[OFF TOPIC] English ...

[BlueSoxSWJ]

 

Okay, I need to rant, and this is my favorite forum that I lurk/post on, so you guys get it. Today was the day no one could write proper English. I'm not counting casual e-mails, IMs, forum postings, anything written by a non-native speaker, etc. All these mistakes are pulled from professional documents (either reports or e-mails, but formal, inter-company business e-mails), and every single writer has a college degree at a minimum (job requirement).

 

"If you have any questions, simply revise to this address."

 

"[There is some sort of problem.] Please advice." (On this one, Microsoft Outlook corrects "Please advise." to "Please advice." so I guess this one is at least understandable ...)

 

"Do to the weather, ..."

 

"We new this would be a problem, ..."

 

"The drop in price on this security alone caused the fund to loose nearly $1M."

 

And in a (professionally edited!) book I'm reading:

 

" 'Look at that.' He said." (A lot of GA authors do this one, too.)

 

"exobitionist"

 

I swear, I was one "its" vs. "it's" away from replying to grammatically offensive e-mails today with

 

Bonus points to anyone who gets the topic description reference.

[C James]

 

Okay, I need to rant, and this is my favorite forum that I lurk/post on, so you guys get it. Today was the day no one could write proper English. I'm not counting casual e-mails, IMs, forum postings, anything written by a non-native speaker, etc. All these mistakes are pulled from professional documents (either reports or e-mails, but formal, inter-company business e-mails), and every single writer has a college degree at a minimum (job requirement).

 

"If you have any questions, simply revise to this address."

 

"[There is some sort of problem.] Please advice." (On this one, Microsoft Outlook corrects "Please advise." to "Please advice." so I guess this one is at least understandable ...)

 

"Do to the weather, ..."

 

"We new this would be a problem, ..."

 

"The drop in price on this security alone caused the fund to loose nearly $1M."

 

And in a (professionally edited!) book I'm reading:

 

" 'Look at that.' He said." (A lot of GA authors do this one, too.)

 

"exobitionist"

 

I swear, I was one "its" vs. "it's" away from replying to grammatically offensive e-mails today with

 

Bonus points to anyone who gets the topic description reference.

 

Bluesox, I share your pain. Thanks for posting this!

 

I'm dyslexic, so I often miss such things when reading (I had a hard time spotting that "loose" above), but I see enough to make my eyes roll on many an occasion.

 

However, even I often spot glaring errors in professionally-edited books, and they are made by writers who one would assume know better.

 

The way I look at it is like this: typos happen. We all (especially our long-suffering editors and betas) wish they didn't, but they do. However, what gets my goat (Sorry, couldn't resist!) is when highly paid writers make repeated "newbie" mistakes. The examples you cite are similar to ones I've seen in best-seller published books. One (of many) that usually jumps out at me is "mute point" instead of "moot point". Another is.. Well, you get the idea; they are many and varied. I do indeed see "its" and "it's" mixed up, over and over and over again, by highly paid pro writers. I have to wonder, when such a volume of goofs gets through, just how bad their unedited work is.

 

With grammar, there is for many a learning curve. One glaring example of writer ignorance that I like to cite is my own. During FTL, I was mangling the grammar regarding dialog. I was unaware that you only use a comma after a speech tag prior to dialog.

For example,

 

Wrong way: The man nodded, "Yes, I agree," he said.

Right way: The man nodded. "Yes, I agree," he said.

 

You only use the comma after a speech tag, such as...... The man coughed once before saying, "Yes, I agree."

 

I used speech tags incorrectly in some cases in FTL due to not knowing this rule. A good friend and mentor alerted me to the problem (Thanks!), and I've since tired to scan the FTL chapters and correct those goofs, but I know I've missed plenty.

 

I'm mentioning this for two reasons; the obvious one is as an example, but the second reason is to illustrate the point that sometimes, the writer just doesn't know any better unless he or she is told.

 

This is a delicate matter because for some reason some authors do not appreciate even private constructive criticism. My own opinion is that it is in the author's self-interest to be not only open to but thankful for such help. That's why I encourage it in my case, public or private, either way is fine and is deeply appreciated. I know that I make errors, and I know that I still have much to learn regarding grammar.

 

No bonus points for me... I don't get the topic description reference.

[MikeL]

I know that I make errors, and I know that I still have much to learn regarding grammar.

 

No bonus points for me... I don't get the topic description reference.

CJ makes most of his errors due to nervousness brought on by peering over the next cliff. For many authors, the errors arise from a lack of attention to their work. Most of them know the grammar rules, spelling, etc., but don't take the time to review. Most of us readers, tend to insert the correct word, spelling, or punctuation and never notice the error; we know subconsciously what the author intended to say.

 

Our education system bears a lot of the blame by not emphasizing the grammar rules. Teachers want students to express their thoughts and emotions and overlook the fact that what is put down on paper may be incomprehensible. Insisting that students comply with all the rules may injure their precious little psyches. Schools, at least in the US, should institute an EFL curriculum. That's English as a first language.

As for the bonus points, all I can see is that BlueSox may have intentionally used "in" rather than "or"; the description should read "Do they speak English or What?"

[jkeeling]

CJ makes most of his errors due to nervousness brought on by peering over the next cliff. For many authors, the errors arise from a lack of attention to their work. Most of them know the grammar rules, spelling, etc., but don't take the time to review. Most of us readers, tend to insert the correct word, spelling, or punctuation and never notice the error; we know subconsciously what the author intended to say.

 

Our education system bears a lot of the blame by not emphasizing the grammar rules. Teachers want students to express their thoughts and emotions and overlook the fact that what is put down on paper may be incomprehensible. Insisting that students comply with all the rules may injure their precious little psyches. Schools, at least in the US, should institute an EFL curriculum. That's English as a first language.

As for the bonus points, all I can see is that BlueSox may have intentionally used "in" rather than "or"; the description should read "Do they speak English or What?"

 

I think you may have gotten it amphibious friend.

 

Sadly I didn't notice that. lol I also didn't notice the loose instead of lose.

 

Autocorrect is so quick I miss a lot of mistakes.

 

[MikeL]

I think you may have gotten it amphibious friend.

 

Sadly I didn't notice that. lol I also didn't notice the loose instead of lose.

 

Autocorrect is so quick I miss a lot of mistakes.

 

Those spell checkers make a lot of mistakes. Sometimes they do no more than insure that the wrong word is spelled correctly (e.g., "loose" vs. "lose").

[TalonRider]

Those spell checkers make a lot of mistakes. Sometimes they do no more than insure that the wrong word is spelled correctly (e.g., "loose" vs. "lose").

I think that's because spell checker doesn't know the meaning of the words.

[BlueSoxSWJ]

Those spell checkers make a lot of mistakes. Sometimes they do no more than insure that the wrong word is spelled correctly (e.g., "loose" vs. "lose").

Ack! Another of my biggest pet peeves!

 

Insure:

1. to guarantee against loss or harm.

2. to secure indemnity to or on, in case of loss, damage, or death.

3. to issue or procure an insurance policy on or for.

 

Ensure:

1. to secure or guarantee: This letter will ensure you a hearing.

2. to make sure or certain: measures to ensure the success of an undertaking.

3. to make secure or safe, as from harm.

 

Most of us readers, tend to insert the correct word, spelling, or punctuation and never notice the error; we know subconsciously what the author intended to say.

Indeed this is the reason why your own writing is much harder to edit than someone else's - you anticipate what you're saying, and your mind sees what it wants to see.

 

Your point on education is also valid; perhaps the reason I get so worked up about these mistakes is because I actually did have thorough English teachers. In particular, my senior year of high school, my teacher's policy was that no paper could receive better than an A- if it had a grammar, spelling, or punctuation error. It's also interesting to see how common mistakes evolve into common usage, and eventually become "correct" - for example, using "they" as a singular pronoun when gender is unknown or deliberately left ambiguous.

 

As for the bonus points, all I can see is that BlueSox may have intentionally used "in" rather than "or"; the description should read "Do they speak English or What?"

Pulp Fiction Scene (contains violence and strong language)

 

Edit: added a bit; fixed spacing issues

Edited January 7, 2009 by BlueSoxSWJ

[jkeeling]

Ack! Another of my biggest pet peeves!

 

Insure:

1. to guarantee against loss or harm.

2. to secure indemnity to or on, in case of loss, damage, or death.

3. to issue or procure an insurance policy on or for.

 

Ensure:

1. to secure or guarantee: This letter will ensure you a hearing.

2. to make sure or certain: measures to ensure the success of an undertaking.

3. to make secure or safe, as from harm.

 

 

Indeed this is the reason why your own writing is much harder to edit than someone else's - you anticipate what you're saying, and your mind sees what it wants to see.

 

Your point on education is also valid; perhaps the reason I get so worked up about these mistakes is because I actually did have thorough English teachers. In particular, my senior year of high school, my teacher's policy was that no paper could receive better than an A- if it had a grammar, spelling, or punctuation error. It's also interesting to see how common mistakes evolve into common usage, and eventually become "correct" - for example, using "they" as a singular pronoun when gender is unknown or deliberately left ambiguous.

 

 

Pulp Fiction Scene (contains violence and strong language)

 

Edit: added a bit; fixed spacing issues

 

 

Easy now. Don't shoot anyone due to poor grammar and spelling. I apologize in advance and after the fact for my poor grammar and spelling.

 

 

[C James]

Indeed this is the reason why your own writing is much harder to edit than someone else's - you anticipate what you're saying, and your mind sees what it wants to see.

 

Oh, how true that is. I can't count the times when one of my chapters has come back to me and I've seen glaring goofs pointed out, yet could I see them when I proofed it? Nope... .

 

For me, the hardest things are look-alike words. One of my most common goofs is substituting out for our. Another is waive for wave, or brought for bought. I do know the difference, but I don't "see" them when I proofread. I see what I think is supposed to be there. I suspect that I have greater trouble with this due to being dyslexic.

 

Another cause of goofs in my chapters is spelling-check. I freely admit to being an atrocious speller, so I use Word's grammar and spelling checker before anyone on my team sees a draft. I also have it set to highlight incorrect words as I type. The problem is, I apparently select the wrong "suggestion" from the list, and then I see what I thought should be there, not what I selected. Oops...

 

BTW, today, while in a waiting room, I happened to glance at New Yorker magazine. Seems they don't know whether or not to capitalize cardinal compass directions; I saw them us them both ways, repeatedly.

[MikeL]

Your point on education is also valid; perhaps the reason I get so worked up about these mistakes is because I actually did have thorough English teachers. In particular, my senior year of high school, my teacher's policy was that no paper could receive better than an A- if it had a grammar, spelling, or punctuation error. It's also interesting to see how common mistakes evolve into common usage, and eventually become "correct" - for example, using "they" as a singular pronoun when gender is unknown or deliberately left ambiguous.

My wife is a retired high school English teacher. She was forever complaining about how ill prepared 9th graders were for writing coherent papers and comprehensible test answers. She spent an inordinate amount of time teaching grammar rules at the expense of exploring the vast world of literature. The teachers of other high school subjects felt that grammar is the English teachers' responsibility and that they could accept anything on papers and test answers in their classes. I wonder how many students lost points in History or Science when they knew the material but couldn't express themselves.

 

Fortunately, the school had a good English department and many students went on to score 4 or 5 on AP tests or sufficient scores on CLEP tests to exempt them from one or two years of college English courses.

 

In the matter of insure vs. ensure:

Edited January 7, 2009 by MikeL