Paternity

[methodwriter85]

Some of you might know/have gathered that I'm currently doing a complete reread through CAP again, and this evening I've just finished "the box", which is in many ways the "odd one out" of the CAP series. We see glimpses of Matt and Wade in this story too, and I've got to say that there has been a drastic change in Matt's personality since the box, through millennium, up until now. I'm even more convinced that Matt is in some kind of crisis in his mind. What that is, I dont know - but I am extremely intrigued.

 

Mr Arbour, this is down to your exceptional writing talent....

 

I'm reading it as, Matt's hitting junior year of college. Instead of focusing on what happens next, Matt's immersing himself into everything that he loves about college, the being BMOC as captain of the hockey team. He wants to leave campus a legend, and everything is going into being Mr. Crazy Party Guy. Meanwhile, Wade's already past all of that, and he wants to focus on his future and raising his son. Matt's not yet ready to settle down into domesticity, which is understandable for a 20-year old. But Wade wants more, likely because he wants to provide a stable family environment for his son, and he can't quite get why Matt isn't ready to be the supporting partner yet.

 

Wade's eyes are firmly looking ahead, while Matt's are firmly fixed in the college atmosphere around him that he loves so.

Edited December 11, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Westie]

I'm reading it as, Matt's hitting junior year of college. Instead of focusing on what happens next, Matt's immersing himself into everything that he loves about college, the being BMOC as captain of the hockey team. He wants to leave campus a legend, and everything is going into being Mr. Crazy Party Guy. Meanwhile, Wade's already past all of that, and he wants to focus on his future and raising his son. Matt's not yet ready to settle down into domesticity, which is understandable for a 20-year old. But Wade wants more, likely because he wants to provide a stable family environment for his son, and he can't quite get why Matt isn't ready to be the supporting partner yet.

 

Wade's eyes are firmly looking ahead, while Matt's are firmly fixed in the college atmosphere around him that he loves so.

 

I'm not sure Matt is so.... One dimensional? If he wanted to be BMOC, he would have a plan, and he would ruthlessly pursue it. Im pretty sure having a steady boyfriend (albeit in an open relationship) , who happens to be the son of a senator and President of the LGBT club doesn't go with the "big man" image. More than that, we saw in bloodlines that, like JP, Matt feels the pressure of his heritage - but he feels that a few times over. Firstly, he is a Carswold, secondly, he is the son of Robbie Hayes. And lest we forget, you cannot spend more than an hour with this family without feeling the weight of generations of Cramptons and Schluters, I genuinely do think this is a crisis - and to some extent you might be right in that partially this is a crisis of "responsibility" - but I think this goes much deeper than just a 20-year old who doesn't want to settle down and has some lame ambitions to be the big man on campus.

[Mark Arbour]

I'm not sure Matt is so.... One dimensional? If he wanted to be BMOC, he would have a plan, and he would ruthlessly pursue it. Im pretty sure having a steady boyfriend (albeit in an open relationship) , who happens to be the son of a senator and President of the LGBT club doesn't go with the "big man" image. More than that, we saw in bloodlines that, like JP, Matt feels the pressure of his heritage - but he feels that a few times over. Firstly, he is a Carswold, secondly, he is the son of Robbie Hayes. And lest we forget, you cannot spend more than an hour with this family without feeling the weight of generations of Cramptons and Schluters, I genuinely do think this is a crisis - and to some extent you might be right in that partially this is a crisis of "responsibility" - but I think this goes much deeper than just a 20-year old who doesn't want to settle down and has some lame ambitions to be the big man on campus.

 

I'd comment on this, but it would probably give away too much of what's coming down the road. I think the nature of Matt's crisis becomes less vague after Chapter 6. After that one's up, I'll explain it a little more in the forums.

[KYE]

but its not just about Children. For some its about the Journey. For many its about societal pressure. For others, it may just be because they genuinely like both. I do not doubt that, had I not found my wonderful paya - I could have easily settled down into a "conventional" arrangement. And I do not doubt, that given that there is no pressure in this family regarding choices, each child would feel total freedom of expression. Moreover, given that there is a somewhat looser attitude to the importance of sex and monogamy in this family and these stories - I think it entirely realistic for Will and others to have the occasional exploration and adventure.

 

I agree it is not just about children. I mentioned children in my comment as an after thought for 2 primary reasons. First being that previous post in the thread mentioned the possibility of Will getting a girl pregnant. Second being that with the history of the CAP series one might expect Will to continue Brad's Bloodline as his natural son.

 

My primary comment was to point out that it is very realistic for "many" GAY men not to have a heterosexual moment. I did not say most, half, or any specific percentage because I would have no idea of a correct number. I can see where it would be realistic and predictable for this family with the history of every main Gay character, male and female, having a heterosexual moment for Will to have one also. But from a non-fiction standpoint it would be very realistic for a Gay guy not to have a heterosexual moment. Maybe Will will be the first in the CAP series? I can also see where the bi-sexual readers of this series would be wishing for Will to have a heterosexual moment.

 

I have found this new story very interesting so far and I am just sitting back enjoying the ride to see where it takes me.

[methodwriter85]

I don't think it's one-dimensional or lame of Matt to be at a place in his life where he just wants to focus on having fun because he's not really sure what he wants to do with his life, or that he realizes on some level that there's only a limited time for him to be able to be irreverent before having to assume the mantle of the responsible adult. *I* was one of those guys, who threw himself as hard as he could into partying junior year because I wanted to get the most out of the college experience as I could because I suddenly realized that I was almost done(actually, turns out I wasn't), and that didn't make me shallow or one-dimensional.

 

From my own perspective, I noticed two certain types in college*- those who got out of sowing their wild oats by the time they got to sophomore year, and those who still needed to be crazy all the way up to their 4th or 5th year. I'm noticing in Matt certain aspects of myself, and of the guys I knew when I was college. Which is why Mark's characters are so engaging- they remind you of people you've known in your lifetime. Everyone has known a Will, everyone's known a JJ, everyone's known a John, everyone has known a Matt.

 

*Before I get screamed at about how there were way more than two types of people and that I shouldn't just assume, I'm just noting two particular types of people, not that they represent everyone I've ever met.

Edited December 12, 2011 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

I'm reading it as, Matt's hitting junior year of college. Instead of focusing on what happens next, Matt's immersing himself into everything that he loves about college, the being BMOC as captain of the hockey team. He wants to leave campus a legend, and everything is going into being Mr. Crazy Party Guy. Meanwhile, Wade's already past all of that, and he wants to focus on his future and raising his son. Matt's not yet ready to settle down into domesticity, which is understandable for a 20-year old. But Wade wants more, likely because he wants to provide a stable family environment for his son, and he can't quite get why Matt isn't ready to be the supporting partner yet.

 

Wade's eyes are firmly looking ahead, while Matt's are firmly fixed in the college atmosphere around him that he loves so.

 

Oh please.... as if anyone at Stanford cares about the hockey team or playing it makes you a BMOC. Stanford's winning athletic programs are the water polo team, swim team, tennis and golf and even those guys don't get props for the national championships they win. Stanford is chock full of Olympians and they get scant attention. The best water polo player in the country was there, star of the US Men's National Team and hardly anyone knew who he was. Football is getting some attention now, but back in 2000-01 they were fair to middling. They'd have one good year followed by a mediocre year and there was as much anti-football sentiment among the undergrads as there was pro-football. Cal was the same way, it was cool to find football "brutal and bourgeois" .

 

I know guys who are still "sowing wild oats" and my parents do too. The guys who never grew up and are now in the mid 50's and on wife #3 and family #2. By the time I was a junior I was ready to get out and as a senior, I couldn't imagine I had ever been as bad/immature as the freshmen and sophomores were.

 

Matt comes from good stock though and I suspect he'll straighten out. Whether or not he does that in time to keep his relationship with Wade is a different topic. But remember the gay/bi community isn't the straight community. You don't have unlimited opportunities for relationships with quality, serious people. Finding that serious, committed guy is a lot harder and after you have dated a couple of schmucks, that "boring" ex starts to look pretty good.

Edited December 14, 2011 by PrivateTim

[methodwriter85]

Oh please.... as if anyone at Stanford cares about the hockey team or playing it makes you a BMOC. Standford's winning athletic programs are the water polo team, swim team, tennis and golf and even those guys don't get props for the national championships they win. Stanford is chock full of Olympians and they get scant attention. The best water polo player in the country was there, star of the US Men's National Team and hardly anyone knew who he was. Football is getting some attention now, but back in 2000-01 they were fair to middling. They'd have one good year followed by a mediocre year and there was as much anti-football sentiment among the undergrads as there was pro-football. Cal was the same way, it was cool to find football "brutal and bourgeois" .

 

I know guys who are still "sowing wild oats" and my parents to do. The guys who never grew up and are now in the mid 50's and on wife #3 and family #2. By the time I was a junior I was ready to get out and as a senior, I couldn't imagine I had ever been as bad/immature as the freshmen and sophomores were.

 

Matt comes from good stock though and I suspect he'll straighten out. Whether or not he does that in time to keep his relationship with Wade is a different topic. But remember the gay/bi community isn't the straight community. You don't have unlimited opportunities for relationships with quality, serious people. Finding that serious, committed guy is a lot harder and after you have dated a couple of schmucks, that "boring" ex starts to look pretty good.

 

UD wasn't that obsessed with sports, either. I'm just going with how Mark's been depicting Matt so far, but I gotta admit- you have a damn good point. Why is Matt so obsessed with having a great hockey team if it's just a club and no one really cares anyway?

 

It'd be interesting to see how Mark would tackle a school where sports are everything, like Penn State, USC, or Duke University.

[Mark Arbour]

Oh please.... as if anyone at Stanford cares about the hockey team or playing it makes you a BMOC. Standford's winning athletic programs are the water polo team, swim team, tennis and golf and even those guys don't get props for the national championships they win. Stanford is chock full of Olympians and they get scant attention. The best water polo player in the country was there, star of the US Men's National Team and hardly anyone knew who he was. Football is getting some attention now, but back in 2000-01 they were fair to middling. They'd have one good year followed by a mediocre year and there was as much anti-football sentiment among the undergrads as there was pro-football. Cal was the same way, it was cool to find football "brutal and bourgeois" .

 

I know guys who are still "sowing wild oats" and my parents to do. The guys who never grew up and are now in the mid 50's and on wife #3 and family #2. By the time I was a junior I was ready to get out and as a senior, I couldn't imagine I had ever been as bad/immature as the freshmen and sophomores were.

 

Matt comes from good stock though and I suspect he'll straighten out. Whether or not he does that in time to keep his relationship with Wade is a different topic. But remember the gay/bi community isn't the straight community. You don't have unlimited opportunities for relationships with quality, serious people. Finding that serious, committed guy is a lot harder and after you have dated a couple of schmucks, that "boring" ex starts to look pretty good.

 

Ponder this. It's not so much about whether the program they're in (Stanford Hockey) is all that good (it isn't), it's about winning, and leadership. If you're achievement driven, it doesn't matter if you're at Stanford, Cal, or LSU, winning is VERY important.

[Mark Arbour]

To add to my comments on winning, here's an article about Colt McCoy, and some of the issues he had with coaching. Not every coach is warm and cuddly.

 

 

As Colt McCoy(notes) prepares for Sunday’s game against the Cincinnati Bengals, the Cleveland Browns’ second-year quarterback is fighting through frustration on several fronts. His team has a disappointing 4-6 record. He and his receivers are adapting to a new, West Coast system implemented by rookie coach Pat Shurmur. And the team’s most valuable offensive player of 2010, running back Peyton Hillis(notes), has been a non-factor, undone by injury and contract-related dissatisfaction. Colt McCoy says the rough treatment he endured as a rookie from coaches helped him grow as a quarterback. "I really did appreciate them," McCoy said. "It made me stronger as a man. It taught me a lot about how to handle things."

 

Compared to the onslaught of negativity McCoy experienced as a rookie, however, these frustrations are subtle and quaint.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_colt_mccoy_browns_brian_daboll_112411

When McCoy arrived in Cleveland after a standout career as a four-year starter at the University of Texas, the third-round draft pick was welcomed with stiff arms by then-coach Eric Mangini and his assistants. Offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, in particular, unleashed a torrent of tough love, except the love part was lost on McCoy and the teammates who observed the regular razzing.

In what became a running joke in the Browns’ locker room, Daboll disparaged McCoy loudly and relentlessly – sometimes to his face, sometimes through the earpiece in the quarterback’s helmet.

“There were times I had to pull my helmet off to call a play in the huddle,” McCoy recalled in an interview earlier this month. “Guys could hear him yelling, and they’d say, ‘Just take it off.’ People said to me, ‘Man, I ain’t never seen anything like that. Just hang in there.’”

McCoy did, putting up solid numbers after taking over as the team’s starter six weeks into the 2010 season. His anticipated growth curve has leveled off in his second year – he has 2,181 passing yards, a 59.6 completion percentage, 11 touchdowns, seven interceptions and a passer rating of 79.2 – but his locker-room cred is exceedingly high, largely because teammates remember how well he handled himself as Daboll’s personal punching bag.

“I don’t think they were BFFs,” says one Browns veteran, using the common slang for “best friends forever.”

“I am not sure why Brian didn’t like Colt … I love the guy.”

 

 

[rjo]

As I was reading these comments, something came to mind that I wanted to share with you. Matt is Robbies son. One of the problems which Robbie had was that he was getting older. Robbie told Brad that Brad had promised him they would grow older together. Robbie was upset that Brad was not growing old. I am thinking that Matt loves being at Stanford, loves being captain of the hockey team, but things with soon come to the end. Like Robbie, could Matt be afraid of growing old? This summer I got together with a number of college friends and it was like all those years had disappeared. It was great! Wade is now a dad and that may not have changed Wade but it is another sign that college does not last forever. Maybe Matt doesn't want to move into the real world. I thought that turning 30 was the hardest time even harder than 50 or 60. I had to be come an adult and not so wild and crazy. When you go to college most of people are on their own for the first time. No parents. Freedom! After college you become your parents. Sometimes it takes years but it happens. A very scary thought. What do you guys think?

Edited December 13, 2011 by rjo

[methodwriter85]

That's pretty much how I'm reading it. I don't think it's out of character for Matt, because as he's been written Matt's always felt more like a party kid. I mean, he can get the grades and it's not like he completely shirks his responsibilities, but Matt never felt like someone who was in a hurry to grow up the way Wade did. Wade never really was a kid, because of his upbringing, and Wade being more mature than Matt feels consistent. I think that's one of the reasons why I wasn't on-board with Matt becoming a dad- he just didn't seem ready, and I wanted him to enjoy more of his youth first before getting tied down with the responsibility of parenthood. You only get to be in your early 20's and young once. Then you turn 25 and it's all over. LOL. (Nah, I don't really consider myself old at 26- just not all that young, either.)

 

The interesting thing about this is that it reveals a split that I noticed starting around junior year- people either get really into their future, or double down in their efforts to enjoy college because on some level they realize it's almost over. I knew kids who did a 5th year, or did a whole new degree program, purely because they didn't want to leave University of Delaware. Plus junior year there's usually a spike in partying because that's usually when you and your friends are turning 21. Matt and Wade are probably starting to attend more 21st birthday parties during this school year.

 

Anyone ever attempted 21 shots for 21? I couldn't even get close. I think I got somewhere around seven shots, a Mike's hard lemonade, four beers, and a screwdriver. And that's about when I passed out on the bathroom floor of a bar for a few seconds and got kicked out. LOL. You gotta love 21st birthdays.

Edited December 13, 2011 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

Anyone ever attempted 21 shots for 21? I couldn't even get close. I think I got somewhere around seven shots, a Mike's hard lemonade, four beers, and a screwdriver. And that's about when I passed out on the bathroom floor of a bar for a few seconds and got kicked out. LOL. You gotta love 21st birthdays.

 

The day I graduated from Berkeley (actual last final not the ceremony) my roommate and I went to Trader Vic's and ordered one of everything on the exotic drink menu and finished them all. I think we got 8 or 9 glasses in various shapes and bowl to keep.

 

I would not recommend this.

 

Trader Vic's Drink Menu

 

[B1ue]

Blue called it- Matt's slutty ways is coming back to haunt him.

 

I did what now? You're going to make me go through all my previous comments, aren't you? Luckily, I don't talk much anyways.

 

It does occur to me that Gathan and Wade would make pretty excellent political partners for one another. Aside from Gathan's father, Gathan just doens't have the kind of skeletons in his closet that Tiffany and Matt have, and is actually both interested and experienced with political matters. I imagine Mrs. Danfield could teach him to be an excellent Evil Overlord, given the chance*. And of course Wade has kept his life clean.

[Mark Arbour]

I did what now? You're going to make me go through all my previous comments, aren't you? Luckily, I don't talk much anyways.

 

It does occur to me that Gathan and Wade would make pretty excellent political partners for one another. Aside from Gathan's father, Gathan just doens't have the kind of skeletons in his closet that Tiffany and Matt have, and is actually both interested and experienced with political matters. I imagine Mrs. Danfield could teach him to be an excellent Evil Overlord, given the chance*. And of course Wade has kept his life clean.

 

That really cracked me up! The Elizabeth Danfield School for Evil Overlords.

[centexhairysub]

Well, just finished up the fourth chapter of Paternity and can I say that Will is just the bomb... I know that sometimes he acts like a his actual age and sometimes he seems to be fourteen going on thirty but no matter what he is true to himself... I actually liked how he carried on his conversations in his head and how we were given a glimpse into his psyche. I think he is stronger than most of his family give him credit for, and I know he is kinder and more considerate than they realize. If I was Will and JJ acted that way with me, I would have tied him to a surfboard and taken him out and feed him to the sharks... JJ did do the right thing in the end by backing Will and Tiffany up that Jeanine needed to go to the hospital, he really isn't a complete idiot, just a little self absorbed. I like how Will is handling his situation at school and I can't wait to see what Will does to try and help the guy from the mission, I hope he doesn't do something to impulsive or dangerous there... I really think even with some of his questionable behaviours, that Will is as mature if not more than some of the previous generation in this family.

 

Now, onto Gathan not having as many issues as Matt or Tiffany, well where do I start... First he has basically admitted to rape with one younger female and one younger male, his cousin at that. Second, he had sex with a 13 y/o male, Will. Third, he had an affair with a much older gay male, Stefan. Fourth, both his mother and father have significant issues with the law and society. Fifth, an older gay man, Brad, gave him millions in the form of a trust fund, after he saved his life; but does anyone believe that was the real reason??? I know it was but that is what all those nasty Republicans would say given half the chance... Six, Gathan has significant anger issues and a documented history and record of them. Seven, can't you just see Kristen's parents discussing him dragging her off to Europe and almost getting her killed and then all the other drama afterward??? You can't even give Gathan credit for being more discreet or limiting the number of his partners so far, after all, he can't even decide if he likes men or women; younger than is legal or older than his grandfather; and he does seem to have a penchant for those related to him or related to those close to him. Now, I actually like Gathan, and believe that he maybe one of the more interesting people in this story for a while but to say that he doesn't have skeletons in his closet is well, laughable.

 

Now, on a serious note, I hope the situation with Jeanine is handled well. Postpartum depression is a serious condition and there is a lot of misinformation out about it. I hope that Mark shows his usual good sense in getting the information out correctly while he entertains us all.

[B1ue]

Now, onto Gathan not having as many issues as Matt or Tiffany, well where do I start... First he has basically admitted to rape with one younger female and one younger male, his cousin at that. Second, he had sex with a 13 y/o male, Will. Third, he had an affair with a much older gay male, Stefan. Fourth, both his mother and father have significant issues with the law and society. Fifth, an older gay man, Brad, gave him millions in the form of a trust fund, after he saved his life; but does anyone believe that was the real reason??? I know it was but that is what all those nasty Republicans would say given half the chance... Six, Gathan has significant anger issues and a documented history and record of them. Seven, can't you just see Kristen's parents discussing him dragging her off to Europe and almost getting her killed and then all the other drama afterward??? You can't even give Gathan credit for being more discreet or limiting the number of his partners so far, after all, he can't even decide if he likes men or women; younger than is legal or older than his grandfather; and he does seem to have a penchant for those related to him or related to those close to him. Now, I actually like Gathan, and believe that he maybe one of the more interesting people in this story for a while but to say that he doesn't have skeletons in his closet is well, laughable.

Not really the point, but I found your characterization of "Narty Republicans," said properly in a country club maven voice, to be laughable.

 

Now, how much of all of that is known by anyone but the principles? Gathan has been having sex left right and center, but most of it has been with people that do not make great character witnesses. A 13 year old slut. A 60 year old slut. Parents that he has not spoken to, unless it takes the form of a fist to the face, in 15 years. An adopted brother who batshit crazy. Of course they wouldn't believe Brad gave Gathan the money for saving his life. I think everyone would assume he got the money because he's Robbie's cousin, especially since his sister was included in the largess.

 

Compare someone who is actively and succesfully distancing himself from an unfortunate beginning, and manages to keep his dick in his pants once he's actually in a relationship against Matt, who has never met anyone he hasn't wanted to have sex with, and Tiffany "My Daddy tried to blow up the government" Van Der Boss, and well, yeah.

[methodwriter85]

Blue, you posted this in my "How the CAP Saga Should End" thread. I was talking about how I thought Mark should probably skip 2007 and go straight into 2008, because 2007 was more of a quiet year aside from Virginia Tech while '08 was just freakin' insane.

 

So for me, I'd not ask what happened in the world in 2007, but what's going to happen to them that hasn't necessarily been explored yet? Is JJ going to think about retiring in 2007, maybe going to college finally? And how will that dynamic work out with Will halfway to almost through, and getting more and more popular within his sport? Darius is going to be in the middle of law school, and for perhaps the first time in his life really stretching his mind. Matt and Wade may decide all this baby stuff is kind of awesome, and look into either having a surrogate or adopting a sprog of their own,and what impact will that have on their careers? And speaking of their careers, if Wade really does decide to go for politics, is it possible that during an appointment hearing or pre-election start-up Matt's rather...enthusiastic past comes out? Matt's an acknowledged slut, as much as Cody and Stef were, but they made it work for them. Could it be a liability for Matt?

The professional surf stuff and Wade waiting until he's about 27 to tackle parenthood were off, but the bit about Matt's sluttiness is coming to pass. Wade is not okay with it anymore.The JJ stuff seems likely as well- I'd love to see JJ finally go off to college in 2007 and go crazy because he no longer has to fit the pristine figure skating image. And he'd be 21. Everyone goes a little crazy at 21. I'd pay to see JJ do his first kegstand. LOL. I just hope JJ's 21st year doesn't have the same outcome that mine did. Ugh. *Meaningful look at Mark*

 

Anyway, I liked this chapter a lot because of how thoroughly 9th grade the chapter was. The bit about Mike Crawford leaving made me remember this girl who started high school with us at Cab Calloway School of the Arts. She only stayed a day or two- girl absolutely hated it. In retrospect, my guess was that the girl figured out the strong diva streak in the school and got out before she had to spend four years of high school dealing with bitchy diva types. And the stuff with Ryan with pretty cute and fun.

 

Before you guys dogpile on JJ, consider being a kid dealing with the fact that the one parent you're close to is going crazy, and the one good friend you have, you can't talk to anymore because you have to remain loyal to your mother. Some kids can be mature and empathetic, but a lot can't. That doesn't excuse his behavior, but it's also understandable why JJ is acting the way he is- he's hurting and freaked out, and he's only 14 and therefore doesn't have the emotional maturity or resources to figure out a better way than lashing out at his brother because he can't bring himself to put the blame on his mother.

Edited December 14, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Daddydavek]

Will and JJ each have their own set of issues, just larger than ordinary life, yet they argue and fight like any other siblings relatively close in age. The family dynamics are convoluted at best and now with Jeanine gripped in postpartum depression, JJ is in a funk and rightly so. Will is trying to figure things out and has more success than usual. His asking JJ's opinion about hospitalizing Jeanine was a masterful stroke worthy of a much more experienced person. However, Jeanine and Tiffany, are characters that I hope don't become central to the story.

[PrivateTim]

I know it was but that is what all those nasty Republicans would say given half the chance...

 

Actually we, the nasty Republicans, ran a gay man for Senator and despite his predilections for twinks, no one cared.

[centexhairysub]

Actually we, the nasty Republicans, ran a gay man for Senator and despite his predilections for twinks, no one cared.

 

Well, I think there is a wide gulf between a California republican and one from Virginia, the South, and especially Texas... I promise you that with a few exceptions, the republicans elected in California wouldn't make it out of a primary race anywhere down here... I have actually voted for a few republicans but have come to realize more and more that those in Texas are truly idiots, ie... Rick Perry, Gov. Good Hair... The level of viciousness in the Southern republican parties toward gays is on par with how they feel about Barak Obama, Osama Bin Laden, and Al Queda; they really believe they are all one and the same... This doesn't mean that there aren't gay elected officials in the South or Texas, just that they can never be honest about who they are, plus their is definitely a trophy wife and kids in the picture...

Edited December 15, 2011 by centexhairysub

[Canuk]

Just read Paternity 4. I really cannot cope with how these kids treat each other, their parents and any one else around them. They are all just so plain nasty. Perhaps this is how things are but even allowing for dramatisation, it just is not any reality I have ever encountered.

[methodwriter85]

Just read Paternity 4. I really cannot cope with how these kids treat each other, their parents and any one else around them. They are all just so plain nasty. Perhaps this is how things are but even allowing for dramatisation, it just is not any reality I have ever encountered.

 

Seriously? I grew up with three older sisters, and I thought the nastiness was spot-on. Especially the way JJ and Will interact- I have siblings who are only one year apart, and they used to go at it constantly. They wound up going to different high schools, which helped, but it could still get pretty nasty. There's no one except for a sibling that knows exactly where all of your biggest weaknesses because aside from your parents, no one else has known you for your entire life.

 

Here's one thing that you have to think about- Brad and Robbie's behavior in Millenium had consequences, and I think we've seeing a little bit of it now- Will loves his father, but he doesn't have the respect for Brad that he used to, and Brad is no longer on that pedestal for him. And in Millenium, it was made pretty clear that JJ is not all that close to either Brad or Robbie, so it's easy to see why he's being nasty.

[PrivateTim]

Just read Paternity 4. I really cannot cope with how these kids treat each other, their parents and any one else around them. They are all just so plain nasty. Perhaps this is how things are but even allowing for dramatisation, it just is not any reality I have ever encountered.

 

Oh hell Canuck, you need to get out of Darwin and come study behavior of affluent teens in Malibu, Beverly Hills, Hillsborough, Burlingame, etc and how they treat their parents and siblings. Hell you should see the 8 and 10 years old!

Edited December 15, 2011 by PrivateTim

[methodwriter85]

Oh hell Canuck, you need to get out of Darwin and come study behavior of affluent teens in Malibu, Beverly Hills, Hillsborough, Burlingame, etc and how they treat their parents and siblings. Hell you should see the 8 and 10 years old!

 

It's not even a rich people thing. This is a generation of American kids who were brought up constantly being told they were special combined with indulgent parenting, and the end result levels of narcissism are pretty astounding. I've heard so many horror stories about how Baby Boomers and Gen Xers are trying to deal the entry of Gen Y into the workplace- not going so pretty.

 

*Waits for Westie to scream at me for about how the Schluters and Cramptons are so avant-garde that generational values don't apply to them at all, even though the CAP saga was actually built on reflecting the mindset of the given period*

[PrivateTim]

Since the story (CAP) is shifting a bit back to Paly, will we see more of Claire & Jack? Wouldn't it be fun for John to show up a game with a girlfriend in tow, not knowing Will was going to be there?

 

What is the level of relationship with Matt & Wade and Jack & Claire? It would have to be considerable I'd think since I'd imagine that even if Matt & Wade live in the dorms or an off campus apartment, they'd be at Escorial every Sunday for a Sunday supper.