Paternity

[methodwriter85]

That pep talk in a mirror? Obnoxious and really oblivious to reality. $$$ don't buy class and I've seen THAT way too many times in real life.

 

I wish that Tonto could have caught Darius during one of his mirror pep talks. You know for damn sure that Darius's viewpoint that he can get into any kind of trouble that he wants and his family would bail him out would NOT sit well with her. I'm hoping that was mainly just teenage bravado and he doesn't really think like that, but damn- it doesn't seem like the Crampton/Schluter mode of social responsibility and noblesse oblige has resonated with Darius yet. You could make the argument that with Anapolis stuff, but as Tim said, I think that was more to do with wanting to stay around with Ella than actual generousity.

 

As for the Danfield stuff, I really enjoyed getting to know his creepy Southern Gothic family. I'm hoping we'll meet Beau's black girlfriend and see all the barely veiled racist comments she'll get from the lovely Aunt Emmeline. And, of course, Nana= Doris Duke. I kind of figure that the Danfields are supposed to be a stand-in for the Duke's. It'd be funny if there was a "Danfield University" somewhere in CAP-world, where the hijinks of their lacrosse players get the school into trouble regularly.

 

It will be interesting if any of the characters from this chapter, Travis, Trevor or Beau have significance in future books.

 

I can't see Beau ever having that much of a significance because he's been written as being totally straight (and therefore not lilkely to end up with a male member of CAP), but you never know with Travis and Trevor. I figure at the very least Will is probably going to hook up with Travis and Trevor because we all know how our little piece of jailbait likes his inapropriately-aged mancandy. As for Beau, his main function seems to be serving as the Golden Son that somehow manages to stay out of the evil doings of his family because he's like a docile golden retriever. I think it works well, and it kind of reminds me of what my sister said about how you need to have at least 3 children- because one sibling will always function as the peacekeeper whenever the other two siblings are warring with each other. Beau serves as the peacekeeper between Wade and MaryEllen.

 

In any event, I like the rise of the Danfields in CAP- because a good soap opera always needs a rival family. The Hendricksons don't exactly work anymore because they're generally stuck in Ohio and the profiles of the Cramptons/Schluters have raised so much that they need a continential, hugely powerful rival. The Danfields serve that function well.

Edited November 4, 2012 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

The immediate question I had was, how reliable are Nana's mental abilities? Even if Elizabeth is clearly part crocodile, that doesn't necessarily mean Nana doesn't have problems of her own. She could, for instance, believe her son to still be alive. She could be a real danger to herself or possibly even others, as well as being a victim of her daughter's greed at the same time.

 

So, this could be a simple example of elder abuse, this could also be a situation where there's no clear answer. Elizabeth might not be the ultimate cause of her mother's breakdown, or even her continued debilitation. But it would not be in Elizabeth's makeup to not attempt to wring fullest advantage of the situation when it arose. The character as presented literally could not resist that temptation, doubtless wouldn't even see the point in trying. She might even convince herself it's the responsible thing to do; after all, if she doesn't take control, somone else will. Granted, she doesn't have to take complete control by drugging her own mother, but that's just details.

[Mark Arbour]

I wish that Tonto could have caught Darius during one of his mirror pep talks. You know for damn sure that Darius's viewpoint that he can get into any kind of trouble that he wants and his family would bail him out would NOT sit well with her. I'm hoping that was mainly just teenage bravado and he doesn't really think like that, but damn- it doesn't seem like the Crampton/Schluter mode of social responsibility and noblesse oblige has resonated with Darius yet. You could make the argument that with Anapolis stuff, but as Tim said, I think that was more to do with wanting to stay around with Ella than actual generousity.

 

 

You miss the whole point of the "mirror talk." First of all, I don't know any guys who really do this, but it was a fun way to set Will up to be embarrassed as hell, and to get him laid. Not that it's a big challenge to do that anyway. As I wrote it, though, it's not that these guys are saying this stuff because they're egomaniacs who really believe it, they're saying it to prop up their fragile male egos and to give themselves a confidence boost before going out and dealing with their peer group. The key to the whole rationale was Darius noting that it usually got him through the night before he woke up the next day to reality.

[Mark Arbour]

The immediate question I had was, how reliable are Nana's mental abilities? Even if Elizabeth is clearly part crocodile, that doesn't necessarily mean Nana doesn't have problems of her own. She could, for instance, believe her son to still be alive. She could be a real danger to herself or possibly even others, as well as being a victim of her daughter's greed at the same time.

 

So, this could be a simple example of elder abuse, this could also be a situation where there's no clear answer. Elizabeth might not be the ultimate cause of her mother's breakdown, or even her continued debilitation. But it would not be in Elizabeth's makeup to not attempt to wring fullest advantage of the situation when it arose. The character as presented literally could not resist that temptation, doubtless wouldn't even see the point in trying. She might even convince herself it's the responsible thing to do; after all, if she doesn't take control, somone else will. Granted, she doesn't have to take complete control by drugging her own mother, but that's just details.

 

I love your posts.

[rjo]

Honestly I've been into George saga the last few chapters I forgot how fun Wade can be. I some ways Will and Wade are alike. Wade has learned things are not always black and white, Will hasn't yet. But in the important things like character they both stand for something. The other thing that is why is someone druging dear grandma? Elizabeth did something her mother found out about? My evil thought is that Elizabeth had her own brother killed and grandma found out about it. What do you think about that? Gay brother don't play well in DC. Not in Elizabeth's twisited mind.

[Mark Arbour]

Honestly I've been into George saga the last few chapters I forgot how fun Wade can be. I some ways Will and Wade are alike. Wade has learned things are not always black and white, Will hasn't yet. But in the important things like character they both stand for something. The other thing that is why is someone druging dear grandma? Elizabeth did something her mother found out about? My evil thought is that Elizabeth had her own brother killed and grandma found out about it. What do you think about that? Gay brother don't play well in DC. Not in Elizabeth's twisited mind.

 

I don't think she's so evil that she's actually had a family member murdered. Beaten up, yes. Murdered? Hopefully not.

[methodwriter85]

Murder doesn't seem like Elizabeth's style- blackmail and the threat of ruination is more how she controls people.

 

I thought ABC was supposed to be a contrast to Elizabeth in Millenium- both are evil, but Alexandra was on a level of evil that even Elizabeth wouldn't go to. I'd doubt that Alexandra would think twice about killing either of her two sons if she thought it would serve as a means to an end. Elizabeth is a narcissist, while I would imagine Alexandra is a sociopath.

 

Some points that Mark's made in reviews:

 

If I was Wade, I think I may never go back to Virginia, but then again, he's very into his heritage, and that's a huge part of it. It must be quite a conflict for him.

It's like the Gone With the Wind deal, where Scarlett's dad tells her that the land is a part of her and she is a part of a land. It's not something Wade can ever really escape- that Virginia soil runs deep in his veins.

 

There's been a parallel to that with JP and Stefan's plans to save Claremont- even though both really have no reason to ever come back, they can't really stay away from the place forever because that town and the heritage the town represents is a huge part of who they are. Same goes with Gathan Hayes. Not so sure yet about the others in Will's generation, although if JJ's smart he could totally play up the humble Ohio roots in his Olympic profile to appeal to Middle America.

 

I was a military brat who was then raised in the souless suburbs of "Corporations Rule!" Delaware, so that's pretty cool to me- land here is pretty much only sacred until someone decides it's time to build the latest shopping center or cookie-cutter housing development.

 

I think that Will is just a fun interlude for Jeff, and vice-versa, but I think that Jeff had developed a very real thing for Wade.

Agreed. I kind of like that about Will and Jeff- they're friends with benefits who just have fun, sans the major teen angst that Will really indulged in during PMS.

 

They need all those nurses to make sure that Riley has the best care possible, and so his parents can go and drink and socialize and not be bothered with changing diapers and the like. At least that's what Elizabeth would think. I think Tiffany views things differently.

Kids are a lot of work, and although there's three parents, two of those parents are in college. Plus, both Matt and Wade came from the kind of background where fathers didn't do things like change diapers- I'd be shocked if Matt didn't have a nanny where he was a kid, too. I think Tiffany would have a more modern, involved view of parenthood, but right now she's just trying to get Riley through his first year. I also think that because it's been heavily hinted that Tiffany has her own money and isn't dependent like Jeanine was, it won't be so easy to bulldoze over her and treat her like glorfied help the way Brad did to Jeanine. So I'm sure Tiffany will eventually lay down the law with Matt and Wade in regards to her expectations for them as fathers; now's just not the time to do that.

Edited November 5, 2012 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

Changing diapers is like flying commerical..... once you've been there (someone else changing diapers and flying private) you can never go back.....

[B1ue]

I also think that because it's been heavily hinted that Tiffany has her own money and isn't dependent like Jeanine was, it won't be so easy to bulldoze over her and treat her like glorfied help the way Brad did to Jeanine.

Mind, Jeanine really was the help. And Will's mother, but there's a defined employee-employer relationship dynamic.

[methodwriter85]

Hey, over in the CA Culture thread, we're discussing whether or not Mark is getting the social environment of Menlo School right. I thought Tim made some interesting points:

 

More out of character (but I understand you need protagonists to move the story) is the fact that Carter is a water polo player and the captain. Water polo isn't like football, the athletes are more chill, don't take themselves too seriously and the captain especially is that guy that gets along with everyone.

 

I am not saying there are no asses in WP but they are the exception not the rule and I've seen far more football players behaving like Carter than water polo players. Jack Bowen at Menlo really wouldn't put up Carter's behavior. It is antithetical to his philosophy and the way he runs his program.

 

You got any thoughts about this, Mark?

 

As for Carter, maybe it's more of what he's like when he's drunk, as opposed to what he's like when he's actually leading the team. People can be pretty two-faced, especially in high school. I've met people who can be so nice and then flip at the turn of a dime into a total asshole.

 

There was this feel of "Mean Boys" that didn't seem to jibe with what I've read and heard about the school- there are cliques like there are at every school, but downright nastiness doesn't seem to be a characteristic at the real Menlo. They base their curriculum around small, group-based discussions like a college seminar, which means that it's a lot harder to hide nasty, bullying behavior than it would be at a normal public school.

 

But then again, we haven't actually hit the Menlo part of the story, just met a few kids who go there that might not be necessarily what the school is actually like. We had a group of bitchy junior girls at my school that were basically like the Plastics, but in general my school was pretty laidback.

 

As for sports, the school that I played for didn't have water polo...we had lacrosse players, who generally tended to be the snobs. Football players were actually the nicest guys I knew; baseball and wrestlers were just weird, and the soccer/track/cross-country people tended to be the laidback, chill guys.

Edited November 8, 2012 by methodwriter85

[sat8997]

I vote for Will getting his G.E.D. Otherwise, I'll just end up shooting myself when I'm forced to listen to the in-depth discussion on whether his first period should be upstairs or downstairs.

 

Have a lovely day.

[methodwriter85]

Honestly, Will does strike me as someone that would get his GED and then go to college early. But Mark chose to send Will off to Menlo, so eh.

 

I don't think you can test for a GED until you're at least 15, so that would mean Will would have to at least stay in high school until sophomore year.

 

Of course, Mark might hold off on using Will as a protagonist again until Will's in college circa 2004, but I wouldn't count on that. I'm getting the strong feeling we're going to see the bulk of this generation's high school years(as opposed to only seeing Brad's and Matt's senior year of high school), unless there are some time jumps/other protagonists in the works here.

Edited November 8, 2012 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

As an alternative to Sharon shooting herself, perhaps Mark can at the last moment send Will to, I don't know, Benlo School. Somewhat like Menlo school, but someplace he's completely free to make up the details about.

[methodwriter85]

Nah, part of the fun in what Mark does is the attention that goes into recreating the mindset of an actual time and place. The Harvard-Westlake research was so much fun.

 

Anyway, since we're talking Will's homeroom, I thought I'd share Will's academic schedule. It's as close to his HW schedule as I could get it, but I had to change some things according to the differences in curriculum at Menlo.

 

*English 1

 

*World Religions (Will could make some comment about having to be forced to take a class about religion, but I'm not sure if he's as atheist as Brad is)

 

*Honors Analytic Geometry and Algebra (we know Will's strong in math)

 

*Physics (that'll be a big difference from taking Honors Bio, but he should be fine)

 

*Art (Will could also take moviemaking, which I could see him being interested in)

 

*French II(I think that was what Will was already taking at HW)

 

There's also this really cool program, called the Knight School , where the academic schedule is suspended for one week each year so that students can take part in a week-long intensive hands-on learning in an area of their choice. There's even a service trip to Botswanna, which could be really cool for Will and open his eyes up about what actual poverty looks like. But my guess would be that's an upperclassman trip, but I could be wrong. How cool would it be for Will to travel to Africa? I think that's one place that we've never seen in CAP.

 

*Okay, so the reason why I set up a schedule for Will is that I'm a stickler for continuity, and also- does anyone remember the show Gilmore Girls? People bitched so much about how they were never consistant about what classes Rory was taking at Chilton.So I thought it would be fun, and helpful to Mark, if we had that all settled out with a little research work.

Edited November 9, 2012 by methodwriter85

[methodwriter85]

wrong thread, please delete this post

Edited November 10, 2012 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

I just wanted to let you know that I don't currently have a chapter ready to post, and I feel really bad about that, since the last one was a cliffhanger. Here's the way my mind works: I tend to get into a storyline and roll with it, and that usually has me shifting from story to story, where I'm knocking out a few chapters then switching back. I had most of the next chapter of Paternity done, then a computer glitch erased it. That was pretty demotivating, so I switched over to Odyssey and worked on that for a bit.

 

So I'm sorry, about that, and I'll do my best to get another chapter out as soon as the muse hits.

[eboxter69]

Thanks for keeping up to date Mark.

[PrivateTim]

Back up early and often......

[MJ85]

From the chapter:

 

“Wade, just so you know, if she’s ruled as being competent, she could technically regain control of at least half your money, and possibly all of it.”

Yes, because Wade would really have to worry about his grandmother yanking money away from the grandson who had her rescued...

[methodwriter85]

If that did happen, it would be hilarious if Nana turned out to be as evil as her daughter is- but just much better at hiding it. I mean, Elizabeth did have to get it from somewhere.

[Mark Arbour]

Then he'd only have $250 million. I think he'd survive just fine.

[BeysJoshersLepton V2]

I loved the thanksgiving dinner scene. ^^

[Gene Splicer PHD]

Yeah that had to be a dinner. Wonder how anyone had an appetite after all that

[methodwriter85]

So, here's what I'm curious about- exactly how wealthy are the Danfields supposed to be? If they've got 500 million dollar trust funds per child, they've got to be hugely wealthy. The Cramptons and the Schluters are supposed to be billionaries, but the Danfields have to be billionaires with a capital B.

 

Of course, the Danfield wealth is also a lot more concentrated than the Crampton/Schluter wealth because the CAPers give out 5 million dollar trust funds to people they even just care about(not to mention all the damn children), but the implication has been throughout that the Danfields are actually on a higher level than even the Cramptons/Schluters are. That's gotta be like oil, Bush-family level wealth.

 

I love that Mark set up the rival family as being this internationally influential family that is even more powerful than the Cramptons/Schluters are, but of course much, much more dysfunctional.

 

Finally, I loved the dinner talk, with one of the cousins talking about how hot it would be for MaryEllen to be with another woman. That's a great example of the generation divide. I remember back when Mark was writing Be Rad, I asked him why there weren't girls kissing each other in the party scenes to turn on guys, and he replied that girls didn't make out with each other at parties in 1980. But that's completely a different story by the time you get to the early 2000's, when attitudes were more relaxed about that kind of thing. Adam Phillips(of Cross-Currents fames), who's contemporaries with Wade and Matt, confirmed that girls were doing that at parties to get the guys going back in the late '90s.

 

Around the mid-2000's, it became a thing for emo guys to make out with each other at parties and then post videos of it on YouTube, but we're getting ahead of ourselves here.

[Canuk]

I find it amazing and truly interesting that at parties I went to in 2000 girls kissing to turn blokes on did not reach my radar....I wonder why?????