A Note to the Critics

[Bill W]

I’d like to share a word or two with the critics out there. First and foremost, those of us who post on this site are not professionals, do not do this for a living and receive no remuneration for all the time and effort we put into our stories. We do it to offer something to the gay community and I’m sorry if my, or anyone else’s, efforts don’t meet up to you’re your ‘high’ standards.

 

I’m mostly worried about the younger writers whom you may attack and turn off to sharing their talents. Therefore, I will offer a word of advice. If you have something nice to say about their work, then please feel free to do it in a public forum, even a review. However, if you have a more critical view of their work, share that in a PM or email – do not put it out for public display.

 

I’ve never had any illusions about my own personal talents and that is why I’ve never offered writing suggestions or mentoring advice. I knew I had limitations and did not profess to be an award winning author, however I offered my stories in hopes that they might help others work through uncertain situations or give them hope for a brighter future.

 

I hope the stories I have written offer at least some positive focus on issues, but I no longer possess the fire necessary to do this any longer and will make no further submissions to this site. Please, if you get anything from my message, it is that I beg you not to extinguish the fires of those who might still have something to offer to the GA community.

[W_L]

Bill, I never thought you were an attack target (If you want a guard dog, I am more than willing to oblige )

 

Seriously though, you are a great writer and I have been following your stories, since High school. You are as much a part of my youth as my present. I am not a noted writer, nor am I seeking to be one. For me, writing is a way to explore myself and the world, there maybe things people won't agree with me on, there might be things people will fight over, but in the end, I think the story is important.

 

You, Brew Maxwell, and a couple others that I started reading from nifty, cryboy, Jeff's Fort, and other sites were important and made a difference. Don't ever forget that. We're not writing for a popularity contests (Though I was surprised by the length of our stories in the same genre ).

 

I might not write in the same style as you or a majority of GA, but I love everyone's stories, no matter how bad the grammar is or how problematic the spelling becomes as long as the plot and characters make sense to me. If I don't like your story, then I merely stay away from it.

[Toast]

Hey Bill, please republish your story here. I am still reading the anthology and I want to read all of them. What makes GA wonderful is all our efforts. Don't pull back now, please continue.

[Johnathan Colourfield]

I can only utter the same sentiments that have been said before. Bill you are an excellent writer and don't leave writing just because of some fools.

 

In my opinion, if criticism isnt constructive then whats the point in being totally negative? I understand if it is an editor saying it to a writer but otherwise its no go area.

 

I can also repeat what Bill said. We are not professionals; not many authors on the site make money from what they write. They do it for the passion and intensity that writing can bring. If you scathe them, then they lose the passion and they stop writing all together and that is something NO writer should ever have to face. For example, in a book i'm reading at the moment (about publishing books), this lady had an eye condition but she still produced over a million words in one year. Its amazing how some people get through their issues.

 

My only request is think before you post a review Will it offend the author? Or will it help them? Help is always the best option

 

We are a community of writers here to help and be there for each other.

 

Hope i didn't ramble...

[Graeme]

Bill's given some good advice for reviewers. I accept that it can be hard at times to work out what to say and how to say it, but an old rule for managers is to praise in public and criticise in private. It works in the workplace and it works here, too

[Krista]

As authors we would do well to take the praise and critics in the same breath. I do agree though, that overly critical response to an author, especially one trying something new, should be done privately and with some restraint. Keep in mind that saying, "Wow this really sucks.." or.. "You're lazy and looking for any excuse to end a story..." or something like that, isn't criticism... its bitching..

[Mark Arbour]

I think a lot of it is in the tone of the critique. Personally, I find really nasty comments to be demotivating. They make me sit back and ponder other uses for my time, other uses that would be more appreciated. As Bill pointed out, we do this for free, and there's really no upside beyond hoping you've had a positive impact on your readers' lives.

 

Genuine observations and critiques, on the other hand, are just the opposite. Sometimes I'll read them and think one or more of the following:

 

1. You don't get where I'm going with this. Just hang in there and it will make sense.

2. Wow. You're right. I fucked that up. Usually this involves character consistency.

3. Man, I didn't write that very well at all. The readers didn't understand what I was trying to say.

4. Your comments are interesting, but you're looking at things through your own lens so tightly, you're not seeing what the characters are seeing. This is most common in generational issues.

 

Regardless, that kind of feedback helps me keep my finger on the pulse of a story. There have been many times when I've drafted several chapters ahead, and I go back and revise them to address issues readers have raised.

[K.C.]

I believe that people are more likely to say something negative when they have the comfort of hidding behind their computer screen.

 

I look at it as this: I wouldn't say something that would be hurtful to one of my friends in a room full of people no matter how true it was. Nobody wants to be embarrassed like that. If you have something to say, that you don't know how they are going to take it, then say it in private. PM them. Everyone one of us has feeling and nobody wants to have then hurt, expecially in a public forum. Even those with the toughest skin can still bruise.

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Bill,

 

If this is indeed your swan song, I'm saddened by the news. Hopefully you'll rekindle your fire some day and feel the need to write again and then share with everyone else.

 

I fear I am more in the camp with Krista - please don't faint dear, you know I love you. I've gotten some angry public criticism, some of which was right on the money - some I ignored. But the point is - if you put your work out there AND ask for feed back, and almost everyone does ask for the feed back, you have to expect it won't all be great. I think - again agreeing with Kirsta - that bitching is not welcome at all, either in public or in a PM, but telling people you're characters are flat, or you're head hoping, or your confusing us because - and explaining why - this is not negative feed back as much as constructive criticism.

 

Yes this is a free site where no one gets paid to share, but it would be silly to say - 'Positive Reviews only, I don't want to hear anything critical, even if it's right.' That's kind of like the Emperor Has No Clothes. The vast, vast majority of writers here. came to not only share but to improve. I could name a half dozen authors easily whose work HAS gotten markedly better over the short time I've been here. In fact I was told this in a review left for me by someone I rather like.

 

My main point is that if all one should do is say positive things in reviews and only give the critical one in private - how does that help the community at large? If someone comes on the site, reads a story rife with novel writing no - nos and all they see is, 'This is great,' 'you're so talented,' 'this is the best thing since sliced bread,' when they think the story is trite, banal, needs work, seriously needs an editor, etc, what are the odds said author would stick around?

 

But I think you last point is well taken - anything that quenches the fire of young and new writers is to be discouraged. The trick I suppose is finding in advance which authors truly want to learn and those who give lip service to it and only want to here platitudes and praise.

 

If you have indeed posted your last story, then I would like to say thank you and may good fortune smile on you with whatever is next for you.

 

Andy

[Bill W]

To Andy and Krista, it wasn't just the negativity of the review that I was reacting to. Trust me, over the years I've had many harsh and negative reviews of my work and have been laid out on more than one occasion. This time, however, the attack seemed to be more personal. I have commented to others in personal correspondence that there were some valid points made, but I also felt a personal attack on not only myself, but also on my editor. Yes, believe it or not I did use one.

 

I have reacted to criticisms in the past and tried to improve my work in the process, such as taking all of the notes from readers on my first version of The Castaway Hotel and rewriting it into The Castaway Hotel: Grand Reopening. I learned and profited from their advice, but at no time did I ever feel the personal animosity and demeaning attitude than with this review. I certainly don't expect all reviews to be positive and know my talents are extremely limited, but I felt this particular review was over the line. I'm sorry if some of you don't agree, but that was my the impression I got.

[Lugh]

it was.

And I agree reviews of that nature should not be allowed to exist.

Want me to go beat on the poster?

What can I do to make you feel better Bill?

Cause this.... this... I don't know what this is... but it hurts me.

And you not posting hurts everyone.

And I don't like it.

[Marzipan]

Hey Bill,

 

please don't let this be the end of it.

 

I have enormous respect to you entire work. Please don't stop posting. I would like to see something good following from this (not a public lynching of the neg critter, like I wouldn't mind doing right now ) but where you started the discussion about respectful and supportive criticism is a start. I thank you for bringing this issue up, but please don't let this be the end of your stories.

 

I wish you will just re-spark and see that the MAJORITY of GA would just break their hearts if you give up.

 

Sincerily,

 

Maria

[Bill W]

I appreciate everyone's concern, but enough attention has been drawn to me. I'm a big boy and will get over this and I wasn't trying to start a pity party. My intent with this topic was to get people to think before they speak, or in this case write. Things can be worded in a way that will produce positive results, even if it is criticism, but I want everyone to ensure that it doesn't take the form of a personal attack or vendetta on the recipient. I don't want to see potential talent to be discouraged by such vitriol. Enough said, and let's let this discussion die a natural death.

[colinian]

There's a subtext in what Bill experienced and that is, if he'd received ten good reviews the negative personal attack review might have been sluffed off by Bill with a "What a dork!" response. Writers need positive reviews as well as helpful critical reviews, and too often readers who enjoyed a story go on to read something else instead of taking the time to write a review, even if it's short. If a reader doesn't have time to write a review, click the Like symbol on a story. Something as simple as that will help the author.

 

I sure hope Bill sticks around. Vitriol can be washed off like the mud that it is and eventually forgotten. Reading the positive comments in this topic should let Bill know that what he writes is appreciated. I hope he rethinks leaving and gives GA another try. How about it, Bill?

 

Colin

[W_L]

There's a subtext in what Bill experienced and that is, if he'd received ten good reviews the negative personal attack review might have been sluffed off by Bill with a "What a dork!" response. Writers need positive reviews as well as helpful critical reviews, and too often readers who enjoyed a story go on to read something else instead of taking the time to write a review, even if it's short. If a reader doesn't have time to write a review, click the Like symbol on a story. Something as simple as that will help the author.

 

I sure hope Bill sticks around. Vitriol can be washed off like the mud that it is and eventually forgotten. Reading the positive comments in this topic should let Bill know that what he writes is appreciated. I hope he rethinks leaving and gives GA another try. How about it, Bill?

 

Colin

 

Your right, one person who reviewed my anthology story with glowing reviews also did send me a PM about an issue they didn't understand in the story. I pointed them to an answer on why certain elements seem to be hanging in the story (they were actually references into my universe and other stories, which are more future developments). Sometimes, writers have different styles and some like me use reference within their stories to foreshadow future events or acknowledge canon within their stories, i.e. in Babylon 5, Harlan Ellison actually took a few ideas from his early Outer Limits' stories and JMS allowed for the merger of certain areas as canon.

 

We all have a different type of style and not everyone will universally love it or pan us for it.

 

However, outright attacks on writers, who offer their hard work with no compensation for your pleasure is not justified. I respect criticism, but a writer is not a personal pinata. Perhaps, somewhere as we changed, GA lost that respect between writers and readers, servers of fact and fiction and patrons of their work.

 

One thing that has come to my attention is that we've gotten further away from the stories as people and their personalities have become edified. So many members no longer think about the world through a set of questioning eyes and imagination.

[Krista]

Yes, there is no place for personal attacks.

[Andy78]

I only recently found GA, but I have been very impressed with the stories on here that I have read so far. Some of them I've laughed over they have been so funny whilst others I have wept over, and I've always left reviews - once I've finished drying my eyes.

 

I started reading on Nifty a number of years ago, but got fed up with the ridiculous unrealistic and seriously overused sex scenes. Far too many of the stories focused on the sex, leaving out the emotions, the story and the people. I know sex is a natural part of life, but what has really impressed me with the stories I have read on here is that the authors know it is just that, a part of life.

 

I'd really hate for you or anyone else to give up on something you love doing. I was always told in school that one negative remark makes you forget ten positive remarks. It almost makes me rethink my plans to start posting my own story next year.

[Lugh]

I only recently found GA, but I have been very impressed with the stories on here that I have read so far. Some of them I've laughed over they have been so funny whilst others I have wept over, and I've always left reviews - once I've finished drying my eyes.

 

I started reading on Nifty a number of years ago, but got fed up with the ridiculous unrealistic and seriously overused sex scenes. Far too many of the stories focused on the sex, leaving out the emotions, the story and the people. I know sex is a natural part of life, but what has really impressed me with the stories I have read on here is that the authors know it is just that, a part of life.

 

I'd really hate for you or anyone else to give up on something you love doing. I was always told in school that one negative remark makes you forget ten positive remarks. It almost makes me rethink my plans to start posting my own story next year.

 

Andy,

 

Don't let one bad apple spoil the bushel. Post the story.

[Bill W]

Yes, Andy, I've appreciated your comments and I'm sure others have too. We'd also love to see what you have to post as well.

[Andy78]

Thanks for the kind words guys. I've decided to post the story. Have just submitted the first chapter - pending modertator review. Oh dear God! What have I done?!

 

Update 19:45 - oh my God, it's live.

Edited December 27, 2011 by andy021278