Love me for who I am

[BeaStKid]

Love me for who I am

Link

 

I am 21. I am an engineering student. And I am a gay. I am writing this article because I am angry, frustrated and feel unbearably suffocated in my closet. I realised I was gay by the time I was 14. No, I never had any 'bad experience' in my childhood that made me 'turn gay'.

 

No uncle or elder cousin ever molested me. I am gay because I believe I was born gay. God or nature, whatever one believes in, made me what I am. Just as some people are blonde or left-handed, sexual orientation is also a feature that is decided biologically. Modern technology can determine the sexual orientation of a child even before he is born.

 

[...]

 

 

I applaud this young guy's bravery and my heart goes out tom him, for he is in a plight similar to millions of gay men in India. This is a poignant article and is very well written.

 

 

BeaStKid

[Tiff]

This was a really beautiful article. I printed it out so I could read it again.

 

This article represents how a lot of closeted gay men must feel in a lot of the non-gay friendly countries. They're scared and unhappy and are forced to live the unhappily just to please the government, the law, etc. Or moving to another country and leaving their home in order to be free. It's not right.

 

It will take a long time to change becauses change never happens overnight, but articles like these can at least bring us some hope and possibly move is in the right direction.

 

I really feel for the couple that committed suicide; it was the only option for them since they were not allowed to be together. I wish the world was more tolerant and terrible things could be prevented. Sometimes you wonder, what is wrong with the world and people? Why do they stick so stringently to the bible or old ways of thinking? Why not change and move forward- just like was stated in the article concerning slavery, women's rights, etc.

 

Really, these feelings and thoughts and ideas are passed down. No one is born and has these beliefs instilled in them If one person stands up and gathers more people for the cause, then new things can develop, and finally, the future generation will be taught how to love and accept everyone no matter what-regardless of race or sexual orientation. Only than can we, people, truly thrive, whether we live in canada, Europe, the US, Asia, etc.

 

This was such a lengthy speech, but thanks for the article. I really liked it and was moved by it.

[Tristan Thinks]

A wonderfully written article.

 

It's those kind of experiences that I bring up to my friends when they think their lives are so awful. To my mind they should be giving thanks every day for the freedom and acceptance they enjoy, which as many of us know, is something to be fought for and preserved when gained.

 

BK, what kind of reaction is there to that article in India? Is it ignored or does it provoke some kind of debate? What kind of readership does the ToI have - is it more liberal than others? I assume it is published in native languages as well as English. If so, does the article appear in all editions and does it make a difference on how it is received?

[S.L. Lewis]

That my dear is a wonderful article. Thank you for posting the link to this article. Thank you very, very much.

[AFriendlyFace]

Very informative and moving, thanks

 

It does seem like the climate in India and much of the rest of the world is poised for change.

[BeaStKid]

BK, what kind of reaction is there to that article in India? Is it ignored or does it provoke some kind of debate? What kind of readership does the ToI have - is it more liberal than others? I assume it is published in native languages as well as English. If so, does the article appear in all editions and does it make a difference on how it is received?

TOI is one of the leading English newspapers and it has known to take a liberal stand on gay rights. On numerous occasions TOI has taken our side in this. Debates regarding Section 377 and gay rights have been going on for years now. Many news channels that host talk shows/debates have discussed this topic in detail. As Such, the law in question is under a PIL (Public Interest Litigation) that is challenging its validity and asking for this law to be read down.

 

No, TOI is an English newspaper and it doesn't come in any other language. This article was printed in the Soul Curry section, that means that it came out in the National Edition.

 

 

Very informative and moving, thanks

 

It does seem like the climate in India and much of the rest of the world is poised for change.

I certainly hope it is. The PIL is pending in the Delhi High Court for the past 7 years. (It was filed in 2001)

[Tiger]

My heart aches for those who have to suffer like that. Though I am not crying outwardly, inside I am sobbing after reading that. Why does the world have to be so mean to us just for being ourselves? I never asked for it. I know that nobody else did either.

[AFriendlyFace]

Debates regarding Section 377 and gay rights have been going on for years now. Many news channels that host talk shows/debates have discussed this topic in detail. As Such, the law in question is under a PIL (Public Interest Litigation) that is challenging its validity and asking for this law to be read down.

Wow! This really puts things into perspective! Here we are in the states fighting to get equal rights with regard to marriage, and you guys are stuck just fighting to be able to legally have a relationship

 

Why does the world have to be so mean to us just for being ourselves? I never asked for it. I know that nobody else did either.

Asked for what? Asked to be gay or asked to be treated badly for it?

 

I always get a bit defensive when people - especially gay people of course - say something to the effect "I didn't ask to be this way". Makes it sound like it's some sort of a curse. It's a blessing as far as I'm concerned, and if something freaky ever happens and I turn straight I'll ask to be gay again

 

 

-Kevin

[BeaStKid]

Wow! This really puts things into perspective! Here we are in the states fighting to get equal rights with regard to marriage, and you guys are stuck just fighting to be able to legally have a relationship

 

Yes Kevin. This is indeed quite bad. What is more heartening is that this draconian law criminalizes acts of gay sex only, as it has the clause of 'carnal intercourse'.

 

On a lighter note, this law also makes fellatio, oral, anal, condoms illegal (the clause of 'unnatural and not meant for procreation')

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377_o...dian_Penal_Code

[AFriendlyFace]

Yes Kevin. This is indeed quite bad. What is more heartening is that this draconian law criminalizes acts of gay sex only, as it has the clause of 'carnal intercourse'.

 

On a lighter note, this law also makes fellatio, oral, anal, condoms illegal (the clause of 'unnatural and not meant for procreation')

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377_o...dian_Penal_Code

If you don't mind me further prying - and I suppose I ought to just do research on my own - but just how often are these things actually prosecuted and what are the penalties?

 

I'm assuming it's not like in parts of the Middle East where they might execute a gay person if they "caught" them?

 

Would you actually go to prison? Or have to pay a hefty fine? Or would it most likely just be ignored or dropped?

 

What about the gay prince? Can he actually get into any kind of trouble? Or is he sorta out of danger since he's a prince?

 

Sorry to bombard you with questions, Beasty

-Kevin

[BeaStKid]

If you don't mind me further prying - and I suppose I ought to just do research on my own - but just how often are these things actually prosecuted and what are the penalties?

Hmmm... according to my research project on this topic, prosecution is rare, but there have been incidents where gay couples have been taken into custody (Lucknow Case) and where gay rights activists have been taken into custody (again another Lucknow Case).

 

The penalties are usually none in the above cases as the gay rights groups usually intervene. Where they don't, harrassment is the main form of punishment. Also, this law is used primarily to prosecute child sexual abuse (boys), where, if convicted, one may face a sentence of 10 years or so. (As usually, these rapists kill the boy after the act.)

 

I'm assuming it's not like in parts of the Middle East where they might execute a gay person if they "caught" them?

No, India is a democracy and even though laws such as these exist, there is a proper legal system that is followed.

 

Would you actually go to prison? Or have to pay a hefty fine? Or would it most likely just be ignored or dropped?

That depends upon the Police. Usually they use this law for extortion and sexual pleasure. Ignoring and being dropped happens only in the case of high-profile cases as the one you mention below.

 

What about the gay prince? Can he actually get into any kind of trouble? Or is he sorta out of danger since he's a prince?

Exactly. He is a prince. Plus this law is not against homosexuals, per se. This law makes homosexual (read GAY) sex illegal. So, usually the police uses this law for blackmail saying, "Give us XYZ or we'll book you under this section and prove that you have indulged in these acts."

 

Sorry to bombard you with questions, Beasty

-Kevin

No sweat dude... It is always a pleasure answering questions. Given that I ask many.

 

There's a disclaimer, though. All these answers are based on my personal knowledge and hence could be wrong. I would suggest doing research on your own as well in addition to this as well.

 

BeaStKid

[AFriendlyFace]

Also, this law is used primarily to prosecute child sexual abuse (boys), where, if convicted, one may face a sentence of 10 years or so. (As usually, these rapists kill the boy after the act.)

Hmm, I find it a bit odd that they would use this law as a way of prosecuting the miscreant instead of just having standard child molestation, rape, and murder laws. I'm assuming they do have these laws and just sort of "supplement" them with this law as a way of getting an even more serious sentence?

 

No, India is a democracy and even though laws such as these exist, there is a proper legal system that is followed.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make that implication at all. I just thought maybe the penalties - while legal and following the system - might be stronger.

 

That depends upon the Police. Usually they use this law for extortion and sexual pleasure. Ignoring and being dropped happens only in the case of high-profile cases as the one you mention below.

 

So, usually the police uses this law for blackmail saying, "Give us XYZ or we'll book you under this section and prove that you have indulged in these acts."

Well that's pretty crummy

 

No sweat dude... It is always a pleasure answering questions. Given that I ask many.

Thanks

[BeaStKid]

Hmm, I find it a bit odd that they would use this law as a way of prosecuting the miscreant instead of just having standard child molestation, rape, and murder laws. I'm assuming they do have these laws and just sort of "supplement" them with this law as a way of getting an even more serious sentence?

As a matter of fact, no. There are no other laws that are there to prosecute sexual abuse of a male child. And don't even get me started on the female aspect of it. There are so many confusing and contradictory laws for female child abuse that it makes my head swim.

 

Also, this raises another serious issue. Since this law is just for 'carnal intercourse', what about other forms of child sexual abuse???

 

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make that implication at all. I just thought maybe the penalties - while legal and following the system - might be stronger.

Yes, when the case of homosexuality is involved, you are booked for that under the concerned section and the law states an imprisonment for upto 10 years...

 

Well that's pretty crummy

Indeed it is. As if that ain't enough, there's this sort of discrimination in jobs and helathcare sector as well.

 

Thanks

No problem. If anyone wants to know more, I have a 62 page project done on the issues and stigmas associated with Alternative Sexuality (India).

 

Just send me a PM and I'll send you the file.

[AFriendlyFace]

As a matter of fact, no. There are no other laws that are there to prosecute sexual abuse of a male child. And don't even get me started on the female aspect of it. There are so many confusing and contradictory laws for female child abuse that it makes my head swim.

 

Also, this raises another serious issue. Since this law is just for 'carnal intercourse', what about other forms of child sexual abuse???

Oh my gosh! This is shocking!

 

I certainly hope there are activist groups lobbying for the addition of some appropriate child abuse laws!

 

I'm sure having these laws fall under a different section would also be good for the cause of getting the homosexual sex thing struck down. Otherwise for once people can (justifiably) argue that it would pave the way for child molestation if the laws were removed.

 

Yes, when the case of homosexuality is involved, you are booked for that under the concerned section and the law states an imprisonment for upto 10 years...

Does this mean then that the maximum sentence for cases involving child molestation is also only 10 years?

 

No problem. If anyone wants to know more, I have a 62 page project done on the issues and stigmas associated with Alternative Sexuality (India).

 

Just send me a PM and I'll send you the file.

Wow! Sounds like quite an undertaking! I'm proud of you Beasty!

 

I'd love to thumb through it sometime, although to be honest I'm unlikely to just sit down and read the whole thing in a sitting. It's definitely something worth knowing about though!

 

-Kevin

[BeaStKid]

Oh my gosh! This is shocking!

 

I certainly hope there are activist groups lobbying for the addition of some appropriate child abuse laws!

 

I'm sure having these laws fall under a different section would also be good for the cause of getting the homosexual sex thing struck down. Otherwise for once people can (justifiably) argue that it would pave the way for child molestation if the laws were removed.

The main opposition towards not letting Section 377 being struck down is from the Govt. for these very reasons. The reply to this by the main writ petitioner, Naz Foundation, was that there should be a comprehensive child abuse law that covers everything and not just penetrative sex as it has been proven that children can be abused in a lot of ways- physically, emotionally, psychologically, sexually, financially. At the moment, I know of no law that protects the Indian children against these abuses.

 

There is nothing like the Social Services in India and the adoption procedure is tenuous and long. Further, due to another law, the name of which I cannot remember, Gay rights groups are unable to reach out to minors (below 18). Essentially, that law means that a minor cannot take decisions on his own. Therefore, if any gay rights activists even talks to a child in distress or intervenes on the child's behalf, this law can be used to prosecute the activist as he/she 'may' be misleading the 'minor'.

 

:wacko:

 

AIDS rights groups are lobbying with Gay Rights groups in this regard. Some Child rights groups are lobbying to get a comprehensive law as well, so that bodes well for us.

 

 

Does this mean then that the maximum sentence for cases involving child molestation is also only 10 years?

Essentially, yes. But there are other laws and sections that a person can be booked under, many of which I am not aware of. Usually, I read in newspapers that a man gets 7-8 years for raping a child.

 

So, for molestation, the convict gets even less according to this. I think it depends on the extent of the accused's crime. I am not sure about this.

 

Wow! Sounds like quite an undertaking! I'm proud of you Beasty!

 

I'd love to thumb through it sometime, although to be honest I'm unlikely to just sit down and read the whole thing in a sitting. It's definitely something worth knowing about though!

 

-Kevin

Thanks.

 

Yeah, even I cannot read it in one sitting. Too distressing and lots of facts/figures. I'll send it to you if you want.

[Tiger]

Asked for what? Asked to be gay or asked to be treated badly for it?

 

I always get a bit defensive when people - especially gay people of course - say something to the effect "I didn't ask to be this way". Makes it sound like it's some sort of a curse. It's a blessing as far as I'm concerned, and if something freaky ever happens and I turn straight I'll ask to be gay again

 

 

-Kevin

No, it is not a curse as far as I'm concerned, but we didn't ask for it. That's an unchangable fact. How others treat us is a lot of the reason some might think of it as a curse. We are blessed in western society when compared to others. Part of it was the fact that the article really made me feel emotional. I am actually quite sensitive to stuff like that, people struggling when they should not have to do so. It makes me sad, and it makes me angry.

[Ieshwar]

No, it is not a curse as far as I'm concerned, but we didn't ask for it. That's an unchangable fact. How others treat us is a lot of the reason some might think of it as a curse. We are blessed in western society when compared to others. Part of it was the fact that the article really made me feel emotional. I am actually quite sensitive to stuff like that, people struggling when they should not have to do so. It makes me sad, and it makes me angry.

 

If this is your reaction, then, imagine mine when I stumble upon guys whose bf left them to marry a girl due to family pressure. I even met one, by accident. And then, when I wonder if this is what is awaiting me... It leaves me depressed, bitter and very angry. This means I don't only have to spend my whole life looking for love but also try to keep it safe from the world and still live in peace. How f**king simple and cool?

 

All this f**king sucks!!!

 

Depressingly angry Ieshwar

[S.L. Lewis]

If this is your reaction, then, imagine mine when I stumble upon guys whose bf left them to marry a girl due to family pressure. I even met one, by accident. And then, when I wonder if this is what is awaiting me... It leaves me depressed, bitter and very angry. This means I don't only have to spend my whole life looking for love but also try to keep it safe from the world and still live in peace. How f**king simple and cool?

 

All this f**king sucks!!!

 

Depressingly angry Ieshwar

 

 

Poor baby.

[AFriendlyFace]

Essentially, yes. But there are other laws and sections that a person can be booked under, many of which I am not aware of. Usually, I read in newspapers that a man gets 7-8 years for raping a child.

 

My gosh! That doesn't seem like long enough

 

Yeah, even I cannot read it in one sitting. Too distressing and lots of facts/figures. I'll send it to you if you want.

Oh yes, please do if it's not too much trouble

 

No, it is not a curse as far as I'm concerned, but we didn't ask for it. That's an unchangable fact. How others treat us is a lot of the reason some might think of it as a curse. We are blessed in western society when compared to others. Part of it was the fact that the article really made me feel emotional. I am actually quite sensitive to stuff like that, people struggling when they should not have to do so. It makes me sad, and it makes me angry.

sorry if I came off as overly defensive.

 

If this is your reaction, then, imagine mine when I stumble upon guys whose bf left them to marry a girl due to family pressure. I even met one, by accident. And then, when I wonder if this is what is awaiting me... It leaves me depressed, bitter and very angry. This means I don't only have to spend my whole life looking for love but also try to keep it safe from the world and still live in peace. How f**king simple and cool?

 

All this f**king sucks!!!

 

Depressingly angry Ieshwar

 

Oh my

 

I'm so sorry Ieshwar. It definitely sucks! I sincerely and deeply hope that as time goes by the laws and climate will change for the better and/or you'll move to a more accepting place. I know it must be really hard in the meantime though and I'm so sorry. If there was only something I could do to make things better for you.

 

 

Take care,

Kevin

[old bob]

I'm so sorry Ieshwar. It definitely sucks! I sincerely and deeply hope that as time goes by the laws and climate will change for the better and/or you'll move to a more accepting place.

Hey Ieshwar,

Any chance to leave to Europa ?

We have a lot of people from Mauritius working here in Switzerland

Old Bob (ready to help if needed)

[Ieshwar]

Hey Ieshwar,

Any chance to leave to Europa ?

We have a lot of people from Mauritius working here in Switzerland

Old Bob (ready to help if needed)

 

Thanks Bob, Kevin and Rose.

 

I wanted to go out of Mauritius this year. For studies, you know. it would have been perfect. But I fear it might not be possible. Mauritian rupee is very weak compared to foreign currencies such that the fees are too expensive. And my financial situation is at its worst right now. So, it's highly probable i'm lost here itself. I'm rather depressed about all this but I'm slowly accepting that all wishes don't come true...

 

But if you want, you can cross fingers that I dn't go through the same thing as that guy. I may bear broken dreams but a broken heart? I don't think so. Especially not at the hands of such filthy society.

 

Ieshwar

 

P.S Are we not being Off-topic here?

[Graeme]

P.S Are we not being Off-topic here?

Not at all. The topic is "Love me for who I am". That's all you're asking for

 

I've just finished reading through the exchange above and I have to say that I found it very interesting and informative. Many of us (even those of us who have spent their life in the closet) in countries like Australia, the USA, New Zealand, Canada, the UK and most of Europe, don't realise how far things have progressed for us, and how much other countries still need to go for just basic rights. As Kevin said, it really puts things into perspective.

 

Good luck, everyone!

[FrenchCanadian]

I've just finished reading through the exchange above and I have to say that I found it very interesting and informative. Many of us (even those of us who have spent their life in the closet) in countries like Australia, the USA, New Zealand, Canada, the UK and most of Europe, don't realise how far things have progressed for us, and how much other countries still need to go for just basic rights. As Kevin said, it really puts things into perspective.

 

Good luck, everyone!

 

It is indeed a very informative article. It's really a shame that quite many people have got their life miserable because of where they lives. It really put lots of things into a brand new perspective. It puts our problems about being gay in our day-to-day life to a lower level when you see that in some other country they face the same problems and have also to fear much more important problems,

[Tiger]

Not at all. The topic is "Love me for who I am". That's all you're asking for

 

I've just finished reading through the exchange above and I have to say that I found it very interesting and informative. Many of us (even those of us who have spent their life in the closet) in countries like Australia, the USA, New Zealand, Canada, the UK and most of Europe, don't realise how far things have progressed for us, and how much other countries still need to go for just basic rights. As Kevin said, it really puts things into perspective.

 

Good luck, everyone!

My heart aches for people in those countries. That article sparked a lot of emotion in me. I tend to internalize my emotion, but I couldn't hold back when I read that. It was too much. I felt so much empathy for that man. He just wants to be free to love as he is meant to love and receive the love the way he is meant to be loved. Why can't people understand his needs?

[AFriendlyFace]

I wanted to go out of Mauritius this year. For studies, you know. it would have been perfect. But I fear it might not be possible. Mauritian rupee is very weak compared to foreign currencies such that the fees are too expensive. And my financial situation is at its worst right now. So, it's highly probable i'm lost here itself. I'm rather depressed about all this but I'm slowly accepting that all wishes don't come true...

It's good that you're adjusting to your situation, but never give up hope. Even if you can't make it away for your first year of university, I bet there are other things you can do, such as applying for LOTS of scholarships and financial aid, and working and saving up money so that perhaps your 2nd year you'll be able to

 

Hang in there

 

My heart aches for people in those countries. That article sparked a lot of emotion in me. I tend to internalize my emotion, but I couldn't hold back when I read that. It was too much. I felt so much empathy for that man. He just wants to be free to love as he is meant to love and receive the love the way he is meant to be loved. Why can't people understand his needs?

Yes, I agree. I think the best thing that can be done is just what he's doing. He's giving the issue a human face with a personal story. It's easy to sit there and spew hatred and intolerance as long as you don't see the victims are hear their stories, but by being out their and making his story known he makes it much harder for people to be insensitive and casually dismissive. Sympathy and compassion are much better mechanisms for changing people's hearts than anger or combat.

 

 

Just my thoughts,

Take care all

Kevin