Gay Pride Parades

[AFriendlyFace]

Why not, Kev?

....

So why not set some standards for these parades so that straight people see an accurate representation of what we're like?

 

Surely it would help straights to see we're nothing to be afraid of. Right?

The answer to that is simple: it's not about straight people.

 

Also, there is a time and place for everything. There is a time and place to be respectable and well-behaved, and there is a time and place to indulge the wilder aspects of one's personality. IMO, "Pride" is more about the wilder than the well-behaved, and it doesn't really matter WHAT the straight people think about Pride because Pride happens to be about GAY people, NOT straight people.

 

What we need to do then is prove that we arent that amalgamation of senseless lust and moral decay in order to justify not being oppressed. The parades have an effect that is the opposite of that.

I don't know about you, but I'm not out to prove anything.

 

I would like to have something like Silence Day or the Lighting Candles, like we did for AIDS. I prefer Silence Day to Gay Pride. It better conveys the pain of discrimination to the society. I so wish we had it here.

That's actually exactly the point I'm trying to make. Event's like the Day of Silence, and National Coming out Day, etc. ARE more about gay/straight relations and they ARE about being respectable and showing a more positive, 'straight friendly' aspect of the community. 'Pride' as it is traditionally understood is not as focused on this, and in my opinion that's fine.

 

The truth of the matter is, the St. Patrick's Day parade doesn't do much to improve the reputation of the Irish as anything but drunks (and heck they even ban gay Irish groups from marching in that parade, how's that for tolerance!), sexual harassment is fairly rampant at the Puerto Rican and West Indian day parades (which doesn't help the reputation of either group).

 

I've marched in the New York City pride parade (and I wore perfectly reasonable clothes, t-shirt and shorts). There's not much like having one million people cheering you as you march and having every important politician in New York a couple of hundred of feet in front of you (including Hillary). While there are some outlandish parts of the parade with dancing boys and Dykes on Bikes, most of it was pretty boring, like politicians, activists and social groups (like the gay rugby team). I really think the parades do show the breadth and depth of the gay community in New York City (from the crazy to the staid) and in other cities and it's an excuse to sit out in the sun and just have fun. I'll likely be marching again this year, handing out pamphlets to everyone I see trying to remind them of all the important work still to be done. If it weren't for the nerdy boys and girls who started the first gay rights groups in the 50s and the outrageous drag queens and flamboyant boys who taunted and jeered the cops at the Stonewall Inn in 1969, we might not even have progressed as far as we have today. I think we need them both. The flaymboyant boys get people's attention, the nerdy ones are willing to do the grunt work to achieve equality.

Excellent points, for all it's 'infamy' the truth is that Pride parades DO run the gamut from boring and respectable to outlandish and decadent. Just as gay people do. Just as STRAIGHT people do. I'm very much against the notion of altering Pride to suit other's people's sensibilities, especially when those sensibilities ARE reflected in various aspects of the event to begin with. It might sound rude or harsh, but my opinion tends to be if you don't like pride, gay or straight, all you have to do is not go.

 

In all cases, they are there to help show straight people that the GLBT community covers a wide gamut of people. Besides the outlandish, there are also just normal people marching. Melbourne's march had representative from high schools, as well as serving police. PFLAG always has people marching.

 

Focusing on the more extreme displays is normal for those who want to point to something to hold up as 'wrong', but there are too many people attending these things for those items to be the only ones that define what is going on.

Right exactly, and PFLAG is another example of a 'respectable' organization.

 

It's all about what people choose to focus on, but regardless of what people choose to focus on I think they only have the right to make their own decisions about what they want to do and whether or not they want to participate in Pride. I don't think it's anyone else's business to decide that we should conform or be concerned about straight people when straight people, while welcome, are really not the 'point' or 'emphasis' of pride at all.

[JamesSavik]

I don't know why people feel compelled to behave outragously during pride parades- maybe it's because Pride gives people a chance to let their hair down. The fact is that people who never act bizarre pick Pride parades to go freak bezerk.

 

You know that the regular media is going to show the most sensationalistic coverage that they can possibly find. That's just a given. People like Pat Robinson always have cameras there to show middle america what gays are like when they are off their leash.

 

There's a clip that they show over and over on the 700 club of a bunch of drag queen Nuns called Sister Boom-boom and the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgance. Yeah it funny and I can appreciate the irony but it makes Mr & Mrs. Middle America go pale, shut the blinds and cancle their cable.

[NickolasJames8]

Nick, that's how the media is. They focus on scandal. However, there are some aspects in pride parades that are so outlandish that it cannot be shown on TV. I don't understand why some are so damn crude. Giving head in the middle of the street is disgusting. It is not proper. The orientation does not matter. It is WRONG to act like that in public. This is something more private.

 

I 100% agree with you on that. If we want to be seen in a positive light by the media, it's up to us not to give them something negative to cover. I'd like to think that giving a bj in the middle of the street would be illegal, because it's nothing I'd want to see someone else do.

 

 

The answer to that is simple: it's not about straight people.

 

Also, there is a time and place for everything. There is a time and place to be respectable and well-behaved, and there is a time and place to indulge the wilder aspects of one's personality. IMO, "Pride" is more about the wilder than the well-behaved, and it doesn't really matter WHAT the straight people think about Pride because Pride happens to be about GAY people, NOT straight people.

 

 

I don't know about you, but I'm not out to prove anything.

 

But don't you think that the "wild" aspect of such an event fuels the fire of intolerance and gives the media a chance to pigeon hole the entire community as decadent and immoral? And don't you think that it makes life easier for those who want to isolate us and prevent us from adopting kids and getting married?

 

 

That's actually exactly the point I'm trying to make. Event's like the Day of Silence, and National Coming out Day, etc. ARE more about gay/straight relations and they ARE about being respectable and showing a more positive, 'straight friendly' aspect of the community. 'Pride' as it is traditionally understood is not as focused on this, and in my opinion that's fine.

 

I don't see how acting like a nymphomaniac who can't control their urge in public has anything to do with pride. I think that if someone has pride, they would demonstrate that pride by containing themselves and acting normal. Because the media wants to give the impression that we aren't normal, and therefore, it's okay to treat us differently. It's up to us to change that perception.

 

 

It's all about what people choose to focus on, but regardless of what people choose to focus on I think they only have the right to make their own decisions about what they want to do and whether or not they want to participate in Pride. I don't think it's anyone else's business to decide that we should conform or be concerned about straight people when straight people, while welcome, are really not the 'point' or 'emphasis' of pride at all.

 

If I were to organize a pride parade, I'd make it clear that anyone who intended to act like an ass could stay away. This isn't about conforming to straight people and their ideals, it's about common decency, which we should all strive for.

 

I don't know why people feel compelled to behave outragously during pride parades- maybe it's because Pride gives people a chance to let their hair down. The fact is that people who never act bizarre pick Pride parades to go freak bezerk.

 

You know that the regular media is going to show the most sensationalistic coverage that they can possibly find. That's just a given. People like Pat Robinson always have cameras there to show middle america what gays are like when they are off their leash.

 

Exactly! So, knowing that the media is just waiting for something scandalous to go down, why would anyone accomodate them?

[AFriendlyFace]

But don't you think that the "wild" aspect of such an event fuels the fire of intolerance and gives the media a chance to pigeon hole the entire community as decadent and immoral?

Unfortunately in that way I suppose it does, but I think the people who view it that way are 1) making a serious oversight in judgment which a rational person should pick up on and avoid and 2) failing to take into consideration their own 'indiscretions' and general human nature.

 

All I'm saying is that Pride runs that gamut from very respectable to very wild, a rational, unbiased person will see this and make appropriate conclusions. If the person is already biased, then I'm not as concerned about what they think because I think there are far better times than Pride to try to convince them otherwise.

 

A good analogy is that most people wouldn't be eager for a perspective employer to watch them let their hair down and party with friends. Making a decision about someone's potential as a good employee based on this information is unfair and misleading. In that same way making a decision about a gay person's morality and responsibility at a pride parade is unfair and misleading.

 

In all honesty I don't think the traditional, undecided straight world should be 'invited' to pride events (it probably doesn't matter if the allies and homophobes are because they've already made up their minds). It's unfortunate and IS true that they'll probably be there. In that way I would prefer for them to see positive, responsible behaviour, but honestly as I said I'm just less concerned with having them see it in this instance than I would at other times. Besides I really think most reasonable people who aren't already prejudiced will be able to conclude that evaluating people at a big party isn't really the best time.

 

I don't see how acting like a nymphomaniac who can't control their urge in public has anything to do with pride. I think that if someone has pride, they would demonstrate that pride by containing themselves and acting normal.

I definitely agree with this point. I think that to the average gay person 'Pride' has little to do with pride. It's just sort of an excuse to party as a big gay community. Again I would draw parallels to Mardi Gras and St. Paddy's day. All three events are ostensibly about celebrating a particular culture, and all three events have participants primarily from a specific culture, but I don't really think the main objective of the average reveler is really directly related to any sort of 'mission statement' or anything else. It's just a good opportunity for those groups to get together and have fun together and celebrate their commonality and membership in that group, which is of course in itself a kind of celebration of the culture and ideals, but to a much less restricted, focused degree.

 

 

In any case, I'm really not advocating that people go to pride parades and model the worst kind of behaviour. I'm not saying we should purposely thumb our noses at society and give them extra ammo. Indeed, as I said I voted 'other' in that I didn't think the parades were either completely good or bad for us. The only reason I'm adamantly defending them is because so many others seem to be attacking them or trying to 'clean them up' and make them PG. I just don't think that should be done. There is much to find contemptible about such events, but I think gay people are censored more than enough in society as it is, why not allow one weekend a year for gay people to be a little wilder and more out there if they want to? No one is forcing all gay people to do this, and no one, gay or straight, has to participate in or attend the events if they don't want to.

 

I would similarly argue against 'cleaning up' Spring Break, or Vegas, or Amsterdam, or The French Quarter, or...*

 

I'm not saying going to these places and doing the standard, stereotypical things that people associate with them are meritorious, positive ways to live one's life, but I think they should exist as options for people to participate in if they want to, and I'm against trying to turn them all into Disneyland. We're not living in Puritanical times and I for one am very much against returning to them, so let's leave our 'sin centers' in tact for the wayward partier.

 

I firmly believe that decisions of whether or not to partake in these things, with all they have to offer, should be left up to the people themselves with their own morals, ethics and values as a guide, and with the encouragement and direction of their friends and families. So I'm not saying we should all strip down to our underwear, get drunk, and walk down the streets waving dildos, but if any of you want to do that, while I may indeed personally try to dissuade you and while I further agree that such behaviour should indeed be illegal the rest of the year, I will support your right to do this during Pride if you so choose, and I'll further encourage onlookers to view this in the appropriate context.

 

 

Take care all and have a great day

 

-Kevin (who will be going to Pride, will be lightly partying, but will not be taking things to extremes)

*I mean no offense to anyone who lives in Las Vegas, Amsterdam, New Orleans, or a popular Spring Break destination. I'm aware that your cities offer much more than this, and I do not mean to insinuate anything negative by my remarks.

[Ieshwar]

I guess I will be talking about Mauritian Gay March which has recently started and has a few things with which i dnt agree.

 

Each country has its own type of Pride march. You have mentioned march like Mardi Gras and St Patrick\'s Day. But the problem is that we don\'t have these here! We just have Gay March. And we have nothing \"wild\" enough to show that it\'s normal.

 

 

I will support your right to do this during Pride if you so choose, and I\'ll further encourage onlookers to view this in the appropriate context.

 

And wat would be the appropriate context?

 

Take care,

Ieshwar

[Procyon]

I think the whole dildo-waving business is based on how straights view gays.

 

When women have a women's event, do they wave dildos? When Kurds have a national holiday, for their own enjoyment, in a foreign country, just for their own sake -- do they wave dildos? No. Gay people do it because

 

a ) that is what straight people think it's all about, and it has seeped into gay culture that that is what it's all about too

 

b ) they want to provoke straight people (justifiably by all means, but at the same time it's counterproductive)

 

c ) some gays actually enjoy it, the way high school kids enjoy sex jokes and such -- and then these five or ten (immature?) percent of the gay community get to represent the whole community, since that is what'll be covered in media.

 

This is a bit like letting islamist extremists define what muslims are, or letting the catholic church be defined by its cardinals. This happens because we can't control it, but I, as a catholic, wouldn't want my church to be defined by those people.

 

Likewise, if I were gay, I wouldn't want dildo-wavers to define me, no matter how much they would enjoy themselves in the process. As you say, Kevin, it's for gay people, not straights -- and if more than half of the gay community doesn't want to take part, or feels embarrassed about it, I don't think it's a great event for gay people. Then it's not gay-focussed anymore, it's dildo-focussed.

 

And, come to think of it, if there were straight parades where the focus was people waving dildos, I'd feel it was an outrage. I wouldn't want straight people to be defined that way.

[AFriendlyFace]

And wat would be the appropriate context?

Viewing it as a party versus a regular, every day 'slice of life'.

 

Let's assume for a second that we have a 20 or 21 year old straight male, completely stumbling drunk, wearing nothing but I pair of low riding shorts, and hanging all over every reasonably attractive female he meets.

 

Does he have a 'problem'? Is he a lascivious alcoholic?

 

I think this very much depends on what context he's in. If it's a Friday night during his Spring Break and five of his buddies are with him doing the same thing, then while I'm neither condemning nor lauding his behaviour, I'd certainly refrain from saying he had some kind of significant emotional/mental/psychological/social problem.

 

If on the other hand it's a Wednesday morning and he's in an academic or professional environment and behaving as I described above...well that's certainly a lot more troubling and he may indeed have deep, problematic issues. Or at the very least deserves to, and probably will, get into trouble.

 

In that same way if you're a drunk, loud, half-naked gay guy at Pride it doesn't necessarily indicate that in a different environment you couldn't be a completely capable, well-disciplined, polite member of society. An on-looker judging you as a an immoral sociopath would be completely unfair.

 

I think the whole dildo-waving business is based on how straights view gays.

 

When women have a women's event, do they wave dildos? When Kurds have a national holiday, for their own enjoyment, in a foreign country, just for their own sake -- do they wave dildos? No. Gay people do it because

 

a ) that is what straight people think it's all about, and it has seeped into gay culture that that is what it's all about too

 

b ) they want to provoke straight people (justifiably by all means, but at the same time it's counterproductive)

 

c ) some gays actually enjoy it, the way high school kids enjoy sex jokes and such -- and then these five or ten (immature?) percent of the gay community get to represent the whole community, since that is what'll be covered in media.

 

This is a bit like letting islamist extremists define what muslims are, or letting the catholic church be defined by its cardinals. This happens because we can't control it, but I, as a catholic, wouldn't want my church to be defined by those people.

 

Likewise, if I were gay, I wouldn't want dildo-wavers to define me, no matter how much they would enjoy themselves in the process. As you say, Kevin, it's for gay people, not straights -- and if more than half of the gay community doesn't want to take part, or feels embarrassed about it, I don't think it's a great event for gay people. Then it's not gay-focussed anymore, it's dildo-focussed.

 

And, come to think of it, if there were straight parades where the focus was people waving dildos, I'd feel it was an outrage. I wouldn't want straight people to be defined that way.

Those are excellent points, Procyon! I certainly can't disagree with any of them

 

You've got a good point that if the majority of GLBT people are uncomfortable with the events and want to 'clean them up' then indeed that should happen. I would very VERY much argue against doing that simply to please straight people though, especially non-allies (as I said, it's just not their party or their business).

 

Personally speaking, thinking back to the Pride events that I've attended I honestly can't recall a single dildo being waved in the first place. It may indeed have happened and maybe I just didn't notice or don't remember, but I don't think it's pandemic to these affairs in any case.

 

But yeah, in general I think you're dead on with your analysis of why the wilder, 'bad' behaviour might be occurring, and also I'd like to once again point out that while it is there to some extent it's really not by any means a universal feature of these events.

 

 

Have a great day all

Kevin

Edited May 23, 2008 by AFriendlyFace

[Demetz]

I don't know about you, but I'm not out to prove anything.

 

Unfortunately, as a community and as individuals, as non-straight people... we have to prove our right to exist because we don't have the luxury of taking that for granted. While we've made huge strides toward acceptance in this country over the last thirty years, there are significant groups of people, largely comprised of the religious "right" who would just as soon have us all committed to insane asylums. A US Congresswoman described "homosexuals" as a greater threat to this country than terrorists.

 

We do have something to prove, because if we don't, our basic human rights will be swept away. There's more at stake as well, as gay people as a community prove themselves in this country and become not merely tolerated but accepted and even celebrated as valued citizens, it pushes the issues in countries where tolerance (not murdering gay people) isn't even on the table yet.

[JamesSavik]

A US Congresswoman described "homosexuals" as a greater threat to this country than terrorists.

 

I believe that particular bimbo was a member of the Oklahoma state house.

 

Although I have no doubt that there are those in the House and Senate who feel that way, to get to and stay in those august bodies they have to be politically astute enough to know what to say out loud and when to smile and nod.

[glomph]

To be honest, if a Gay Pride parade accurately reflected the makeup of the GLBT community, the straights should be really scared because they'd see that we were as diverse (and plain) as they are. There'd be boring middle age guys wearing tan dockers and light blue polo shirts and pocket protectors.

 

Reminds me of the time I had to detour around a PFLAG parade to go meet a gay IRS agent for lunch.

 

I definitely agree with this point. I think that to the average gay person 'Pride' has little to do with pride.

 

I have a problem with the terminology anyway. Why would someone be proud of their sexual orientation? Isn't it something one is born with?

 

It's sort of like being proud to be an American (as stated on bumper stickers). I can see that if you risked your life to escape a country or worked hard to raise money to leave, or something, and then struggled to learn English and US civics, etc., and maybe then served in the US military for a while, and finally was naturalized a US citizen, well then, of course, you're entitled to be proud to be an American, and congratulations to you, and welcome! But proud to be a citizen just because you were born somewhere?

 

Similarly, I guess if I believed the homosexual "cures" really worked, and someone had gone through all manner of treatments and therapies and wishing and hoping and praying and expense and even learned the secret handshake, and it was all successful, then, OK, I could see how one might be proud to be straight.

 

BTW, for drunk and disorderly celebrations, I've read that St. Patrick's Day in Savannah (of all places) is one of the drunkest and most disorderly.

[AFriendlyFace]

I have a problem with the terminology anyway. Why would someone be proud of their sexual orientation? Isn't it something one is born with?

While I pretty much agree with you, just to clarify my understanding of it, it has more to do with being proud of what you do/did with your orientation than anything else. But I agree it's not really the best term for it. "Pleased" would probably be more suitable than "proud".

 

"I sure am pleased that I'm gay!" makes more sense than, "I sure am proud of myself for having this orientation beyond my control!"

 

 

Perhaps we should just call them "Pleased Parades" instead.

[Ieshwar]

I thought Pride was just a reply to the \"shame\" people thrustd on us. Being homosexual is supposed to be something shameful, something we have to hide. But by showing the Pride, we show that there\'s nothing to be shameful.

 

I know that homosexuality is about sexual orientation, but I always thought of it as who we \"love\". That\'s what I tell my friends. And being in love is something to be proud of. Or of the person we love.

 

Ok, it\'s rather complicated.

 

Take care,

Ieshwar

[GaryK]

While I pretty much agree with you, just to clarify my understanding of it, it has more to do with being proud of what you do/did with your orientation than anything else. But I agree it's not really the best term for it. "Pleased" would probably be more suitable than "proud".

I'm neither pleased or proud that I'm gay. Being gay is something that's beyond my control. If I had a choice I would have chosen to be straight because it would have made life so much easier.

 

I do take pride in who I am as a person. That's something which encompasses far more than my sexuality.

 

It has to do with some of the things I mentioned earlier about defining my morals and sticking to them, behaving ethically, treating others with respect unless I'm given a reason not to, giving back to my community as a whole not just the gay members of the community. Those are the things that make me proud of who I am.

 

My sexuality is such a small part of my overall makeup that to me it seems silly to define myself by said sexuality. I'd much rather participate in a Personal Pride event than a Gay Pride event.

 

I wonder sometimes if my feelings are a generational issue. My peers aren't as obsessed with being gay as some of you younger members are. It's who we are and we're comfortable with it at this point in life. It would be interesting to see how some of the older (let's say above 45) members feel about this.

[JamesSavik]

I'm neither pleased or proud that I'm gay. Being gay is something that's beyond my control. If I had a choice I would have chosen to be straight because it would have made life so much easier.

 

I do take pride in who I am as a person. That's something which encompasses far more than my sexuality.

 

 

By Jove I think he's got it. Vanna, tell GaryInMinami what he's won.

 

"GaryInMiami will recieve this lovely set of feather boa, this personal dungeon set by Ronco, leatherware for all occassions, a gold series gimp mask from Leather Expressions and a years supply of KY jelly in the industrial vat size!"

[GaryK]

By Jove I think he's got it. Vanna, tell GaryInMinami what he's won.

 

"GaryInMiami will recieve this lovely set of feather boa, this personal dungeon set by Ronco, leatherware for all occassions, a gold series gimp mask from Leather Expressions and a years supply of KY jelly in the industrial vat size!"

May I swap the feather boa for a personal dungeon set accessory piece?

[Tiger]

By Jove I think he's got it. Vanna, tell GaryInMinami what he's won.

 

"GaryInMiami will recieve this lovely set of feather boa, this personal dungeon set by Ronco, leatherware for all occassions, a gold series gimp mask from Leather Expressions and a years supply of KY jelly in the industrial vat size!"

There are much better lubricants out there.

 

I don't feel much of a need to be "proud" either. I just accepted it recently. I am also fine with it. It's just a part of who I am. I hope there are things that are much more interesting about me than the fact that I'm gay. I also don't feel the need to act like a total ass hat on the street.

[GaryK]

There are much better lubricants out there.

 

I don't feel much of a need to be "proud" either. I just accepted it recently. I am also fine with it. It's just a part of who I am. I hope there are things that are much more interesting about me than the fact that I'm gay. I also don't feel the need to act like a total ass hat on the street.

There are things much more interesting about you than just being gay, Tim. How else could we spend hours talking on the phone? It would get boring real fast if all we talked about was gay stuff. Astroglide* is what I prefer. I understood what James was getting at so I didn't bother to correct him about anything other than the feather boa. I am not a feather boa kind of guy, LOL.

 

*I would imagine there are still places in the US where it's not possible to buy any other lubricant than what you can get at the local drugstore, which is KY. Some states even have laws prohibiting mail order of certain sex-related items. Therefore you can't order Astroglide online.

[Tiger]

Gary, Astroglide is available a Wal-Mart. I don't have the guts to buy it there though.

 

Back on topic: I'm surprised they don't sell Astroglide on the streets during these pride parades. People are already doing stuff like that. The decadence of pride parades is enough to keep me away. It sends such a bad signal to society about who we really are as a community. If we are to be taken seriously, waving dildos is not the way to do it. We need to present ourselves as human beings with some sense of morality. I do not necessarily mean Christian morality, for their ideas of morality can be somewhat misguided.

[GaryK]

Tim, that's exactly why I prefer to conquer the world one person at a time by showing them I'm just like they are except for the gender of the person I chose to love. If we all did that instead of having freak show parades I suspect we'd be much farther along in terms of acceptance than we are now.

[AFriendlyFace]

I'm neither pleased or proud that I'm gay. Being gay is something that's beyond my control. If I had a choice I would have chosen to be straight because it would have made life so much easier.

Well, I would certainly choose to be gay. If I couldn't be a gay or bisexual guy I'd probably want to be a lesbian. I'm sure it would be okay being straight, and I'd probably still enjoy life, but it's definitely not my first choice.

[Bandage]

I don't feel much of a need to be "proud" either. I just accepted it recently. I am also fine with it. It's just a part of who I am. I hope there are things that are much more interesting about me than the fact that I'm gay. I also don't feel the need to act like a total ass hat on the street.

I hope I can reach that point too one day :wacko:

 

 

Gary, Astroglide is available a Wal-Mart. I don't have the guts to buy it there though.

 

Back on topic: I'm surprised they don't sell Astroglide on the streets during these pride parades. People are already doing stuff like that. The decadence of pride parades is enough to keep me away. It sends such a bad signal to society about who we really are as a community. If we are to be taken seriously, waving dildos is not the way to do it. We need to present ourselves as human beings with some sense of morality. I do not necessarily mean Christian morality, for their ideas of morality can be somewhat misguided.

Meh, I wouldn't dare to either... :wacko:

 

I am kind of curious now though, if the Gay Pride Parade in Belgium (Or whatever it is called) does the same? It's not really in the media here, so I don't have a clue...

 

Well, I would certainly choose to be gay. If I couldn't be a gay or bisexual guy I'd probably want to be a lesbian. I'm sure it would be okay being straight, and I'd probably still enjoy life, but it's definitely not my first choice.

 

Care to explain? If anything, I'd rather be straight... A lot less problems to deal with!

[NickolasJames8]

Gary, Astroglide is available a Wal-Mart. I don't have the guts to buy it there though.

 

Back on topic: I'm surprised they don't sell Astroglide on the streets during these pride parades. People are already doing stuff like that. The decadence of pride parades is enough to keep me away. It sends such a bad signal to society about who we really are as a community. If we are to be taken seriously, waving dildos is not the way to do it. We need to present ourselves as human beings with some sense of morality. I do not necessarily mean Christian morality, for their ideas of morality can be somewhat misguided.

 

Ugh...I know this is going to sound really stupid, but for some reason, I've always thought that Astroglide was something that people did their hair with.

[Tiger]

I hope I can reach that point too one day :wacko:

I still have a long way to go. I will be completely out when I move to a place that is more accepting of our kind. As for you, I thought Belgium was a fairly progressive nation. If that is not the case, you should consider moving to a major city in France or Germany.

 

 

Meh, I wouldn't dare to either... :wacko:

 

I am kind of curious now though, if the Gay Pride Parade in Belgium (Or whatever it is called) does the same? It's not really in the media here, so I don't have a clue...

The only reason I wouldn't dare is because I live in an area that is not quite as progressive as I would like it to be

 

I'm sure that they have a wild party at the pride parades there. It justs seems like that's the way it is everywhere. I think something more tasteful would be better for everyone.

[Bandage]

I still have a long way to go. I will be completely out when I move to a place that is more accepting of our kind. As for you, I thought Belgium was a fairly progressive nation. If that is not the case, you should consider moving to a major city in France or Germany.

 

The only reason I wouldn't dare is because I live in an area that is not quite as progressive as I would like it to be

 

I'm sure that they have a wild party at the pride parades there. It justs seems like that's the way it is everywhere. I think something more tasteful would be better for everyone.

 

I do think I will be accepted, but I live somewhat on the 'country'-side, and people tend to gossip a lot here, and that's what I'm afraid of.. They will remain polite in my face, but when I'm not around... Can't tell, because I won't be there then

 

I do think there lives a gay couple in my street, not that certain, and I REALLY REALLY want to ask my family what they think of that... But I don't dare because they could ask me why I would be so interested in them... *Sigh*

 

And I won't dare because I would totally sink into the ground from embarresment.. :wacko:

 

And now back on topic:

Well, Apearantly it was just a few days ago! Belgian Pride Parade I mean Watched some pics from their site... I didn't see any dildos, but I did see the (half-)naked guys... *Sigh* Of course, there were a lot of ordinary people as well...

I could still be wrong though, because I wasn't really there, and I only saw 200 pics from the 1000+...

Edited May 25, 2008 by Zilar

[Daisy]

I do think I will be accepted, but I live somewhat on the 'country'-side, and people tend to gossip a lot here, and that's what I'm afraid of.. They will remain polite in my face, but when I'm not around... Can't tell, because I won't be there then

 

I do think there lives a gay couple in my street, not that certain, and I REALLY REALLY want to ask my family what they think of that... But I don't dare because they could ask me why I would be so interested in them... *Sigh*

 

And I won't dare because I would totally sink into the ground from embarresment.. :wacko:

 

And now back on topic:

Well, Apearantly it was just a few days ago! Belgian Pride Parade I mean Watched some pics from their site... I didn't see any dildos, but I did see the (half-)naked guys... *Sigh* Of course, there were a lot of ordinary people as well...

I could still be wrong though, because I wasn't really there, and I only saw 200 pics from the 1000+...

 

I don't really think that Pride parades in the uk have the same reputation that you guys are all talking about. I think there is definitly lots of drinking and likely some wild behaviour, but I'm quite surprised at stories of bj's and dildo's. I certainly had not come across that perception, could just be my ignorance or that the parades are not really kind of a big deal politically anymore/ not thrust in people's faces by the media as much. but if you go to manchester's canal street for a night out then you get the drink, the halfnaked people, the draq queens etc all the time, its one amazing and busy street to walk along. I went on the manchesters pride website and from what i can tell they are trying to expand it as much as possible, they have the major parade but they are turning it into a weeklong party with lots more aspects to it. maybe I will go this year now I'm interested from all this talk.

 

I agree with Kevin that they need to be stuck up for. people need to be aware of their own predjudices and intolerance within the gay community as within the straight world. reading some of the comments here has become quite close to that I think. yes gay existence needs to be stood up for, its not something that can be taken for granted, and claiming public space is part of that, and its not good if parts of it are used against gay people by certain groups. but it is their life. thats what I take it people are fighting for, the ability to live their lives in the manner they want to. and don't forget how pride parades first started and the significance of stonewall and all that - its part of how we are here today. I agree I think it was with Gary, that the rest is just convincing people person by person by showing people that you are a person, like them, and gay/bi.

 

Zilar, people will gossip, but they will gossip about anything, every little bit of your life. I suppose thats the battle, overcoming the worry over what other people think, because really what they think doesnt change much in your actual life. there is nothing wrong with being interested in a gay couple on your street, I don't think that people would automatically think, ooo he's asking because he is gay, just that your are pipiqued by the 'queerness of folk', ie. everybody has an interest in whats around them. but surely if your parents had bad opinions of gay folk then they would have been vocal about it in some way - in passing in conversation etc. I used to live in the rural countryside, in my hamlet of 5 houses, one of them were a gay couple, and as far as I could tell they came across no problems in the valley and community. They were invited to all the community parties and events, in fact they ran alot of the community legal/functioning stuff. Sure we talked about them, about their lives in general, where they were from, the eccentric parts to their relationship, but that was the same as with everyone else that lived in the hamlet and around. Everybody got on with them, I didnt think that some of the local farmers etc would have been so easy about it, but they just were - there was no other way they could be, they just go on with their lives.

Goodluck with everything

Celia

Edited May 25, 2008 by Smarties