Authoritative book on punctuation?

[Hasimir Fenrig]

I'm looking for an authoritative book on punctuation (esp. commas).

I scanned the pinned post of book recommendations but didn't find what I'm looking for.

 

I always thought I knew most of the rules, but I was quite wrong about this.

 

I've bought three grammar books on amazon over the last weekend, and still I'm none the wiser regarding reliable rules for punctuation (that's an exaggeration, but you get the gist). Oh... one thing I've learned: English punctuation seems to be a religion, but not a science. For many rules, you'll find different ... let's say... exegeses. What one book deems absolutely necessary, the next one discards as wrong or unusual. As a non-native speaker (and mathematician ), it's quite disturbing; I want a punctuation algorithm!

I never thought I'd ever say this, but German is a comma heaven in comparison: not a main clause -> comma. Comma...uhh...Period! No 'guessing' whether the information is essential to the sentence or not; no 'scrying' whether I'm talking about strong contrast.

 

If you have any suggestion for a quality source on this topic, I'd be grateful.

 

P.S.: Excuse my little ramble. I love English more than any other language (incl. cumbersome German), but no other language can drive me mad like it.

[Andy78]

The one I've found most useful is The Oxford A-Z of Grammar and Punctuation - currently selling on Amazon for around €5. There are far more expensive guides produced by Oxford, but this one is very user friendly and an excellent starting point.

 

There are differences in punctuation guides produced in the UK and US (which is where I think you may be getting the conflicting advice from), but I've always found anything produced by Oxford will be definitive for UK English grammar and punctuation.

[Hasimir Fenrig]

That's actually one of the books I got.

 

I do like the style of the Blue Book of Grammar (distinct, numbered rules - a mathematician's heaven), but it seems a little 'incomplete'.

 

Perhaps a little more background:

I got the second edit of 'Dumb'/'Perception' back yesterday evening. While waiting for it, I had removed some of the commas the editor left in. Now, I'm trying to rationalize her choices for myself, but sometimes it's just: 'Why, oh you deceitful grammar gods, WHY?' (a little less drama, actually, but that's how I feel at times).

[colinian]

Have you looked at Lynne Truss's book Eats, Shoots & Leaves? There are separate UK and US versions, and your local Amazon will carry the one that's country-appropriate.. It's humorous, and parts are tongue-firmly-in-cheek.

 

Colin

[Hasimir Fenrig]

I've bought it as an ebook and will take a look. The reviews on amazon.de were quite mixed, but I liked the sample chapter. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

 

I've ordered "Elements of Style" as a paperback, too. It may be a little dated, but better dated than wrong.

[Former Member]

I've been in search of this as well. Maybe all of us GA Authors and Editors should collectively assemble a GA Guide to punctuation. Or has this already been done?

[Andy78]

Squid, to the best of my knowledge it hasn't.  It does sound interesting, but it comes with a few problem areas.

 

One issue would be the number of people on site who are actually confident enough with some of the finer nuances of grammar/punctuation.  I know plenty of people who are confident enough when it comes to punctuation of speech tags since the rules (once learned) are fairly straight forward and universal; it's when it comes to the more obscure areas that are open to interpretation, such as the use of hyphens and semicolons, that many writers become more unsure.

 

Another issue is that there are also occasional differences between US and UK punctuation guides.  I have come across grammar/punctuation suggestions in US guides that I would never dream of using, because they just don't tally with what I have always used and learned in school.  There are even disagreements between punctuation guides from the same country; with more modern guides being far less strict than traditional guides.

 

As an example, UK style guides still advocate two spaces after a period, whereas US guides go with the more modern use of only one space after a period - I won't go into the reasons for this, but in the UK we have always used two spaces after a period (even in media and professional articles).  There are also some guides which advocate not using semicolons or dashes inside speech marks - except to indicate where a speaker is suddenly cut-off mid-sentence.

 

A third issue is who would have the final say on any disagreements?  Unless we have anyone on site with an English language degree, I'm not sure that there is anyone who would truly be able to say that they know enough to be able to overrule someone - especially if it is on one of the US/UK differences in style.

 

But hey, if we are able to find a way to overcome these problems, I'll help with compiling one.

[Libby Drew]

While waiting for it, I had removed some of the commas the editor left in. Now, I'm trying to rationalize her choices for myself.

 

Absolutely ask her. Get the issue clarified. Your editor is accountable to you about the validity of her suggestions. 

 

I've ordered "Elements of Style" as a paperback, too. It may be a little dated, but better dated than wrong.

 

I'll admit it. I'm an "Elements of Style" girl.

 

Another issue is that there are also occasional differences between US and UK punctuation guides.  I have come across grammar/punctuation suggestions in US guides that I would never dream of using, because they just don't tally with what I have always used and learned in school.  There are even disagreements between punctuation guides from the same country; with more modern guides being far less strict than traditional guides.

 

As an example, UK style guides still advocate two spaces after a period, whereas US guides go with the more modern use of only one space after a period - I won't go into the reasons for this, but in the UK we have always used two spaces after a period (even in media and professional articles).  There are also some guides which advocate not using semicolons or dashes inside speech marks - except to indicate where a speaker is suddenly cut-off mid-sentence.

 

An enthusiastic 'yes' to all of this. Some rules are steadfast (for English, US and UK), others are not. In my experience (in regards to English), a writer's best bet is usually to educate themselves on universal punctuation rules--which you seem to have done--then pick and stick to one style or guide. Be consistent. There is no mathematical equation that covers all examples, sadly.

 

The Chicago Manual of Style is always a good choice if you're thinking of seeking publication.

 

Andy's very right. Many grammar guides used by publishers, periodicals, and newspapers (their "house style" guides) do not use semicolons or emdashes in speech. Some use the Oxford comma, others don't. Frustrating, but inescapable. I wish I had better advice, but this is it: Teach yourself to be consistent.

 

Good luck!

[The Pecman]

Many grammar guides used by publishers, periodicals, and newspapers (their "house style" guides) do not use semicolons or emdashes in speech. Some use the Oxford comma, others don't. Frustrating, but inescapable. I wish I had better advice, but this is it: Teach yourself to be consistent.

 

Yeah, I think that's the key. I'm a big Oxford Comma guy:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma

 

And yet, I've seen quite a few books on writing that steadfastly warn against the perils of using semi-colons. (I think there's a famous book that warns, "The road to hell is paved with semicolons," but I can't for the life of me remember the title.) I keep them to an absolute minimum. 

 

I'm baffled by the number of published books out there that eschew standard rules of style, particularly with run-on sentences. I think a lot of this stuff is kind of falling by the wayside, due to cutbacks at publishing companies and the dearth of good proofreaders.