All Boys Schooling

[Altimexis]

I think others have said it, but wow, was that chapter disturbing. Frankly, I think the material in italics was way overdone, but the chapter otherwise was well written.

 

The thing I find hard to believe is that so many boys could get away with accumulating in the boys' room without a teacher checking the action out. There is always the assumption that boys congregating in a restroom are up to no good, and they certainly weren't quiet about it. Could this really happen in the States?

[MikeL]

The thing I find hard to believe is that so many boys could get away with accumulating in the boys' room without a teacher checking the action out. There is always the assumption that boys congregating in a restroom are up to no good, and they certainly weren't quiet about it. Could this really happen in the States?

My knowledge of US schools is limited to the coeducational public school I attended and the coeducational private school where my wife taught. I would have to say the scene played out in this chapter is highly unlikely to occur in real life.

[Demetz]

My experience in co-ed public education was that the teachers (invariably female with the exception of one gym coach in elementary school) put more emphasis on educating the girls. Girls were smart, boys were dumb, that was to be the way of things. Girls who achieved well were celebrated, boys who did well (such as myself) were pretty much shrugged at by the teachers and looked at weird by the students. And of course, if boys did well and girls didn't do as well, that was frowned upon. When girls did well and boys did poorly, it was cause for celebration.

 

Frankly I'm still very bitter over that to this day and I believe I would have done much better in an all-boys setting.

 

In fact, I can recall from the bible-classes when I was still going to church, much the same atmosphere arose during the co-ed classes.... when I got older and the classes became sex-separated I remember being a lot happier, even wanting to go and enjoying myself because there was no "you're not as good as the tits next to you" mentality being pushed.

[Nicholas J. Covington]

I Did not read this chapter as it has been removed. However Horrible things do happen in american schools. I know of atleast one case where a boy that was gay was brutilly beaten and raped by members of the high schools football team. It was quite the scandle and the boy later commited suiside. Sadly even in America bad things happen, and we as writers gain nothing only telling pretty stories. The true darkness in life needs to be explored too.

 

I hope you put the chapter back up, as I feel there are things to learn from the darker side of humanity including compassion and understanding. I would add a chapter Warning for the squemish.

 

If you do not feel you can keep it as it is then I hope you can find a way to salvage the story and continue. Either way I will continue to read it!

 

Quote from my Review-

"I must confess that I am not one of the people affected by the chapter in question, as I have only read to chapter 5, But as a writer and a reader of lititure and as is the culture of the times. I hope you don't let the set back detract you form continuing the stories. It is always possible to change the offending passage and contine you may have lost a few readers along the way who have read the offending passage how ever those of us who havent will not be the wiser and the will be able to continue with you along the journey. And while you can't unring a bell you can learn from the experiance and carry on you can also hope that some of those people who may have been shocked and offended may be forgiving and return to read again. And sometimes shock is enouph to make us read on. don't be fooled into thinking you lost all your readers. I will continue to read this story If you continue to write it. I am sure others will as well. "

 

 

[PrivateTim]

I Did not read this chapter as it has been removed. However Horrible things do happen in american schools. I know of atleast one case where a boy that was gay was brutilly beaten and raped by members of the high schools football team. It was quite the scandle and the boy later commited suiside. Sadly even in America bad things happen, and we as writers gain nothing only telling pretty stories. The true darkness in life needs to be explored too.

Jacob, do you have a link to the story about the boy raped by the football team or recall what city/state it was in? I've tried to Google it but can't find it. I did find some hazing/bullying stories, but I don't think they were the one you were referring to. Thanks!

[TetRefine]

Jacob, do you have a link to the story about the boy raped by the football team or recall what city/state it was in? I've tried to Google it but can't find it. I did find some hazing/bullying stories, but I don't think they were the one you were referring to. Thanks!

 

 

Im pretty sure that was in Arizona a couple years ago.

[Tristan]

Speaking as a teacher there are proven advantages and disadvantages for both co-ed and single sex education. Personally however I believe that co-educational school are better as they better prepare students for their 'real life'. The main thing that I got out of my four year uni course was that the main focus of education is to prepare students for life outside of school and a single sex system doesn't do this as effectively as co-ed schools as the community that is created is artificial and doesn't reflect that of the wider community.

 

 

From personal experience boys are a lot nicer when girls are around. Every Wednesday all the girls in my class go to choir and the next 45 minutes are the worst of the week.

 

Also I don't think I could have survived in a single sex school as all my friends are girls

[Tipdin]

Just my 2 cents:

 

Academically, single sex schools makes sense; there seems to be justification for it.

 

I am a gay male that went to a co-ed public school - and was SEVERELY tormented for being gay. The idea of an all male school is both a fantasy and a nightmare.

 

After years of tormenting me, one day a homophobic bully shoved me and I fell backward breaking both of my arms. Everyone knew why he did it but the principle was not willing to deal with the subject; he claimed it was boys being boys....whatever the hell that means.

 

Just imagine: a 14 year old boy with super-charged hormones, unable to use either hand...! In the many decades that have passed, my brother rarely misses a chance to tease me about helping me out...nothing sexual really, but imagine the humiliation, for both of us, when the casts on my arms meant I couldn't wipe my own butt or fumble my own SUPER SENSITIVE ....manhood out of my pants to pee...(And every damn time I had to pee, - IT - wood happen.)

 

I still remember the bully's name and can see his face clearly in my mind. Although as awful as it sounds, I feel somewhat vindicated; after graduating, the kid was snowmobiling and ran into a barbed-wire fence - he was decapitated.

 

Whether co-ed or single-sexed, EVERY school needs to teach better behavior. If parents don't care enough about their own children to teach them how to behave, then give schools what schools need in order for them to turn out well educated, well mannered men and women.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Tipdin

[Riley Jericho]

I came across this link recently - a plug for someone's book on Youtube.

The book is called

and I've not read it or am planning to. But it seems that his experience in a boarding prep school was pretty unpleasant too.

 

Assuming his account is based in truth, it kind of makes you wonder how wide spread abuse can be....

 

Riley

[Nicholas J. Covington]

I am honestly starting to get the sense that home schooling is the best bet. The overwhelming cruelty in this world is really starting to get out of hand.

 

I May be having a bad week, A Crisis Center, client submitted to suicide this week. I alway take it hard when we lose one of our kids. but a 14 y/o boy bullied by his peers, his parents and his church is enough to make me feel very mutinous and it really hurts my faith in god, that he allows people to act like idiots in his name.

 

I have really began to lose all faith in humanity.

[Altimexis]

Now that I've had more time to think about it, The Hanging amounted to rape. It was forced, it was sexual and it was non-consensual. Any episode of forced sex is rape, and that's what this was. It might not have been as violent as the football incident cited earlier in this thread, but it was violent nonetheless, and the psychological toll was incalculable. This isn't something Ryan can simply work through or get over - he will have scars for life from this. Frankly, Jonny should be expelled and possibly face time in the Juvenile justice system. Perhaps those who held Ryan, too. The entire student body should go through sensitivity training and the principal should lose his job. Does that sound too harsh? What do people think the proper punishment should be for a principal upon it coming to light that serial gang rapes had been occurring at the school for years? I fear that this episode will be swept under the rug like all previous ones, and that's definitely not what should happen. This isn't a case of simple hazing!

[Skyline]

My experience in co-ed public education was that the teachers (invariably female with the exception of one gym coach in elementary school) put more emphasis on educating the girls. Girls were smart, boys were dumb, that was to be the way of things. Girls who achieved well were celebrated, boys who did well (such as myself) were pretty much shrugged at by the teachers and looked at weird by the students. And of course, if boys did well and girls didn't do as well, that was frowned upon. When girls did well and boys did poorly, it was cause for celebration.

 

Frankly I'm still very bitter over that to this day and I believe I would have done much better in an all-boys setting.

 

In fact, I can recall from the bible-classes when I was still going to church, much the same atmosphere arose during the co-ed classes.... when I got older and the classes became sex-separated I remember being a lot happier, even wanting to go and enjoying myself because there was no "you're not as good as the tits next to you" mentality being pushed.

 

Its interesting that you should mention this as I had an entirely different experience in school. My discomfort with my schooling came from being I guess what one might call "unusually mature" for my age. I had no interest in the shenanigans of people my age, and often found it difficult to find people whom I could comfortably related to. I feel this would have intensified in an all boys setting, as for the most part it was the males I went to school with who made things unsavoury.

 

In my schooling career I always recieved tons of awknowledgement and accolades for my academic achievements (no alliteration intended ) as did many other boys I was schooled with. There were of course the bright girls in the class, and they recieved their share as well. Long story short I'm thinking that the issue you described could be present in the teaching methodologies/ideologies of educators in your city/country/region, versus an inherent flaw in the co-ed system of education. Conservative and traditionalist ideals (the variety of which are negative in impact) will of course be present everywhere in some form. Selectively hiring and monitoring teachers, along with pro-active involvement of the parents and students in providing feedback to the educational institution would probably be ideal, to reducing such instances. Just my thoughts on your feelings

[Riley Jericho]

What do people think the proper punishment should be for a principal upon it coming to light that serial gang rapes had been occurring at the school for years? I fear that this episode will be swept under the rug like all previous ones, and that's definitely not what should happen. This isn't a case of simple hazing!

 

I just wonder - as part of this discussion about single or mixed gender education - whether it's not actually the type of school you attended, but the quality and presence of adults in that environment. Where I was 10-15 years ago, we had no adult female teachers at all. the best we had was the dinner ladies - and they weren't a spectacular bunch! Many - not all - of the teaching staff were single/middle aged men, most (single or married) had themselves attended a similar type of school in their youth. The point is that, in hindsight, I can see how many brought with them their own gender/personality insecurities and only had their own single gender education experiences to go on. How can you teach children about something you never had yourself?

 

Perhaps as Altimexis suggests, we should put much more of a spotlight on heads and principals to ensure the best, for whatever schooling stream you enter.

 

And it's people like me, who only had the dinner ladies to fantasize about, that really missed out!

Riley

[option]

Maybe the answer is for an education system to be more flexible?

 

We take children, with differences between each & every one of them, yet stick them in the same schools/classes/groups as if theyre all identical.

They are discovering new interests, talents & experiences. They are physically, mentally & emotionally maturing at different rates & ages.

 

Then you mix in the differences between the sexes!

 

 

Some options: (?)

 

single-sex schools, located on the same campus, sharing break/lunch times & some lessons

 

mixed schools, but with some single-sex lessons

[Bumblebee]

even though i went to a co-ed school..... a same sex school would have been worse for me

 

but i found for me homeschooling was what i found best, since i learnt everything i wanted to learn then went back to being the normal antisocial me after my teacher left

[option]

by strange coincidence

http://gawker.com/5627564/middle-school-worthless

 

 

in the UK, some places have middle-school & others dont

[TetRefine]

Ok, this is getting a little off topic. But does anyone else think that homeschooling is the worst thing you do to a kid. I mean, isolating them from reality and different ideas and the real world. Especially socially. Come on people, the world is a scary place and they're gonna have to face it sometime. It's much better they learn to deal with it at a younger age instead of being thrust into it when they're 18 and off to college.

[romachan]

Ok. I am new here, so please bear with me. The post above me was talking about homeschoolers being isolated. In some cases that is very true, especially in small towns where there are not a lot of others who are homeschooling. I have an 8 yr old son who I homeschooled for grades K & 1st. He is now in public school for a variety of reasons. Anyway, he did learn, and I think he learned better at home. However he was not isolated in any way. He attended (and still does) Cub Scouts, church on Sunday--which includes Sunday School, and services-- and Wednesday Night church group stuff. We were also part of a homeschool group that got together for field trips, etc. With the exception of the homeschool group activities, he was with peers his age who attended regular school and was unsupervised by us (not unsupervised by adults just us as his parents).

 

Like you said, it is important to learn to deal with the little things in life so you can learn to handle the big things. Being homeschooled did not stop him from being exposed to those little things and learning to handle them. He is now in public school, and I will say that the transition was not easy, but that is more to do with learning how to do things their way than interacting with others. Homeschooling has a lot to offer, but like all things it has its pros and cons.

 

I worry about my son in school more than I do my daughter. Boys do end up getting the short end of the stick most of the time. The teachers (who usually are female) tend to gravitate more to the girls who are (usually) quieter and listen better. So to the original topic, I think it depends on the individual child. If my son learned better and was happier in a single sex educational setting, in a heartbeat I would pull him out of regular school and have him in a single sex school or class or what-have-you because that would be what was best for him. All other things, like interaction with the opposite sex, can be learned out of school just as easily as in, without the additional pressure of being watched to see who you are associating with.

 

Alright, reading the past posts and my response, I am thinking same sex classes would be a good thing for my 5 yr old daughter. She is very boy crazy! She has several "boyfriends" in class, a boy she has been marrying since she learned to say the word at church, and has just announced that since the boy up the street doesn't have a girlfriend (he is 8) she will be his girlfriend. Someone shoot me now!!!!!

[phana14]

To romachan,

 

Yours was a very sweet and loving post. I believe that your children will be well schooled no matter the venue.

 

And welcome to GA. Because, with an open mind, this place is outstanding!

 

*hugs* Ok, one more, *hug*.

 

 

[TetRefine]

 

 

Alright, reading the past posts and my response, I am thinking same sex classes would be a good thing for my 5 yr old daughter. She is very boy crazy! She has several "boyfriends" in class, a boy she has been marrying since she learned to say the word at church, and has just announced that since the boy up the street doesn't have a girlfriend (he is 8) she will be his girlfriend. Someone shoot me now!!!!!

 

Your gonna have your hands full when she becomes a teenager.

[Guest sasueytuie]

I hate to reveal myself as an irrepressible pervert in my very first post, but when I think about an all-boys boarding school, well, let's just say I have to take a cold shower.

[Bumblebee]

Ok, this is getting a little off topic. But does anyone else think that homeschooling is the worst thing you do to a kid. I mean, isolating them from reality and different ideas and the real world. Especially socially. Come on people, the world is a scary place and they're gonna have to face it sometime. It's much better they learn to deal with it at a younger age instead of being thrust into it when they're 18 and off to college.

 

 

for me getting homeschooled was wonderful!!! and it probably saved my life, i learn a whole years worth of schooling in only 6 weeks, and more importantly i enjoyed it!!!

 

but i was in public school from pre-primary to half way through yr 9, so i learn everything i needed to learn about socialising while in public school

[romachan]

To phana14:

 

Thank you soooo much! That compliment means a lot to me! *hugs* right back at you!

 

and to TetRefine:

 

We all ready have our hands full! I'm thinking convent but that might lead to whole new levels of boy craziness!

[Amelia]

Ok, this is getting a little off topic. But does anyone else think that homeschooling is the worst thing you do to a kid. I mean, isolating them from reality and different ideas and the real world. Especially socially. Come on people, the world is a scary place and they're gonna have to face it sometime. It's much better they learn to deal with it at a younger age instead of being thrust into it when they're 18 and off to college.

 

Most home school kids where I am from still take part in specials (art, music) at school and participate in sports and/or clubs. They are not socially isolated. The parents that isolate their children to the point where they have so few experiences with their peers ARE doing a disservice to their child, but they are probably few and far between. My husband's best friend Jeff was home schooled and he did fantastic in college and has a really successful career now.

 

As far as the point in this thread, for all though who continue to bring up better test scores I'd like to remind you that the majority of same sex schools are private. Students are accepted based on merit. Even charter schools don't accept everybody and can pick and choose who they educate. This, in combination, with a potentially larger pool of great teachers makes the scores incomparable to other schools.

 

edited to add - working at FU also gave me some insight and I could clearly see the groups while working at the Rec Plex and eating on campus.

Some boys have great experiences in same sex schools (same with girls) and I don't think they don't have a place in society. But, I still believe its better for kids to be exposed on a day to day basis with their peers of all genders, walks, and persuasions. They will have to do it in the real world. Honestly, think of debates you have in high school that will give you practice for debates in the boardroom later in life. I think the woman who debated in high school with boys and girls is better prepared to handle herself than the woman who debated against only other girls.

 

And, Cam, no offense, but your experience at Prep seems fantastic - but, its certainly shouldn't be seen as every boy's experience there. My sister's fiance, his 3 best friends, and my brother's best friend all attended Prep and ALL of them say cliques definitely existed, as they did in my high school (F airfield - before the made two of 'em). One of them spent 2 years at prep (freshmen and senior) and 2 years at Trumbull High (sophomore and junior) and he said the cliques, harassment, teasing, etc where comparable at both places. A boys school does not necessarily equal less clique-i-ness.

 

edited to add - working at FU gave me some insight as well. I worked in the RecPlex, dined on campus, and hung out with a fantastic lady in the mailroom - the cliques were visible to me then, as well.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Amelia

[Tiger]

I have a thought or two about single sex schooling. I personally think it might be better if boys and girls are at the same school but in different classrooms. That way, there can be interaction between the genders and so that classes can be tailored to boys and girls as their education needs are not the same. There could also be certain classes like art, music, etc. in which both genders are together while classes like science, language, history, and mathematics are taught separately.