Pornography

[old bob]

In the topic

[Drewbie]

Some sex in a story is fine , cause there is already on this site, but if it's straight up pornography pwp (plot what plot) like it's just about sex mostly then probably no. There are some sights that has age verifications and don't really work there just up for legal reasons/make the parents happy.

 

Personally I haven't seen his story, so I don't know how much is in it.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Drewbie

[Graeme]

Speaking purely as an individual, and not a moderator, I think most people self-moderate on this topic. That thread that Old Bob refers to is a good example of that -- a member wasn't sure, asked a few questions, and then made the decision not to post the story here. No one told them what to do -- it was their choice after they considered the various options.

 

What is pornography? There's no clear-cut definition. As Mark said in that thread, the line between erotica and pornography is subjective, not objective. There will always be borderline situations and different people will have different opinions on the subject.

 

What I write is a long way from erotica, let alone pornography, so I'm not a good person to try to give opinions on the subject, but that's never stopped me before I see pornography having the generation of a sexual release in its audience as its main purpose. Erotica has as one of its purposes that of telling a story. It can include explicit sexual activity, but that is not the primary purpose (though it is typically a significant part). How much 'story' needs to be there to change something from pornography to erotica is, as has been said before, subjective.

[Genetic_Drift]

I'm trying to work out in my mind what kind of story would require explicit sexual activity. Don't get me wrong, I have few objections to well written, explicit scenes (it's crazy, but I prefer my smut written rather than in images in most cases ), though I've never written anything myself that would go past a stern PG13. This is a good topic, and well worth thinking about. At some point, I want to write things that are more risque than I've attempted so far, for no other reason than I just want to. I don't think I'd be comfortable thinking of my efforts as pornographic however.

 

Interesting. I'm going to think about this.

[Rilbur]

it's crazy, but I prefer my smut written rather than in images in most cases

 

Strangely enough, that's too of us!

 

Maybe that's because the videos out there aren't half as imaginative as the written works (most gay porn is incredibly cliche... and almost always runs in the same way with very minor differences), but I think a larger degree of it is the fact that the written word is more... involved. When you see something, you're wired to recognize "them, not me"... when you're reading, you're free to emphasize to a larger degree with the actors and 'enjoy' the experience a little bit closer.

 

I don't think I'd be comfortable thinking of my efforts as pornographic however.

 

I just can't seem to keep going on my 'pornographic' work. I've got some, it just... never really goes very far. Especially if I try to avoid inserting 'storyline' in it.

[Genetic_Drift]

I just can't seem to keep going on my 'pornographic' work. I've got some, it just... never really goes very far. Especially if I try to avoid inserting 'storyline' in it.

 

Well glad I'm not alone in the preference for written smut. Yay us! (Your explanation makes sense to me.)

 

But don't get me wrong, I've started to write some stuff that I hope turns out to be suitably hot, and they're only scenes in a larger story. So hopefully the story will continue along just fine. But they're not essential to the story. I could have the written word version of a fade-out in a film and still get my point across that my characters have been intimate. I just don't want someone to come along later and say to themselves "this was unnecessary and pornographic". I can't explain how I draw that line, but it's important to me to be on the right side of it.

 

More thinking required.

[Rilbur]

One option is to do the "regular" story, and offer an "X-rated" version. There have been times when I've been tempted to do that with Guardian, but it hasn't really been necessary. Heck, I suspect the scenes in question are better with the sex toned down, or so people have said. (I'm thinking specifically of the rape scene, where several people told me they think the 'toned down' version is better because of the way it focuses more on the emotions Jason is going through as he's being raped).

[Genetic_Drift]

One option is to do the "regular" story, and offer an "X-rated" version. There have been times when I've been tempted to do that with Guardian, but it hasn't really been necessary. Heck, I suspect the scenes in question are better with the sex toned down, or so people have said. (I'm thinking specifically of the rape scene, where several people told me they think the 'toned down' version is better because of the way it focuses more on the emotions Jason is going through as he's being raped).

 

Hmmm, that's good thinking! I'm probably not inclined to write anything with a hard 'x' to it, that's just not my style, but I can still edit certain scenes for comparison. Thanks!

[Mark Arbour]

What are you guys afraid of? You're not even giving the mods here a chance to make a determination, you're just sitting around worrying. Geez. Post it already.

[Genetic_Drift]

What are you guys afraid of? You're not even giving the mods here a chance to make a determination, you're just sitting around worrying. Geez. Post it already.

 

I'm not afraid of anything really. But two things stop me from posting. 1. It's nowhere near done yet. 2. I want to be comfortable with it not being "trashy" when it is done. *laugh*

[Rilbur]

What are you guys afraid of? You're not even giving the mods here a chance to make a determination, you're just sitting around worrying. Geez. Post it already.

 

I'm not 'afraid' of anything. I have two stories posted, with two more chapters coming on one before it's 'caught up' and has to wait for the next CastleRoland posting (whenever that happens). I also have some 'pornographic' work which doesn't go much of anywhere; the one story that did get a real couple of chapters put out is up on Nifty, if you know where to look. Ironically, it was originally intended as a stand-alone short story (emphasis: short) that got more chapters becuase everyone ticked me off because they didn't get that the entire story was a wet dream. (A 'WTF was I dreaming?!' type wet dream inspired by a real life 'WTF?!' dream of my own... then elaborated beyond all recognition)

 

I don't connect the two identities on Nifty, mainly because I hope to make the "Rilbur" name into a 'good' one. So I'm not going to burden it with pure smut... simply because most people (for some insane reason) look down on it.

[NaperVic]

I

[Krista]

Pornography is subjective, but typically the product of Pornography is to entertain on a sexual level before anything else. If a story is "pornographic" in nature then that could cause problems. Just because a story has a lot of sex though, doesn't make it pornographic if there is substance and "story-line" that accepts the sex within it. Throwing it in for the... "smut" factor in my own opinion, not as a moderator... would be bad for the site.

 

But, if a story is violent, sexually expressive, or anything else, GA has warnings, labels, and rules around those in place that is to protect the minors as well as the adults that just don't want to read them. Members should though, think about their works before posting... and do the right disclaimers, labels, and maturity ratings.

 

I do write some sex scenes in my stories, but I don't consider myself a writer of erotica, because that's not my purpose...

[Mark Arbour]

Pornography is subjective, but typically the product of Pornography is to entertain on a sexual level before anything else. If a story is "pornographic" in nature then that could cause problems. Just because a story has a lot of sex though, doesn't make it pornographic if there is substance and "story-line" that accepts the sex within it. Throwing it in for the... "smut" factor in my own opinion, not as a moderator... would be bad for the site.

 

But, if a story is violent, sexually expressive, or anything else, GA has warnings, labels, and rules around those in place that is to protect the minors as well as the adults that just don't want to read them. Members should though, think about their works before posting... and do the right disclaimers, labels, and maturity ratings.

 

I do write some sex scenes in my stories, but I don't consider myself a writer of erotica, because that's not my purpose...

 

Actually, the definition of pornography (from the Wiktionary) is The explicit depiction of sexual subject matter, especially with the sole intention of sexually exciting the viewer. So it is not to entertain on a sexual level before anything else, it is to entertain SOLELY on a sexual level.

 

The difference? Here's how I would see it. A pornographic story would be one with sex scenes only, with no character development or redeeming plot construction. A story with lots of sex linked with character development, or perhaps tied to some sort of plot, would not be. When you think about it that way, the definition of pornography is surprisingly narrow.

[Krista]

Even porn actors attempt to act, so there are other entertainment factors at play Mark.

[shadowgod]

getting away from sites that are not peer reviewed.

 

Oxford English Dictionary defines....

 

pornography, n.

 

1. a. The explicit description or exhibition of sexual subjects or activity in literature, painting, films, etc., in a manner intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic feelings; printed or visual material containing this.

 

point being is pornography is subjective. I dont think anything on this site is posted to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic feelings.

 

When stories are found that appeal to the former rather than the latter they are removed.

 

Regardless of definitions... this is the same question that crops up around here every year or so. Point, we dont host that such stories here, Nifty is a far better venue for anyone looking to waste 5 minutes or looking to post a story that would help someone waste 5 minutes.

 

 

 

[W_L]

getting away from sites that are not peer reviewed.

 

Oxford English Dictionary defines....

 

pornography, n.

 

1. a. The explicit description or exhibition of sexual subjects or activity in literature, painting, films, etc., in a manner intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic feelings; printed or visual material containing this.

 

point being is pornography is subjective. I dont think anything on this site is posted to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic feelings.

 

When stories are found that appeal to the former rather than the latter they are removed.

 

Regardless of definitions... this is the same question that crops up around here every year or so. Point, we dont host that such stories here, Nifty is a far better venue for anyone looking to waste 5 minutes or looking to post a story that would help someone waste 5 minutes.

 

 

 

 

Darn, those 5 minutes were wasted too quickly, now I must read something else to offset my sexual libido.

[shadowgod]

Darn, those 5 minutes were wasted too quickly, now I must read something else to offset my sexual libido.

 

well if your at nifty all you have to do is click down the list... Im sure there is another 5er in store.

 

there is no emotional investment in pornography. Simple as that. That is what this is about yes?

[Conner]

I'm thinking old bob would just like some acknowledgement from the site management for riding in on his white steed and chastising the would be pronographer sending him running for the hills with his porn tale between his legs.

 

I propose that for the next annual GA Author Awards that there be created a special category called, "Best Performance by a GA member in a Censorship role."

 

Bob will certainly get my nomination.

[Mark Arbour]

Even porn actors attempt to act, so there are other entertainment factors at play Mark.

 

I'm missing your point.

[old bob]

I'm thinking old bob would just like some acknowledgement from the site management for riding in on his white steed and chastising the would be pronographer sending him running for the hills with his porn tale between his legs.

I propose that for the next annual GA Author Awards that there be created a special category called, "Best Performance by a GA member in a Censorship role."

Bob will certainly get my nomination.

I could answer Conner with the same humor but on my side I wont become personal as he does. I'm not a Censor and I dont care a damn for being one. IMO, every author can write what he likes here, its just my right and will to read it or not, or at least to give my opinion about his work in the forums. My problem ist strictly a legal one and has nothing to do with censorship : can GA remain open also for minors without formal restrictions or not ? I infer from the lack of answer from Mod that this problem, once acute, isnt it no more. I'm happy for that, and BASTA.

[Krista]

I'm missing your point.

 

 

If Pornography was just about sexual entertainment, directors wouldn't allow these big productions. They wouldn't spoof popular movies, books, television shows, or even politicians either. So Pornography can entertain on more than just one level, it doesn't have to be restricted. That is was makes Pornography subjective.

[Zeoanne]

Sounds like Krista knows what she's talking about! Watched many? HAHAHA!! Just kidding baby doll!! *Runs and Hides*

[corvus]

The difference between a pornographic story and a story with sex is highly subjective, of course, but I would say that a story with a sex scene in every chapter is more pornographic than a story that has a few, extremely explicit scenes. Why? Because usually a story with a sex scene in every chapter is catering to audiences that would like the sex scenes for the sake of sex scenes, whereas a story that has those few, very explicit scenes usually have them as a summit of character or plot. Of course, those are big generalizations, with lots and lots of exceptions.

 

With regards to how "allowable" a story is on GA... that's completely up to the mods, but I think a good way of considering it would be that, even if a story had a plot, the plot shouldn't be in service of the sex scenes. You know -- having fries with ketchup, and not ketchup with fries.

[Former Member]

I have nothing to say.