Coming out as Bisexual

[AFriendlyFace]

Hi all,

 

A comment made by a member in one of our threads got me thinking about this topic.

 

Do you feel that it's necessary for a bisexual to 'come out'?

 

What exactly would this entail? How would it change things for the bisexual? Would that be a good or bad thing?

 

 

I tend to prattle on at length on the topic of bisexuality, so I'll refrain from giving my own thoughts for the moment.

[Tiger]

I do not really think it is completely necessary for a bisexual to come out unless there is a significant other of the same gender. However, I do believe they should consider coming out and showing pride in who they are. Still, I do not blame those who decide not to come out and just let people think what they will. However, I do think a significant other has a right to know in any case!

[Dion]

I tend to prattle on at length on the topic of bisexuality, so I'll refrain from giving my own thoughts for the moment.

I'd love to read your 'prattle', if you don't mind sharing.

[old bob]

Hi all,

A comment made by a member in one of our threads got me thinking about this topic.

Do you feel that it's necessary for a bisexual to 'come out'?

What exactly would this entail? How would it change things for the bisexual? Would that be a good or bad thing?

I tend to prattle on at length on the topic of bisexuality, so I'll refrain from giving my own thoughts for the moment.

Hi Kevin !

You have certainly a gift to, as we say in French, "to break in open doors".

There are different types of bi. Those who are essentially gay and find also their fun to f..k with females, and those who have a female as partner and are also happy with gay friends for sex or no sex contacts. I belongs to this second group.

In both cases, a bi is living at the same time in two different worlds. In the gay one, no need to "come out" formally. His behavior is a "come out" for itself. In the straight word, it

[Libby Drew]

I consider that to be very much an individual decision, and I expect, as you say, that the level to which a person's bisexuality is openly demonstrated may play a factor. Regardless, I believe coming out as bisexual to your partner to be pretty important in terms or trust, respect, and intimacy.

 

For myself, my parents and sister have always been well aware of my bisexuality, since I never took any pains to hide it. I have noticed, as an amusing side note, that they seem to believe I've "turned" heterosexual, since I married a man and had children. So silly.

 

For my husband, his bisexuality is not a subject he discusses with his parents (though I suspect they know). At any rate, we knew these things about each other long before we were ever married, and it's made for some fun times over the years. We don't shout it from the rooftops, true. We keep our private lives private. But we also strive to help our children understand that it's not the gender (or sexuality) of the person you love that matters, but how their soul touches yours.

[Bandage]

I consider that to be very much an individual decision, and I expect, as you say, that the level to which a person's bisexuality is openly demonstrated may play a factor. Regardless, I believe coming out as bisexual to your partner to be pretty important in terms or trust, respect, and intimacy.

 

I agree with your point there, since when one would hide that part, you'd base your relationship and/ or marriage on a lie... And when the other one finds out, it can be rather painful I think...

[Guest watts]

I am going to post my comment under the 'name' i have been posting on. I hadnt realised my computer had signed me in under this name. I created it when I thought I couldnt change my email under the other (as it was going to be cancelled since it was my uni address and I'm finishing). Since I've worked out how to change it, but obvioulsy my computer did this to me and I hadnt realised, sorry about this.

celia

Edited May 16, 2008 by watts

[Daisy]

I am going to post my comment under the 'name' i have been posting on. I hadnt realised my computer had signed me in under this name. I created it when I thought I couldnt change my email under the other (as it was going to be cancelled since it was my uni address and I'm finishing). Since I've worked out how to change it, but obviously my computer did this to me and I hadnt realised, sorry about this.

celia

here is what I posted a few minute ago:

I'm not really sure where I stand on it. I think that a person's life is only their buisness, so there should be no need to kind of make a big thing of declaring it to the world. Three of my close friends are bisexuals, and I got to know about them in different ways. The first told me privately at 16 oneday, and since then she has been open about who or what she likes - and new friends since those days just get confronted with it in conversation say when she talks about random things, she doesnt explain, I think she just forgets, and its not a problem anyway. The second, in school there were rumours he was gay, he was slightly effiminate, I can't even remember how he told me he was bisexual but it must have come up, although all his last relationships in the last 4 years have been guys (which is why he came out to his parents - but as bisexual). The third suprised us all when she starting snogging another friend on a night out a year ago, that was a double coming out. One of the girls had been wanting to tell us for ages that she was a lesbian but was scared, the other, I didnt really know untill then, but that was her coming out as a bisexual. She just started a relationship with the other girl and that was it (well after she broke up with her bf), and been very open about it in my hometown. If people ask is she a lesbian she just smiles and lets them think what they want, but most don't ask. They temporarily broke up, she started dating another guy, but now is back with the other girl (I think she is confusing alot of people, but she's as comfortable as ever, she amazes me at times).

 

I think its important among friends. We are all very open with each other and can talk about pretty much anything - it wouldn't be the same if people hadn't come out in their own ways - if they had remained hidden. It may be easier to work out who you can like if people are clearly out, but I don't think that its fair or necessary that people are.

Celia

Edited May 16, 2008 by Smarties

[AFriendlyFace]

I do not really think it is completely necessary for a bisexual to come out unless there is a significant other of the same gender. However, I do believe they should consider coming out and showing pride in who they are. Still, I do not blame those who decide not to come out and just let people think what they will. However, I do think a significant other has a right to know in any case!

I would certainly agree with this statement. Regarding the first part about not really necessary unless they are dating someone of the same gender...well I find that more problematic. That's an implicitly heterosexist notion. Granted, the unfortunate truth is that most people are 'heterosexual until proven otherwise', but I think ideally people's sexualities shouldn't be assumed. In that way I could understand and agree if you said, "not really necessary unless they date someone of the atypical gender" in other words if the person tends to date guys or tends to date girls and then does the opposite it might warrant the explanation "oh I'm bisexual", but I don't care for the assumption (however true) that people will just naturally assume that someone is straight until they have evidence to the contrary.

 

Indeed, to me the most natural and fair assumption should be that person is bisexual. I think if everyone practiced this belief there would be infinitely less prejudice and sexuality would essentially become a non-issue. If people really wanted to they could come out as 'gay' or 'straight', but it wouldn't be strictly necessary since their options and the expectations about them wouldn't be limited in the first place.

 

As the system is currently set up I find it easiest and most accurate to explain my sexuality as 'gay', but however remote the possibility I find it very unfortunate that were I to meet a girl I wanted to pursue it would be a 'big deal'. I couldn't just start dating her and enter a relationship without completely shaking up my social world and people's expectations about me. That's a great pity in my opinion.

 

I also tend to think that there are many instances in which a 'gay' person lets someone of the opposite gender pass them by, and just as many instances in which a 'straight' person lets someone of the same gender pass them by, when in fact they might have been a very good match for each other and had a very happy, satisfying relationship. I attribute this in large part to the problem I see with people assuming that these people are just 'off limits'.

 

I guess it's true that very often people are predominately, or even exclusively, one way or the other, but far more often I think they tend to just delude themselves into thinking that, and close themselves off to other options. I'm not criticising the individuals themselves because given the society we live in it's extremely hard to think outside the box of sexual orientation, but I personally believe that the majority of human beings are naturally inclined to be 'straight' with some gay tendencies, that another fairly sizable contingent will naturally be 'gay' with some straight tendencies, and that three other, much smaller segments of the population, will naturally be exclusively straight, exclusively gay, and 'equally' bisexual.

 

I'd love to read your 'prattle', if you don't mind sharing.

Well here's some of it

 

In summary, coming out depends entirely how you live your sexuality. People who lived first as

[Jack Frost]

I do not really think it is completely necessary for a bisexual to come out unless there is a significant other of the same gender. However, I do believe they should consider coming out and showing pride in who they are. Still, I do not blame those who decide not to come out and just let people think what they will. However, I do think a significant other has a right to know in any case!

You took words out of my mouth.

[Dion]

Well here's some of it

Thank you. I enjoy reading your posts.

 

However, I think the sad truth is that coming out is necessary, especially as a bisexual. I think that even ignoring the practical considerations there's something of a social responsibility. As things stand right now society is not accepting of gays and bisexuals, as such an individual who has the privilege of coming out without being in physical danger or facing serious economic hardships should come out because it benefits everyone for them to come out and, in my opinion, it's practically a social responsibility.

First I'd like to say that the belief that bisexuals can 'come out without being in physical danger or facing serious economic hardship' is not always true. But... that's a discussion for another time, I think.

 

I don't think people give a damn about bisexuals, per se. It's only when they consider that the classification implies the possibility of a homosexual relationship that they actually kick up a fuss. For the most part - as I've said before somewhere - people tend to think of bisexuals as unreliable and best taken with a grain of salt. As for 'social responsibility', I don't think I understand. A human being, regardless of orientation, has a personal responsibility to be honest. They have a moral responsibility to be humane. Society is a term used to refer to a group of many people - therefore their obligations should not change.

 

I can definitely understand and empathize with the people who say 'it's no one else's business', and they're very right. Unfortunately I don't think we have that luxury. I think it's important that people see gays and bisexuals in a wide range of settings and places. I think it's important that people face up to the reality that gays and bisexuals are everywhere. For that reason I do believe it's necessary for bisexuals to come out.

I, too, think it's important to recognize and accept the diversity of life. People seem more willing to address (I didn't say 'embrace') ethnic diversity than they do sexual diversity - but it also seems to me as though the two are handled like... well... a medical problem. Perhaps not the best analogy, but consider this: it is much easier to get medical attention if you walk into an emergency room bleeding than if you've got a headache so bad you can barely move. Bleeding is tangible. Too many people refuse to acknowledge an issue if it cannot be seen. Therefore it is important that gays be seen in public. Note I didn't include bisexuals - why? Because unless a bisexual person is involved in a homosexual relationship they cannot contribute to the broadening of other people's minds. To the general populace they aren't doing anything 'unacceptable' and therefore are not seen. But this leads me to another question: How is one supposed to be 'seen' as gay? Do they change the way they act? Dress? Stamp it on their forehead? With the exception of a very few, gays are the same as everyone else. So do they start acting 'camp'? Wear badges?

 

I'm not trying to incite an argument - just so that's clear...

 

I don't think there should be restrictions on what gays can and cannot do. It's unfair and inhumane. Unfortunately prejudice is a learned behavior and until it's removed from the equation very little will change. When there's progress in the movement for gay rights I'm overjoyed, but the thing that really gets me on my feet cheering is progress in the fight against prejudice. That, in my opinion, is the whole problem - not just part of it.

 

Of course most of this discussion has taken place in the vacuum of some sort of 'ideal world', naturally things aren't always going to be so easy and straightforward. It isn't easy to live your life without gender and sexual orientation expectations, nor is it always easy to come out, especially if the situation is potentially difficult and uncomfortable. For some people they might not be ready to 'come out' even in 'friendly', 'accepting' situations. I think it's important for people to recognize and understand these facts and to be patient with themselves and each other, but I do think that people should nevertheless continuously evaluate and re-evaluate their thoughts and behaviours on these points.

People should beware of stagnation. It's the most dangerous trap out there. If one cannot (or will not) step back and take a look at what they're doing they will find themselves falling off the cliff with the rest of the lemmings.

 

In an 'ideal world' people would realize that two men (or two women) falling in love with each other does not constitute a threat. The saying 'you can't choose who you fall in love with' is so much broader in scope than people allow. Unfortunately very few will acknowledge this.

 

I just realized that this post may seem as an attack on Kevin - that was not my intent. There were many points in his post I wanted to respond to... and I haven't yet mastered the art of quoting several different posts at once. My apologies if any of this comes across the wrong way to anyone.

 

The only other thing I wanted to address was the comment about showing pride in being bisexual. I, personally, have vacillated on that point for a very long time. I don't know if there's reason to be 'proud' that I am the way I am but I refuse to be ashamed of it. Is there a difference? Perhaps not. It's the way I feel about it at any rate.

 

I think it's the people who admit that they are gay (whether privately or publicly) that should be proud of themselves - it's a huge dose of honesty that a lot of people don't have the guts to swallow.

[AFriendlyFace]

Thank you. I enjoy reading your posts.

Ah, well then you are in luck for there are quite a few of them out there to be read

 

First I'd like to say that the belief that bisexuals can 'come out without being in physical danger or facing serious economic hardship' is not always true. But... that's a discussion for another time, I think.

Yes, that's what I meant, sometimes there IS such danger.

 

I don't think people give a damn about bisexuals, per se. It's only when they consider that the classification implies the possibility of a homosexual relationship that they actually kick up a fuss. For the most part - as I've said before somewhere - people tend to think of bisexuals as unreliable and best taken with a grain of salt. As for 'social responsibility', I don't think I understand. A human being, regardless of orientation, has a personal responsibility to be honest. They have a moral responsibility to be humane. Society is a term used to refer to a group of many people - therefore their obligations should not change.

Ah but there is such a think as 'social responsibility' which is a separate concept. This is the idea that people have a responsibility to others in their society and a general responsibility to the society itself to 'improve' it and make it better for everyone.

 

Since GLBT are oppressed to some extent and often not very visible then I think it is the responsibility of other GLBT individuals to 'be out there setting a good example' so that society sees this and begins to react more favourably to other GLBT people. If someone knows me, like me, and respects me then even if it isn't any of their business whether I'm gay or not, even if it never comes up, even if it's easier to just avoid going into the issue, it's still my 'social responsibility' to let them know that I'm gay, because then they're faced with the information that this person they like and respect is gay. That then makes it harder for them to discriminate against other individuals and dismiss all gays in a blanket fashion with the notion that we're 'immoral' or 'perverted' or whatever. They have to face up to the fact that they know and like a gay person. Sure they can dismiss it as a 'fluke' or something, but if there are enough 'flukes' they have to eventually realize that it might not be a 'fluke' per se. Also, even if they do dismiss it as a fluke, it at least opens up the possibility in their minds that more 'flukes' might exist which would at least make things marginally better.

 

 

This is thus a social responsibility in that my actions have implications for other similar people (it makes it better for other gays) within the society and for the society itself (the more people I impact in this way the more society benefits, and it has a 'ripple effect').

 

In that way I would say that it is different from my responsibility to myself or my responsibility to be honest, because I might be interpreting these responsibilities in a way that would exonerate me from having had to come out to these people if the topic had remained a non-issue.

 

But this leads me to another question: How is one supposed to be 'seen' as gay? Do they change the way they act? Dress? Stamp it on their forehead? With the exception of a very few, gays are the same as everyone else. So do they start acting 'camp'? Wear badges?

To answer this question, I would say that the simplest way is to not hide it and to be open about it. Don't censor your words, don't say "my friend and I say this movie" say "my boyfriend and I saw this movie". Don't say, "my friend is upset because his relationship ended" say "my friend is upset because he and his boyfriend broke up", etc.

 

More simply if someone makes a homophobic - or gay-affirming for that matter - comment, that's a good opportunity to say "I'm gay". Homosexuality and related issues may simply 'come up' in everyday conversation, and that too is a good example to say "I'm gay".

 

So that is how I would propose increasing visibility without dressing or acting in ways that might be uncomfortable or unnatural for someone.

 

Note I didn't include bisexuals - why? Because unless a bisexual person is involved in a homosexual relationship they cannot contribute to the broadening of other people's minds. To the general populace they aren't doing anything 'unacceptable' and therefore are not seen.

I would disagree with this point because first of all I would disagree with your statement people's only or main beef with bisexuality is the potential for homosexual behaviour. It would be nice if it were that simple, but I don't think it is. I think very often you get all that, but then you also get a whole other set of prejudices related specifically to the topic of bisexuality.

 

People have all sorts of negative ideas about bisexuality, some of which you pointed out yourself and there are certainly a whole lot more, more even than either of us could sit here and list in their entirety. Almost all the prejudice you get from the gay community about bisexuality has to do with these beliefs and many of these things are also present in the minds of the 'biphobic' straight person. In this way bisexuals face homophobia (and perhaps to some degree 'heterophobia' in the gay community) AND their own unique 'biphobia'.

 

Often times they face the homophobia to a lesser extent than gay people, and often times they can avoid being 'found out' completely, but nevertheless they do face their own unique form of prejudice.

 

In this way the same idea I suggested above can be implemented here. When people make any of those 'gay' remarks or when 'gay' issues come up, it's easy for a bisexual person to say "well I'm bisexual, so I think...", but it's also important, probably more important for the bisexual themselves and other bisexuals, for a bisexual individual to actively combat 'biphobia'.

 

If people make negative remarks about bisexuals, or any remarks about bisexuals, or if the topic simply comes up, I think it's good for bisexuals to take a stand. You also get the same benefit of having people, gay or straight, faced with the fact that "___ is a bisexual and I like him/her".

 

Let's say people believe bisexuals are promiscuous and you've been in a committed, monogamous relationship for a long period of time, it's good to point out that you are bisexual and not simply a gay or straight person in a gay or straight relationship, because then the individual has to face the fact that "well, I guess bisexuals won't necessarily cheat on their partners"

 

Or maybe someone believes that bisexuals are fickle and won't stick around through adversity. If you maintained a relationship with someone despite homophobia or other obstacles I think it's good to point it out so that people have to acknowledge, "Well here's a bisexual that committed and in it for the long-haul".

 

 

I just realized that this post may seem as an attack on Kevin - that was not my intent.

Oh don't worry, I didn't feel attacked at all

 

There were many points in his post I wanted to respond to... and I haven't yet mastered the art of quoting several different posts at once.

Perhaps I can help you then.

 

When you want to quote multiple posts by multiple posters all you have to do is click the 'quote' button beneath each post (bottom right-hand side). It'll turn bright red and change from a "+" sign to a "-" sign. Don't do anything else at that point, simply read on, and repeat the process with each post you want to quote. When you're done reading and ready to make your reply click "Add Reply" at the very bottom of the page (do not click 'fast reply' or simply 'reply' to any of the posts). From there the screen that comes up will have all the posts that you wanted quote. It looks like you already know how to edit/format the quotes as you like

 

You can quote up to ten times within a single response/post.

 

 

Great points and a fun discussion!

 

Take care and have a great day

Kevin

[Dion]

I figured I was misunderstanding something somewhere - when I said people had a personal responsibility to be honest I also meant that they should honestly admit they are gay or bi if they can. Until prejudice is no longer a problem, however, there will always be a major fear factor associated with this. I don't want to be the one who tells a gay or bisexual 'you have a responsibility to come out of the closet when asked' if they have a genuine fear of doing so - that would be cruel.

 

I am enjoying the discussion, but I don't want to monopolize the thread, so I'll add only one more thing:

 

I have to admit you made me realize there was another aspect to the problem I didn't address - that some gays feel the same way about bisexuals that heteros do. A bisexual person who has been in a gay relationship for a prolonged period of time, having ended that relationship, could be seen as something of a fraud if they then became involved in a hetero relationship. I've heard of situations where this happened and gays who once called themselves 'friends' with a bisexual suddenly ended the friendship because the bisexual was then seen as something of a sham. I believe the term 'acting like they were gay because they thought it was fashionable or something' was even used. It makes for a rather confusing and lonely existence.

 

But then my situation is a little different - I didn't realize I was bisexual until I stopped associating with other people - so I have no first-hand knowledge of any of this. It's mostly conjecture, interspersed with things I have been told by others who have gone through the experience. I have given it considerable thought, however. I can only imagine how the conversation would run should I ever have someone I wanted to come out to:

 

"I'm bisexual."

 

"You're what?"

 

"Bisexual... You know - no real preference for one gender over the other."

 

"Dude, how the hell could you know that? You don't even leave the house!"

 

By the way, Kevin - thanks for the tech tip. I feel intelligent now.

[clumber]

I think that Bisexual people have just has much 'responsibility' to come out as a gay person does. That is none at all.

 

Saying that someone has a responsibility to come out is, I think, wrong. You are saying that they are wrong to refuse to come out. Some people are in situations where they simply cannot come out. It might be that they are living in a place where it is basically a risk to your safety to come out. They might be in a situation where they are dependent on someone who would not accept them if they were gay. They may simply be in a situation where they themselves feel unable to come out. Who are we to tell them that they shoudk come out anyway? The last thing homosexuality needs is more bloody martys. Reason being, martys are sacrifices. Demanding acceptance while waving a banner of pain is wrong, and in my opinion an insult to those who have suffered.

 

If someone wants to come out, then that is their choice. If it improves their life, then well done to them. I wish them well. If it doesn't improve their life, then they are entitled to the help of any who can/will give it. They aren't entitled to that help for being gay. They are entitled to that help because they require help.

 

If, on the other hand, someone doesn't want to come out... well, fair play to them. They may feel, for whatever reason, unable to come out. They may feel that they'd be at risk if they came out. They may feel that they'd lose out of they come out. They may simply have trouble with the idea of coming out. Thats their choice. Why should we say they are wrong to make it?

 

 

If you are an out gay person, and someone tells you that they are also gay, but not out to anybody else in their life, would you really turn them away and call them a coward? Simply because they can't, or won't do what you have done? If that is the case then it is you that is wrong, not them.

 

If we have any responsibility at all, it is to help people. Not to help 'eachother' and refuse to help anybody who isn't GBLT simply because they aren't 'one of us'. If we do that, we are no better than those who refuse us.

 

 

Martin (who seems to have rambled quite a bit but probably got to the point somewhere in that wall of text)

[corvus]

I think that Bisexual people have just has much 'responsibility' to come out as a gay person does. That is none at all.

 

Saying that someone has a responsibility to come out is, I think, wrong. You are saying that they are wrong to refuse to come out. Some people are in situations where they simply cannot come out. It might be that they are living in a place where it is basically a risk to your safety to come out. They might be in a situation where they are dependent on someone who would not accept them if they were gay. They may simply be in a situation where they themselves feel unable to come out. Who are we to tell them that they shoudk come out anyway? The last thing homosexuality needs is more bloody martys. Reason being, martys are sacrifices. Demanding acceptance while waving a banner of pain is wrong, and in my opinion an insult to those who have suffered.

 

I agree with clumber in his most basic assertion, that nobody -- bi or gay or lesbian or whatnot -- has any responsibility to come out. That's not to say people of different sexualities should remain in the closet. But IMO, sexuality should be a complete non-issue. That is to say, when you meet someone, you shouldn't assume that person is straight -- you should have enough respect for non-straight sexualities to actually consider otherwise. Therefore, sexuality shouldn't *need* to be mentioned. I mean, it's nobody else's business, really. If you were in a close and, particularly, romantic relationship with someone, then it should be mentioned, as it's certainly one of those things that the SO is entitled to know...

 

Also, I agree with Kevin that everyone is bisexual.

[Drewbie]

Also, I agree with Kevin that everyone is bisexual.

 

I don't agree, for me, I might think girls are pretty or a few, but that's it, would that count as bisexual? I don't think so...

 

But anyways, what corvus and martin said I agree with. If a bi girl or boy isn't dating or a gay guy or girl don't see why they have to come out, course if they want to, but least tell them when they are dating, to make it a little easier when family or friends meet the respected boyfriend or girlfriend.

Edited May 18, 2008 by Drewbie

[GaryK]

Also, I agree with Kevin that everyone is bisexual.

I respectfully disagree.

 

Sorry in advance if I offend anyone.

 

A relationship with a woman is something I cannot wrap my brain around. Thinking about straight sex makes me gag. The one time in my teens that I tried to have sex with a girl I could not perform. I've known all my life that I was gay. Never had any doubts about it. There is no bisexual in me at all.

 

Now, to get back on topic.

 

Nobody has a social obligation to come out. My only obligation to society is to not be a sociopath. Other than that it's nobody's business who I choose to have sex with or what my orientation is. Even in an absolutely ideal world where there's no chance of negative repercussions I still don't think anyone has an obligation to announce their sexuality to the world.

 

Now here's the really important part of what I want to convey in this message...

 

I prefer to educate the world one person at a time. Over the decades people that I've come to know are well aware of my sexual orientation. They see me as a hard-working, honest, decent, moral person who just happens to prefer guys to girls. That, I think, makes more of an impression than announcing to the world that I'm gay. So what if it takes more time to convince the world there's nothing wrong with being gay? Simply announcing to everyone that you're gay isn't going to change anyone's opinion on the subject. No, they need to learn first-hand that being gay or bi or whatever is perfectly acceptable. So, in my opinion bisexuals do not have any obligation to come out en masse.

[rknapp]

The only fathomable reason I think of for a bisexual person to come is if they start dating someone of the same gender (yes Kevvers, I read your spiel earlier on that and I while I agree, I also think you need to get out more lol). Think about it -- you're a bisexual guy who is now dating another guy for the first time and you want him to meet your parents. I think it would be rather appropriate then to inform them of those pesky details before coming home and saying, "Parents, this is my new lover Bob." I think they, in some cases, might have a heart attack. On the other hand, if it is apparent that coming out is not advisable, yet you still care for them, then I think it's perfectly fine to hold that side of you aside until you start dating someone who takes advantage of that side. It would just be weird to say to your parents that you're a bisexual guy and then continue to date women -- hell that might even be detrimental to the process of them accepting you and would be devastating when you actually do bring a male lover home and say, "I told you that already!"

 

Just my thoughts as I steal internet access from a hotel other than my own right now, hehe.

[Tiger]

Okay, I have to say this. Just because I wanted to believe I was bisexual does not mean that I am. I wish I were. Sorry Kev, but I am 100% gay. I could maybe sleep with a woman if I were really drunk or if it were specifically for the purpose of procreation. Otherwise, it's not happening.

[Bandage]

I think a few of you are misunderstanding Kev's words... No offence though (Tell me if I'm wrong though, Kev)

 

He means that, if you're able to come out, as a gay or bi, and there are no repercussions and you feel ok with it, that you should come out, so as to show to the world that there are actually LOADS of us, and that we're everywhere...

This might help for others, who are still in the closet, to get a little courage to come out as well, as they see a positive attitude towards those other gay/bi people.

 

I hope I didn't confuse anyone

 

Me myself am still in the closet, and nowhere near being actually ok with it... But I think it would help me to see other gay/bi people on the street, and see that they are in fact accepted by their friends/family...

(Wewt... Even writing this makes me sweat profusely... Sigh lol)

 

And I think I'm 100% gay too... Sigh... I have tried sleeping with a woman... I did get aroused, probably from the friction, but I could never 'finish'... Always something would come up, like, I'm getting tired or aww, this hurts.... So I have to disagree as well on the matter of everyone's bi.

Edited May 18, 2008 by Zilar

[Dion]

Perhaps not 'bisexual' in the literal sense, but I think there's some merit in saying everyone's bisexual even if only a little bit. It's not impossible to believe that someone can be attracted to a member of the same sex. Whether it invokes jealousy or attraction, it does happen - a lot.

 

A gay man looking at a woman and thinking "She's pretty"... A straight man looking at another man and thinking "He's got a good body"... A lesbian woman looking at a man and thinking "He's hot"... A straight woman looking at another woman and thinking "She's gorgeous"...

 

Yeah, it happens.

 

So... I think it's probably true.

 

As for the original topic of the thread, I probably shouldn't say any more on that until I've actually had to confront such a situation.

[old bob]

I certainly think the primary consideration is your satisfaction with your life! I also think you've made some good points which I agree with about people deciding to 'stop' or 'shut off' their attraction to one gender or the other, I think that's very much the same point I'm getting at.

Hi Kevin, at last we find points on which we are on the same line

In general I find that people are reluctant to accept a duality in them. People instead seem to assume that they have to be 'straight' or failing that 'gay' or that they have to live up to gender expectations ... I think there's a good degree of 'gay' and 'straight' and 'male' and 'female' in everyone. I actually think that sexual orientation and social gender should be largely incidental and certainly largely irrelevant.

Here I don't agree. Look at the bi members in GA. Most of them are happy with it and accept a duality in them. Once you recognized fully your duality, you can't consider it to be "incidental and irrelevant." The real problem of married bi people is to stay faithful to their wife and to give up any physical contact with other gay or bi people! As I said before, it depends entirely on the comprehension of the wife.

I'm mostly inclined to agree with this sentiment in that I think it's really people's own business what they do. I also think that ideally people should have to come out at all. However, I think the sad truth is that coming out is necessary, especially as I bisexual. I think the even ignoring the practical considerations there's something of a social responsibility.

What do you mean with your "social responsibility" ? In "real life", you are responsible for yourself and for yourself only. For me, social responsibility concerns my attitude towards the law, the authorities, perhaps the church if you are an active member of a parish, but this has nothing to do with my sexuality.

I can definitely understand and empathize with the people who say 'it's no one else's business', and they're very right. I think it's important that people face up to the reality that gays and bisexuals are everywhere . For that reason I do believe it's necessary for bisexuals to come out".

Even I don't agree with your opinion, I must say that

[AFriendlyFace]

I think a few of you are misunderstanding Kev's words... No offence though (Tell me if I'm wrong though, Kev)

 

He means that, if you're able to come out, as a gay or bi, and there are no repercussions and you feel ok with it, that you should come out, so as to show to the world that there are actually LOADS of us, and that we're everywhere...

This might help for others, who are still in the closet, to get a little courage to come out as well, as they see a positive attitude towards those other gay/bi people.

LOL, YES! Thank you!

 

HAHA, almost every one of them was misunderstanding what I was saying!

 

Obviously then it's very likely ineffective communication on my part, and probably also related to the fact that I took several text pages to say what you essentially said for me in one paragraph. As I've said before, brevity isn't really one of my virtues.

 

I think that Bisexual people have just has much 'responsibility' to come out as a gay person does. That is none at all.

 

Saying that someone has a responsibility to come out is, I think, wrong. You are saying that they are wrong to refuse to come out. Some people are in situations where they simply cannot come out. It might be that they are living in a place where it is basically a risk to your safety to come out. They might be in a situation where they are dependent on someone who would not accept them if they were gay. They may simply be in a situation where they themselves feel unable to come out. Who are we to tell them that they shoudk come out anyway? The last thing homosexuality needs is more bloody martys. Reason being, martys are sacrifices. Demanding acceptance while waving a banner of pain is wrong, and in my opinion an insult to those who have suffered.

One of the main points I *meant* to drive home with my post was that while I do think people have a social responsibility to come out if it's feasible for them, I do not want or expect people to come out if their physical or economic welfare will be negatively impacted, nor do I mean to "rush" people who aren't ready emotionally and psychologically just yet.

 

If someone wants to come out, then that is their choice. If it improves their life, then well done to them. I wish them well. If it doesn't improve their life, then they are entitled to the help of any who can/will give it. They aren't entitled to that help for being gay. They are entitled to that help because they require help.

...

 

If we have any responsibility at all, it is to help people. Not to help 'eachother' and refuse to help anybody who isn't GBLT simply because they aren't 'one of us'. If we do that, we are no better than those who refuse us.

Err, I never meant to imply that someone should receive special consideration just because they are GLBT nor did I ever mean to imply that we shouldn't help people who aren't. I'm honestly not sure what I said that might have given that impression, except that one person's 'coming out' is generally a good thing for the GLBT community as a whole.

 

I agree with clumber in his most basic assertion, that nobody -- bi or gay or lesbian or whatnot -- has any responsibility to come out. That's not to say people of different sexualities should remain in the closet. But IMO, sexuality should be a complete non-issue. That is to say, when you meet someone, you shouldn't assume that person is straight -- you should have enough respect for non-straight sexualities to actually consider otherwise. Therefore, sexuality shouldn't *need* to be mentioned. I mean, it's nobody else's business, really. If you were in a close and, particularly, romantic relationship with someone, then it should be mentioned, as it's certainly one of those things that the SO is entitled to know...

That's EXACTLY the what I meant in the first place! Once again phrased much more concisely

 

Also, I agree with Kevin that everyone is bisexual.

Okay, I have to say this. Just because I wanted to believe I was bisexual does not mean that I am. I wish I were. Sorry Kev, but I am 100% gay.

I respectfully disagree.

 

Sorry in advance if I offend anyone.

 

A relationship with a woman is something I cannot wrap my brain around. Thinking about straight sex makes me gag. The one time in my teens that I tried to have sex with a girl I could not perform. I've known all my life that I was gay. Never had any doubts about it. There is no bisexual in me at all.

Let me reiterate my thoughts on this. I think the majority of people are predominantly (and usually to a large extent) either 'gay' or 'straight', but that they do have some bisexual feelings. (I also meant to imply that very often they were not comfortable with this and did not acknowledge it to others or even themselves, but I did not mean to challenge anyone's assertion that they were completely gay. There's no way I could possibly know anyone other than myself well enough to know if that were the case or not, and most days I'm doing good to know myself that well)

 

I also said that I thought a much smaller segment of the population (but still some people, and I'm certainly willing to concede that those people might be you guys ) are completely 'gay' or 'straight', and that further roughly the same number of people are 'completely bisexual' (in the even, truly no preference for either gender sense). In that way I actually meant to say that a 'true bisexual', and a 'true heterosexual/homosexual', in the horribly simplistic traditional way of understanding is an infrequent occurrence. I think most people are somewhere along a spectrum, but with a very clear preference.

 

Think about it -- you're a bisexual guy who is now dating another guy for the first time and you want him to meet your parents. I think it would be rather appropriate then to inform them of those pesky details before coming home and saying, "Parents, this is my new lover Bob." I think they, in some cases, might have a heart attack.

LOL, Robbie came closer to understanding what I meant on this subject than did most people. I did mean that it shouldn't be necessary for a person to come out (as any orientation at all), because such things shouldn't be assumed and should simply be largely irrelevant and incidental (like the concept of gender itself IMO), but I readily concede that that is under 'ideal' circumstances, in some perfect world. I definitely think coming out is necessary as things stand today, especially in scenarios like the one Robbie described above.

 

 

Me myself am still in the closet, and nowhere near being actually ok with it... But I think it would help me to see other gay/bi people on the street, and see that they are in fact accepted by their friends/family...

(Wewt... Even writing this makes me sweat profusely... Sigh lol)

 

And I think I'm 100% gay too... Sigh... I have tried sleeping with a woman... I did get aroused, probably from the friction, but I could never 'finish'... Always something would come up, like, I'm getting tired or aww, this hurts.... So I have to disagree as well on the matter of everyone's bi.

 

I'm so sorry things are rough for you right now. I'm really really proud of you for confronting things as much as you have already! I'm also grateful that you did realize that I wasn't trying to pressure you - or anyone else - to do more before you were ready.

 

It seems to me like you're doing an excellent job with your journey and I think you'll definitely reach the point where you can be very comfortable with yourself and your sexuality (I'm definitely getting that indication from you!). I think at some point, hopefully in the not too distant future, but regardless at some point down the line, you'll find that your sexuality is a wonderful, positive, and affirming thing for you. I really think you're going to be just fine, dude

[Drewbie]

Okay have some good points, I completely agree, with assuming a person is straight, I know it probably shouldn't annoy me but it does. A few asked me, and they never seen me with a girl in a romantic sense.

 

A member here explained a little better if what you meant by everyone being bi, still don't complety agree, I still say im 100% gay

 

and can find a girl pretty, but nothing else.

[AFriendlyFace]

Nobody has a social obligation to come out. My only obligation to society is to not be a sociopath. Other than that it's nobody's business who I choose to have sex with or what my orientation is. Even in an absolutely ideal world where there's no chance of negative repercussions I still don't think anyone has an obligation to announce their sexuality to the world.

In an ideal world without the chance of negative repercussions I would agree with you wholeheartedly that no one has an obligation to come out, because at that point it wouldn't be necessary!

 

It's precisely because there is still discrimination out there that people, who are ready, and safe, do have a responsibility to come out, to help end this discrimination! I'm not saying everyone is in a position in which they can safely come out, and I'm not trying to force anyone to come out. I always think the GLBT person in question has the ultimate say in these matters and should always do things when they're ready. I would never 'out' anyone nor would would I try to guilt or pressure anyone who obviously wasn't ready and/or was in a risky situation.

 

All I'm saying is that a great many people who are okay with it and ready internally, who aren't going to face physical danger, and who aren't likely to face extremely crippling prejudice still don't come out because they have the attitude that 'it's no one's business' and that even a little, or the risk of a little, discrimination isn't worth it. It's those people who I'm urging to re-consider. Even if just for themselves. I truly believe most of those people would be happier if they 'took the plunge', but even ignoring that I think people with such a relatively nice set up (and there are quite a few people who fit these criteria) do have a social responsibility (or since so many seem to be dislike the term - though I still personally think it's the most accurate - we can call it a 'humanitarian responsibility') to come out and make things better for the countless individuals who would face extreme derision and serious obstacles. In so doing I believe they make society a better place for everyone, and not just themselves and other GLBT people, but for all people (thus why I think 'social responsibility' is the best term).

 

I prefer to educate the world one person at a time. Over the decades people that I've come to know are well aware of my sexual orientation. They see me as a hard-working, honest, decent, moral person who just happens to prefer guys to girls. That, I think, makes more of an impression than announcing to the world that I'm gay. So what if it takes more time to convince the world there's nothing wrong with being gay? Simply announcing to everyone that you're gay isn't going to change anyone's opinion on the subject. No, they need to learn first-hand that being gay or bi or whatever is perfectly acceptable.

I would object to that at all, quite the contrary I would actively support and laud such efforts. I believe 'one person at a time' is often the strategy to take. I never intended to imply that everyone should be out to everyone. Only that people who could be out in general society, to whatever degree, should be.

 

 

Here I don't agree. Look at the bi members in GA. Most of them are happy with it and accept a duality in them. Once you recognized fully your duality, you can't consider it to be "incidental and irrelevant."

Not to be cynical or to insult anyone but we only know that the ones who are happy with it and accept it are...happy with it and accept it. I assume that we wouldn't know about the ones who aren't happy with it and don't accept it.

 

Also, I think that in any GLBT/friendly community you'll find a greater level of acceptance of this duality (I'm not specifically talking about bisexuality here, but a duality in general with regards to sex/sexuality/gender/roles/etc). I think the greatest reluctance to accept this duality of spirit is in the straight world. Many, if not most, straight men and women are reluctant to accept, embrace, and display their own potential for both very 'masculine' and very 'feminine' feelings, behaviour, and 'roles'. I dare say that if they did homophobia (and biphobia) would largely disappear.

 

I'm not saying this because I'm assuming everyone would run out and 'experiment' with members of the same gender, most probably wouldn't. The benefits would come from the fact that there were no longer rigidly held beliefs about what it means to be 'male' or 'female', or for that matter 'gay' or 'straight' (and again so much of this isn't directly sex/intercourse related) as such it simply wouldn't rock their social world anymore.

 

 

The real problem of married bi people is to stay faithful to their wife and to give up any physical contact with other gay or bi people! As I said before, it depends entirely on the comprehension of the wife.

I agree. For me complete monogamy, for both parties, is a requirement in a romantic relationship. It's just how I prefer to conduct my own. However, I would never presume to tell other people what's best for their relationship in this matter. If they and their spouse/partner/S.O. have an open relationship, or any kind of 'arrangement', then more power to them and I'm completely behind them.

 

I object to infidelity and cheating. However, if the people in the relationship are okay with sex with others and no one is lying or deceiving or otherwise breaking the terms of their unique relationship, then I certainly don't care and don't think it's any of my business.

 

 

 

Take care all and have a great day!

Kevin