HMS Belvidera

[Mark Arbour]

An absolutely delightful read. So glad to hear there is more to come. I have in the last few days read from the beginning and am firmly hooked. I have always loved the stories of this genre and have to say that the detail, perfectly proportioned, is delightful. The sexual scenes are not overdone and are in fact tastefully presented. Only one place did it seem like ever male Granger came in contact with was gay and horny but the Caribbean does that to a lad. The guy with one testicle was a bit much for me but entertaining nonetheless.

I think the one-balled Dutchman was kind of sexy.

 

A question I have about Winkler. At first he was a midshipman. He was injured, splinters in the leg. Granger took him home and saw to his healing and needs after he was taken for his pay. Was he brought back in a military capacity or a personal one? I never heard of a rank or where (or if) he sleeps. Save the one time he said he'd sleep outside the door. Does he have to dress in uniform or continue on in civilian dress. If he were to continue as a midshipman then it would seem to me that he would have the captains ear about skuttlebut and we would see more of that. And the lad needs to be caught with his pants down once. Or is he not a young man of apatite.

Enric did a really good job of laying out the difference between a middie and a volunteer. A Captain was entitled to several "servants" and Winkler would have fallen into that class. Often these were ship's boys, although the boys could have other jobs. The most visible was that of "Powder Monkey," where the boys would run from the guns to the magazine and back, carrying fresh powder charges during action. Granger was able to circumvent the "ship's boy" category through a corrupt but common practice whereby influential sons were carried on ship's books for years prior to them actually going to sea. Winkler is still pretty young, but we may see more of his personal life in the future.

 

As for uniforms, the Royal Navy only started having set uniforms in the late 1700s, and then only for officers. There was a big change in 1795 (as we've seen) and there's another one in the early 1800s. Seamen didn't have a standard uniform, although they often dressed alike since they usually got spare clothes from "the slop chest", a sort of informal store run by the purser. It is possible that Winkler and other servants, while serving a meal, would have a set uniform, but I haven't specified that. It would probably be similar to the clothes Granger bought for his gig's crew.

 

I was a little dismayed that the loss of Michel was not extended to the French chef. After all he was a teacher and mentor when they got to Brentwood. He was quite fond of the little lad. I would think that Granger should have pulled him aside and a tear should have been shed.

True, and I probably overlooked that when I shouldn't have.

 

Did Ranger transfer too? What will happen when the new crew eats the dog? He is competition for the rats and is a fine piece of meat himself.

 

 

No one would dare to eat the Captain's dog. I had originally planned for Ranger to have a bigger role, but Granger is so busy with humans, it tends to fill up a story.

[Mark Arbour]

This is a much larger ship and certainly large enough to have a captain's mess and a Galley for the men. It is odd that the captain never visited the men's galley or the officer's mess. They always came to his quarters for meetings and dinner. Perhaps now and then the captain will surprise the cook by sampling the men's cuisine. It would do much for morale, especially if he found the cook to be afoul his duty or ability.

Not likely. Remember, you're seeing a microcosm of society. Granger is at the apex (as any Post Captain would be on his ship) while the crew are basically at the nadir. That's like expecting Donald Trump to eat at a soup kitchen (OK, not quite). Anyway, things were very stratified, so having the Captain stroll down and eat with the men would probably harm morale, as it would be seen as conduct not fitting an officer. It is possible that the captain would dine with his officers in the wardroom, but only at their invitation. It was much more likely and common for him to host his officers in his cabin. The Captain had lots of room for his stores and had the most room to entertain, plus it would have been seen as his obligation to entertain.

 

The crew would eat as a "mess", or group of men. The galley would have been where the galley stove was, which was in the forecastle. Part of the stove was used for the crew, and another part was used for the Captain and officers.

 

Where is the list of new midshipmen? A much larger ship/crew should have a cadre of new gosslings to learn navigation. We have only one and I suspect he will not have to kiss the gunner's daughter. The bigger question I guess is does he play the skin flute too?

There were several ship's boys, but three was the normal number of mids for a frigate. A ship-of-the-line would have more.

 

Lennox - another man injured by splinters. 'Don't know if he will ever regain use because he severed so many tendons' (Paraphrased) with cut tendons he would have little use. It is not stated or shown that he has any deficiency at all. I think it would be good to hear more about the little rascal's loyalty/disability.

 

Splinter injuries were very common from action. Visualize a cannon-ball slamming through the oak side of a ship, spewing shards of wood out like it's own little sub-missiles. When you think of a splinter in this era, don't think of the little things we call slivers. Splinters was a term used to describe wood that had been blasted away, so they could be a foot or longer in length.

 

It seems that Granger has a great deal of charisma like lord Nelson and that instills loyalty among his crew. It will be interesting to see how that is translated to the new crew and how they will show that it. Or are the scars they bear too deep for recovery?

 

At some point I think that adding a line about them not jumping ship because he lined well the pockets of all of his previous crews would be a pertinent point to make. It was stated that them jumping ship was not an issue because of his [Granger's] reputation and finding replacements would be easy. It might be good to knock a presumptuous captain down a notch by those two items being brought to light by a cheeky seaman.

Manning Royal Navy ships was a huge job. There were men who had good reputations, though, who never had problems finding a crew. Cochrane, Nelson, and Pellew come to mind. Granger would be like that.

 

The larger the crew the larger the discipline problems and issues. And harder to drive home the point. But it will require a serious skill to not push the men back into feeling like it is all starting over again and that Granger is not just another power hungry slave driver like the last. Keeping in mind that most seaman could not read and write and none of them knew of Granger's conquests except through word of mouth, I am sure that some would think that this change of clothes and cleaning of the ship is fine and dandy when in port but what about when he get's the ship out of view of the admiralty.

 

From what I've read, mutiny was less like a revolt and more like a strike, and was much more common than we are led to believe. But extreme mutiny like Belvidera experienced, was rare. We'll see Granger deal with mutiny in 1797.

 

Calvert - Will he end up in the Mediterranean with Granger AND Travis? This could be a battle that could get them all longer necks if they were not careful.

 

We don't know where Calvert will end up yet (and I don't know where he'll end up yet either). Keep in mind that even if officers were caught in the "reprehensible" crime of buggery, it is unlikely that they would hang. Especially well-connected officers like Granger.

 

A question about Bertie, does getting his grandfather's ring signify that he is re-inherited?

Rather, it's his father's way of saying that he still loves him and considers him his son.

 

 

It occurred to me that he was taken to his home. It is unlikely that he would be permitted to hang out in the mansion in sail canvas clothes. So he would have at least one set of clothes. that would put him one step above as far as wardrobe.

 

He attends the captain and sleep is a commodity for a captain. He is always awoken by Winkler. He needs to be closer than crew quarters. perhaps he has a bunk in the galley or captains mess. He get's less sleep than the captain.

 

Granger also has mentioned that he needs to do something nice for him. I think it was just a short brief thought and then he was distracted. But he is the confidant. Discretion is the better part of valor.

 

Any thoughts on any of the rest?

 

Thanks

r

 

 

I would guess that Winkler sleeps in Granger's cabin outside his door.

[Daisy]

Aren't your armies, or navies, kitchens or places where the guys eat called, the Mess? I take it they probably aren't if you are emphasising it.

[Mark Arbour]

Aren't your armies, or navies, kitchens or places where the guys eat called, the Mess? I take it they probably aren't if you are emphasising it.

 

They probably are. When I was young, I always thought that was because all guys were as big of slobs as I was.

[ricky]

Thanks very much. I understood about the splinter injury type. that really wasn't the crux of the question though. It was the amount of disability that Lennox was left with. When they shook hands at port it wasn't mentioned either. The reason it is relevant to the story core of the story is that George has built a crew that has exceptional loyalties to him. Winkler for instance has a debt to him beyond just the job. Likewise, Granger did not cash him out at port. So keeping a disabled midi, in my mind would seldom happen. Granted since he was a midi then he is from influence. He also made the comment about one armed Admirals. Does he think he has a larger debt to the boy?

 

There are a lot of really great relational dynamics in this story.

 

By the way, saw the example of the great room. Fantastic.

[Mark Arbour]

Thanks very much. I understood about the splinter injury type. that really wasn't the crux of the question though. It was the amount of disability that Lennox was left with. When they shook hands at port it wasn't mentioned either. The reason it is relevant to the story core of the story is that George has built a crew that has exceptional loyalties to him. Winkler for instance has a debt to him beyond just the job. Likewise, Granger did not cash him out at port. So keeping a disabled midi, in my mind would seldom happen. Granted since he was a midi then he is from influence. He also made the comment about one armed Admirals. Does he think he has a larger debt to the boy?

 

There are a lot of really great relational dynamics in this story.

 

By the way, saw the example of the great room. Fantastic.

 

 

You're right, I went off on a tangent. I never really addressed Lenox's disability issues. Guess I'll have to revisit that. But keeping Lennox around, disabled or not, is something Granger would do unless it was really dire (like he was paraplegic). Why? His father is a Duke. That would probably be the US equivalent, influence-wise, of Warren Buffet and a US Senator combined. You sure as hell wouldn't drum someone like that off your ship.

 

 

[Mark M]

wow is it just me or are the elder wiser people having a conversation i feel small at the moment. oh well reading all this was very educational.

 

anywayyy since 5 and si had to be done i think both should be up :D

[ricky]

wow is it just me or are the elder wiser people having a conversation

 

damn, I think that was my first slap. Not bad, almost made it as a member 48 hours before I felt the cold sting of youth.

 

I'll have you know I went to a resturaunt and she charged me the senior rates! I made her take her discount back. I told her, I'm not there yet, I just smell that way. My god they had to call a manager. Never happened before. That Haggis Wench!

 

It's alright Mark, I've been called old before, so don't get your nappies in a bunch.

lol

 

Cheers.

r

[Mark Arbour]

damn, I think that was my first slap. Not bad, almost made it as a member 48 hours before I felt the cold sting of youth.

 

I'll have you know I went to a resturaunt and she charged me the senior rates! I made her take her discount back. I told her, I'm not there yet, I just smell that way. My god they had to call a manager. Never happened before. That Haggis Wench!

 

It's alright Mark, I've been called old before, so don't get your nappies in a bunch.

lol

 

Cheers.

r

 

 

 

See, and I thought mm was just telling us he was really drunk and the whole conversation came close to flying over his head, but sunk in anyway.

[ricky]

but sunk in anyway.

 

Mark you didn't seem to be the Punny type. But as they say in Master and Commander, you're the lesser of two weevils.

[Guest Wyndham]

This forum is almost as interesting as reading the story itsself!

 

I have been a fan of historical naval fiction for a long time and this story is as good as the others..... Of course it benefits from the Gay interest which makes it even more fun.

 

Please don't rush the stories Mark - I am quite happy to wait as I understand the pressures of "the real world" but also your attention to historical detail and getting the atmosphere and environment just right.

 

A request if I may: Can we have a little more nudity? Perhaps the lads larking about after showers on the deck? I also love it when you include descriptions about Granger observing someone's thighs or buttocks...... strong arms and shoulders, etc

 

btw Happy New Year to all.

[ricky]

Please don't rush the stories Mark - I am quite happy to wait as I understand the pressures of "the real world" but also your attention to historical detail and getting the atmosphere and environment just right.

 

A request if I may: Can we have a little more nudity? Perhaps the lads larking about after showers on the deck? I also love it when you include descriptions about Granger observing someone's thighs or buttocks...... strong arms and shoulders, etc

 

btw Happy New Year to all.

 

Mark don't listen to him. Damn reality and obligations. Without the written word life has no record! And if you are taking requests. I want poor Winkler to get laid by a lad.

 

And hey, I have seniority! I've been a member at least 35 hours longer than Wyndam. well almost. And I'm a bigger fan! Unless he can top 300 lbs. (I'm just big boned)

[Mark Arbour]

This forum is almost as interesting as reading the story itsself!

 

I have been a fan of historical naval fiction for a long time and this story is as good as the others..... Of course it benefits from the Gay interest which makes it even more fun.

 

Please don't rush the stories Mark - I am quite happy to wait as I understand the pressures of "the real world" but also your attention to historical detail and getting the atmosphere and environment just right.

 

A request if I may: Can we have a little more nudity? Perhaps the lads larking about after showers on the deck? I also love it when you include descriptions about Granger observing someone's thighs or buttocks...... strong arms and shoulders, etc

 

btw Happy New Year to all.

 

You get your request in chapter 6. Even though it's not finished yet.

[Mark Arbour]

Mark don't listen to him. Damn reality and obligations. Without the written word life has no record! And if you are taking requests. I want poor Winkler to get laid by a lad.

 

And hey, I have seniority! I've been a member at least 35 hours longer than Wyndam. well almost. And I'm a bigger fan! Unless he can top 300 lbs. (I'm just big boned)

 

Hey, no internecine warfare here in my forums!

 

This story is just going to take longer for me to get it the way I want it. Sad but true. Part of the reason for that is I want to splice Belvidera in as a substitute for actual ships when Granger makes it back to the Med. It will provide a little more historical accuracy, and let me bring Nelson more fully into the story. He was a great guy to work for, but not a great guy to have working for you (A great supervisor, a shitty employee, and a so-so co-worker).

[ricky]

Hey, no internecine warfare here in my forums!

 

and let me bring Nelson more fully into the story.

 

He also was one armed! He lost his right arm in action. Another tie to Lennox who still has one but may have limited strength or use due to severed tendons. Tendons never repair themselves, they must be retied as they are the cables muscles use to move bones. The doctor said he had several severed.

[Mark Arbour]

He also was one armed! He lost his right arm in action. Another tie to Lennox who still has one but may have limited strength or use due to severed tendons. Tendons never repair themselves, they must be retied as they are the cables muscles use to move bones. The doctor said he had several severed.

 

You're a bit focused on that aren't you? I have to go back and read about what I said and give poor Lennox some lingering problem. Maybe he can't jack off anymore?

[ricky]

Maybe he can't jack off anymore?

 

Ya perhaps I am a bit focused. Perhaps that would explain his frustrations. Perhaps he has a serious need to have someone tickle his Winkler!

 

Perhaps I identify him as Max Pirkis - Blakeney from Master and Commander

 

[Mark Arbour]

 

 

I rather think of him more as a blonde version of Max Benitz (Callamy). Damn. I think I'll use this guy as my model for Cavendish.

[Conner]

They probably are. When I was young, I always thought that was because all guys were as big of slobs as I was.

 

 

The correct phrasing would be, "When I was younger,..."

[Enric]

You're right, I went off on a tangent. I never really addressed Lenox's disability issues. Guess I'll have to revisit that. But keeping Lennox around, disabled or not, is something Granger would do unless it was really dire (like he was paraplegic). Why? His father is a Duke. That would probably be the US equivalent, influence-wise, of Warren Buffet and a US Senator combined. You sure as hell wouldn't drum someone like that off your ship.

 

 

 

 

actually, as it was written in the beginning, a greatest reason to keep Lennox would be that he's Georgie's cousin and set as his ward, protegee. In that kinship society, people with power simply did not leave their cousins and fosterlings out, if there was not a very heavy reason, such as being almost totally invalid.

 

Of course, that kinship between Georgie and yuong Lennox may correlate with Lennox's daddy's position: such a protegee position came in Lennox' way because in their family circle, his father was in position to get the best of available relatives to take charge of the kid. This actually was a great accolade and sign of trust in Georgie's abilities: as young commander, he got the son of hghest in their family circle.

 

That said, if Georgie had taken in a poverty-stricken relatives's son, the same applies: Georgie will not reject sich a boy, from his ship...

[ricky]

I think that the reference to cashing him out at port was mostly because they didn't have 'extra" hands on board. Everyone had a job or two. And it wasn't that large of a ship or crew when it happened. Every hand counts so to speak. And it wouldn't be with a loss of honor, but better to return the boy home alive with one arm than to allow him to become injured more severely trying to do something he used to do with two hands.

 

Yes I understand the relative relationship and the sense of duty there. But I can't imagine a kid who didn't absolutely have to stay after such and experience, wanting to stay.

[sat8997]

The correct phrasing would be, "When I was younger,..."

 

Snaugh

[paya]

well I finally found enough will to read the story, the chapter 4... still in limbo, definitely without Calvert from now on... well... OK then at least there are Bloodlines to please my soul but they're ending soon as well IDK... HMS Belvidera hasn't catch me so far but I'm still waiting... I like more the stories about couples, while this one starts to look like one man show... so... it's different.

 

 

 

 

Oh and where is Freddie? Isn't he supposed to be pursuing a political career or something? One would think he'd like to meet his brother or that at least they meet at Carlton House.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2010 by paya

[Mark M]

i love how theres four chapters out and five pages of forms.....

[Mark Arbour]

i love how theres four chapters out and five pages of forms.....

 

 

Me too.