Know yourself

[old bob]

The Ancient Greek aphorism "Know yourself" (Greek: γνῶθι σεαυτόν or gnothi seauton) was inscribed in the forecourt of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi.The saying "Know thyself" may refer by extension to the ideal of understanding human behavior, morals, and thought, because ultimately to understand oneself is to understand other humans as well. But it may also refer to a less ambitious ideal, such as knowing one's own habits, morals, temperament, ability to control anger, and other aspects of human behavior that we struggle with on a daily basis. For me, to know more about myself was always a permanent need. Among the several methods to reach this goal, you can choose two different ways: to try it alone, or to confront your feelings with another soul, mostly a psychoanalyst. I tested both ways (it was a long story!) and, to my great astonishment, the results were practically the same.

The meaning of this poll: to check if anybody else made the same experiences.

[rknapp]

It's important to know yourself, and I would choose to do so scientifically to an extent. Other it's not that important to me because I no longer have any burdens on my shoulders beyond school.

[AFriendlyFace]

My personal opinion is that there is no knowledge more relevant and important than self-knowledge. To me it's one of the fundamental experiences of the human condition and I would find it more pitiable if someone had no self-knowledge than if they were illiterate for example (or otherwise lacking in knowledge of something that most of today's Western society knows).

 

For me the quest for self-knowledge has always been paramount.

 

1) So I selected "yes" it's important

 

2) for the best way, the poll actually didn't offer any of my preferred methods. I think the truly best, not to mention easiest, way is through good old-fashioned introspection, and carefully exploring your feelings and motivation. I think a very good tool for this is to write your thoughts out in a journal/blog and/or to discuss them carefully with a trusted friend. These three ways are by far the ones I employ the most and I'm very pleased with the results. It's also useful to engage in other creative pursuits like writing, painting, poetry, music, etc. and also probably very useful to engage in other hobbies that aren't traditionally associated with such things (I think sports could be very helpful for example).

 

I know that for my part if I'm going to engage in pure introspection without discussing it with someone or writing about it, my favourite way is to take a long walk by myself, a close second is to take a hot bath, and a third is, oddly enough, to do dishes. I'm very introspective when I wash dishes for some reason and I find it very relaxing.

 

For the sake of this poll I actually selected all three options. The second option, Jung's test etc. is the one I've engaged in the most and I do find personality tests and other such things to be very fascinating and often very insightful. Though, for the most part, they've only ever told me things I pretty knew already. Nevertheless, I enjoy them immensely and they do stimulate my thinking about the subjects so I still find them useful.

 

I also selected counseling because while I've never been to a therapist myself and while I don't feel like I do have anything major or chronic for which I might need counseling, I still think that with the right therapist it would be very useful and enjoyable. I'm also a firm believer that counseling is very good for people.

 

Finally, I wasn't going to select the non-scientific approaches like astrology because I'm fairly skeptical about such things. In the end I did elect to select it however because I think the fact that one may or may not participate is illuminating about oneself in the first place. For example I almost always read my horoscope if I'm reading a magazine or paper that has it in it (I don't actively seek it out though), I've also done tarot cards with friends, and last month I tried to go to a psychic/palm reader on a whim (I was passing a place that did it), but unfortunately it was closed.

 

Anyway, point is I think those things are fun, and I'm just about open-minded enough to believe that there's a very small chance there's something to them. For the most part though I don't believe them at all, and would never actually base any decisions or actions on such things. What I think my willingness to participate casually says about myself, however, is that I'm a very open-minded, spiritual person, who enjoys novelty. So in that way I think they do tell me something about myself.

 

3) I said I know a lot about all those techniques. It's a relative thing of course, but I'm pretty well-informed about such things as a result of my degree in psychology as well as my general interest and active pursuit of knowledge about in the field.

 

4) I am interested in knowing more. I'm interested in knowing more about almost anything that interests me even a little, and this interests me very much, so I doubt I'll ever know all I want to know about it.

 

5) for the last question I said that I was open to all techniques for learning more, because I think all could be very useful!

 

 

 

Great poll/thread, Old Bob! Thanks

 

 

Take care all and have an awesome day,

Kevin

[Krista]

It is important to know yourself. It takes time to do that really as people change, but around my age I find that I'm distinctly different from where I was not even three years ago. So, it sometimes takes a lot of life experience to know limitations, true reactions, and such. I would be more interested in participating and being tested through one of the listed not because I don't have a clue about myself, I'm pretty confident I can get by with what I know about myself.. lol.. it would just be interesting for the most part and helpful as well.

[JamesSavik]

Knowing yourself is the easy part.

 

Actually liking yourself takes some work.

[old bob]

.....Finally, I wasn't going to select the non-scientific approaches like astrology because I'm fairly skeptical about such things. In the end I did elect to select it however because I think the fact that one may or may not participate is illuminating about oneself in the first place. Anyway, point is I think those things are fun, and I'm just about open-minded enough to believe that there's a very small chance there's something to them. For the most part though I don't believe them at all.

Hi Kevin, thanks for your detailed comments about astrology. I'm not so doubtful a you. As did C.G Jung in his approach, it seems to me that we project a lot of oneself when we construct an horoscope or when we practice the Y-King. I always learn more about myself through the doing itself than from the results. In my own professional practice, I found that with the scientific methods (for instance like TA or CBT) it was often very difficult to get the personality as a whole and I had sometimes to call the non scientific approach to help for establish a right diagnosis.

4) I am interested in knowing more. I'm interested in knowing more about almost anything that interests me even a little, and this interests me very much, so I doubt I'll ever know all I want to know about it.

Do you know exactly why you want to know more about yourself ? Sometimes, if you are going deep enough, are you sure to accept what you find there ? How to deal with ones own shadow could be an hard problem !

5) for the last question I said that I was open to all techniques for learning more, because I think all could be very useful!

You have two possible approaches : learning by reading or listening, and learning by doing. IMO,only the second brings you far enough. Really ready to invest enough time and energy for that ? Frankly, I doubt !

BTW, my own comment is here just to go on with the discussion .

Take care yourself

Old Bob

[old bob]

Knowing yourself is the easy part.

Actually liking yourself takes some work.

Before "liking", you have to "accept" yourself for what you are.

I takes not only some work, it takes time, but it's sometimes easier when you mustn't do it alone.

[AFriendlyFace]

Do you know exactly why you want to know more about yourself ? Sometimes, if you are going deep enough, are you sure to accept what you find there ? How to deal with ones own shadow could be an hard problem !

I have often heard this concern expressed by others! Frequently it is the reason people offer for not exploring themselves and occasionally it's been a warning from other against my doing so.

 

Personally, I've never been of this opinion at all; if there is a snake in my bed I want to know about it and find it, I don't want to curl up on one side and hope it leaves me alone.

 

Sometimes one's demons cannot be exercised, but nevertheless I think it's better to know they are there and act accordingly than to live in supposed ignorance. Speaking for myself I've often explored the dark corners of my mind and soul, but the darkness doesn't scare me; there has always been enough light to offset it. Besides, I've never thought myself perfect, or even lacking significant flaws. I know what my flaws are and I love myself in spite of them.

[Tiger]

I remember a while back we had a link to a test for personality types in another thread. I think that test had a good impact, because it tells people more about themselves. As far as personal demons, I have a few mostly because of stuff that has happened to me in my life. Someday I'm going to add some stuff from my life to a story, but that's not going to be easy, and I'm not ready. I do know myself well, and that's more than can be said of many others in the world.

[old bob]

I remember a while back we had a link to a test for personality types in another thread.

For those who are interested, see :

Your personal type in Jung Typology Test.

On the same site, you can find an "marriage test", but I do not suppose that a lot of us are interested

[NickolasJames8]

I kinda wonder if anyone truly knows themselves, or if life is a constant journey where we rediscover ourselves several times over and over again. There are times when I think I have things figured out...what I want, where I want to be in my life, what I think about certain situations in the world, and my position as a relevant person. Then, I wake up one day and realize that my perspective was blurred or even a little flawed, and I'm forced to re-examine myself and my outlook on life.

[Procyon]

Okay that test is very interesting; I am in the middle of it right now, but it's very very hard to answer some of the questions.... I'll give a few examples:

 

'You like to keep a check on how things are progressing' -- well, yes, if I'm cooking I like to check when the spuds are done, or else they'll turn into pulp and be disgusting. But with some other things, I like to do my thing and then leave it behind and not ponder on it. It completely depends on what it is, some things are interesting to keep track of, others I want to forget ASAP.

 

'You are more inclined to experiment than to follow familiar approaches' -- again, depends on what it is. If it's cooking, I do experiment, but not if it's something very difficult that I've only tried doing a few times. Although okay, maybe I experiment then too, a little... but yeah it's a matter of circumstances and degree of familiarity.

 

'You take pleasure in putting things in order' -- haha... hahaha. Well, yes. But my house is a complete mess, and that is partly because I *want* things to be in complete order when I am done cleaning -- that fact means that I never have time to do it all, it takes too long, so I can only do the basics anyway. So yes, I like putting things in order, but I rarely get around to doing it, and often i find other things more urgent.

 

So, those are just a few examples of how difficult it is to answer that stuff. But it's a good test because it's making me reflect on how I function -- some, or maybe a lot of it I already knew, but I think it's still good to think about it once more.

 

As for knowing oneself in general, I'm not afraid of what I'll find (and I don't terribly dislike anything I've found.) But teh good thing is that one can actually work on changing some of one's less agreeable traits, such as impatience, jealousy, etc., if one is aware of them and feels that it'd be a good idea for oneself and those around one. And when one succeeds with something like that, in little steps, it's a great feeling, at least it makes me happier when I've got less negative feelings. Of course, sometimes it doesn't work at all... :wacko:

[AFriendlyFace]

I kinda wonder if anyone truly knows themselves, or if life is a constant journey where we rediscover ourselves several times over and over again. There are times when I think I have things figured out...what I want, where I want to be in my life, what I think about certain situations in the world, and my position as a relevant person. Then, I wake up one day and realize that my perspective was blurred or even a little flawed, and I'm forced to re-examine myself and my outlook on life.

I think you've got a good point, Nick! I know my opinion and position on things have changed considerably over time as well.

 

'You take pleasure in putting things in order' -- haha... hahaha. Well, yes. But my house is a complete mess, and that is partly because I *want* things to be in complete order when I am done cleaning -- that fact means that I never have time to do it all, it takes too long, so I can only do the basics anyway. So yes, I like putting things in order, but I rarely get around to doing it, and often i find other things more urgent.

I have that problem too! I like everything to be perfect and if I don't have the time or energy to get it right I often don't bother at all.

 

 

I took that test again, and as with last time (I just looked up my results from a few months ago in the What Personality Are You? thread) I scored as an:

 

ENFP

 

* moderately expressed extravert

* distinctively expressed intuitive personality

* distinctively expressed feeling personality

* slightly expressed perceiving personality

 

I'd say the results are definitely true for the last three things, but stuff is sort of weird with the extrovert/introvert thing. For example I wouldn't describe myself as a "moderately expressed extrovert" at all, I would describe myself as a distinctively expressed extrovert AND a moderately/distinctively expressed introvert.

 

I've always found it interesting that these two things appear as polar opposites on a scale. It might be logical and intuitive to think of them that way, but for me they aren't at all, instead they would be two separate scales.

 

I'm a highly social, outgoing person. I do enjoy being the center of attention, I speak loudly, love having a wide circle of friends, quickly throw myself into the social mix whenever I go somewhere new, and enjoy parties.

 

However, I also 'need time alone to recharge' and a more significant amount of it than the average person I would say. I also prefer small groups of two or three to large groups (I enjoy both but smaller get-togethers are preferable), I frequently seek out quiet and solitude and occasionally purposely cancel plans and/or avoid people to spend time alone doing solitary things.

 

I would also be hard pressed to decide whether or not I prefer to speak or listen in general. So anyway, personally I've always thought I score quite high on both extrovert and introvert. Most people assume me to be an extrovert because I am when I'm with them; they don't see my quiet, solitary side but it's just as important, natural, and enjoyable to me.

[Tiger]

ENFJ

 

* slightly expressed extravert

* distinctively expressed intuitive personality

* slightly expressed feeling personality

* slightly expressed judging personality

That was my result from it. If I remember correctly, there was another ENFJ. That seems like it was so long ago. Anyway, that test did teach me a lot about myself and my personality.

[old bob]

I think you've got a good point, Nick! I know my opinion and position on things have changed considerably over time as well. I took that test again, and as with last time (I just looked up my results from a few months ago scored as an: ENFP

* moderately expressed extravert

* distinctively expressed intuitive personality

* distinctively expressed feeling personality

* slightly expressed perceiving personality

I'd say the results are definitely true for the last three things, but stuff is sort of weird with the extrovert/introvert thing. I've always found it interesting that these two things appear as polar opposites on a scale. It might be logical and intuitive to think of them that way, but for me they aren't at all, instead they would be two separate scales.

Hey Kevin,

It

[Demetz]

I think the best way to know yourself is through regular self-refelection. Technically, you already know all there is to know about yourself, its just a matter of being aware of it that you need to work on. Asking questions of yourself about yourself, then seeking the answers is the best way to go about this. Often it will lead to more questions. Just follow the line. A psychologist you see once a week for one hour can not help you to know yourself... they don't know anything near what you do about you. What they can do is listen to the information that you feel is significant to provide them and based on that, suggest possibilities you were not aware of. Here's the thing though - thats the easy part. Provide a list of symptoms and a bit of analysis later you've got a diagnosist, provided the doctor is sure of the symptoms. The hard part is what to do with that information.

 

Example: So, you were molested as a child and you think that may have lead to your hypersexual behavior. You relate that information to a doctor and sure enough, molestation is known to result in hypersexuality once one reaches adulthood. Now what? The actual therapy part of taking knowledge of the cause and translating it into behavioral change is much more difficult whether you have a doctor or not.

[old bob]

Hey Demetz,

You are right, that's all the problem with the behavioral psychology. These psy don't go deep enough, It's like asking for your watch to to tell you which time is it . A real Jung's psychoanalysis, with the detailed study of your dreams and your comments to them take much more time (perhaps several years at one cession per week) but give you the keys to your unconscious, and open the gate to your shadows. Unfortunately, the psy who are capable to bring you so far are very rare and very expensive . Only these who followed such a cure can tell what they experimented and the profits they found from it.

As I said before, it's a long way and not everybody is ready for it. But believe me, it's worthwhile.

Old bob

[AFriendlyFace]

I think the best way to know yourself is through regular self-refelection. Technically, you already know all there is to know about yourself, its just a matter of being aware of it that you need to work on. Asking questions of yourself about yourself, then seeking the answers is the best way to go about this. Often it will lead to more questions. Just follow the line.

I certainly agree with all of this.

 

A psychologist you see once a week for one hour can not help you to know yourself... they don't know anything near what you do about you. What they can do is listen to the information that you feel is significant to provide them and based on that, suggest possibilities you were not aware of. Here's the thing though - thats the easy part.

And disagree with this.

 

That aspect of therapy may not be something that would be particularly beneficial to you, because if I've gotten a proper read on you based on our interaction, your posts, and your blog, I'd say you're already the sort of person that will be reflecting and analyzing such things. You're already going to be asking yourself those questions and you probably have a natural tendency to do these things. Personally, I feel that in that regard we are very similar.

 

However, we mustn't forget that such directed, thoughtful introspection does not come naturally to everyone. Some people are woefully ill-equipped to even know where to start when it comes to sorting out their feelings. They don't have the 'skills' nor the 'natural inclination' to do these things. In that regard someone patient who can sit there and help keep them on track, and prod them along can be extremely useful.

 

Furthermore, I don't know if this has ever been your experience, but speaking for myself the majority of 'major revelations' and 'insights' that I've had about myself and my life have come as a result of evaluating the situation myself. Nevertheless, I've had more than a few experiences in which it was through conversation with a friend or other trusted person that I suddenly came to an important 'epiphany' about something. Without talking it over with someone else and having them point out 'the obvious' that just wasn't clicking for me, or perhaps something more random, and obscure that they just happened to be thinking that 'made sense', I'd have missed out on a great deal of insight about myself.

 

Provide a list of symptoms and a bit of analysis later you've got a diagnosist, provided the doctor is sure of the symptoms. The hard part is what to do with that information.

 

Example: So, you were molested as a child and you think that may have lead to your hypersexual behavior. You relate that information to a doctor and sure enough, molestation is known to result in hypersexuality once one reaches adulthood. Now what? The actual therapy part of taking knowledge of the cause and translating it into behavioral change is much more difficult whether you have a doctor or not.

 

I personally don't care for your focus here on 'symptoms', 'problems', and 'disorders'. There's a movement in psychology called 'positive psychology' that I think has a great deal of merit and which I very much hope expands. It's focus is more...preventative, and instead of saying "ohh, see, here's your problem", it's more about "ohh, look at this resource! Utilize this."

 

I don't think everyone who goes to a therapist has, or should be expecting to discover, a disorder or condition. I also don't think people should only go to therapists when their coping mechanisms have completely broken down and they're already in some dire emotional situation. I think far more often people - healthy, well-adjusted people - could benefit just by going periodically and talking things out and exploring their thoughts and feelings with the benefit of another person's neutral, non-judgmental perspective.

 

Anyway, that's what I think.

 

Take care

Kevin

[corvus]

I personally don't care for your focus here on 'symptoms', 'problems', and 'disorders'. There's a movement in psychology called 'positive psychology' that I think has a great deal of merit and which I very much hope expands. It's focus is more...preventative, and instead of saying "ohh, see, here's your problem", it's more about "ohh, look at this resource! Utilize this."

 

I should take that personality test, but this piqued my interest. I agree with what you said about self-reflection, Kevin -- I get tons of epiphanies, and I haven't seen a psychiatrist ever. But, a lot of people still do go see psychiatrists -- more, I wager, than the number of people with serious mental disorders/problems -- because it's lovely to hear someone say, 'It's not you, it's your depression/manic bla/OC/etc.' Two strategies give you tremendous power over something: making it an "other," and giving it a name. Once that happens, you can compartmentalize it with guilt-free grace. The problem is, sometimes it makes for temporary solutions, and -- with the whole guilt-free thing -- not taking responsibility for what's, ultimately, your own problem. There's a difference between blaming your depression for your suicide attempt and blaming yourself. Lots of overlap, but still a difference.

 

I guess my overall point is that creating 'problems' and 'disorders' is both a method of self-reflection and a method of coping. It's sometimes a good strategy, and sometimes not.

[JamesSavik]

I've taken the Jung personality test a couple of times and it always turns out the same: INTJ

 

The Portait of the Mastermind (INTJ)

 

Of the four aspects of strategic analysis and definition, it is the contingency planning or entailment organizing role that reaches the highest development in Masterminds. Entailing or contingency planning is not an informative activity, rather it is a directive one in which the planner tells others what to do and in what order to do it. As the organizing capabilities the Masterminds increase so does their inclination to take charge of whatever is going on.

 

INTJ's that you might have heard of: Nietche, Newton, Steven Hawkings, Ike and Ayn Rand

[old bob]

I've taken the Jung personality test a couple of times and it always turns out the same: INTJ

The Portait of the Mastermind (INTJ)

Of the four aspects of strategic analysis and definition, it is the contingency planning or entailment organizing role that reaches the highest development in Masterminds. Entailing or contingency planning is not an informative activity, rather it is a directive one in which the planner tells others what to do and in what order to do it. As the organizing capabilities the Masterminds increase so does their inclination to take charge of whatever is going on.

INTJ's that you might have heard of: Nietche, Newton, Steven Hawkings, Ike and Ayn Rand

Hi James,

Do you recognize you in this portrait ? You didn't say anything to confirm it

BTW, from your posts, blogs and comment, I would say "YES".

But, according to the Jung's theory, each character has his shadow side, mostly well hidden. Which is yours?

"KNOW YOURSELF" as I said in my first post. But perhaps it is private, I don't want to disturb you .

Keep well

Old Bob