old bob Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 GA has a particularity hard to understand for foreigners who do not have the American mentality. Some of the authors tend to see themselves as cowboys ready to draw their guns when they feel attacked. I remember a battle a few years ago about Katrina, which caused the departure of several authors. By following the various posts and blogs about 'Arrogant Prick' and the departure of dkstories, I find there again the same extreme attitude on one side and the naive astonishment of the other side. Without wishing to intervene or participate in this debate, I find it pity that it is no longer possible to read the old stories of DK, for example the Do Over saga. Americans are the citizen of a young nation. Their mentality is that of fighters. This is an aspect of their strength, that we, Europeans with an History of 20 centuries, admire.deeply. Too bad that it leads to the departure of authors who have made the reputation of GA. 1
Celethiel Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 Wrong.... you have it wrong.... just because Europe's eldest Kingdoms are 2,000 years old (at most...and that being France) does not mean much to their mentality.... What matters is the Environment that their Culture is raised in... American Culture Especially in the Western parts of America have to do with Cowboys... (an idea i despise :I I don't especially like the Cowboy mentality.) However American Culture goes much longer then just White men in America and is pretty much as old as Europes.... the American Idians for instance have a very very long culture. the Eastern Part had to do with the Civil War it's period, the Revolution and so on... America is essentually the Cultural Revolutionary. It's history is filled with those who Seperate themselves from other governments and their own, that is the thing of the original Cowboy, or the Fur Trapper and so on. The Image of the Line Rider alone among the cattle Herd is a very powerful one. Europe it's history is filled with High Culture, and the Slavery and Oppression of it's own people by the Rulers of those nations for 1900 years. People see at least from my view Europe as a land of old Castles, kings, nobility, rich food and people who are contrasted by the very poor under them. Kind of like Japan's Culture being filled with the thoughts of Honor and the Samurai... to which i admire the first part... I have no active knowledge of the European peoples mentality, however from what i see, i'd assume they're younger then America, as many of the people of their countries people have only experienced freedom of expression within the last 30 years, and the Eldest only in the 1800's. However G.A. is filled mostly with those under 30, and thusly Young men tend to rage and strike back faster then those who are older, whom are more Caclulated in their mentality, And Partisian Views tend to come about very often with the younger who have more firey tempers. I actually find it sad whenever a story is no longer accessable by me in any forum or otherwise, whether the Written forum, or online. And there has been quite a few.
old bob Posted May 3, 2012 Author Posted May 3, 2012 I have no active knowledge of the European peoples mentality, however from what i see, i'd assume they're younger then America, as many of the people of their countries people have only experienced freedom of expression within the last 30 years, and the Eldest only in the 1800's.My and your opinion about European peoples mentality is not so important in this topic. I just want to say that you are wrong about our freedom of expression. I live in a country with democratic rules since 1291, since more than 7 centuries : Switzerland. In other Western European countries - UK, France, Germany, Flanders- people fought for their freedom of expression since the 17th century. But that doesnt matter in this topic !
Celethiel Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 My and your opinion about European peoples mentality is not so important in this topic. I just want to say that you are wrong about our freedom of expression. I live in a country with democratic rules since 1291, since more than 7 centuries : Switzerland. In other Western European countries - UK, France, Germany, Flanders- people fought for their freedom of expression since the 17th century. But that doesnt matter in this topic ! Agreed and you're right of course... I have a friend in Switzerland, It's more expensive there then It is here O.O and cooler... in every sense of the word... 1
NaperVic Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 (edited) I find it pity that it is no longer possible to read the old stories of DK, for example the Do Over saga. While no longer possible to read DK's classic stories on GA, I believe he set up a yahoo group where they would be available. Edited May 3, 2012 by NaperVic
W_L Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Tet, this is a reminder of where we were, where we are, and where we are going. I was drawn to GA due to DK, so despite what others and he himself might have said or say, I always admired him. I also played a part in his departure, so part of me feels like the battle had to be fought. In Asian culture, this chain would be a karmic circle. Though I prefer to believe in the Nautilus concept rather than a perfect circle. As for civilizations, the Chinese have been around for four thousand years contiguously, longer than ancient Greece and on par with Egypt. We've had a long history of war and martial heroism, so it is not a rare thing that only young cultures like the US possesses the kind of fierce fighting culture. The only difference is that patience is something that Chinese, Korean, and Japanese civilization cultivate over the centuries to keep their martial excesses under control. Consider it the balancing act from Taoist philosophy that only trickled into Europe in the last few centuries and only is starting to be looked at in the US. 1
Billy Martin Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 What battle had to be fought? Good God people, this is a site for art, not freaking war! My views differ with most people on this site, but why in the hell would I need to "fight" for my ideas in this forum? I disagreed with 90% of DK's political views; yet, I loved his stories and decided that the soap box forum was a stupid idea for this site, and stopped going there. Most of the stuff spouted there is garbage anyway, from my point of view. However, I was man enough to realize that political bullshit wasn't the reason I was here. It's sad that anyone would take credit for their part in running anyone off from this site, since the purpose of this site is art, not politics! People that feel the need to wage war on this site should find another place to do it. 4
old bob Posted May 4, 2012 Author Posted May 4, 2012 While no longer possible to read DK's classic stories on GA, I believe he set up a yahoo group where they would be availableThanks Napervic, I know that, but DK has put a filter to join this group, which is not open to everyone What is the point of this thread?I support the answer you got from W_L. I dont know if the battle had really to be fought, but battles are always part of life. GA is the expression of all its members. I only regret that we are often only the spectators of some battles. That's why I wanted to give the fighters the opportunity to express their views BTW, I am, as W_L, also an admirer of the Yi King, which is primarily a book of wisdom. What battle had to be fought? Good God people, this is a site for art, not freaking war.Billy, I dont agree with you. All the forums, also the political ones, are the reasons why I like GA. The main reason for its existence is of course the opportunity to read the stories and appreciate their authors. But the possibility of meet friends from around the world, to exchange ideas about their concerns and take part in their lives, may to be able to help them, is all the charm of this site, which has no other equal.
W_L Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 What battle had to be fought? Good God people, this is a site for art, not freaking war! My views different with most people on this site, but why in the hell would I need to "fight" for my ideas in this forum? I disagreed with 90% of DK's political views; yet, I loved his stories and decided that the soap box forum was a stupid idea for this site, and stopped going there. Most of the stuff spouted there is garbage anyway, from my point of view. However, I was man enough to realize that political bullshit wasn't the reason I was here. It's sad that anyone would take credit for their part in running anyone off from this site, since the purpose of this site is art, not politics! People that feel the need to wage war on this site should find another place to do it. I do feel responsible, but i don't seek applause or wish condemnation. My first and only desire throughout the events was defending my friends. I might not agree completely with Jeff, but I would stand by him. Honor is something to be valued, when a friend is bullied you should not look the other way or just brush it off. Most of us are against bullying whether from real life or the internet, but our beliefs need to be backed by action. I am not trying to sound heroic or stuff, i am no hero nor a villain. What happened should never have happened. However, we have no moderators in the soap box, it is not a place for peaceful dialogue. I warn everyone the same if you go into the soapbox you are going to be fighting. It is why i took a few months off for writing, the soapbox is demanding on time and energy.
Site Administrator Cia Posted May 4, 2012 Site Administrator Posted May 4, 2012 Yet another topic about dkstories's stories being removed from the site... from a new direction this time, but still the same old thing. Simply put, your 'nurture' environment does affect your mentality and the way you react to things. However, just saying a person is an American, therefore a fighter, is a very broad generalization. The US has its share of pacificists just as any other country in the world does. I'm an American, I grew up in the West, spent summers in the east and south, and I was raised in a very volatile household. However, I am NOT the type that will simply 'fight until the last breath' for something as inane as a political or social conversation on a writing website. Our nationality plays only a small part in the whole that determines our personality. In all truth, there are a lot more factors involved. What the issue boils down to in this case, with Dan deciding to remove his stories and leave the site, was a clash of personalities. Fighting is NOT something to be admired when it supercedes common sense and social decorum. There is a time and a place, of course, but discussion in the Soapbox on GA does NOT have to so darn 'life and death' to shove opinions down other's throats, yet some treat it that way. The ability to separate your feelings from your reactions, and knowing when they are extreme, is not always easy. Some can't do it. There are always going to be people who leave the site because they get angry at one thing or another. The drama in this case is getting old fast. I really hope this is the last topic we see a 'omg, why did Dan have to leave?' message, or some variation thereof. 3
Billy Martin Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Billy, I dont agree with you. All the forums, also the political ones, are the reasons why I like GA. The main reason for its existence is of course the opportunity to read the stories and appreciate their authors. But the possibility of meet friends from around the world, to exchange ideas about their concerns and take part in their lives, may to be able to help them, is all the charm of this site, which has no other equal. You can agree or disagree, it's all good with me. Unlike others, I don't get all bent out of shape. I don't need anyone's approval for my beliefs. However, I do not approve of bullying. Yet, I find it hard to see how anyone can be bullied online in these forums, when one person's words screams just as loud as another. I know words can hurt, but not when you consider the source of those words. All I'm saying is, give peace a chance 1
Celethiel Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 What battle had to be fought? Good God people, this is a site for art, not freaking war! My views different with most people on this site, but why in the hell would I need to "fight" for my ideas in this forum? I disagreed with 90% of DK's political views; yet, I loved his stories and decided that the soap box forum was a stupid idea for this site, and stopped going there. Most of the stuff spouted there is garbage anyway, from my point of view. However, I was man enough to realize that political bullshit wasn't the reason I was here. It's sad that anyone would take credit for their part in running anyone off from this site, since the purpose of this site is art, not politics! People that feel the need to wage war on this site should find another place to do it. Technically Billy everything in life is a struggle, which means you are at war and as a writer or an artist you are fighting to rise above the crowd, the only way it is not is if you are handed things on a silver spoon from day one. Such a person does not know what it is to struggle to live, or to get things in thier life working the way they want it. No this site is about Writers, not artists... you want artists go to Deviantart... as Art covers a broad spectrum of things besides the writen word, including pottery, photography, drawing, paintings, jewelery making and so on. The soapbox is a forum for those who speak about political and social happenings in this world that can and do raise controversy and push people into one side or another on an issue, and it's the only place you can on this site. However I agree with Cia, it shouldn't have to be life and death shoving views down peoples throats... one reason i usually come out of there with burning fingers... Note: I don't really care one iota about the dkstories Issue, especially after reading what was being said in a previous forum... It was his choice, it's done over with, and it will be his choice if he came back, not to mention he partially owns this sites parent company...
Billy Martin Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 Personally, I have enough "real" struggles in my life without having to endure any useless ones here with people I will probably never meet. I have no idea what was said by whom and I don't really care. What's wrong in giving peace a chance? Art is a term that describes a diverse range of human activities and the products of those activities, but is most often understood to refer to painting, film, photography, sculpture, and other visual media. Music, theatre, dance, literature, and interactive media are included in a broader definition of art or the arts.[1] Until the 17th century, art referred to any skill or mastery and was not differentiated from crafts or sciences, but in modern usage the fine arts are distinguished from acquired skills in general. Maybe you didn't know it, but there are awesome people here that are really good in photography, drawing, as well as literature. So, when I said art, I meant art. One of the awesome things about living in the free world is, we all can have our own opinions, views, beliefs, and express them. Just remember, online we can always just walk away, and not worry about being hit in the back of the head. Again, I don't care who was at fault, and who feels justified, I just wish those of us in the gay and gay friendly community could just get along. Sometimes, all we have is each other Sooooo, I hope everyone has an awesome weekend!
colinian Posted May 4, 2012 Posted May 4, 2012 There are always going to be people who leave the site because they get angry at one thing or another. The drama in this case is getting old fast. I really hope this is the last topic we see a 'omg, why did Dan have to leave?' message, or some variation thereof. When bullying extends beyond posts on a forum into reviews, PMs, email messages, and blogs, when it becomes personal, when the target feels that the moderators don't do anything about the bullying on the site, I can understand why someone would decide to leave. Life is too short to stay where a highly vocal group says they don't want you here. Dan's Premium Content stories are still here and are being updated. As far as Dan's stories on Yahoo Groups, anyone who wants to read them there can request access, and I think that more likely than not it will be granted. As far as the drama in this case, my guess is that people who might not be aware of what happened or who haven't read this topic might bring it up in the future. Sometimes drama on forums seems to have a life of its own that is able to regenerate spontaneously. Colin
Gentim Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 I haven't been aware that Dan had pulled his stories from the website. I'm sorry to that he felt he had to leave. Several of you have mentioned he has a Yahoo! group. What is its name as when I do a search on Yahoo! groups, it doesn't come up. 1
Kenny Deheart Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 I sit here skimming through this thread and all I can think is how unpleasant everything in GA has been feeling lately. Which really makes me kind of sad. 1
Guest muleewiles Posted June 18, 2016 Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) I do not mean to offend any or take sides in this philosophical battle of words about DKStories and his truly imaginative and intelligent stories, and their being removed from GA, okay? I just want to say this: dkstories's stories helped bring me into a much better place in this harsh reality. Some of us old ones had a very hard time back when there was no Web and thought we might be the only queer freak in a harsh fundamentalist realm of then. I doubt DK will ever read this, and maybe no others read this thread these days, but here is my heart and soul appreciation to DKStories anyway: Thank you Sir. I wish I could truly explain what your stories have done for me. You helped me to achieve a real Do Over, and come out at last as a Green Rider, for good. This was indeed a true Awakening for a Goon of the past that is present. If I won Super Lotto, I would give you a gazillion dollars, to show how much I appreciate your Dreams of Humanity, and of a Father (please tell Davey to send me the numbers.) Thank you. Edited June 18, 2016 by muleewiles
W_L Posted June 18, 2016 Posted June 18, 2016 I do not mean to offend any or take sides in this philosophical battle of words about DKStories and his truly imaginative and intelligent stories, and their being removed from GA, okay? I just want to say this: dkstories's stories helped bring me into a much better place in this harsh reality. Some of us old ones had a very hard time back when there was no Web and thought we might be the only queer freak in a harsh fundamentalist realm of then. I doubt DK will ever read this, and maybe no others read this thread these days, but here is my heart and soul appreciation to DKStories anyway: Thank you Sir. I wish I could truly explain what your stories have done for me. You helped me to achieve a real Do Over, and come out at last as a Green Rider, for good. This was indeed a true Awakening for a Goon of the past that is present. If I won Super Lotto, I would give you a gazillion dollars, to show how much I appreciate your Dreams of Humanity, and of a Father (please tell Davey to send me the numbers.) Thank you. Talk about dead topics coming back: It was D K's Do-Over stories that brought me onto GA and I have deep respect for him as a writer. As a politico, we stood on opposite sides of the Soapbox, the predecessors of the Pit. As writer, he was a God of gay writing in an age of tedium; he had extreme epic scope, nuanced ideas, and challenging topics. As an individual, we stood for different ideals with similar desires, like Gore Vidal vs. Truman Capote. (Look up their epic disagreements, gay guys can be extremely different in our views) He was a product of his times, an era of fear and triumph, lust and loss, and values vs. reality. Since his departure, I've finished an entire book since then, and many other authors have come and gone like Shadowgod, Cjames, and DomLuka. He's a reminder of what the last generation of LGBT community gave for our present to be what it is, but we must also move forward and seek our own destinies in the future yet to be written, figuratively and literally. That will be my epilogue to this 4 year old topic. 1
methodwriter85 Posted June 18, 2016 Posted June 18, 2016 Oh my god, I loved seeing dkstories and Private Tim going at it in the political forum. Like, just get a room, you know? Do Over was a wonderful piece of time travel fiction, but I thought it started being overkill when he made like 3 sequels. How the HELL did a topic this old get revived in the Lounge? I thought the archive only went back 4 pages.
MJ85 Posted June 19, 2016 Posted June 19, 2016 How the HELL did a topic this old get revived in the Lounge? I thought the archive only went back 4 pages. Change your filter settings for this forum, and you'll get more. That ought to be a pinned reminder that that's a thing... Count me among those wondering why the necro-posting, though.
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