7 hours ago, Mrsgnomie said:

What I’m trying to say is, sample their work if you’re not familiar with it. You don’t have to accept someone’s help just because they offer. I learned the hard way.

You also don’t have to accept all their suggestions. 

Yes!  Excellent advice!  It's a good idea to check out examples of stories someone has edited and even stories they have written, if they're also an author.  I would check out stories they have edited from multiple authors, because ultimately it's up to the author to accept or reject any editing changes.  An editor can only do so much with poorly-written stories.  If their own work is riddled with errors, then it's probably a good idea to keep searching.  

It's definitely okay to use the 'reject change' button.  Sometimes a grammatical error may be done on purpose, especially if it's in dialogue or first person narrative.  Some things are stylistic also, as not everyone follows Chicago Style guidelines.  

1 hour ago, Mancunian said:

It is possible that new and less experienced authors, like myself, may think that an editor is going to rewrite their story so that it is no longer their story but the editors. Most of the stories I have written I haven't used an editor but would most likely benefit from being looked at by a good editor. From the limited times that I have had the assistance of an editor the experience has been good.

A good editor does not rewrite the story, they point out spelling and grammar errors for you to correct, including punctuation errors. A good editor may even point out continuation errors and/or lack of detail or explanation and sometimes where you may have included too much. In short a good editor does not change your story but helps you to tell your story better, a beta reader can help in many of these ways too. @Mrsgnomie has helped me as the editor of my anthology entry, my errors were pointed out and explained. The explanations are as good, if not more valuable, than the errors being pointed out, I see each one as a lesson to be learned and I value them. As a result my anthology entry has benefitted greatly from assistance of a good editor and has not been changed but improved.

I hope to find an editor who I can work with longer term, but until then I will take what ever lessons I can and try to learn from more experienced authors.

That's a very good point.  Good editors do not re-write stories, and if you work with one that does, then hit that 'reject changes' button and move on to another editor.  A good editor will help make the story better and help the author grow as a writer.  I've been lucky to work with some very good editors who have taught me a lot. I've always been a very clean writer, and strong technically, so I don't usually see a lot of red with my edits.  I had a story edited by someone once and was returned with almost the entire thing covered in red.  It was a perfect example of editing gone amok.  There were a few good suggestions among all that red, but otherwise, there was a lot of unnecessary changes and it was essentially rewritten in that editor's style.  So it's a good idea to be familiar enough with writing 'rules' to know when you're getting good advice and when you're not.  If your Spidey-sense is tingling, then it's probably a good idea to go with a different editor.  

I didn't address beta readers in the blog post, but a good beta reader is just as valuable as a good editor.  IMO, there is definitely overlap, since I believe good editing includes beta reading.  Beta readers aren't looking at the technical aspect, but more story content, continuity, and flow.  Finding a team that includes  both an editor and a beta reader is good idea for all authors, especially newer ones, because that's how you learn and grow your craft.  

27 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

Finding a good editor who'll stick with you is golden, but rare. I've had someone guide me for a long time, and I'll be forever grateful. Mark Arbor's had the same editor for the last century and I'm always impressed by that.

As for beta readers, ardent fans are not always the best choice. I want someone who will challenge me and make me think. Find someone who leaves thoughtful comments on your stories instead of someone who only praises you.

I don't have the luxury of a proofreader doing a final clean up all the time, so I run chapters through Grammarly right before posting. Imprefect though it may be, it's another tool we can use.

Yes, finding good, long-term editors can be extremely difficult, but it's wonderful when you develop a good working relationship with someone.  I have two beta readers who I've worked with for years, and while we've developed close friendships, neither one are afraid to tell it like it is when it comes to my writing.  That's great advice about how to find a good beta reader.  Giving only praise teaches authors nothing.  There needs to be a balance between telling what they're doing well and what needs improvement.  

I think most authors, unless being professionally published, probably don't use a separate proofreader.  I will do a final proofread for some of the authors I edit for, but most of the time, the initial edit suffices.  The anthology is different, because we want to ensure at least a basic quality of writing to represent the site, so ensuring works are as clean as possible makes sense.  

That's a good point about Grammarly and Ginger and other such sites.  While definitely imperfect, they should catch the major things.  

17 minutes ago, Mrsgnomie said:

When I recently went over @Mancunian Anthology, it turned out our word systems were not compatible. Something I have never experienced before. When I saved it, it essentially turned all my suggestions into permanent changes and only left my comments for them to accept or decline. I felt terrible because it made it impossible to compare their original work to what I was suggestions. It probably made me look bossy AF, like, you MUST ACCEPT MY SUGGESTIONS.

Tech fail for sure!!

3 minutes ago, Mancunian said:

I agree that there was a tech fail, I use Open Office, but that didn't mean that I couldn't compare with or go back to the original text it was just a bit more involved. When I did compare, taking into account your notes, I found it easy and did not feel as though you were being pushy. I always keep copies of the original text as I find it useful. Your help made think and consider, a lot of your suggestions were accepted, although some only in part, what you did was help me write the story better. I've also kept your notes as there some valuable lessons in them for me to learn from.

 

The issue here is with the file being saved as an ".odt" or "open document text".  I edited half of an entire novel once for someone who used the .odt format and it converted all the changes to permanent  So I essentially had to edit it twice.  Lesson learned!  Sorry, with how swamped I am at the moment, I didn't even think to mention it.  Always convert .odt to Word documents, otherwise it doesn't save the changes properly, as you discovered.  It took me forever to figure out what the problem was when I edited that novel.  

1 minute ago, Mrsgnomie said:

This is REALLY good to know…for next time lol. Sorry @Mancunian lol

I'll be adding this to the Anthology 101 FAQs, so hopefully it won't be an issue in the future.  

I'm probably not the best proofer, which is why I try to avoid doing it all that often, as I usually veer more into editing than just strictly finding typos. But thank you, @Valkyrie I'm glad I can help and certainly glad the reason I am needed is so many of our great authors are participating in this year's anthology! 

I've been a long-time beta reader/editor/proofer/manuscripter/publishing assistant for M.A. Church on all her books for about 10 years now, so it's definitely fun when you can grow that relationship with an author long-term. It helps that we have very similar reading tastes and writing styles, so we mesh well. As an editor I think the most important rule is to explain my edits and style to the author(s) I work with. I use Merriam-webster as my dictionary and CMoS as my style guide because those were the sources the publisher I had (before they ripped me and other authors off to the tune of thousands upon thousands of dollars) used.  I will say the editors I worked with were amazing at explaining the rules to teach me, not just fix the document up to publish.

Modeling that same style of editing, I will explain the first time or two I make an edit in a comment then just continue with the edits tracked in the future so the author can accept/reject based on if they agree or disagree. When it's truly stylistic edits or word choices, I typically just add a comment. I also utilize comments to point out continuity, setting, or character issues such as timeline skips, story inconsistencies, or independent body movements. When I read I "see" the story happening in my head, so I often find those issues on my first read beginning to end, and then I do a second proof from the end of the document to the start, reading backward one paragraph at a time. That's also how I recommend editing to authors who don't have a team; it disrupts the continuity of the plot so you can focus on the words, not the story.