Message Board Topic For 6/4

[Topaz]

I would be a bold faced LIAR if I said that I began reading material on sites like Nifty for their emotional involvement. I won't pretend that it was my original intention for sticking around and see what was new. I can't even say that I don't still surf story sites looking for something....um....hot! Hehehe! I came for the sex! It was passionate, it was graphic, it was a fantasy come true! And if that sex was attached to a great story with great characters...then I was on cloud nine! It was awesome to find such a release for all of those naughty feelings of mine that I had been having for oh so long.

 

Now, over the years, there have been huge leaps and bounds in storytelling online, and there are countless stories and series that are deeply emotional and work on many other levels besides hot buttered sex between teenagers. But the question remains...would these stories still have the same impact if there wasn't that looming cloud of a few detailed sexual encounters in their future? At least the subtle promise of sex?

 

It can be a very thin line between porn and literature sometimes, but with the line being blurred with (what just may be) the vast majority of online gay erotica, there's a question of how much both sides depend on one another to work. Do you think the emotional and heartfelt stories depend heavily on the sexual aspect of the equation? Or is it the focus of hot passionate sex that is left relying heavily on a good story to make it more than 'stroke material'? Would you, personally, read a wealth of online erotica if you were told up front that there would be no sex involved whatsoever? Would you read a collection of the hottest graphically written sexual interludes between amazingly beautiful boys, skipping right to the 'good' part, if there was no detailed story and dialogue surrounding it? Naturally, we all would love to have a perfect balance between the two, but in your opinion, which side is leaning on the other's shoulder for support?

 

Let us know!

[eliotmoore]

I'm afraid that in the sites I read the complexities of narrative and character are largely the garments that adorn the erotic encounters between people. Some definitely have a better cut than others. The precedence hinges on the theme.

 

One of my favorite science fiction novels (long out of print) is called Right of Passage. It is a coming of age story that follows a girl through three or four years of her life. It ends with a sweet erotic scene between her and her young lover in a tent (they are fourteen). That was not the climax of the novel. Simply a significant moment on her journey to maturity and a higher level of social and personal morality. I would teach this novel over and over to young people if I could because it is an alegory for the first and third worlds... really fine and I am amazed it has gone out of print. I digress. While it had an erotic scene in it, its theme hinges upon other things.

 

I think virtually all of the fiction we share on these sites hinges on the significance of the physical and emotional encounter between two (or more) people. Much of it is intended to inform the reader about the sexual impulses of the characters. Exceptions slip into the Archives around the net. I stopped to reflect which story I might select to illistrate that exception and came up blank. Perhaps someone else could suggest one.

 

I have a running argument about pornography versus erotic stories with Martin Rammsonde involving joking references to Jane Austin style romance. I imagine Austin thought she was writing fairly erotic stuff -- a hand well placed, a sigh or fluttered eye, a well turned phrase that spoke sense to those with sensibility (sorry... had to say that). Perhaps the erotic does not have to be graphic to move the heart. I think our modern tastes crave more explicit episodes.

[Graeme]

I think the question is begging the answer. The question asks only about reading erotica. There are a lot of stories around on the internet that are not erotica. I know that Nifty is listed as an "Erotic" archive, but even there, there are many great stories that are not really erotica. They are romances, or coming of age stories, or just dramas.

 

Personally, I write largely gay fiction, but I've never written any erotica. I write about relationships between people and while there may be sex between the characters, I've never described that in the stories and at this point in time, I don't intend to do that in the future.

 

Erotica, by definition, involves sexual tension and probably sexual release. You can write to leave the detail to the readers imagination, and I think that this is often the most effective way because there are only so many ways to describe how part A fits into hole B. Erotica without sexuality isn't erotica. On the other hand, sexuality doesn't have to play much of a part in other genres, such as science fiction, drama, action, horror, mystery. Even with romance, the sexuality doesn't have to become erotica. There are many, many stories that are romances that I wouldn't call erotica.

 

What I find can be tragic is the author that puts in an erotic scene because he/she thinks it is needed for the readers to be happy. I can think of one good historical story I really enjoyed that had a massive sex scene about 3/4 of the way through the story. The author had commented that readers had asked for more sex. I sent him an email saying I disagreed with those readers and I thought that that scene really detracted from the overall story. Up until that point, all sexual encounters were talked about vaguely, and I thought that had been perfect. Enough detail to tell the reader what was happening, and then leaving the rest to the readers imagination.

[Ieshwar]

Ok, even I go to Nifty sometimes to have 'a good feel'! But believe me, those stories are just porn and have nothing to do with literature. I don't agree that there can be very thin line between porn and literature . Let me take a few great stories which I have enjoyed on-line: New Brother by Graeme, One life by R.Keith, Kayden Series by R.Keith and Desert Dropping by Dom Luka. All of us have enjoyed these stories but erotica is the last thing we want in these stories. Saying that these stories depend on sexual aspect is completely false.

 

This reminds me of 'Remebrance' by Jude Devereaux- the novel that had propelled me in the world of romance. The truth is that I took this story just because it contained a few 'hot' scene'. (I was just 15-16!) But when i read the story, God, it was so... touching that I skipped those 'hot' scenes. After reading that story, sex was the last thing on my mind.

 

I think I have said what I wanted.

 

Have a good reading,

Ieshwar

[eliotmoore]

Erotica, by definition, involves sexual tension and probably sexual release. You can write to leave the detail to the readers imagination [omit] What I find can be tragic is the author that puts in an erotic scene because he/she thinks it is needed for the readers to be happy.

 

Oh I'm afraid I am guilty of that It seems to be part of the growing pains I have endured as an apprentice writer.

[JamesSavik]

Erotica is what it is: a story that is primarily about sex. We all know it when we see it and quite frankly, I have very little use for it. With gay erotica in particular, the end is going to be the same: messy, sticky and most probably requiring a shower.

 

Like any good sailor, I know how to find and have sex. The great mystery IMHO is how to find affection and love.

 

One-handed stories as I call them lack depth, dimension and character. They focus on action, not character, plot or emotion. You can read a hundred of them and I doubt you will remember the names or details of more than just a few after a week. You probably won't remember any of them after a month.

 

Don't get me wrong: Sex has its place in a story: where it is appropriate, logical and advances the plot. Sex is a perfectly legitimate element of a story. It is a very poor foundation for a story.

 

Sex must be handled carefully and tastefully. The difference in erotica and a genre story is that in erotica, the author tells you more than you want to know about the various bits and sticky, technical details. In a genre story, the rules of the genre apply [romance, mystery, sci-fi]. There is a plot which is more or less independent from the sex. Plot drives the story. Sex does not.

 

It is entirely possible to write a story with white-hot parts and not be completely gross about it. Let the reader do some of the work. Leave the sticky bits to the readers imagination. It is not necessary to write about the grinding of throbbing, turgid organs. In fact you probably shouldn't. If you allude to a sexual act, it is hotter, more dignified and lets the reader fill in the gaps and blanks with their imagination.

 

Do we rely on sex too much? The good, experienced writers know how to balance their stories, sell their characters and create a plot that you can buy into. Learning how to do that takes time and effort to grow as a writer. Read A LOT and see how it is done both well and poorly.

 

Just off the top of my head, authors that do a very good job of acheiving this sort of balance are Driver 9, Comsie, Dom Luka, Dewey, Graeme and EleCivil.

[eliotmoore]

Do we rely on sex too much? The good, experienced writers know how to balance their stories, sell their characters and create a plot that you can buy into. Learning how to do that takes time and effort to grow as a writer. Read A LOT and see how it is done both well and poorly. jamesavik

 

It is funny the way my comments seem to draw from other forum threads. I read a great deal. I have strong models to to draw from. I started at Nifty looking for things to make my blood stir, found them and used the erotic premise in my own writing which I then posted to Nifty. Maybe that is okay, if you open a dirty magazine to examine the centerfold you rarely remark on the contrived composition and the lack of social context. I seem to always use analogies in these posts -- I will try not to.

 

I read the first comments of this thread asuming the discussion was about writing erotic stories. I guess that speaks to my focus right now. As James remarked, I lost interest in the simple bump and grind after I realized people write about this in a predictable repetative code that focuses on a narrow range of physical parts and their familiar sensations. There is some amusement in seeking out the unique expressions, but you rarely find them.

 

I enjoy the complexities of human conflict. Genuine external and internal conflicts drive a story. They are what make it a story. James concludes Sex has its place in a story: where it is appropriate, logical and advances the plot. Sex is a perfectly legitimate element of a story. It is a very poor foundation for a story. I agree completely.

 

It is encouraging to me that there is not much dissention in this thread. Perhaps the original question has been answered.