MIllennium

[Canuk]

Okay, I am now starting to worry that Brad and Robbie will not survive this and that just kills me... I still hope they make it through this and can grow old together. Robbie has only been with Carson, but he really is/was at least a little bit in love with him. Brad has been with several and just seemed to be having fun but with Cody, Max, and now Father Tim; seems it is more than just fun. Brad has talked about how Robbie couldn't get involved with someone without having feeling but I think for all his talk Brad is somewhat the same way. This isn't to say he can't just have sex but Brad tends to bond with those he has sex with when it is more than just a f**k...

 

..........

I feel Carson may turn out to be just evil. I can't ever remember Cody going as far as saying that someone had a black soul, not even when he and Brian fell apart. Plus don't forget that Cody said that Dan Church sounded familiar and he wasn't around back during Be Rad or Man in Motion, so any knowledge of him would have to be more recent.

 

 

 

I share your concern. And I can imagine that it will be a horrible ending: Carson's going to be revealed for the snake that he is. For all the reasons you mention Brad will find himself in a spot that he is really enjoying physically, emotionally and physcologically. The dark side is that Robbie is neither part of it nor offers anything more other than history and as the children grow that history will become less relevant to his day-to-day........Brad will realises that the priest offers a mature friendship with benefits, an dthat he can get everything else that he wants elsewhere. messy, messy, messy.

[Tiger]

I think one problem he would have with Father Tim is that he is an atheist and is unwilling/unable to change that. Those kinds of differences aren't likely going to be reconcilable with a man of the cloth. I know Brad is into him, but I just don't see him embracing religion.

[methodwriter85]

:wacko:

 

Really, I miss one day of looking on here and find so many things to comment on...

 

1) I don't think Darius graduating from High School would be that big of a deal for Brad, Robbie, or the rest. I know for me at least going off to college was a much bigger deal than my High School graduation. Plus with this series often very important individuals or events come and go sometimes with very little notice, I still have never gotten over the fact that Tonto's death was never really covered. She was really one of my favorite people for most of the early stories in this series. I realize that Mark cannot cover everything that each of us believes is important so we have to give him the benefit of doing what he believes will move the story along.

You do have a point, as I told Mark. I just think that Brad's aging issues colliding with his eldest son leaving for college created a nice sort of dramatic tension.

 

I've calmed down from my insistence. If Mark doesn't have the room for it, he doesn't have the room for it. Besides, we're going to see the graduation deal anyway when Mark gets around to showing Will and JJ's senior year of high school in 2004-2005. (JP is going to be SOOO enraged during the 2004 Election, I can see it.) And it'll be interesting to see how Brad and Robbie deal with becoming emty-nesters in '05.

 

2) I am also suprised by Brad's lack of consideration of the Bi option. I came of age in the late 70's and early 80's and did sleep with a few women, I figured out quickly that it wasn't for me, but knew and still know several men that consider themselves to be Bi. I honestly don't understant people that insist you have to be Gay or Straight. The idea that only one of those choices is permissable is just unacceptable to me. Although, I consider myself to be completely Gay, I don't see why anyone should limit themsleves if they don't want to.

I just think it's weird that despite all the bisexual behavior of the CAP family- no one has ever really considered themselves bi, even Matt, who seems the most sexually experienced with women. I guess he considers himself gay because he leans more towards men, but it is something to think about. No one in the core families- the Cramptons, the Hayes, the Schluters- has ever considered themself bisexual. The lone self-proclaimed bisexual in the story was Lark, who was always portrayed as confused and it seemed to be suggested that Lark was just covering up being gay. I'd love to see an openly bisexual family member at some point, who is forthcoming about liking men and liking women and doesn't really want to label themselves.

 

I do think that might change with this upcoming generation as Will and JJ grow up and meet new friends throughout high school and college- terms like "bisexual", "pansexual", "heteroflexible"- come into popularity during their coming-of-age decade of the 2000's. They'll see normally straight girls kissing other girls at parties, and even occasionally see a straight guy kiss another straight guy. The labels become much less rigid, and I can't wait to see how that gets reflected. (We're already seeing that with how Matt and Wade fool around with women, but it'd be interesting to see guys who don't use a label for themselves at all beyond "flexible".)

 

3) While Russell Crowe has seemingly become very self important and isn't nearly as interesting as he use to be, check out some of his early work in Australian films. Some of his early work is really quite good. Look for " The Sum of Us ", this was the first thing I ever saw him in, " Proof ", " Romper Stomper ", and " The Crossing ". He had a certain light charm in his early work that he lost somewhere along the way, maybe working with Sharon Stone in " The Quick and the Dead " ???

I'll give it a shot at some point when I'm in the mood, but right now I'm not.

 

Keep the chapters coming and the quality high, Mark you are an amazing writer and obviously have a great support staff...

 

David

 

 

 

Thanks! We do try our best.

[Tiger]

I just think it's weird that despite all the bisexual behavior of the CAP family- no one has ever really considered themselves bi, even Matt, who seems the most sexually experienced with women. I guess he considers himself gay because he leans more towards men, but it is something to think about. No one in the core families- the Cramptons, the Hayes, the Schluters- has ever considered themself bisexual. The lone self-proclaimed bisexual in the story was Lark, who was always portrayed as confused and it seemed to be suggested that Lark was just covering up being gay. I'd love to see an openly bisexual family member at some point, who is forthcoming about liking men and liking women and doesn't really want to label themselves.

Well, sleeping with a woman doesn't necessarily make you straight or even bisexual. When looking at JP, for example, he grew up in a generation where (especially upper class people) were expected to at least appear heterosexual. As far as Matt's self-labeling, he goes with what he feels best suits him. He feels gay, so let him be gay. f**k labels. They're for other people's benefits. I could bang a chick if I really had to, but I'm gay! That's how I see myself. What someone else thinks of my sexuality is moot, because I think and feel gay.

 

I wouldn't mind an openly bi character in the CAP series. It's not a bad idea at all. I'm surprised their hasn't been at least one bisexual in the series, especially considering that the author is bisexual.

[methodwriter85]

I wouldn't mind an openly bi character in the CAP series. It's not a bad idea at all. I'm surprised their hasn't been at least one bisexual in the series, especially considering that the author is bisexual.

 

Well, Lark was bisexual, but it always felt like Lark was actually gay and using the bisexual label to hide behind. At least that's how I've always read it, and I feel like that's what Brad thinks.

[Tiger]

Well, Lark was bisexual, but it always felt like Lark was actually gay and using the bisexual label to hide behind. At least that's how I've always read it, and I feel like that's what Brad thinks.

 

That's very possible. Some people do that. However, it's not always the case.

[methodwriter85]

Right. I'm just hoping we see a bisexual who is confident in their bisexuality, and makes it clear that it's not some sort of phase or that they're really hiding being gay, etc etc. Lark really isn't that character.It'd be great to see characters who come out as bi and are very unapologetic about it.

 

I think bisexual people get a lot of crap from both sides- straight people thinking they're just slutty, gay people thinking they're just in a phase before declaring they're gay. I remember an article about a gay sporting group that refused to let bisexual men participate...man, that just seemed sad.

Edited August 2, 2010 by methodwriter85

[Tiger]

Right. I'm just hoping we see a bisexual who is confident in their bisexuality, and makes it clear that it's not some sort of phase or that they're really hiding being gay, etc etc. Lark really isn't that character.It'd be great to see characters who come out as bi and are very unapologetic about it.

 

I think bisexual people get a lot of crap from both sides- straight people thinking they're just slutty, gay people thinking they're just in a phase before declaring they're gay. I remember an article about a gay sporting group that refused to let bisexual men participate...man, that just seemed sad.

 

Actually, some gay people think they're sluts too and sometimes won't date them because of fear that the bi people will leave them for MOTOS. Edited August 2, 2010 by Tiger

[B1ue]

Lark's confusion was that he refused to admit he was bisexual, insisting he was completely heterosexual. Max makes a few comments along those lines in Man in Motion.

 

“What about you? You going to see your boyfriend when we're in Cali? Think he's still with that other guy?”

 

“He wasn't with another guy. He was with a girl. He's bisexual. Well, he won't admit that. For him, I was just a friend that gave him a release, but he's bisexual.”

[methodwriter85]

Okay, you got me there- but still- the only bisexual we have in this story can't even own up to being bi. I'm thinking it would be great to have a character who not only owned up to being bisexual, but really embraced it.

[Caedus]

I'm confused, because Matt labeled himself as Bisexual during Bloodlines. He wasn't using sex with women as a cover either, unlike Wade.

[methodwriter85]

Matt labeled himself bisexual to his teammates, but by the time he had gotten outed and was involved with Wade, he had decided gay fit him better.

[Mark Arbour]

Hey there guys! I've been offline for a couple of days. I love reading your thoughts and theories!

 

I think Matt is beyond the bisexual label. I think Matt is just sexual.

[Canuk]

I admit to agreeing with Tiger re labels and Mark re Matt.

the "bisexual" label has always confused me. If someone uses it about themself, it gives me a some understanding of where they see themselves, however when it is applied by someone to a third person it tends to tell me more about person applying the label more than the person labeled.

[Tiger]

Hey there guys! I've been offline for a couple of days. I love reading your thoughts and theories!

 

I think Matt is beyond the bisexual label. I think Matt is just sexual.

 

It's no wonder that Brad totally wants him.

[Mark Arbour]

I admit to agreeing with Tiger re labels and Mark re Matt.

the "bisexual" label has always confused me. If someone uses it about themself, it gives me a some understanding of where they see themselves, however when it is applied by someone to a third person it tends to tell me more about person applying the label more than the person labeled.

 

That's a really interesting viewpoint. I don't think I've ever pondered the merits of a self-imposed bisexual label as opposed to an anointed one.

[methodwriter85]

Hmm. It'd be interesting to see someone of the core family who self-appoints themselves as bisexual...

 

As for Matt, my guess with him is that he enjoys sex with both men and women, but he's emotionally attracted more to men than he is to women. Which is why I don't see him eventually settling down with a woman, and why Matt does indeed seem to identify as gay. (He called himself bi early in the story, but after the outing and after he got with Wade, he seemed to consider himself gay because he felt that fit him better.) He likes women, but not as much as he likes guys. I wonder if we're going to get someone who's about equal on both parts- likely we'll run into that person when Mark explores JJ and Will's high school/college years, when bisexuality becomes more out in the open. From stories I have heard, it does seem like you were either gay or you were straight back in the day, and you were pressured to conform to either label. It feels like only recently people have really started talking about bisexuality, but even now its representation in the media is pretty lacking, especially when it comes to bisexual males. Bi-phobia is definitely around, and sadly it does come from some lesbians and gays.

 

I did think it was telling that in Brad's mind, 'bisexual' never come up for either JJ or Will- like they've gotta be either gay or straight.

[Canuk]

Hmm. It'd be interesting to see someone of the core family who self-appoints themselves as bisexual...

 

As for Matt, my guess with him is that he enjoys sex with both men and women, but he's emotionally attracted more to men than he is to women. Which is why I don't see him eventually settling down with a woman, and why Matt does indeed seem to identify as gay. (He called himself bi early in the story, but after the outing and after he got with Wade, he seemed to consider himself gay because he felt that fit him better.) He likes women, but not as much as he likes guys. I wonder if we're going to get someone who's about equal on both parts- likely we'll run into that person when Mark explores JJ and Will's high school/college years, when bisexuality becomes more out in the open. From stories I have heard, it does seem like you were either gay or you were straight back in the day, and you were pressured to conform to either label. It feels like only recently people have really started talking about bisexuality, but even now its representation in the media is pretty lacking, especially when it comes to bisexual males. Bi-phobia is definitely around, and sadly it does come from some lesbians and gays.

 

I did think it was telling that in Brad's mind, 'bisexual' never come up for either JJ or Will- like they've gotta be either gay or straight.

 

I think you have hit the proverbial nail; re Matt, and it also explains why so many teenagers and 20's consider themselves bi - physically they enjoy sex with all and sundry. as they get older they realise other things make one sex more attractive that the other. Of course, some are attracted by the person and not their sex.....

It is interesting to speak of people of JJ's generation (ie my own two sons); "gay" is like "sick", the former has no reference to sexuality the latter no reference to health. Given both my boys went to all-male boarding schools where you'd expect homophobia to be rife, the school made sure it was a non-event. It may be the same for JJ & Will - if so Mark , would have to find some way of juicing their stories up!!

[methodwriter85]

I think you have hit the proverbial nail; re Matt, and it also explains why so many teenagers and 20's consider themselves bi - physically they enjoy sex with all and sundry. as they get older they realise other things make one sex more attractive that the other. Of course, some are attracted by the person and not their sex.....

It is interesting to speak of people of JJ's generation (ie my own two sons); "gay" is like "sick", the former has no reference to sexuality the latter no reference to health. Given both my boys went to all-male boarding schools where you'd expect homophobia to be rife, the school made sure it was a non-event. It may be the same for JJ & Will - if so Mark , would have to find some way of juicing their stories up!!

 

Well, some people keep the bi label for themselves...but it all really does feel flexible.

 

If memory serves, I remember "gay" as in "lame" becoming popular at just about this time in CAP-world, which likely means it will be in Will and JJ's vernacular. Sick becomes popular later, like around '04-'05.

 

I did some research with a real-life kid who goes to Malibu High, which is where Will and JJ are attending, and they said that being gay was pretty much a non-event. You might get teased some, but mostly if someone has a problem with you being gay they'll just ignore you. And a guy can be openly gay at the school and still be popular if he's cool enough. There's also a GSA there as well. So since it looks strongly like Will is going to be gay, he should have a relatively easy time being gay, as opposed to Matt, Brad, and especially JP's experiences.

 

Mark's never really done a story where the protagonist didn't have at least some coming-out drama, which should be interesting for him. It makes sense for Mark because he came of age where being gay wasn't accepted at all, but how will he write stories about a generation of gay men who grew up with gay civil unions and gay marriage as an option by the time they were teenagers, and were coming out at ages like 13 or 14?

 

But I'm sure he'll come up with other kinds of drama- after all, there's something inherently dramatic about coming-of-age, whether you're gay or straight or somewhere in between.

Edited August 3, 2010 by methodwriter85

[Hermetically Sealed]

Well, at least when the story gets to 2010, the protagonists will likely be able to get married (assuming this ruling doesn't get overruled by the higher courts).

[methodwriter85]

As early as 2004, the protagonists could get married in Massachusetts....and let's not forget that Wade is from DC. So if he and Matt are still together by 2010, they could get married as the ruling looks safe.

[Tiger]

Chapter 15 is up.

[Mark Arbour]

Chapter 15 is up.

 

You're always ahead of the curve.

[Tiger]

You're always ahead of the curve.

 

It was only a hunch, so I checked the site itself. I've been known to do that from time to time. I enjoyed the chapter as I always do. So it seems we've cleared up the mystery of Brad and Robbie's sons as to what floats all of their boats. Will and Drew are going to be an interesting couple to say the least. Could it be that Will is going to be the narrator of the next one? He seems like a good candidate.

 

Oh, and Lark pisses me off. How could he do that? If anything he should be apologizing for what he did before. Instead, he's trying to destroy Brad. I hope he dies.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Tiger

[methodwriter85]

I don't think Mark plans on skipping over late 2000 and 2001, so I'm guessing Will isn't going to be the next narrator because Will is 14/15 for 2001. Still just a little too young to narrate- Mark usually likes his narrators to be at least 17. I'm guessing that if/when Mark gets around to 2004-2005, when Will is 18, we'll see a Will story. I think Mark's done a good job of making Will an interesting enough character in this story that I'm interested in following him as a lead when he gets older. And of course, there's JJ- I think a story about him would be awesome. JJ just comes off as a very lively and fun character- he'll be awesome to follow as well, plus the boy' is going to have a ton of issues to deal with...

 

Will and Drew seem cute, but man...I can't see it lasting long. Will's in seventh grade. Drew's 15 and likely in 9th or 10th grade. Only a two-year difference, but man it makes such a big difference at that age...they're on two different levels.

 

But it really works as an adorable first puppy love. Although it's interesting that Mark won't be able to use the first boyfriend/love angle for any future story about Will that he was able to use for JP, Brad, and Matt. It's reflective of how gay kids were coming out at earlier and earlier ages. By the time we see Will as a 17-year old or whatever, he'll be completely comfortable with his sexuality and have very little gay-related angst, for the most part. That's different from what Mark's written with the previous teen protagonist characters...

 

 

Edited August 5, 2010 by methodwriter85