PrivateTim Posted September 16, 2013 Posted September 16, 2013 I would hope Robbie's mother would have the sense to avoid any memorial services but i think it more likely that the "punishment for being gay" angle more likely. I can see Will being the one to smack her upside the head. Can I give him a nice baseball bat for the job? Hmmm. so the appropriate response to hate is more hate? And not just hate, but violence too?
methodwriter85 Posted September 16, 2013 Posted September 16, 2013 (edited) Think of how empty the Malibu houses are going to be. A few stories ago it was Greg, Stef, Brad, Robbie, Jeanine, Tiffany, Darius, Will and JJ. Now the two houses are just Brad and JJ. Might this be a catalyst to move Will back to Malibu? Or Cody & Maddie? Jeff? I don't think Will's moving back to Malibu- Mark really seems to like the Menlo crowd, more than he did the HW crowd, and he really likes the idea of Marie, Will, and John going together through school. I kind of assumed that Tiffany would have to move back to Malibu at some point, given that she's JJ's coach, and JJ's moving back to SoCal given that it's got a better figure skating scene there. I'm not sure where Maddie ends up, but I really hope it's not with Tiffany. We can't have Riley and Maddie raised as siblings- it'll kill the future storyline potential of Elizabeth Danfield hitting the roof about her precious grandson dating the no-name granddaughter of an 80's terrorist! 9-11 can change where everyone was going to go to school. Wade may feel an obligation to step in as Beau's surrogate father and move to VA to go to the University of Virginia Law School or Georgetown, or Yale or Harvard if that is where Beau is going to go to college, or maybe Beau will come west because Wade is at Stanford. Or maybe where Matt goes for graduate school, USC or UCLA for his MBA will effect Wade decision more, he winds up one of the So Cal law schools and that house in Malibu starts to fill again. I feel like Matt is screaming to be a narrator again, if not here, at least in the next story. There's so many questions and issues that this guy is going to be dealing with- not just his grief, but adjusting out of college (which will probably be harder for him than it is for Wade as Matt really did relish his BMOC title) Wade is more a coastal guy so I see him left coast or right coast, but not in the middle. I can see what you mean about that. For the bulk of my life (18 out of 27), I've never lived more than 90 minutes away from an ocean. The sound of sea gulls and such are a comforting, familiar thing. That was the weirdest part about living in Western P.A., which is pretty close to being in the mid-West- no seagulls, and seafood didn't seem like that much of a big deal around there. I met people who had literally never been to the ocean and my mouth just dropped. Edited September 16, 2013 by methodwriter85
mmike1969 Posted September 16, 2013 Posted September 16, 2013 Hmmm. so the appropriate response to hate is more hate? And not just hate, but violence too? Sure. Why not?
Kitt Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) I'm not sure where Maddie ends up, but I really hope it's not with Tiffany. We can't have Riley and Maddie raised as siblings- it'll kill the future storyline potential of Elizabeth Danfield hitting the roof about her precious grandson dating the no-name granddaughter of an 80's terrorist! Ummm - did I totally misunderstand half of Paternity? I thought Riley's parents were Tiffany and Wade, and that Tiffs dad was the 80's terrorist - not Janine's. That would make her grandson the grandchild of the terrorist - sort of on both sides! She hasn't exactly been an angel herself even if her terrorism was one on one. Edited September 17, 2013 by Kitt
methodwriter85 Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) I stand corrected. I still don't think Elizabeth would be pleased given that neither Jeanine nor Cody come from prominent families, and she's very much of the "who are your people?" old money South mindset. Even though Wade's relationship with Matt is a gay one, I imagine that Elizabeth was still on some level good with it because he's carrying the Carrswold name. It's probably not a nationallly prominent name, but Mark's written them as being a pretty regionally prominent, well-regarded name. Edited September 17, 2013 by methodwriter85
Kitt Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 I am quite sure you are right on that count!
PrivateTim Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 Sure. Why not? Because if someone on a Christian forum suggested taking a baseball bat to a gay's head The Gays would go nuts, it would make national news and Anderson Cooper would have Sanjay Gupta does a segment on why Christians want to be violent on gays.... goose, gander, sauce.
GLH Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) I would hope Robbie's mother would have the sense to avoid any memorial services but i think it more likely that the "punishment for being gay" angle more likely. I can see Will being the one to smack her upside the head. Can I give him a nice baseball bat for the job? Wasn't the illustrious Phelps clan out and about purveying their special kind of Christian love by this point in history? Seems fitting that Robbie's pathetic excuse of a mother would be all about that... Edited September 17, 2013 by GLH
mmike1969 Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 Because if someone on a Christian forum suggested taking a baseball bat to a gay's head The Gays would go nuts, it would make national news and Anderson Cooper would have Sanjay Gupta does a segment on why Christians want to be violent on gays.... goose, gander, sauce. Because these pigs already encourage this behavior? Peaceful actions don't bring about peace and love. Just look at the violence in Russia and the 3rd world nations. Besides, if Will DID take a baseball bat to Robbie's mom's head, would we all be that butt-Hurt and crying years?
Kitt Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 OH PLEASE! My comment was not anti gay, nor was it political. It was simply meant to express my personal irritation with a woman i found to be a religious zealot who needs to learn that not everyone can conform to her own ideals, something a LOT of people in this world need to do. It was not a push for actual violence. I would find it hard to believe no one here has ever had the urge to haul off and strike someone behaving like she has in this story. I also would find it hard to believe any of you would actually do it. I believe the political cartoonist in my area calls it "The urge to kill". It does not mean you will actually do it. I notice the person who first suggested she be smacked upside the head was left out of this entire debacle. I did not respond to Tim's first comment about this because I did not want this nonsense to happen again. I mistakenly thought if I didn't respond the conversation would not run off on a tangent and get out of hand. Since I appear to have offended Pvt Tim publicly here in the forum, this is where i shall apologize to him. It was not nor would it ever be my intention to incite real violence and from here out i will refrain from any comment that might be taken as such. Please gentlemen let this die with my post. None of us need to irritate the mods by turning this into a political argument. 4
B1ue Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 While I appreciate your sentiment, Kitt, I'm not sure it's well founded. I won't comment on the spirit of your original comment, but however inadvertently this is exactly the sort of ethical question that has come up before, several times, during the course of this story. As long as we remain civil, which we have so far, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't open it again. The Crampton/Schulter clan seems to exist in a world of privilege, one where legalities apply only when they let them, or when Arbour lets them. Meeting violence with more violence might not be a particularly practical option, but it's one they've chosen time and time again because, when it comes down to it, the family in general and JP in particular don't seem to trust legal authorities to settle matters to their own satisfaction. Never mind that they aren't, actually, supposed to do that, the family has consistently shown a predilection towards deciding what is right and wrong for themselves, and meting punishment as they deem fit. It's very aristocratic, I think. So I think Will might just take a baseball bat to Robbie's mom. Well, her car at least. Despite his technical assault on Robbie and that one bodyguard, Will hasn't demonstrated a true violent streak when it comes to people, and he has towards property (though whether that is a false distinction is another good discussion point). Brad, on the other hand, has shown to be physically violent towards people on several occasions. And, though often at a remove, so has JP. If Robbie's mom showed up at the funeral to rail at them, I'm not sure who would boil over first. Will, normally, would be my first candidate. He's rash, and afflicted with survivor's guilt. Matt might be my next most likely, as he too is deep in his high testosterone years. But whatever patience Brad and Darius have managed to piece together, it probably won't be available to them the day of the funeral. Plus, Brad has history squaring off against her. Anyone causing trouble that day would be reaching their hands into a woodchipper, but she especially would not be welcomes, possibly even if she came all conciliatory and saying, "He's beyond all pain and suffering now; let's pray for his peace, and ours." JP, naturally, wouldn't do anything that day, but I'd be mighty careful crossing the street for a while after he noticed me. 4
Mark Arbour Posted September 17, 2013 Author Posted September 17, 2013 While I appreciate your sentiment, Kitt, I'm not sure it's well founded. I won't comment on the spirit of your original comment, but however inadvertently this is exactly the sort of ethical question that has come up before, several times, during the course of this story. As long as we remain civil, which we have so far, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't open it again. The Crampton/Schulter clan seems to exist in a world of privilege, one where legalities apply only when they let them, or when Arbour lets them. Meeting violence with more violence might not be a particularly practical option, but it's one they've chosen time and time again because, when it comes down to it, the family in general and JP in particular don't seem to trust legal authorities to settle matters to their own satisfaction. Never mind that they aren't, actually, supposed to do that, the family has consistently shown a predilection towards deciding what is right and wrong for themselves, and meting punishment as they deem fit. It's very aristocratic, I think. So I think Will might just take a baseball bat to Robbie's mom. Well, her car at least. Despite his technical assault on Robbie and that one bodyguard, Will hasn't demonstrated a true violent streak when it comes to people, and he has towards property (though whether that is a false distinction is another good discussion point). Brad, on the other hand, has shown to be physically violent towards people on several occasions. And, though often at a remove, so has JP. If Robbie's mom showed up at the funeral to rail at them, I'm not sure who would boil over first. Will, normally, would be my first candidate. He's rash, and afflicted with survivor's guilt. Matt might be my next most likely, as he too is deep in his high testosterone years. But whatever patience Brad and Darius have managed to piece together, it probably won't be available to them the day of the funeral. Plus, Brad has history squaring off against her. Anyone causing trouble that day would be reaching their hands into a woodchipper, but she especially would not be welcomes, possibly even if she came all conciliatory and saying, "He's beyond all pain and suffering now; let's pray for his peace, and ours." JP, naturally, wouldn't do anything that day, but I'd be mighty careful crossing the street for a while after he noticed me. That was a very thoughtful and apt summation. I think you pretty much outlined how the characters would react better than I could have. I'll cut and paste this for notes. 1
Mark Arbour Posted September 19, 2013 Author Posted September 19, 2013 I wanna grow up to be just like NANA! I don't think she'd be the easiest person to live with.
Daddydavek Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Reflecting on chapter 41, I was surprised that Wade and Elizabeth managed a temporary truce after she showed up anyway and kept insisting she had a right to be there. Elizabeth told Wade that she loved his father, but I think she really loved being the power wife of the Senator and all that entailed. Elizabeth likes prestige and probably feels cheated that she isn't the Senator's widow. Having said all that, I suspect the conniving c_ _t will scheme and make Wade and Nana's life miserable hoping to get her way. Grief is a roller coaster and you hit those stages differently and sometimes in a chaotic jumble. Elizabeth may decide to push Wade's button just as he is experiencing some real anger and could be in for a surprise. Elizabeth loves herself just like her daughter and the only real grief they will feel is that they don't have the Senator to dump on and may try to substitute Wade instead. (Just my feelings and who knows what Mark will actually do?) The brothers are beginning to open up to each other which is a real milestone for JJ and somewhat surprising for Darius. I thought JP's comeback that he would try to take a more active interest in Darius' sexual exploits was perfect, even down to his slight blush. Brad is the one that will have to find strength from his sons as the end of the chapter saw. He has a particularly hard path as losing Robbie was a body blow and he may need the counseling more than anyone else as he has been known to react violently. 1
centexhairysub Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 I was amazed at how well Nana and JP moved everyone from no way to their first group therapy session. I have a feeling that if the two of them joined forced; peace in the Middle East might be achievable... I think that Wade is going to have a really tough time for the next bit. He is going to have to deal with his father's death, the death of his partner's father, his family grieving, his extended family grieving, and battling his mother. I have to wonder if the truce with Elizabeth will really hold until the funeral. While I do think that Nana and JP and a few others will do what they can to back him up; Wade really is a solitary person in many ways. I think he will really benefit from some therapy. Tim made a comment in the review section that I thought was spot on... Elizabeth can have loved the Senator but still be evil. You can love and be loved and still be evil. I think Elizabeth probably did love the Senator in some way and probably even loves her mother and children in her own fashion but Elizabeth loves herself and power most of all. She is evil, not because of this but because she is willing to do anything and give up anything to achieve it. Matt is going to need Wade and his extended family to come to terms with Robbie's death. I think it would help him to also have some help from his adoptive family. The Carrswolds will be able to help him as well. He was on a much better place with them when we last saw them together.... I thought the scene with Darius was perfect. I really liked how he explained the situation with Ella and then his belief that since he was straight, some of his exploits and feelings were not really validated by the family. I thought the way JP, Will, and JJ responded to him was great... I could really see Darius, Will, and JJ coming out of this with a stronger more unified bond. They will always be there own person but they may end up with a better understanding of how each of the other's fit in their life. Okay, we are going to have a member of the family be actually bisexual and it is going to be JJ, WOW... I just would never have seen this coming... It will give him a few great storylines in the future. I still am not sure that this will not be the moment that JJ walks away from skating. He realizes how much he has given up and lost to it and decides it just isn't worth it. This would keep Mark from having to explain why someone so talented did not do well at the major competitions in a few years... LOL... A special note, those of you that have not been following the music recommendations by JJ's namesake need to do so. There have been just some truly amazing song choices over the last few chapters... 4
Kitt Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Okay, we are going to have a member of the family be actually bisexual and it is going to be JJ, WOW... I just would never have seen this coming... It will give him a few great storylines in the future. I still am not sure that this will not be the moment that JJ walks away from skating. He realizes how much he has given up and lost to it and decides it just isn't worth it. This would keep Mark from having to explain why someone so talented did not do well at the major competitions in a few years... LOL... That would be the easy way out Centex. And when has Mark EVER taken the easy route? 2
methodwriter85 Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 Well, to be honest, there's been a timeline roughly worked out to 2006 with JJ's career. Daisy and I came up with it...I wanna say in 2010 or so? It's actually a pretty fine line between adding JJ into actual figure skating history without really re-writing it, although how true to the real timeline we'll stay is up to Mark. The career timeline isn't a set one- we originally had JJ going off to Scotland for the December 2000 Junior Grand Prix, until Mark decided that there was too much going on and had it turn out that JJ was flunking out of HW, making Brad force JJ to stay at home instead. I believe JJ is due for a competition in November in Colorado, but I'd have to check on that. His first competition for the '01-'02 season was the Nebelhorn Trophy in Germany from September 4th through 7th. This is his first season as a senior, so we're assuming that he does well enough to look good and promising, but not enough to beat people like Todd Elderidge and the like. In male figure skating, you're not really a threat until you're closer to 20...even wunderkid Johnny Weir didn't really hit his stride until closer to '06. Evan Lysacek was actually still in the juniors for this season.
Popular Post PrivateTim Posted September 20, 2013 Popular Post Posted September 20, 2013 Okay wait...... I've gone with a lot of really unbelievable things in this story..... street urchins who turn into billionaires, people having sex who never lock their doors, Stanfurd as an acceptable place for a four year degree...... but now Arbour you've lost me..... no credibility.... a teen who who is pissed that his parents never pried enough into his sex life! Seriously?? 6
B1ue Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) Tim made a comment in the review section that I thought was spot on... Elizabeth can have loved the Senator but still be evil. You can love and be loved and still be evil. I think Elizabeth probably did love the Senator in some way and probably even loves her mother and children in her own fashion but Elizabeth loves herself and power most of all. She is evil, not because of this but because she is willing to do anything and give up anything to achieve it. I also thought Tim nailed Edited September 20, 2013 by B1ue
Mark Arbour Posted September 20, 2013 Author Posted September 20, 2013 Okay wait...... I've gone with a lot of really unbelievable things in this story..... street urchins who turn into billionaires, people having sex who never lock their doors, Stanfurd as an acceptable place for a four year degree...... but now Arbour you've lost me..... no credibility.... a teen who who is pissed that his parents never pried enough into his sex life! Seriously?? It's possible. I stay within the realm of possible, not probable. 1
methodwriter85 Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 (edited) One goof here: “What happens to your stuff in the dorms?” I asked. “Stays there until next quarter,” he said. “I called my roommate and told him what happened, and he was cool with keeping an eye on things.” “Probably happy to have his own room,” I noted. “Probably,” Darius agreed. “When are you going back to school?” The fall 2001 quarter at UCLA starts September 25th- it wouldn't make sense for Darius to have already moved his stuff in. Move-in Weekend will probably be September 23rd through September 24th. If Darius was living at a nearby house with roommates, or if Darius was in varsity sport, it'd be one thing, but he really shouldn't already have his things moved in. Something I didn't catch before: I knew that Will, Darius, and JJ were all very upset over losing three-fourths of their parents, yet they were grappling with it so much better than I was. That should be two-thirds, actually. I mean, I'm not sure any of these guys thought of Hank as a parent. They might have as time went on, but she died before they could. Always glad to see Jeff. Edited September 22, 2013 by methodwriter85
PrivateTim Posted September 22, 2013 Posted September 22, 2013 One goof here: The fall 2001 quarter at UCLA starts September 25th- it wouldn't make sense for Darius to have already moved his stuff in. Move-in Weekend will probably be September 23rd through September 24th. If Darius was living at a nearby house with roommates, or if Darius was in varsity sport, it'd be one thing, but he really shouldn't already have his things moved in. Being a quarter school lots of students would have moved in weeks before, mostly because they are fall athletes, but for other reasons as well. The average freshman might have some "move-in weekend" experience, but that would not be the norm for transfer students and not a big deal like it might be as some ivy covered east coast school.
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