"1968" Revisited

[methodwriter85]

That's my problem with the story. Yes, I get what Mark is saying about how it was more than just drugs- but still, I just didn't feel like Jeff had gotten to that point. Jason, I could see him giving up, but Jeff just seemed like he could've gotten out of it. Although in retrospect, Jeff's death gives the CAP series levity- you can feel it in the background for the rest of the series. Especially in Be Rad, with the El Dorado and Robbie and Sam looking on. And it makes Frank a compelling minor character because he lost the only brother he really cared about- I love the scene in Bloodlines where he hugs Matt Carrswold.

[nightsky]

Indeed. And welcome to the Dark Side. Oh, and don't forget to bear a grudge or two hundred against Sam, the would-be murderer who chose to sit there and watch Jeff commit suicide. I was tempted to jump into the story, sorta like in that Stephen King short story (hell, I forget the title), and tell him, "What goes around comes around, bud," but not being the author I don't guess I'd be able to assure him of that.

 

 

Well... I guess I single out Jason as more worthy to be offed b/c of his past history AND he was there too.

 

stephen king has far too many stories for me to begin to guess which short story you're talking about, plus I stopped reading any and all SK titles after Tommyknockers. but I must admit that this... EVENT... rings a bit like one of his full length stories... Dark Half? Where the writer goes up to a secluded cabin to kill off the main character from a series, but is then plagued by the voice of that character, therefore driving him slowly insane??

 

 

Never say you weren't warned Mark.

 

 

 

 

[nightsky]

That's my problem with the story. Yes, I get what Mark is saying about how it was more than just drugs- but still, I just didn't feel like Jeff had gotten to that point. Jason, I could see him giving up, but Jeff just seemed like he could've gotten out of it. Although in retrospect, Jeff's death gives the CAP series levity- you can feel it in the background for the rest of the series. Especially in Be Rad, with the El Dorado and Robbie and Sam looking on. And it makes Frank a compelling minor character because he lost the only brother he really cared about- I love the scene in Bloodlines where he hugs Matt Carrswold.

 

 

There are biological reasons why Jeff might've had such a difficult time with the drugs (some of us are predisposed to addiction), and he obviously had a lot of psychological baggage. But...I just didn't see how he went from who he was in CAP to the person he ended up being in 1968.

 

I kind of get the suicide. He became a complete A-hole, but I just didn't get how he went from character with the most integrity to the character with the least.

 

oy! more jumping ahead! I don't know who Robbie and Matt are yet, b/c i'm in the midst of Land Whore. (can't. stop. reading.)

 

Deke just got offed, but I'm not very sad.

 

 

[Adam Phillips]

There are biological reasons why Jeff might've had such a difficult time with the drugs (some of us are predisposed to addiction), and he obviously had a lot of psychological baggage. But...I just didn't see how he went from who he was in CAP to the person he ended up being in 1968.

 

I kind of get the suicide. He became a complete A-hole, but I just didn't get how he went from character with the most integrity to the character with the least.

 

oy! more jumping ahead! I don't know who Robbie and Matt are yet, b/c i'm in the midst of Land Whore. (can't. stop. reading.)

 

Deke just got offed, but I'm not very sad.

 

 

 

 

You will love Robbie, and much later, Matt. Mark manages to make some amends for 1968 farther down the line.

[Mark Arbour]

You will love Robbie, and much later, Matt. Mark manages to make some amends for 1968 farther down the line.

 

I like Brad better. And that's saying something, since I'm not a size queen.

[methodwriter85]

Robbie is controversial- some people love him, like Adam, and some people can't stand him, like Sharon. The only ones who got across-the-board love are Brad, Matt, and Danfield. (It seems like everyone calls him Wade now, so I gotta be divergent.) Anyways, Mark, you know that you love Brad more because baring penis size, surf ability, and socieconomic status, Brad basically IS you as an adolescent. That's what I really love about Be Rad- you recreated 1980 NorCal affluent suburban teen culture, in a way that made us feel like we're there. It's similiar to how Adam Phillips recreated 1990's Dallas affluent suburban teen culture in his story, Cross-Currents. You both recreated those respective cultures to such a minute detail as only somebody who lived through it could. Although you did get beyond your era with Bloodlines....you did a great job at capturing what people in Adam's generation are like, which really impressed me. Matt and his cohorts really did talk and act like the people I've met who are contemporaries with Adam.

Edited April 20, 2010 by methodwriter85

[KJames]

Indeed. And welcome to the Dark Side. Oh, and don't forget to bear a grudge or two hundred against Sam, the would-be murderer who chose to sit there and watch Jeff commit suicide. I was tempted to jump into the story, sorta like in that Stephen King short story (hell, I forget the title), and tell him, "What goes around comes around, bud," but not being the author I don't guess I'd be able to assure him of that.

 

I wouldn't worry overmuch...Sam gets his later on...

[Adam Phillips]

I wouldn't worry overmuch...Sam gets his later on...

 

Yeah. I was actually trying to keep from tossing out a spoiler there for nightsky...

[nightsky]

Yeah. I was actually trying to keep from tossing out a spoiler there for nightsky...

 

Good lookin' out, but while knowing the possible ending relieves some of the need. to. read. right. now. feeling for me, the stories are really about the journey and character development.

 

Which is probably why I was so... befuddled about Jeff's demise. I felt cheated that I didn't get to see HOW he became such a drug addict that he lost everything and everyone who was so important to him. IMO, he was more stable and centered than JP (emotionally at least), so it didn't make sense.

 

I can't wait to get to know Brad, Robbie... etc better. I assume that Brad is Bradley of Janice's affair?

[Tiger]

I think people overlook the obvious. What was happening in the late 60's? The hippie movement was a powerful, and drugs were like candy then. You could all too easily get drugs. I'm sure it was a an escalation from smoking weed to tripping on acid and shrooms to heroin. If anything, the drugs caused him to be unstable. And looks can be deceiving. Maybe he wasn't as all together as one might have thought. Something happened in his family that changed everything, and it made life difficult for Jeff. His father was abusive and an alcoholic. That's not exactly a good start to life. Eventually I may re-read 1968, but it's a difficult choice, because I don't like what happened to Jeff. Still, I agree that Jeff's downward spiral played an important role in JP's development.

[Adam Phillips]

I have some news that will shock all fans of Jeff who hated to see what Mark seemed to do to him in 1968: He's still alive!

 

I know it's impossible to believe, but Tiger figured out that Steven Schluter and Aaron Hayes faked their deaths and are still alive and well, if in their golden years, on some tropical island...and after that bit of sleuthing it was child's play for me to follow his lead and discover that Jeff found out about the ruse and decided to do likewise, and start a new life on that very same island.

 

https://www.gayauthors.org/forums/topic/26343-the-box/page__st__375

 

Mark's done a really good job of getting us to mourn for all these guys (even in advance for Aaron and Steve!--well, sort of), but we got your number, Mark. I mean, you gave it away anyway in one of your comments on my blog where you said you preferred happy endings.

 

Man. I'm so relieved.

 

[KJames]

I have some news that will shock all fans of Jeff who hated to see what Mark seemed to do to him in 1968: He's still alive!

 

I know it's impossible to believe, but Tiger figured out that Steven Schluter and Aaron Hayes faked their deaths and are still alive and well, if in their golden years, on some tropical island...and after that bit of sleuthing it was child's play for me to follow his lead and discover that Jeff found out about the ruse and decided to do likewise, and start a new life on that very same island.

 

http://www.gayauthor...x/page__st__375

 

Mark's done a really good job of getting us to mourn for all these guys (even in advance for Aaron and Steve!--well, sort of), but we got your number, Mark. I mean, you gave it away anyway in one of your comments on my blog where you said you preferred happy endings.

 

Man. I'm so relieved.

 

 

Adam, while I have faith in Mark's ability to work "miracles" as the God of this particular story series, you must have only finished a chapter--or stopped in the middle of one. Jeff's death was no accident, and it was a suicidal overdose. His remains were identified, and verified either through fingerprints or dental records. The letter he left behind was read in one of the stories, also. Don't think I'm against you here, reading of Jeff's death was a 3-day tear jerker for me.

[nightsky]

Adam, while I have faith in Mark's ability to work "miracles" as the God of this particular story series, you must have only finished a chapter--or stopped in the middle of one. Jeff's death was no accident, and it was a suicidal overdose. His remains were identified, and verified either through fingerprints or dental records. The letter he left behind was read in one of the stories, also. Don't think I'm against you here, reading of Jeff's death was a 3-day tear jerker for me.

 

 

 

So far, from what I've noticed... the presence of in Adam's posts = pulling leg/being sarcastic/provoking someone.

 

I'd love it if Jeff were really alive, but I know it is not gonna happen.

 

I've decided that there is no way to avoid spoilers for this series. I refuse to feel guilty for knowing what might be coming down the pike.

 

 

[Adam Phillips]

Adam, while I have faith in Mark's ability to work "miracles" as the God of this particular story series, you must have only finished a chapter--or stopped in the middle of one. Jeff's death was no accident, and it was a suicidal overdose. His remains were identified, and verified either through fingerprints or dental records. The letter he left behind was read in one of the stories, also. Don't think I'm against you here, reading of Jeff's death was a 3-day tear jerker for me.

 

"Miracle"? Nah. No such thing was necessary. Not even close. You have clearly never watched soaps. Suicides can be faked, you know, and the letter he left behind was all a part of the ruse. Only Tonto knew. And she was keeping the secret because she wanted Jeff to get a new start on that tropical island with her son and his man. And "remains"? Remains, schmemains. He wasn't dead, he was just faking it. Did anybody accompany the medical examiner? He was the father of one of Jeff's closest friends in high school. That father-son duo transported the "body." And yeah, those were his dental impressions and fingerprints. He just wasn't dead. Doesn't take no "God," and, to be true to the author's own sentiments, I don't believe there is a God in Cramptonworld.

 

I'm just relieved to know he's still alive and enjoying the tropical life. I feel bad that the rest of the family had to be tricked. Although, really, it kind of serves JP right for not being more relieved than sad that he was dead.

[Adam Phillips]

 

I'd love it if Jeff were really alive, but I know it is not gonna happen.

 

 

Just goes to show you that he's pulled one over on you too.

[nightsky]

Just goes to show you that he's pulled one over on you too.

 

I never would've pegged you as an optimist.

 

 

 

[Adam Phillips]

I never would've pegged you as an optimist.

 

 

 

 

Or a conspiracy theorist either.

 

You gotta watch out for those initial impressions. Hang around a person long enough and they're bound to revise.

[Mark Arbour]

"Miracle"? Nah. No such thing was necessary. Not even close. You have clearly never watched soaps. Suicides can be faked, you know, and the letter he left behind was all a part of the ruse. Only Tonto knew. And she was keeping the secret because she wanted Jeff to get a new start on that tropical island with her son and his man. And "remains"? Remains, schmemains. He wasn't dead, he was just faking it. Did anybody accompany the medical examiner? He was the father of one of Jeff's closest friends in high school. That father-son duo transported the "body." And yeah, those were his dental impressions and fingerprints. He just wasn't dead. Doesn't take no "God," and, to be true to the author's own sentiments, I don't believe there is a God in Cramptonworld.

 

I'm just relieved to know he's still alive and enjoying the tropical life. I feel bad that the rest of the family had to be tricked. Although, really, it kind of serves JP right for not being more relieved than sad that he was dead.

 

This all makes me excited for the day you start turning out some fiction.

 

When is that, by the way?

[Adam Phillips]

This all makes me excited for the day you start turning out some fiction.

 

When is that, by the way?

 

I'm turning out fiction right now.

 

I'll likely have a short story available by summer called Remix. And in it, a miracle really does happen. Or, as Arthur C. Clarke put it, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

[nightsky]

Or a conspiracy theorist either.

 

You gotta watch out for those initial impressions. Hang around a person long enough and they're bound to revise.

 

well, supposedly i'm pretty good with fairly quick diagnoses of people. but that's usually with me asking lots of nosy questions and face to face contact.

 

were that your fantasy to be true, when is the reader going to find out about all this? Where I am (in If it Fits, JP is already 60 yo. Jeff's son has died. Does Jeff have amnesia and he doesn't remember his family?

 

Maybe we're wandering into "i believe in creationism" space here?

[Adam Phillips]

well, supposedly i'm pretty good with fairly quick diagnoses of people. but that's usually with me asking lots of nosy questions and face to face contact.

 

were that your fantasy to be true, when is the reader going to find out about all this? Where I am (in If it Fits, JP is already 60 yo. Jeff's son has died. Does Jeff have amnesia and he doesn't remember his family?

 

Maybe we're wandering into "i believe in creationism" space here?

 

I'd go with your 11:09 pm gut response of last night. Tiger's post gave me yet another opportunity to harass Mark about 1968, and I thought this one was kind of fun.

 

But, you know, that's the kind of crap people do all the time when they read, without the author having to do anything at all. They just add additional details to that world inside their head, details that the author isn't even aware of. After all, once it leaves his word processor and makes its way into our heads, it's not really his world anymore, right? He only has control over what he writes. What he intends is a red herring, and "what he means" is dang slippery. Especially in fiction. You know the whole debate on "authorial intent" from them literary circles.

 

All that being said, I'm just trying to make him miserable. It appears as though a couple of people are working on this project from a couple of different angles. It's what happens when you try to change your writing from "realistic" to "fantasy" within the same series. I mean, c'mon. A straight figure-skater? That was bound to have repercussions. If readers wanted to read some Mercedes Lackey they wouldn't have started on the Cramptonworld series.

 

Damn, I'm having fun.

[nightsky]

I'd go with your 11:09 pm gut response of last night. Tiger's post gave me yet another opportunity to harass Mark about 1968, and I thought this one was kind of fun.

 

I didn't read the post, out of fear of spoilers and being called names.

 

 

But, you know, that's the kind of crap people do all the time when they read, without the author having to do anything at all. They just add additional details to that world inside their head, details that the author isn't even aware of. After all, once it leaves his word processor and makes its way into our heads, it's not really his world anymore, right? He only has control over what he writes. What he intends is a red herring, and "what he means" is dang slippery. Especially in fiction. You know the whole debate on "authorial intent" from them literary circles.

 

I do think it's the author's responsibility to make sure that his intentions are made clear. I think Mark does that via his writing team, no? No one can guarantee that ALL readers will get it, but I would hope most. And you're right. Us readers bring our own junk into our interpretation of the writing/story. This debate thing sounds like one we like to call "ethical communication." Are we responsible for the harm/hurt we inflict if we didn't INTEND to harm or hurt?

 

All that being said, I'm just trying to make him miserable.

Damn, I'm having fun.

 

 

 

And here we are.

 

What's that saying about how we always hurt the ones we love the most?

 

So really, all the trash talking is just an expression of love, right?

 

 

 

[Mark Arbour]

 

And here we are.

 

What's that saying about how we always hurt the ones we love the most?

 

So really, all the trash talking is just an expression of love, right?

 

 

 

 

Yep. That and he likes my really big hands.

[sat8997]

But, you know, that's the kind of crap people do all the time when they read, without the author having to do anything at all. They just add additional details to that world inside their head...

 

Explains the 'JP ordered Jeff's death' conspiracy.

[Adam Phillips]

Explains the 'JP ordered Jeff's death' conspiracy.

 

Well, no. That was "Adam was pissed off by the story and hadn't bothered to re-read, but only rememberered how callously JP had killed before, and then remembered him saying, after the fact of Jeff's death, that he wasn't even all that sad. Whereupon Adam began to hate JP and in his ADD-addled brain disremembered that JP had sent Sam there to kill him."

 

A re-reading of the story...and a polite "quit being a moron" from...uhh, well, I think it was you ...set me right on that one.