 

Does anyone have any additional thoughts beyond what we discussed on how this ought to work?

 

If a story is awful, then I stop halfway instead of forcing myself through. I'm therefore also relieved of the obligation to review, because it's not right to review something you've only half read.

I agree! That's a good idea!

 

One of the most important things a writer can do to encourage feedback, in my opinion, is to thank each and every review you get. Even if it's a flame, thank them for giving you the opportunity to improve, because chances are, if someone's giving you a harsh review, there's a reason. You might be surprised how much of a difference author participation in the process makes.

Definitely a great idea!

 

That's something I'd think about as a strategy. Making it clear to readers that writers really really REALLY like to hear from them.....

I think one of the best ways is to let them know that you really really REALLY want to hear from them! Often it's the authors who speak up and say "Come and discuss my story" "PM me what you thought" "Please leave a review" that get the most feedback.

 

Take care all and have an awesome day!

-Kevin

[Jack Scribe]

It's a good idea to post something at Nifty, though, because your reader base will multiply over and over and over and over and over and over almost instantly. Just be sure to link back to the place where the rest of your work is posted, and give the readers an email addy at the top or bottom of the page.

 

Nifty is where I first read gay-themed stories and became encouraged to try my hand at fiction. As Duncan commented, you must wade through a lot of crap to find gems and I became a master of reading the first two sentences of a story to determine if I wanted to spend time with it. For a new author, you can expect huge initial feedback because of reader volume...if your writing shows promise. And, as Nick pointed out in another post, a new author can find eagar beta readers/editors to help you.

 

When I did find a series or short story that was interesting, I would send the author a note. With a few, I sought out advice about a story (eventually,Splash in the Pool) idea I had. In all cases, the authors were very generous with their time and thoughts. The story that's in its present form was well-received and I was on my way.

 

I still post my stories on Nifty out of loyalty...but much later (the just-finished Desert Fantasies on GA is currently in Chapter 11 on Nifty). However, I always put a link to Gay Authors at the end of a chapter and my addy.

 

Is everyone familiar with the Best of Nifty site that Awesome Dude maintains? http://www.best-of-nifty.org/. This is a treasure trove of superior stories.

 

Graeme's estimation of around/under 10% feedback participation from readers is, IMHO, optimistic. My uneducated talley suggests maybe its closer to 3 - 4%. The exception seems to be CJ's readers. His story forums have taken a life of their own. Whatever the case, all of us who 'scribe' away appreciate the readers thoughts and reviews. I always take a moment to send a note to an author...whether it be praise or friendly suggestions.

 

Jack

[Lugh]

The response from Nifty have never been good for me. Was it because they were all one-shot stories?

I wonder if it's because of the stories or the readers? I convince myself that it's the latter.

 

I don't know Ieshwar, but all I've ever gotten from Nifty is the mis-catagorizing of my story and FLAMES from readers. Add to that their "we hold the electronic copyright forever and no, you can not revoke it with out giving us something else in it's place as we are an Archive" policy turns me off completely.

[Tiff]

I don't know Ieshwar, but all I've ever gotten from Nifty is the mis-catagorizing of my story and FLAMES from readers. Add to that their "we hold the electronic copyright forever and no, you can not revoke it with out giving us something else in it's place as we are an Archive" policy turns me off completely.

Nifty produces a lot more flamer emails than other sites. The quality of writing is different on Nifty compared to over here, and sometimes the readers of Nifty expect something and cannot appreciate other types of writing. In that sense, I can understand how you'd be turned off by Nifty. I never understand why people write nasty emails in the first place. If something is that bad...move on and call it a day instead of insulting the author. That really bothers me, but I try to let it go without letting it affect me or my writing.

[Graeme]

I have, from time to time, considered posting something at Nifty, but I haven't done so yet. Their policy of not removing something unless you submit something of equal value is one of the biggest drawbacks from my point of view. While I don't expect it to happen, I may want to publish (in print) some of my works in the future, and that means I can't have my works on a site which doesn't allow me to do that (essentially, once I post something at Nifty, I don't own that copy anymore). One other, personal, reason is that Nifty is the Nifty Erotic Story Archive, and I don't write erotica. I know there are other works there that aren't erotica, but I'm not sure I want my stuff on an Erotic Story Archive.

[AFriendlyFace]

One other, personal, reason is that Nifty is the Nifty Erotic Story Archive, and I don't write erotica. I know there are other works there that aren't erotica, but I'm not sure I want my stuff on an Erotic Story Archive.

That's a good point! In that regard perhaps the people that send flame emails are justified in so doing if the story isn't erotic. If I opened a bag of lettuce and found spinach instead I would be justified in complaining, even if the spinach were tastier and better for me than the lettuce.

 

 

...I am mostly just kidding here of course

 

-Kevin

[Duncan Ryder]

That's a good point! In that regard perhaps the people that send flame emails are justified in so doing if the story isn't erotic. If I opened a bag of lettuce and found spinach instead I would be justified in complaining, even if the spinach were tastier and better for me than the lettuce.

 

 

...I am mostly just kidding here of course

 

-Kevin

 

 

I haven't decided if I write erotica or not... though I do know I don't write porn... but I definitely use physical relationships as a metaphor... But I've never had a flame but I keep hoping... I'd just love to tear a strip of some idiot.... I could REALLY use some metaphors then!!!!!

[Tiger]

I haven't decided if I write erotica or not... though I do know I don't write porn... but I definitely use physical relationships as a metaphor... But I've never had a flame but I keep hoping... I'd just love to tear a strip of some idiot.... I could REALLY use some metaphors then!!!!!

I don't write any story that is all about sex. That is not my style. I have been known to include a "love-making" scene within a story though. That is much more tasteful. There was one exception where I wrote something a bit more hardcore, but that is the exception and not the rule. Might I write something like that in the future? I don't know.

[Demetz]

I would like to suggest another thing... usually when I'm browsing e-fiction, i'll look specifically for stories without any reviews... a feature to just sort by unreviewed stories would facilitate this much more easily and provide an easy way for people who like doing reviews to do reviews for people who don't yet have any for a particular story.

 

I be a little tipsy tonight... went out with a friend earlier.... if this does not make sense... I think I will remember it in the morning.

 

Thanks all.

[Demetz]

I don't write any story that is all about sex. That is not my style. I have been known to include a "love-making" scene within a story though. That is much more tasteful. There was one exception where I wrote something a bit more hardcore, but that is the exception and not the rule. Might I write something like that in the future? I don't know.

 

Hey now don't go dissing on us porn writers...

 

okay so maybe what I wrote wasn't quite porn.... does it count as porn if they don't cum?

[Tiger]

Hey now don't go dissing on us porn writers...

 

okay so maybe what I wrote wasn't quite porn.... does it count as porn if they don't cum?

What you write isn't sleazy. If it were, I would call it porn.

[Demetz]

 

 

*kisses Tiger*

[BeaStKid]

I don't write any story that is all about sex. That is not my style. I have been known to include a "love-making" scene within a story though. That is much more tasteful. There was one exception where I wrote something a bit more hardcore, but that is the exception and not the rule. Might I write something like that in the future? I don't know.

Same here... I used to read porn, but now I totally detest it. I like a nice storyline/plot and that is the main reason I read a story. Or write one...

 

Most of these stories do have some erotic scenes in them, though.