Mark Arbour Posted December 30, 2009 Author Posted December 30, 2009 Why is HMS Belvidera taking more time to write than the others? I keep thinking it's a writing block, but that's not it, because I pretty much know where I want the story to go. It's actually research. So I bought and read a book on Royal Navy Frigates, one that was way more technical than anything else I've ever read, and that caused some changes to Belvidera's armament. Then I picked up a bio of Sir John Jervis, and that filled in a few spots and created more questions, so I picked up one of the more detailed bios of Nelson (he was in the Med at the same time, and was too much of a "larger than life" figure not to figure prominently) and learned a whole bunch of operational details I didn't know. So Chapter 4 has been re-written some four times now. I want to make sure I've gotten all the changes done before I release it, and that means I'll have to finish up 5 and 6 first. So sorry for the delays, but I think it will be worth it.
Red_A Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Why is HMS Belvidera taking more time to write than the others? I keep thinking it's a writing block, but that's not it, because I pretty much know where I want the story to go. It's actually research. So I bought and read a book on Royal Navy Frigates, one that was way more technical than anything else I've ever read, and that caused some changes to Belvidera's armament. Then I picked up a bio of Sir John Jervis, and that filled in a few spots and created more questions, so I picked up one of the more detailed bios of Nelson (he was in the Med at the same time, and was too much of a "larger than life" figure not to figure prominently) and learned a whole bunch of operational details I didn't know. So Chapter 4 has been re-written some four times now. I want to make sure I've gotten all the changes done before I release it, and that means I'll have to finish up 5 and 6 first. So sorry for the delays, but I think it will be worth it. Of course it will be! As you may have gathered, I was a fan of C. S. Forester (Cecil Louis Troughton Smith) as a kid. When I had some sailing experience in tradational sailing boats, I start on a similar track to you and started reading books and going to the nearby National Maritime Museum at Greenwich. At that time, there were more displays and papers open to the public, and it was like an onion, peeling each layer discovering more and often conflicting facts. It was a beautiful voyage, I hope it will be the same for you?
amBIguoustwo Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 While you're researching, throw in a chapter where the frigate in the doldrums and Granger finds out the vices and virtues of the new ship's boy? You can set that chapter totally in Granger's bedroom. You already know all the technical details for this part of the story!
Tiger Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) While you're researching, throw in a chapter where the frigate in the doldrums and Granger finds out the vices and virtues of the new ship's boy? You can set that chapter totally in Granger's bedroom. You already know all the technical details for this part of the story! That would be extremely naughty. Do you know just how young they are? They can be quite young... The last captain was hanged for that. Edited December 30, 2009 by Tiger
Tiger Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 I figured I'd go ahead an answer. The age limit was raised to 13 as of 1794. Before that the age was 9. Still, it would be improper for Granger to have his way with them all.
Mark Arbour Posted December 31, 2009 Author Posted December 31, 2009 ope to dream of another chapter! ope?
amBIguoustwo Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 For some reason (and I'm too lazy to go back and read), I thought that the new boy was closer to 15. My bad!
Tiger Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 For some reason (and I'm too lazy to go back and read), I thought that the new boy was closer to 15. My bad! He might be. That doesn't mean that George should jump his bones or that he should even be a homo.
sat8997 Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 For some reason (and I'm too lazy to go back and read), I thought that the new boy was closer to 15. My bad! The new character, Brookstone, is 15. He's a midshipman, not a ship's boy. There's a difference.
Tiger Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 The new character, Brookstone, is 15. He's a midshipman, not a ship's boy. There's a difference. That's true. Midshipmen were junior officers. Ship boys were servants.
micky Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 I appreciate the effort Mark is putting into research for the historical setting of this story, but poor Granger! Who knew that he could go this long without getting some!
Tiger Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 I appreciate the effort Mark is putting into research for the historical setting of this story, but poor Granger! Who knew that he could go this long without getting some! He just got some in Chapter 3, twice as I recall.
micky Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 He just got some in Chapter 3, twice as I recall. When I posted earlier today, I was reflecting on how long it had been since Chapter 3 posted. Then I discovered that Four is on the site, although I hadn;t seen it on the home page of GA.
Enric Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 ch4: so, not straight away to Mediterranean... Do I surmise correctly that George actually returns yet once to England, before going to Mediterranean. By the way, I am very fond of mediterranean boys.... 1
Tiger Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 Wow, Travers is back, at least for a short time. It seems that Granger cannot decide who he loves more, John Travers or Francis Calvert. It also looks like there are a few possibilities of lieutenants for him to spend time getting to know in a biblical way.
Mark Arbour Posted January 2, 2010 Author Posted January 2, 2010 Sorry guys. I've been sick today, so didn't check until now.
Tiger Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 Sorry guys. I've been sick today, so didn't check until now. That's not a good way to start the new year. I hope you get to feeling better soon.
Conner Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 Some sweet sorrow in that chapter. I really liked the way you handled Travers and Granger's "re-meeting", Mark! Well done! I've missed Travers. My sense is that he is the more smitten one. Mind you, Calvert is still very fresh in Granger's mind. I take it Robey is still on Travers' ship. It will be Granger's turn to be in the presence of Travers' other lover. I wonder if Travers has been as honest with Robey. Lots to look forward to. Maybe Matt and Cody from the other story need to sit down with Granger, Travers, Calvert and Robey over some grog or rum ration and talk things out.
Mark M Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 ope? ah i suppose thats not actually a word....but in my language it's like "oh, getting jiggy with it?" or "oh, flowers are cool" soo....we just add ope "OpE!! getting jiggy with it" or "Ope, flowers are cool" Some sweet sorrow in that chapter. I really liked the way you handled Travers and Granger's "re-meeting", Mark! Well done! I've missed Travers. My sense is that he is the more smitten one. Mind you, Calvert is still very fresh in Granger's mind. I take it Robey is still on Travers' ship. It will be Granger's turn to be in the presence of Travers' other lover. I wonder if Travers has been as honest with Robey. Lots to look forward to. Maybe Matt and Cody from the other story need to sit down with Granger, Travers, Calvert and Robey over some grog or rum ration and talk things out. A agree! i really liked how this all went, to bad that Calvert Travers Robey and Granger were not all at dinner, that would be very interesting indeed. Oh i do say i hate everyone's first name but Grangers. John is better then Francis though. Such a lame name -.- not impressed it's like Lets f**k.....oh FRANCIS!!! OH FRANCIS!!! i just can't fathom that at all. I get the feeling that before granger is sent to the med something big will happen.....perhaps a prize?? so early? i think her legs could be stretched for a bit, maybe damage HMS-B a little....get her in the action!! anyway Another week till the next chapter we wait!! love it mark! get well. So many people started this year off sick....not cool. Peace 2
ricky Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 An absolutely delightful read. So glad to hear there is more to come. I have in the last few days read from the beginning and am firmly hooked. I have always loved the stories of this genre and have to say that the detail, perfectly proportioned, is delightful. The sexual scenes are not overdone and are in fact tastefully presented. Only one place did it seem like ever male Granger came in contact with was gay and horny but the Caribbean does that to a lad. The guy with one testicle was a bit much for me but entertaining nonetheless. A question I have about Winkler. At first he was a midshipman. He was injured, splinters in the leg. Granger took him home and saw to his healing and needs after he was taken for his pay. Was he brought back in a military capacity or a personal one? I never heard of a rank or where (or if) he sleeps. Save the one time he said he'd sleep outside the door. Does he have to dress in uniform or continue on in civilian dress. If he were to continue as a midshipman then it would seem to me that he would have the captains ear about skuttlebut and we would see more of that. And the lad needs to be caught with his pants down once. Or is he not a young man of apatite. I was a little dismayed that the loss of Michel was not extended to the French chef. After all he was a teacher and mentor when they got to Brentwood. He was quite fond of the little lad. I would think that Granger should have pulled him aside and a tear should have been shed. Did Ranger transfer too? What will happen when the new crew eats the dog? He is competition for the rats and is a fine piece of meat himself. This is a much larger ship and certainly large enough to have a captain's mess and a Galley for the men. It is odd that the captain never visited the men's galley or the officer's mess. They always came to his quarters for meetings and dinner. Perhaps now and then the captain will surprise the cook by sampling the men's cuisine. It would do much for morale, especially if he found the cook to be afoul his duty or ability. Where is the list of new midshipmen? A much larger ship/crew should have a cadre of new gosslings to learn navigation. We have only one and I suspect he will not have to kiss the gunner's daughter. The bigger question I guess is does he play the skin flute too? Lennox - another man injured by splinters. 'Don't know if he will ever regain use because he severed so many tendons' (Paraphrased) with cut tendons he would have little use. It is not stated or shown that he has any deficiency at all. I think it would be good to hear more about the little rascal's loyalty/disability. It seems that Granger has a great deal of charisma like lord Nelson and that instills loyalty among his crew. It will be interesting to see how that is translated to the new crew and how they will show that it. Or are the scars they bear too deep for recovery? At some point I think that adding a line about them not jumping ship because he lined well the pockets of all of his previous crews would be a pertinent point to make. It was stated that them jumping ship was not an issue because of his [Granger's] reputation and finding replacements would be easy. It might be good to knock a presumptuous captain down a notch by those two items being brought to light by a cheeky seaman. The larger the crew the larger the discipline problems and issues. And harder to drive home the point. But it will require a serious skill to not push the men back into feeling like it is all starting over again and that Granger is not just another power hungry slave driver like the last. Keeping in mind that most seaman could not read and write and none of them knew of Granger's conquests except through word of mouth, I am sure that some would think that this change of clothes and cleaning of the ship is fine and dandy when in port but what about when he get's the ship out of view of the admiralty. Calvert - Will he end up in the Mediterranean with Granger AND Travis? This could be a battle that could get them all longer necks if they were not careful. A question about Bertie, does getting his grandfather's ring signify that he is re-inherited? And last but not least, Rear Admiral Wilcox. He was supposed to be recalled according to all sources but have we seen the last of him? Couldn't he just succumb to Malaria? Or perhaps hung for buggery of a ship's sheep? Perhaps he could be recalled home and Calvert could be told to take him back comfortably un-chained but powerless to be drummed out at home. Thus fixing Fox's wagon as well. That would certainly create a void and shift power as another Admiral is sent there to cover down. Perhaps that is where Hood should go. Loving every minute of it. The research and detail of it are incredible. "The most enjoyable passage I have read yet:
Enric Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 A question I have about Winkler. At first he was a midshipman. He was injured, splinters in the leg. Granger took him home and saw to his healing and needs after he was taken for his pay. Was he brought back in a military capacity or a personal one? I never heard of a rank or where (or if) he sleeps. Save the one time he said he'd sleep outside the door. Does he have to dress in uniform or continue on in civilian dress. If he were to continue as a midshipman then it would seem to me that he would have the captains ear about skuttlebut and we would see more of that. Winkler was afaik never a midshipman. He was a ship's boy, and/or a young recruit. However definitely of lower classes, and destined to be a crew member, not officer. The class distinction was very difficult to overcome. Those young volunteers who were of high clases, got then (after some time as shipboy, which could even been nominal service) the appointments to midshipmen. Low-class boys remainen ship's boys and servants, and often were advanced to seaman status when aging. Only rare cases, a servant-class person could make to midshipman rank; and in only rare cases, a seaman could make it to officership, i.e become lieutenant. It's like there was a fast trach to officership for higher-class young men, they being promoted towards officer corps usually via midshipman service. It was not usually open to anyone else than to those who were of educated families.... It is unclear to me whether Winkler is in the payroll of the navy or in George's personal payroll. However, in practical terms, this is not important for now. because, as servant-class crew member, Winkler is anyway quite plausibly posted as George's permanent personal servant. This will not change in the foreseeable future, because george holds a position (actually yet a higher position) where he is entitled to have personal servant. On the other hand, if Winkler technically resigned from the navy and entered into George's personal payroll, the location of his service is for now the very same anyway. I tend to believe (of these two alternatives) that Winkler remains in the navy payroll. If so, his rank is one of a lowly crewmember. Winkler presumably is not, nor has ever been, in middie quarters inhabitant. Nor uniformed as middie. Crewmembers did not have that much of an uniform anyway in those days. Read how they made some clothes to themselves from the distributed fabric. There is no reason to believe that Winkler would have any sort of dress uniform. Officially. (now, if he happens to be a uniform aficionado, he could have devised quite a nice uniform for his...)
ricky Posted January 3, 2010 Posted January 3, 2010 It occurred to me that he was taken to his home. It is unlikely that he would be permitted to hang out in the mansion in sail canvas clothes. So he would have at least one set of clothes. that would put him one step above as far as wardrobe. He attends the captain and sleep is a commodity for a captain. He is always awoken by Winkler. He needs to be closer than crew quarters. perhaps he has a bunk in the galley or captains mess. He get's less sleep than the captain. Granger also has mentioned that he needs to do something nice for him. I think it was just a short brief thought and then he was distracted. But he is the confidant. Discretion is the better part of valor. Any thoughts on any of the rest? Thanks r
Mark Arbour Posted January 3, 2010 Author Posted January 3, 2010 That's not a good way to start the new year. I hope you get to feeling better soon. It wasn't, although great for a diet plan. The bulimic approach. Ugh.
Mark Arbour Posted January 3, 2010 Author Posted January 3, 2010 Some sweet sorrow in that chapter. I really liked the way you handled Travers and Granger's "re-meeting", Mark! Well done! I've missed Travers. My sense is that he is the more smitten one. Mind you, Calvert is still very fresh in Granger's mind. I take it Robey is still on Travers' ship. It will be Granger's turn to be in the presence of Travers' other lover. I wonder if Travers has been as honest with Robey. Lots to look forward to. Maybe Matt and Cody from the other story need to sit down with Granger, Travers, Calvert and Robey over some grog or rum ration and talk things out. Thanks Conner! That would be an interesting meeting...a good time-machine story. I think that Travers and Granger are going to discover that they've grown different as they've grown older, so re-connecting will be harder than they think it will be. ah i suppose thats not actually a word....but in my language it's like "oh, getting jiggy with it?" or "oh, flowers are cool" soo....we just add ope "OpE!! getting jiggy with it" or "Ope, flowers are cool" A agree! i really liked how this all went, to bad that Calvert Travers Robey and Granger were not all at dinner, that would be very interesting indeed. Oh i do say i hate everyone's first name but Grangers. John is better then Francis though. Such a lame name -.- not impressed it's like Lets f**k.....oh FRANCIS!!! OH FRANCIS!!! i just can't fathom that at all. I get the feeling that before granger is sent to the med something big will happen.....perhaps a prize?? so early? i think her legs could be stretched for a bit, maybe damage HMS-B a little....get her in the action!! anyway Another week till the next chapter we wait!! love it mark! get well. So many people started this year off sick....not cool. Peace You have to remember that names in that era were very different. One of England's best admirals was Cuthbert Collingwood. Try saying "Cuthbert" in the height of passion. Francis seems downright erotic compared to that.
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