AFriendlyFace

You certainly shouldn't be condemned for faulting something you don't like, something which you consider 'bad taste', but one could still argue that that's simply your taste. I guess I'm a bit biased, I'm prone to considering nearly everything from a shades of gray/relativist lens anyway; I think virtually nothing is "good" or "bad" or "right" or "wrong" in the purely objective sense. It all merely has to do with personal preferences, values, and ethics, as well as the social, political, and cultural context in which it occurs. I think this is even MORE the case with all forms of art, including literature. Our culture certainly does have ideas about what makes literature "good" or "bad", and I won't say I disagree with them (after all I live in our culture and my thinking is obviously going to be influenced by it). I may even be willing to concede that perhaps, just MAYBE, there really is an objective "good" or "bad"...well maybe. Is Hamlet really any better than an article in the Enquirer about Lindsey Lohan's rumoured lesbian affair? Almost everyone would think so...but how can we REALLY know? Undoubtedly major segments of our society will enjoy the Lohan article more. Many people will find Hamlet "dated". Etc. Does this speak more of the people than the 'literature'? Almost certainly...but isn't that rather the point? Personally, I'm inclined to agree with the majority of Nick Archer's points and I'm most assuredly have opinions, strong opinions, about what makes "good literature". However, I still think that's simply a subjective opinion rather than any kind of absolute. When you get right down to it there really is no spoon.

Yay! That sounds exciting!

...I had a headache.

Well I guess it was bound to happen eventually! I wonder how it is that I so often agree with both of you? (granted it's usually on different points though ) Goodness, Tim! You really do need to go somewhere else!

That does sound nice. Good points, Vic! Thanks for bridging the extremes, lol Well said, Viv!

Thanks Corvus! I think my 'problem' is that I really like for romantic relationships to progress slowly in terms of the emotional stuff and the time spent together (maybe I'm just slutty, but I don't mind as much if the physical stuff happens quickly ). So my idea 'relationship' would be one in which we really only see or speak with each other once or twice a week for the first month or so. After that gradually more often until you get to that intense, 'in love', I wanna be around you all the time thing. I guess it all comes down to me wanting to actually date before I get into a relationship. In that way so far so good actually. We've been texting a little bit (which is fine...ideal actually), and we have plans to meet up tomorrow night (which is 5 days since last time...so also good). So I am optimistic about everything right now -Kevin

The Vapors - "Turning Japanese"

Thanks Tim! LOL, and thanks for not revealing them either, it is fun to have a surprise in that regard I think! I also have to admit that I've always really liked giving things titles. In all honesty it's a simple joy that's one of my favourite aspects of being a writer. In fact, if anyone happens to remember I even liked it so much I used to name the scenes within Indefensible. Of course the chapters and scenes themselves were much longer (about twice as long actually) than they are for BMAD. Thanks Sharon! LOL, and I appreciate you keeping us in line about spoilers too! I like to chat (there's a surprise), so I'll have to be very careful to avoid giving anything away. Chapter Eight's title is probably my favourite too. Largely in part because it's not only fun, but I had several layers of meaning in mind with it. I'm very much looking forward to discussing why I named it what I did, lol. With "Hot Mess" it's pretty obvious. Anyone have any speculation about the title of chapter 2, "One For Later"?

For some odd reason I was rather thinking that Dimitri might hijack the cop car too!

Well I pretty much agree with everything said by all the previous posters. Billy, Vic, and Graeme took my best answers (gender and race/minority issues...and fashion!), but I'll throw one more onto the list: In contrast to Corvus' point about being an 'outsider' (which also has it perks) gay people simultaneously also have a built in sense of 'community'. People can easily 'bond' over the gay issue and there's all sorts of 'gay places' and 'gay resources'. This is of course mostly assuming that you have access to a major city in an at least somewhat accepting/tolerant society, but even where that doesn't exist sites and communities like GA can further fill that void It's like a friend of mine said once, "I wouldn't be worried [socially/about loneliness issues] about moving to any major city without knowing anyone. All I'd have to do is become active in the local gay scene or community." In tandem with that I'd also point out that we have a unique and rich history and culture. -Kevin

Mika - Relax

I agree with you, indeed that was the part of Lugh's post - which by the way mostly resonated with me - to which I least agreed and most objected. As a writer I expend a lot more effort on creating a sharp last paragraph, and the general tone and feeling of the end is really quite paramount to me. As a reader the ending is often how I evaluate the book as a whole and as you indicated, definitely what sticks with me the most (typically). I would agree with you as well. Personally, I try very hard to inject such subtleties and symbolism into my own work. For one of my stories the etymology and meaning of several of my characters' names revealed clues to their general personalities as well as the hints about the plot. Do I really expect anyone to look these things up or spend that much time analyzing the story? Of course not, but I still somehow feel better knowing they're there. Similarly I was reviewing and editing a chapter of one my stories last night and several hours later as I was lying in bed I suddenly 'remembered' the deeper significance and parallelism of one of the scenes. The scene worked fine without this added level, and obviously it's easy to miss if I had forgotten about it myself, but again, I'm happy just knowing it's there. Anyway, I will agree with Lugh and Kit and the others on one essential point that they seem to be making: at some point you've got to leave it alone and move on. It definitely IS possible to over-edit or make something seem too technically correct. I agree that first and foremost a good storyteller has a responsibility to focus on tone, emotions, language, etc. For example sometimes people use extraneous, redundant words (see) in their conversations with each other; they also use them in their internal thought. Pretending this doesn't happen and religiously slashing unnecessary adverbs from every sentence does the story a disservice in my opinion. It's the perfect way to write an essay, a thesis, a scientific paper, or even a literary review, but it fails to capture the 'slice of life' that many narratives are about. That's what I mean about writing to serve your purpose. If my character is disjointed and confused perhaps my sentences relating to him should be a bit awkward and imprecise as well. Of course all that really goes back to what you said about wrongly thinking something, and also goes back to Kit's points about over thinking and over intellectualisation. Anyway, take care and have a nice day, Kevin

Thanks CJ! Thanks for pointing this out! I agree with you, I probably should have mentioned Aaron's name in at least the first scene. The story sort of dawned on me on one morning when I had the day off and was taking a long, hot bath. The longer I soaked the more I thought about the story, and by the time I got out, dried off etc., and got to the computer I had things pretty fleshed out about how I wanted the first chapter to be. As a result I wrote it pretty it quickly, and while it was always rather the point to make it informal and conversational, the first draft - before anyone got a look - was very casual SLOPPY. My original emphasis was just on getting the story down and then cleaning it up. I actually vaguely remember when I got to that point of Jake asking, "You sure, Aaron?" that I briefly stopped, reviewed the text, and realized that WOW this was the first time I'd mentioned Aaron's name. As a result, I felt it needed some explanation, so I decided to slap down a casual, and mildly amusing "That's my name by the way" and continue with the story. I'm sure I meant to go back and revise it later, but obviously I never really got around to it. I can somewhat justify that since I'm telling the story from Aaron's point of view, and since hopefully in that process I'm able to identify with Aaron, that 'Aaron' hadn't considered mentioning his name up until that point. It sort of fits with the whole racing thoughts, casual narration thing. However, as an author and objective reviewer, I think it would have been better mentioned sooner in case people were sitting there thinking, "Ok, so what's this guy's name?" The best solution I've been able to come up with would have been for the opening line of the story, as uttered by Jake, to have been something like, "Well Aaron, it looks like Bmad's got another one." instead of just "Looks like Bmad's got another one." Do you guys think that would have worked better? Also, most importantly: Were you wondering what Aaron's name was prior to Jake revealing it? -Kevin

Yes

"Dance Dance" - Fall Out Boy

LOL, that rather reminds me of someone inquiring: 'why do you continue to work there.' '...well, the benefits are good' That actually seems like a pretty logical and natural progression to me! I'm happy for you Menzo and (just being silly not trying to jinx it or freak you out) I look forward to the day when you can say, "he went from a friend, to a friend with benefits, to a boyfriend, to a husband/life partner"

"Pain" - Three Days Grace

I think the style should fit the purpose. Sometimes minimalism is best. Yet there are a plethora of other instances in the literary world in which nothing short of shameless and all out ostentatious ornamentalism would competently accomplish the task at hand. As a general rule of thumb I think that humour should serve a particular point of some kind when it is present in literature. Personally speaking I tend to rely a bit too heavily on humour in my writing. I've often written something and thought, "this is rather clever, but do I really want my reader smirking at this point in the narrative?" I very much believe in bending, and outright breaking the rules to suit your style and purpose. For example just the evening I purposely included a comma splice in one of my chapters because I felt that using a semicolon in such a purposely informal, simple bit of dialogue would have been too showy and distracting. I also didn't want it to be as choppy as it would have become had I simply divided it into two sentences. Yet it needed something, and I didn't want to re-word it, so I went with an incorrectly used comma and considered it a job well done. Anyway, my point is that you should write with your purpose in mind and bend style and voice to serve that purpose. Also, just because I never pass up a chance to get in a jab at him, I have to say that without a doubt Hemingway is the most mind-numblingly boring, least enjoyable, renowned author that I've ever had the misfortune of reading. Indeed, if someone really wants to write a scathing critique of my work all they have to do is compare it to Hemingway. Just my thoughts and opinions, Kevin

Thanks Dude! Jack Scribe actually pointed out this list about a year ago, in this thread in the Writer's Corner. The main reason I remember it is that since that time I've been thinking it would be really fun to purposely write a little satire about it. In fact I was considering the idea again just yesterday!

Hey Yukibi! It's really wonderful to have you here!! It sounds like your English is pretty good! However, if you do sincerely want us to help you, I will point out that you likely meant "it's nice 2 join every1" Adding the 't' gives it a slightly different, though somewhat humourous, inferred meaning that you probably weren't going for When you say you're trying to write in English do you mean stories or just regular forum posts? I'd be very interested in reading one of the stories! Especially if it helps shed light on your unique cultural experiences Once again welcome to the forum! Take care and have a great day! Kevin

I'm really glad your move went well!

I shall remember that, "it was too pretty not to steal" defense in case I ever get arrested for art theft. Sounds great though! I'm looking forward to reading what it reaps

Well I know we're getting further off topic now, but my idea - well more like an ambition really - was to finish the sequel to my story, then begin working on another story. With two complete, I was hoping to be able to release each one on a weekly basis on different days of the week. Anyway, I'm very very excited about a sequel for LTMP! It's good that we might not have to say goodbye to all the characters just yet

ahh then clearly my theory about Mario still being alive is incorrect