9.11

[Kitt]

 (Can debate teams meet at the location?)

 

 

In the high school I attended, the Debate team, Math team, Science team and the like didn't even GET buses. They had to wangle parent drivers and carpools to get where they were going.

[Daddydavek]

I mentioned in my review I thought that Brad's decision to spend the weekend at the condo was surprising and Mark replied that perhaps Brad thought it would be good for Will.  As it seemed to work out I guess it was ok as Zach sure seemed to provide more than enough distractions.  But Will is still processing and dealing with his grief and I'm sure he has some survivor's guilt associated with the loss of his mother, Hank and Robbie.  That isn't something that resolves easily or ever really goes away.   While Will hasn't mentioned it, his sudden crying jags and other emotional outburst are surely consistent with it.  

 

It was a good catch about the team bus and our honorable author took full responsibility.  Kitt's observation above was spot on and true to life as well....

 

Zach is being shown as a private person who doesn't open up very much and if he plans to live his life in the closet while pursuing a football career it is a skill he will need to hone.  

Edited January 24, 2014 by Daddydavek

[methodwriter85]

 

This author finds your nit-picking about the bus particularly annoying, simply because you're right. Damn. It's not my team who missed that one, it's me. I should have caught that. There are a whole bunch of reasons why teams travel to away games together

 

     I don't think it's necessarily a mistake. Zach has already established that he's not really a team player or interested in being one with the team, and I don't think it's mandatory that every teammate has to travel together for an away game. I was in cross-country, and it was never a big deal for people to come alone or with their friends to a meet instead of going with the team. I think we can just fanwank that because Zach is a star, and because he's got visiting "family", so to speak, they're bending the idea that teammates should travel together for games.

 

    In any event, interesting scene- Zach pretty much flat out saying that a future with him means a future in the closet instead of commitment ceremonies and kids they procured courtesy of a threesome with a lesbian, and Will trying to convince himself to be okay with it because he's infatuated with Zach.

[Mark Arbour]

     I don't think it's necessarily a mistake. Zach has already established that he's not really a team player or interested in being one with the team, and I don't think it's mandatory that every teammate has to travel together for an away game. I was in cross-country, and it was never a big deal for people to come alone or with their friends to a meet instead of going with the team. I think we can just fanwank that because Zach is a star, and because he's got visiting "family", so to speak, they're bending the idea that teammates should travel together for games.

 

 

Nope.  Tim was right (for the first time in about 20 forum pages )   Football (and hockey) are different, and they go in buses.  They're going to a strange school (probably) with fans who may be obnoxious.  The coach is going to want to keep his guys together, and keep an eye on them.

[mmike1969]

Nope. Tim was right (for the first time in about 20 forum pages ) Football (and hockey) are different, and they go in buses. They're going to a strange school (probably) with fans who may be obnoxious. The coach is going to want to keep his guys together, and keep an eye on them.

Hell, even faux news gets it right once and a while

[Kitt]

Nope.  Tim was right (for the first time in about 20 forum pages )   Football (and hockey) are different, and they go in buses.  They're going to a strange school (probably) with fans who may be obnoxious.  The coach is going to want to keep his guys together, and keep an eye on them.

As I recall, even when there were good reasons that an individual needed their own vehicle after the game, special permission had to be obtained before hand and the player rode with the team to the event, the family had to arrange an extra driver to get the vehicle there, and after the game the player would accompany the team right up until they boarded the bus, then head for his/her car, and even then the coach would watch till the car was moving. This applied to the female varsity as well as the male. But then, there were all sorts of things happening in the late 70's around here, including race riots in the city and black and white hallways in my school, so perhaps they were a bit over cautious?

[John Prz]

First of all hi to everyone here. 

I have to deeply thank you Mr.Arbour because of this extraordinare work. These novels should be considered an example of modern litterature.

I remember the first time I casualy came to end on this site and how more casualy I ended at reading the first chapter of Be Rad. I ended the book during the summer in a couple of weeks. When I noticed it was a series I was even more happy.

I never stopped to being amazed from how well CAP characters are built and how deep is the connection you're able to create between the reader and the character. I have to admit that I cried more than one time reading this serie.

Now I finally arrived at where the magic is created. So I think now I'm ready to try to partecipate to this amazing huge journey you're taking us on.

[Kitt]

Welcome to the discussions John! We seldom agree but we have one hell of a fun time doing it!

[rjo]

A Warm Welcome John

[PrivateTim]

Nope.  Tim was right (for the first time in about 20 forum pages )   Football (and hockey) are different, and they go in buses.  They're going to a strange school (probably) with fans who may be obnoxious.  The coach is going to want to keep his guys together, and keep an eye on them.

 

I think it goes well beyond safety in team sports, it is more fundamental. Team sport coaches hate individualism, they do all they can to build a team mentality not unlike what happens in the military. They don't want guys "doing their own thing", I've seen stars sat down for being too much about themselves.

 

On the practical side a coach wants to know his star quarterback is on the bus and not rely on him to show up on his own. In cross country, if your #1 runner gets lost looking for the meet, it doesn't destroy a weeks worth of planning a game plan and prep, you just move the #1 JV or Frosh Soph kid up to the #7 varsity spot.

 

As I recall, even when there were good reasons that an individual needed their own vehicle after the game, special permission had to be obtained before hand and the player rode with the team to the event, the family had to arrange an extra driver to get the vehicle there, and after the game the player would accompany the team right up until they boarded the bus, then head for his/her car, and even then the coach would watch till the car was moving. This applied to the female varsity as well as the male. But then, there were all sorts of things happening in the late 70's around here, including race riots in the city and black and white hallways in my school, so perhaps they were a bit over cautious?

 

Can't speak to NJ, but in CA a football (water polo, etc) coach would never release a kid to drive his own car after a game if the kid came on the team bus for liability reasons. He would only release a kid to his parents and then only for a very, very good reason (i.e., college recruiting trip and need to catch a plane). Again, they discourage individualism at every turn.

[rjo]

If Tim is into Surfing, He must be loving it. Today

[Mark Arbour]

 

First of all hi to everyone here. 

I have to deeply thank you Mr.Arbour because of this extraordinare work. These novels should be considered an example of modern litterature.

I remember the first time I casualy came to end on this site and how more casualy I ended at reading the first chapter of Be Rad. I ended the book during the summer in a couple of weeks. When I noticed it was a series I was even more happy.

I never stopped to being amazed from how well CAP characters are built and how deep is the connection you're able to create between the reader and the character. I have to admit that I cried more than one time reading this serie.

Now I finally arrived at where the magic is created. So I think now I'm ready to try to partecipate to this amazing huge journey you're taking us on.

 

 

Thank you so much.  I'm glad you're here. 

 

I think, personally, that Be Rad is the second best story to start the series with.  At the risk or derailing this thread (and your comments), I'm wondering what other people think?

[mmike1969]

I got hooked on Bloodlines and I thought it was the best. It was after you finished it that I started to read from the beginning of the saga.

Edited January 25, 2014 by mmike1969

[rjo]

I had followed it from before Bloodlines. It is almost an unbelievable transformation from a story of one person to a story of a family with all its problems. At first I had a problem with 1968, I think because of Jeff's death, but I have grown to live with it. Other books I had problems with were A Summer Love, because I thought a relationship between JP and Jeff's son was a little creepy, and The Box, not because of the story. I loved that we could get to know Steven and Tonto was living again, but knowing in the back of my mind Steven would die. Mark has progressed through this saga only getting better and better. In 9 11 he has overcome Robbie's death and shown us how strong these characters are. I think in showing us Will and his drama, his problems and perils, we as readers see the family growing, changing developing. I think of this saga as a family album, full of memories, some good and happy, some sad, but all treasured.

[John Prz]

Thank you so much.  I'm glad you're here. 

 

I think, personally, that Be Rad is the second best story to start the series with.  At the risk or derailing this thread (and your comments), I'm wondering what other people think?

 

I liked Be Rad a lot. But The land Whore and If It Fits are my favourite because there is a Stef fan here.

As a stand alone... mhhh. I think Bloodlines is the best one. Because we saw as Matt the whole coming into this big loving family. I think it is not necessary to have read the other books to understand the other characters, whom are gradually introduced along the story.

[Westie]

The very best of all the books is Bloodlines, and I am a huge fan of the "Matt" that we met in this story, if not the "Matt" we see in future stories.

 

The best one to start with, being a conventional sort of guy, for me is CAP itself. Start at the beginning.

 

Of course, if you really want entertainment, also read Mark's Bridgemont series, which is in my view Mark's best work since "on the Mark" (unfinished).

Edited January 25, 2014 by Westie

[John Prz]

Since everyone is discussing about this, why not joining the discussion?

 

I can relate somehow to Matt and Will. Even if my situation is probably not as complex, at least as I see it. 

 

I can understand what Matt can feel. He's related to that family only by Robbie, who died. Which happened to be also is father, and which is also one of the few reason [excluding having sex with Stef ] why he got into CAP family.

Differently I can also understand Will. He doesn't have blood relation with many people, but he grow up with his brothers and that include Matt, but we must consider that they know each other from 4 years only.

I'm not justifying any of them, but I think all noted that at the beginning of Bloodlines, Matt took under his wing JJ, and in another way Darius. Will showed from the beginning not that much interested in Matt.

 

The problem is:

Will has a strong sense of family, but he's independent. He would do anything for someone else of CAP family, but he also wants the same from the others.

He doesn't consider the Hayes in Claremont as part of his family because he never saw them like that. They were the last arrived. It's like the aunt and uncle and their sons, which you see only in Claremont for the 4th of July. Not much time to create a deep bond.

We know Matt have also a sense of family, but it is different. He's closer as familiar to the Hayes but we didn't see him do much about it. Differently and strangely, as I saw it when I read it, he bought that cellphone to his half-brother, the one he has from his biological mother (Laura if I remember right?). (And by the way Mr. Arbour. Where does that kid end?).

 

As I see the problem, Will asked something really important to him to his whole family. He asked to all of them for support and for having his back.

Matt does consider him as a brother, but didn't get how, for Will, that request was important. He saw it as a challenge? I don't know. He saw it as a way to cope with his loses? Maybe. The only thing I know is that he got burn. (Still I thought Tony got him drunk, but that was proven wrong).

Probably, in a not so near future, we will (hopefully) see Matt getting back on track and plead Will to start over. At least trying to do what Robbie would have wanted them to do. (If he will play this card and being honest I don't see Will doing anything else than say he's forgiven.)

 

That's all. Sorry for my sh+++y English.

 

PS. Will we ever see Stef as a narrator again? I'm missing him a lot!

Edited January 25, 2014 by John Prz

[rjo]

I must say John your insight on this story is remarkable. As for your English, it is much better than my Italian would be. I am so glad you have found us and Mark's great tale. Welcome again.

[Kitt]

I have to agree with rjo on pretty much everything he has said - on Marks fantastic writing, on how the CAP characters become like family, and on how John should not worry about his English. I studied French for years and I am not sure i could manage a single coherent post in that language.

 

The only thing I disagree with him over is the best book for reading first.  I am sort of attached to Paternity, since that is the first story I tripped on the day I joined GA.  I went back and started at the original CAP while waiting for chapter updates on Paternity and finished the other books at about the same time Paternity wrapped up. It will continue to be my favorite simply because it introduced me to the Crampton/Shulter family.

[Mark Arbour]

Since everyone is discussing about this, why not joining the discussion?

 

I can relate somehow to Matt and Will. Even if my situation is probably not as complex, at least as I see it. 

 

I can understand what Matt can feel. He's related to that family only by Robbie, who died. Which happened to be also is father, and which is also one of the few reason [excluding having sex with Stef ] why he got into CAP family.

Differently I can also understand Will. He doesn't have blood relation with many people, but he grow up with his brothers and that include Matt, but we must consider that they know each other from 4 years only.

I'm not justifying any of them, but I think all noted that at the beginning of Bloodlines, Matt took under his wing JJ, and in another way Darius. Will showed from the beginning not that much interested in Matt.

 

The problem is:

Will has a strong sense of family, but he's independent. He would do anything for someone else of CAP family, but he also wants the same from the others.

He doesn't consider the Hayes in Claremont as part of his family because he never saw them like that. They were the last arrived. It's like the aunt and uncle and their sons, which you see only in Claremont for the 4th of July. Not much time to create a deep bond.

We know Matt have also a sense of family, but it is different. He's closer as familiar to the Hayes but we didn't see him do much about it. Differently and strangely, as I saw it when I read it, he bought that cellphone to his half-brother, the one he has from his biological mother (Laura if I remember right?). (And by the way Mr. Arbour. Where does that kid end?).

 

As I see the problem, Will asked something really important to him to his whole family. He asked to all of them for support and for having his back.

Matt does consider him as a brother, but didn't get how, for Will, that request was important. He saw it as a challenge? I don't know. He saw it as a way to cope with his loses? Maybe. The only thing I know is that he got burn. (Still I thought Tony got him drunk, but that was proven wrong).

Probably, in a not so near future, we will (hopefully) see Matt getting back on track and plead Will to start over. At least trying to do what Robbie would have wanted them to do. (If he will play this card and being honest I don't see Will doing anything else than say he's forgiven.)

 

That's all. Sorry for my sh+++y English.

 

PS. Will we ever see Stef as a narrator again? I'm missing him a lot!

 

Incredibly insightful. 

[methodwriter85]

 I relate to JJ in some ways- the cheerful part, as well as the bitchy petulant child part. For some reason, I also seem to have this deal where I say things that are taken like I'm being an asshole to somebody, although I've been much better about that lately. He's faaarrrrr more focused than I was at his age or even now, though. I was also somewhat effeminate like he was as a teenager, although weirdly enough, I don't read as "effeminate" to people in person anymore.

[Daddydavek]

Chapter 69 is up and makes not one single reference to 69.  Mark never goes for the obvious.

 

As I mentioned in my review, Zach's insight into dealing with pain and sharing that with Will actually seemed to resonate with Will and perhaps give him some basis for dealing with his own.  If he brings it up in counseling, that may validate it.  

 

The chance meeting of Val and the later events in the restaurant was truly written well.  That Brad and crew were provided an earful was funny.  Then Chris arrives and Will reminds Zach he owes him fifty and that was too funny.

 

While I somehow doubt that Chris ends up being quite the distraction that Zach has been for Will, it could get interesting.  

[Kitt]

 

 

While I somehow doubt that Chris ends up being quite the distraction that Zach has been for Will, it could get interesting.  

 

That it might, more so since Tim's opinion of Mendoza being predatory seems to have been confirmed by his own mother and that chef. 

 

I'm curious - was that a family owned restaurant? Momma seemed awful tight with the chef and he seemed very familiar with Mendoza's...dating habits.

[Mark Arbour]

 

I'm curious - was that a family owned restaurant? Momma seemed awful tight with the chef and he seemed very familiar with Mendoza's...dating habits.

 

We don't know, probably because Brad wasn't very focused on it.  He's not into Chris enough to worry about those details.

[PrivateTim]

 

FROM: hermetically sealed's review

 

Will has had rage issues ever since Paternity. The family was either blind, or ignorant to somehow think it would not get worse, especially after a significant trauma. As for the Zach and Matt situations, I think Will is playing the hypocrite.

 

Matt has generally speaking, been a good family member up until this tiff, and yet Will declares him dead to him, and not a real member of the family. As seems to be typical anymore, the family obeys without question. Zach, on the other hand, screwed over his own family and purposefully sought to cause problems between Will and John in the past, yet, no one is allowed to hold his past against him. By god, he deserves a second chance, and all just because he's sexy and fucks well. And again, the family acquiesces to his judgment. Where is the voice of reason in the family, is there even one left anymore?

I'm not saying that Will doesn't have a right to be mad, nor that Zach doesn't have the right to prove himself a changed man. However, Will is the one jumping down others' throats for holding grudges for past wrongs, while doing just that himself, and no one, not one single member of the family seems inclined to point this out. Will's narcissism and absolutist outlooks need tempering, or just like his anger problems, they are just going to get worse. Nice to see Brad is reaching a somewhat center of peace. Given that the Hayes appearances seems to be very pronounced within the family, being around Gathan, Matt and Zach probably doesn't make things easier. Not really sure about Chris. Something just seems insincere, or at least manipulative about him.                                 

 

Man it bugs me you can't like reviews because that is pretty much how I feel about the Will/Zach and Will/Family thing.

 

As I said in my review, Zach has gone from trouble maker extraordinaire, to super supportive non-boyfriend boyfriend extraordinaire pretty quickly. Which Zach will appear when his "friendship" with Will threatens his football future?