methodwriter85 Posted October 26, 2010 Posted October 26, 2010 The ability of Mark to make a story compelling from Claire's point of view is not in doubt, nor would, I venture to guess, the ability of the CAP reader to 'deal' with is not the question.........I would venture it is more the desire. I must admit, no matter how compelling the story line may be, I would far prefer the stories remain told from the men in the family. It is not just a matter of interest/sex, but I find these stories compelling on a personal level that a female narrator would not provide. Yes, even though it might get us details about Jack, still not worth it..... I'll be honest and say I'm not interested in reading CAP from a female perspective, either. And aside from Claire being female, she's also an emotionally stable, even-keeled character with a stable homelife with a husband she's been with since she was 15. In other words, very nice, but I'm not seeing where the dramatic conflict would come from. She works great though as a stabilizing force for the family, but I can't see her as the protagonist. I think one reason why I never really connected with Marcel as a character was that he was just...I don't know. Boring? Nice guy, but so even-keeled and non-reactive to most stuff thrown at him that I felt made him so dull to read. I'm not saying Mark has to make every protagonist a raging, bipolar mess who bounces from one emotional extreme to another...but I don't know, a good emotional vulnerability works well as a characteristic of a CAP protagonist, and someone who has some flaws that can cause some good dramatic conflict. I have to admit, I like it best when Mark follows the teenager/college kid age. There's something just inherently dramatic about coming-of-age, and it's something all of us can relate to. Which is why I'm really anxious for the story to switch back over to Matt when this is done.
rjo Posted October 26, 2010 Posted October 26, 2010 Matt, Wade or later Will. What about truly evil Brian?
methodwriter85 Posted October 27, 2010 Posted October 27, 2010 (edited) Don't forget JJ. He's way too interesting with so many varying issues for us not to folllow him. He'll make a great lead character. Edited October 27, 2010 by methodwriter85
Mark Arbour Posted October 27, 2010 Author Posted October 27, 2010 Well thank you both very much. I really didn't think CAP would evolve into this, but it really has been a blast to write. As for JP and Brad, well, you'll have some interesting reading in Chapter 40.
rjo Posted October 27, 2010 Posted October 27, 2010 When is it coming Mark? When? Your public is waiting. We were spoiled over the summer. You wrote Millennium faster than any other story. Thanks for that!
centexhairysub Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 Chapter 40 was great!!!! The showdown between JP and Brad was handled masterfully. I do wonder what JP did on his ride that made him change his mind. I have to wonder if this is truly the changing of the guard. I can't wait to see how Brad goes after Omega and how badly he is able to hurt Brian. I can see a chapter down the road with Brian begging JP for help and can't wait to see how that plays out. Keep up the good work and can't wait for the next chapter.
B1ue Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 First, thanks for pointing out the chapter was up, Centex. I think my whoop of joy scared my neighbor. Certainly her cat at least. This was an eye-opening chapter. I'm not sure what I'd do in JP's situation. That his entire family forced the issue is probably the only thing that changed his mind. Not much less would change mine, in a similar situation (and yes, I have some experience with siblings of this stripe). That I'd support Brad over Brian would be a no brainer, but not helping Brian at all...that'd be tough. That'd be real tough.
Mark M Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 That was a great chapter 40! So intense on the Business/personal Drama Front. Not so....not lol! Anyway JP i think has lost his Chair at Head of the Family. Sucks But it was inevitable. Now when will everyone Choose to be at Brad's Table in Malibu rather then JP's In whereever it is..... lol
gjtravel2a Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 First, thanks for pointing out the chapter was up, Centex. I think my whoop of joy scared my neighbor. Certainly her cat at least. This was an eye-opening chapter. I'm not sure what I'd do in JP's situation. That his entire family forced the issue is probably the only thing that changed his mind. Not much less would change mine, in a similar situation (and yes, I have some experience with siblings of this stripe). That I'd support Brad over Brian would be a no brainer, but not helping Brian at all...that'd be tough. That'd be real tough. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I agree it is an excellent and eye-opening chapter and I also agree that siblings can be scary. A question I have is how can one choose Brad over Brian and yet still support Brian in any way at all. In my view, any support is a direct violation of support for Brad. It would be tough, but if tough is not honored, the family would be destroyed. Oh, a word of caution, if you live in CA, don't ever admit to scaring a cat, PETA might be trolling this site and lord knows what trouble CA laws would get you in!
gjtravel2a Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 I do wonder something about Brad's potential buy-out of Marcel. Has he mentioned this to Robbie or does he see this purely as a business transaction. It is positive and I believe to be expected that he expects to be generous with Marcel. Robbie could see it as supportive for it will give them to ability to reinvest in the business instead of dividends; or, Robbie could see it as a threat and more control by Brad as seen from some of the earlier chapter's discussions. Business protocol would say not say anything, but does that fit with their relationships 'new sharing & openness?" Time will tell if Robbie is still in the dark about Brad's business transaction.
Canuk Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 Sorry, can't agree with the treatment of Brian. Yep he is evil, bad, wicked and deserves considerable time in purgatory /hell or where ever he feels least comfortable, but to deprive him of all human comforts and sustenance brings them all down to his level. By all means work out some level of separation from the family and deprivation of all the things he enjoys, but to tip him into the gutter and leave him there is small minded vindictiveness. I would have thought Brad and the rest of the family were bigger than that.
gjtravel2a Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 The feeling I get from your response is almost like Brad et al are the ones that started the mess and helpless Brian is the victim. He has effectively played the victim card tiem and again only to transform it into another opportunity to spew venim and attempt destruction. There has to come a time when that is no longer acceptable. Had Brad and the family rejected Brian at the beginning out of fear or greed, then, they would be judged wanting. Instead, they have let themselves be used again and again and if they did not stand up as they did, they would be as guilty as JP of being an enabler. Brian only wants their help in that it assists him in trying to destroy them. I don't remember this hatred being justified by any overt or covert actions except in Brian's own mind. I personally applaud the family for standing up and trying to break the cycle of violence that Brian has been brought to their lives. I dare say more could be used...
Canuk Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 The feeling I get from your response is almost like Brad et al are the ones that started the mess and helpless Brian is the victim. not the feeling I was trying to express. There is no doubt that Bard et al are the victims of a truly screwed up Brian. The point I was trying to make was that by seeking physical revenge, the family show themselves to be little better than him. I was trying to suggest that by isolating Brian from the family, ensuring he has no ability to do further mischief, but ensuring his physical well-being (a Napoleon-at-StHelena scenario) they would show themselves to be bigger than he is. 1
mmike1969 Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 I can't help but wonder if it's not just the cash JP gave Brian... $5k is NOT a lot of money for this family as Brad keeps at least $2k in his wallet! And honestly, for Brad, he's acting like the Drama Queen the family makes Brian out to be. I mean seriously! What is pocket money for most in this family is NOT what caused Brian to come up with a scheme to destroy Brad/Robbie/Stef... Even Matt said it himself in Bloodlines that JP will NOT allow Brian to starve. Of course, once JP cleared his mind and he promised not to further help Brian, I wonder if he will keep that promise once Omega/Amphion becomes bankrupt in a few months? But what bugs me the most, so much so that I am re-reading CAP from the beginning, is JP's actions towards Brian... Yeah, JP does say he's his half-brother but is there anything else we don't know about him?
Mark Arbour Posted October 29, 2010 Author Posted October 29, 2010 Wow, lots of interesting posts. I can see how this is a tough issue, since I'm sure we've all had relatives like Brian, although perhaps not so evil. I think that it boils down to Brad and JP's different read on the family. JP has almost a Euro-noblesse approach, in that once you're in the family, you're in the family. You may be subject to restrictions and you may not be provided with unlimited wealth, but as a family member, you have a place at the table, so to speak. I am reminded of noble families in France prior to the Revolution who asked the King to send their wild sons to the Bastille to calm them down (the King usually obliged them). Brad seems to view the family as more of a club, such that if you aren't willing to do your part or you break the rules, you're out. I do hope you keep in mind that Brad's threshold for eviction from the family or club seems pretty high to me, based on what Brian's done in the past and currently.
rjo Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 Another great chapter. I am not sure if I blame Brad or think he's going too far. If I remember in Bloodlines Brad flew up with Matt because of Brian actions and the way Brian treated Matt, Brad and Brad's family. Now in the same room we have act two only this time its worse. Brian has now attacked Brad directly and not only that but his lover Stefan too. Why is JP reacting like this it makes no sense. None at all. Why? There is something more. Something hidden. What has JP done? It has got to be more than $5000. This is more than leadership. It has got to be something more. JP almost lost everything, family, home and lover. Everything. Why? Brian is not a dumb person I am sure he could get a job and make a living without the families help. Is Brian blackmailing JP? I was thinking all JP's secrets were out in the open. What is it?
B1ue Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 Going from what Mark's said, JP feels guilty less because of the amount of money he gave Brian than allowing Brian to survive at all. You are absolutely correct that the actual money is pretty much pocket change, and shouldn't have mattered, but in this case even that small amount did matter. Perhaps, in this case, it especially mattered, as Brian was forced to find a way to maintain the lifestyle he'd grown accustomed to by another means, where if JP had been bankrolling him entirely he'd have (possibly) gotten into less mischief. Actually, I don't really believe that, but JP might. Also, JP has to wonder how much of Brian's actions and attitude stems from his bastard parentage, and the way they did not instill responsibility into him properly when he was accepted into the family. That's a couple things JP really had no control over, but one he'll still feel guilty about, even if some of that guilt is on behalf of his father. Finally, JP has to see himself in Brian, and in his actions. Not that he should, Brian is acting like a wuss, enabling others in their actions while performing no direct actions himself as far as we've seen (though...how did the initial contacts with Brandon and Carson take place?), something that JP has no problem with. But JP drove someone to suicide over an office. I know the stakes were much higher than that by the time the final act came about, but the argument started over an office. JP has to wonder, if he was a bit less controlled, a bit less responsible, would he have acted in a a manner similar to Brian? 2
JLK9N Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 There's also the point that regardless of JP's 'contribution' to Brian, I'd bet Brian would still have gone after Brad and Robbie and Stef anyway. So in a sense, the 5K guilt is JP's alone. He can't and shouldn't be held responsible for Brian's later actions, which would have happened regardless. I think there is something more about family in JP's mind, heart and soul. Remember JP's recognized father was not his biological one, and yet he was still always 'in the family.' I have to say at the end of this chapter I wondered if JP was going to walk away himself from his family, move back to Claremont and start his work on rebuilding the town. A crazy thought, but it crossed my mind.
rjo Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Would JP go back to Ohio? He's been in CA for over thirty years. I would find that really sad. He could resign from Stafford a job I believe he loves. I believe the family now have a difficult situation to deal with. Where does JP fit in? A fallen leader? That too would be sad. I am not sure maybe from a czar to a president with a congress to deal with. Will this break Stefan and him up? Another sad thing. The thought of them not growing old together is also sad. The other thing is how will Robbie react to Brad's purchase part of his company. I am not sure how much that would be. I think He would own more that Robbie does. That could be a problem.
Hoskins Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 JP as fallen leader? The only person obtuse enough to treat JP that way is Brad, because he sometimes can't see past his own alpha dog issues. I don't think Claire, Stefan or anyone else would put up with anyone treating JP like that, which is what would have to happen. Brad could find himself on the outs more than JP, I'd think.
Mark Arbour Posted October 31, 2010 Author Posted October 31, 2010 JP as fallen leader? The only person obtuse enough to treat JP that way is Brad, because he sometimes can't see past his own alpha dog issues. I don't think Claire, Stefan or anyone else would put up with anyone treating JP like that, which is what would have to happen. Brad could find himself on the outs more than JP, I'd think. Woof.
centexhairysub Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 A couple of things..... I have to believe JP will be head of the family until his death or his decision to abdicate. I do think that Brad will begin to take more leadership but will still in the end defer to JP on most things. I agree that if Brad were to try and force the matter, irregardless of the situation with Brian, that Brad would not win in an out and out power struggle with JP. As mush as Stef loves Brad, I don't think Stef would side with anyone but JP in the final analysis. While I do think that Brad is completely within his rights and honestly should be going after Brian for what he has done, Brad can become so focused on winning and coming out on top that he can lose his way. In the past, Brad has sometimes been blind to the damage that he can do in his drive to prove that he is the " Alpha Male ". I do think that Omega and by extension Brian, must be stopped, but an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth can lead to a bunch of blind and toothless people on both sides of the conflict. There are a lot of innocents on both sides that have been hurt or maybe hurt by all of this. Kevin and Commander Carmichael and his family from that side and Robbie, the kids, etc.. from our side. In addition, even Brandon and Carson, while not completely innocent have been badly hurt by this; we never really found out why they joined the other side, were they forced, intimidated, or did they go willingly, we just never found out... At a certain point, the colleteral damage is just too great and you don't destroy both sides just to win... Now having said all of that, I hope that Brad/JP/Stef/ et al will kick Omegas and Brians and everyone's ass... Brad buying into Robbie's company can go either way. I don't think he should do it without talking to Robbie about it. If he does it and says nothing to Robbie beforehand, I think that no matter what, it will cause problems. Speaking from personal experience, not on the scale of anything in this story; I had a " friend " that was having some financial problems with a small company he was part owner. I did not want him to think I was underminning him, but I went to the managing partner and agreed to buy into the company to give them some additional equity. I did it quietly and I thought for the right reasons. I never took an active intrest in the company, but when it came out later, my friend saw it as a betrayal. I would think with everything going on and the fact that they are just getting back together, Brad would need to think twice before going behind Robbie's back, even on something he thinks would help. I have to say that I truly love this series and find the writing and editing of it truly masterful. Only one other story online has ever captured my heart in the way that this series has. While I do love Bridgemont series and enjoy it equally, the CAP series is just something truly special
Mark Arbour Posted October 31, 2010 Author Posted October 31, 2010 You guys have made this so interesting! I've sent Chapter 41 off for posting.
centexhairysub Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 (edited) A very well written chapter but.... I can honestly say that I am very disappointed in Stef and Brad both... I guess that I come from a family background similar to JP's because my reaction is much like his. You may banish a person from the family and stop the support but if they are truly down and on the street, you do what it takes to protect them no matter what they have done. I do believe that what Brian has done is horrible and he and the Carmichaels need to be stopped but JP is right as well. You can destroy them and leave them with almost nothing but in the end, family is family even if you hate them... JP did what he did in giving Brian the money so he would go away and not bother the family any longer. That Brian was stupid enough to take the money and then bite the hand that gave it to him is immaterial. JP could not know what Brian was going to do, JP did what he did to protect the family even if it did backfire in the end. To quote a truly great philospher, " A logical action once undertaken remains logical, no matter what the results " Spock of Vulcan.... Stef and Brad are both acting like petulant children and it may just come back to bite them both... I am glad the deal with Brad buying into Ander/Hayes worked out so well... I trust that Brad and Robbie will weather anything that the world throws at them from now on... Hope the rest of this story is as well written and exciting as the chapters up til now have been... Edited November 1, 2010 by centexhairysub
Tiger Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 I have to say that I disagree with centex here. JP should never have helped that monster. Family or not, Brian has gone way too far. He went too far before now with the way he terrorized Matt. He's downright evil, and he deserves what's coming to him. What he deserves is definitely not the lap of luxury.
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